290 réponses à ce sujet

[Vanilka]

I wouldn't dare say what kind of Inquisitor is the best since different people enjoy playing differently and BioWare have always been clear there's no canon. For me, my canon Warden will always be Mahariel that remains a Warden in the end. For other people it's Cousland that remains at the court. For me, my canon Hawke is a mage that condemns and executes Anders. For my friend it's a warrior that lets Anders live. My favourite Inquisitor is Lavellan and a mage (but I don't romance Solas because I can't imagine why she would fall for him with him actively trying to keep distance from everyone) and I absolutely fell in love with this playthrough. I was so happy getting my character's race and class acknowledged so many times. Josephine greeting her with "Andaran atish'an," at the beginning literally made me go, "(gasp) She bothered to greet her in her native language! I'd never seen any other human do that before!" Hearing Abelas say, "You are not my people," was a strong, shocking moment. I felt justified to argue with Morrigan about who was going to drink from the Well because I thought my Lavellan would see it as the legacy of her people and she couldn't bear the thought of a human taking it all from them. Her religion and everything she knew about their past fell apart in Trespasser. It made the entire playthrough really exciting and personal for me because a lot of it revolved around my Inquisitor's race, culture, religion. If not that, then her class...

 

The thing is, I believe that the game has something for everyone. Take the Winter Palace with all its nobility and the Game which is likely to be an environment more suitable for humans. (Then again, I liked that I was immediately met with disbelief from some people and got a handicap because of my character's race.) Being the Herald of Andraste meant absolutely nothing to my elven Inquisitor. She never believed. She hated people called her that. With a human, you can get a completely new perspective. Does Trevelyan believe? Are they confused? What does it mean to them? We venture into the Deep Roads quite a few times, we deal with lyrium quite a bit, and we even get an entire DLC with tons of new, fascinating lore about all of that, as well. (Seriously, the talk of Titans, the caverns with lyrium veins and the sea, finding vegetation and living beings all the way down there and everything left me breathless every step of the way and I haven't even played a dwarf yet.) Trespasser must be rather interesting with a qunari, too. People in this thread even posted very nice examples of how other characters comment on the Inquisitor's race.

 

The elven Inquisitor might in the end get more relevant content, but if somebody hates playing elves, but loves dwarves or humans or qunari, I'm sure that playing an elf wouldn't really make their experience better or more enjoyable. It wouldn't feel right to them no matter how much content elves get. It sure must be a completely different experience to be like, "Haha, stupid elves self-destructed, that explains a lot," in the end, instead of Lavellan's, "Well, this is awkward," one. I bet not everybody prefers the latter.

 

I'm currently trying a male Trevelyan, an archer, and it's a lot of fun. I like him and this playthrough, as well. He's confused about whether or not Andraste really chose him because who is he to claim that? But he'll come to believe. He chose to ask the templars for help because magic is a little scary and untrustworthy to him. I'm looking forward to seeing the Winter Palace with him. I don't feel so strongly about his playthrough as about my Lavellan's, but I could easily see it become somebody else's favourite experience because, while I sure prefer my Lavellan, I really don't feel there's anything missing.

 

I think these things really are about personal tastes in the end. Is the female elf mage the best Inquisitor to play? For me? Hell, yeah! I love it so much. But that's just me anyway.

[Wulfram]

But there are also several options where the Dalish character can choose to be a believer and literally say, "I worship Dalish/elven gods." I felt like there was plenty of varied emotional reaction (and potential reaction) from a Lavellan protagonist, and that it was well-written for the most part. And while the loss of clan Lavellan isn't addressed as it should have been in DAI (I was so saddened by this!), they did remedy this, I felt, in "Trespasser," with dialogue about some of the clan surviving after all, and that Leliana (I think? or Josephine) is working on reconnecting and helping them.

You get a lot of occasions when the game asks "Do you believe in the Maker" and you sometimes get to say "no, I believe in elven gods", but those conversations are always about Andrastean faith, with this just being an alternatively flavoured "no".
 

On the "Trespasser" revelations about Fen'Harel, since all of the discoveries of his actions as a rebel against slavery appear to be real truth (versus propaganda), to me the acceptance of each new discovery isn't so much about the character's gullibility as it is the necessity for streamlining the writing and story and keeping it moving. Thus far, I played one Lavellan who was a total nonbeliever, and one who was a Dalish believer, and it was interesting to be able to play both of those with a fair amount of specific interesting dialogue for each opposing viewpoint.

I just don't find steamlining away such a profound and transformative moment for the character very acceptable. This sort of thing shouldn't be some minor detail to be got out of the way so the real plot can keep going.

It stands in stark contrast to the barrage of invitations to talk about Andrastean faith

"Do you believe you were sent by the Maker"
"No, I don't believe in the Maker"
"Do you believe in the Maker"
"No"
"Do you believe in the Maker"
"No"
"Do you believe you were sent by the maker now that you survived an avalanche"
"No"
"Are you upset that it turns out you weren't sent by the Maker?"
"..."

"Oh, BTW, it turns out Dalish religion is a pack of lies. But that's not important, go kill some Qunari"
 

Perhaps my favorite moment there is in "Trespasser," when Sera (who spent DAI openly scoffing at the ancient elves and any discoveries we made) actually takes a moment to ask Lavellan how she's doing with all the elfy stuff (basically, about the 'gods' revelations), and I loved that we could answer "I'm fine with it" or "I'm really not fine with it," and Sera not only responds with a lot of sweetness and heart, but later even makes a diary entry about wanting to help.

That's interesting, I never got that. I guess it requires high approval with Sera, which I generally don't have.

[Heathen Oxman]

Well....

 

So far, my favorite Inquisitor is my male dwarf, so, in the words of Doctor Evil, "How about no, Scott."

[vertigomez]

You get a lot of occasions when the game asks "Do you believe in the Maker" and you sometimes get to say "no, I believe in elven gods", but those conversations are always about Andrastean faith, with this just being an alternatively flavoured "no".

Not to derail the thread, but this strikes me as utterly realistic. IRL in my experience, when you're surrounded by a religious majority, this is exactly what happens. It's 'yeeeaah okay your faith is nice and all, but what about Jesus/Andraste'?

It doesn't take away from playing a non-Andrastian character. It just highlights it.

[Abyss108]

Not to derail the thread, but this strikes me as utterly realistic. IRL in my experience, when you're surrounded by a religious majority, this is exactly what happens. It's 'yeeeaah okay your faith is nice and all, but what about Jesus/Andraste'?

It doesn't take away from playing a non-Andrastian character. It just highlights it.

 

Yeah, this exactly.

 

All the other characters believe in the Maker and really want you to believe in him as well. They don't really care about your own religion. It probably doesn't occur to them how much this might be affecting you, especially since whilst finding out these things they are running around fighting for their life.

 

Would have been nice to work this in somehow, maybe add some other Elves in to talk to, but its understandable that the people who were there might not bring it up. Sera, the only other Elf there does bring it up with you and ask if you are OK. You can tell her you are not.

[Deanna Troy]

Main game is ridiculously awful to the point that it is impossible to believe it was released but it is a lot more interesting if you are a female elf.

Jaws of Hakkon story is kind of interesting but it is 10x more interesting if you are an elf.

Trespasser was the only really good thing in this disgusting game and it is 100x more interesting if you are a female elf.

So yeah, if you want a story that is, at least, barely interesting, be a female elf.

 

If you're into story and lore I can't think of anything but a female elf as the Inquisitor. Also it is the only way to make the next game(s) interesting or else Solas will be meaningless, a boring villain.

I've had good time with other races, but humans are plain, qunari and dwarves make you cry because of how much their race is ignored, and then with elf you feel like every quest was written to please you, I mean, not please as in giving pleasure to the character, but pleasure in the fact that the journey is meaningful and everything shakes your world for good or bad.

[berelinde]

Not to derail the thread, but this strikes me as utterly realistic. IRL in my experience, when you're surrounded by a religious majority, this is exactly what happens. It's 'yeeeaah okay your faith is nice and all, but what about Jesus/Andraste'?

It doesn't take away from playing a non-Andrastian character. It just highlights it.

Seriously. And if said religious majority claims to be tolerant of other faiths, what they mean is "You're free to believe what you want in the privacy of your own skull, as long as you practice our religion in public."

 

Which is kinda how it works in the game, too, come to think of it. Props for authenticity, I guess.

[Matriarch]

Main game is ridiculously awful to the point that it is impossible to believe it was released but it is a lot more interesting if you are a female elf.

Jaws of Hakkon story is kind of interesting but it is 10x more interesting if you are an elf.

Trespasser was the only really good thing in this disgusting game and it is 100x more interesting if you are a female elf.

So yeah, if you want a story that is, at least, barely interesting, be a female elf.

 

If you're into story and lore I can't think of anything but a female elf as the Inquisitor. Also it is the only way to make the next game(s) interesting or else Solas will be meaningless, a boring villain.

I've had good time with other races, but humans are plain, qunari and dwarves make you cry because of how much their race is ignored, and then with elf you feel like every quest was written to please you, I mean, not please as in giving pleasure to the character, but pleasure in the fact that the journey is meaningful and everything shakes your world for good or bad.

 

 

As Origins tended more for Cousland and DA2 for the mage supporter... Your point?

 

Thing is, there's a chance for all of them equally. If you're the dwarf, the Keeper's First will die and is not even mentioned, same goes for all others and vice versa.

 

You may play Lavellan that hates Solas. You may play other race and be his best friend. You have a reason to condemn him in all scenarios (apart from the obvious fact that he wants to kill everyone, right?)

[CronoDragoon]

I agree that female elf is the most meaningful way to play Inquisition, all else (including personal preference) being equal. There's just so much content in the game that pertains to them.

[Dai Grepher]

To say just that it's what the developers originally planned I don't think is strong enough reasoning. If it's the storyline that you think fits a human better that is all to do with perspective. There is enough to do with elven lore to argue that a dalish inquisitor is more relevant. I'm not saying this is the case because as people have pointed out it's a very subjective matter but you are saying objectively that a human is better suited without referring to anything that happens in the actual game.

 

Why is that? The developers planned the game around a human. The others races were added later. How is that not proof that the game fits a human better? It was designed specifically for a human.

 

There is next to nothing about elven lore. You have the orb, which is now being used by a darkspawn magister, and you have Mythal, who is now being carried by a human witch. Where is all the elven lore?

 

The storyline involves human countries, human nobles, human religion, and human problems. Clearly a human is better suited to deal with these problems.

 

I referred to game events. You probably didn't see the post. Mages turn to human Tevinter. Templars are all human and it takes human Orlesian nobles to approach them. Most people in Haven and Skyhold are human. The Grey Wardens are mostly human. Most of the important people at Halamshiral are human. Emprise du Lion and Sahrnia, Exalted Plains, Emerald Graves. Even the antagonists are human. Alexius, Lucius, Samson, Calpernia, Erimond, Servis, Florienne, the Venatori, the Red Templars, the Freemen of the Dales, the Blades of Hesserian, the bandits, the dragon hunters in the Western Approach, the Jaws of Hakkon, etc. Every person you judge; human. Most of the romances; human. Humans everywhere, doing everything.

 

Elven ruins and such are side content until you get to the Temple of Mythal, and even here the atmosphere is "polluted" with human interference and the feel of it is overshadowed by Morrigan. And I just cringe when my female elf mage would ask "who is this supposed to be" when examining elven mosaics. She didn't even recognize Falon'Din when she wears his vallaslin. How much more immersion breaking can you get than that?

[Dai Grepher]

Hmm.... if they'd decided to add races earlier, what do you figure would have followed? Cut WEWH outright? I don't share your feelings on this matter in the first place, so I'm not in a great position to guess what Bio would have done.

 

I suspect the ball would have allowed dancing for a human, a debate of sorts for a dwarf, maybe some kind of social prank for an elf, and an outright assassination attempt for a qunari. Or maybe it would be mixed up a bit depending on gender as well.

[vertigomez]

I suspect the ball would have allowed dancing for a human, a debate of sorts for a dwarf, maybe some kind of social prank for an elf, and an outright assassination attempt for a qunari. Or maybe it would be mixed up a bit depending on gender as well.

I doubt we would ever get that much reactivity. Ever. We didn't at the Landsmeet, and that was made with multiple races in mind. Hawke's experience at Chateau Haine doesn't vary at all based on their sex.

For me, half the fun of the ball was navigating it as something other than a human noble.

[Dai Grepher]

It did? How?
 

When were those? The ones I remember come after the Inquisitor is confronted with evidence that the elven faith is crap.

I didn't see more options for my human. When did I get them?

 

Each Origin story had some kind of relation to a later plot. Cousland and Howe, Amell/Surana and the Circle, Aducan and Orzammar, etc. Also there was a special instance where if you did the Circle first and saved the mages, then you could immediately call on them for Redcliffe, and even have Jowan or Irving go into the Fade for you. If you sided with templars, then this was cut off and your story would take a different path. Another example is if you sought out Genitivi first before going to Redcliffe, the dialogue is different because you already found the urn. Also, who you take to the urn and if you decide to poison it or not. Same with Shale and Caradin, and not just the choice of siding with Caradin or Branka, but if you recruited Shale first or not. There is also extra content for Loghain if you saved Return to Ostagar for after the Landsmeet. Also how you dealt with the Ostagar prisoner affects your chance to loot the Circle's supply chest either at Ostagar or when you return, and the loot varies.
 

When were those what? The option to say you believe in the elven pantheon, or the choice to say you don't believe in gods? The former is with Cassandra in Haven. The latter is right before you fight Corypheus.

 

The options I refer to are in reply to the point about roleplaying. A human can be devout, skeptical, unsure/neutral, or even anti-Chantry and anti-Andrasteism. A Dalish has the same options in regard to Andrasteism, but not the Dalish religion. The game's dialogue choices and script automatically make your Dalish ignorant of certain things regarding elven beliefs and have them make statements that refer to the elven pantheon as myth or as false. Even two of the questions in Trespasser have every Inquisitor calling the evanuris false gods, including the Dalish Inquisitor.

[Dai Grepher]

I liked the amount of extra stuff I got as an Elf...

 

Had a conversation with Josie about my people. Told Cassandra I had my own Gods. Sera hated me because I was Elfy. Every conversation with Solas had this stuff in it. Had an awkward moment with Dorian where he asked if I was OK with him because of how Tevinter treats Elves. Got to argue with Morrigan about the well being my heritage, and talk about what my clan beleived about all the Gods. Had numerous people tell me an Elf couldn't be the Herald. Had the OGB comment on it. Had Cory comment on it.

 

I had dialogue choices where I needed them to be. I didn't get to specifically say every single choice I made was because of my Elfy beliefs, but why would I? When I make a choice as a human I don't end everything I say with "AND I SAY THIS BECAUSE I'M HUMAN-Y".

 

Yeah but most of that is alternate dialogue choices. Mere tweaks. There is some representation in the early part of the game, but once you reach Mythal's temple and beyond that, even into Trespasser, Dalish representation goes out the window, while human representation remains all throughout.
 

[Wulfram]

Not to derail the thread, but this strikes me as utterly realistic. IRL in my experience, when you're surrounded by a religious majority, this is exactly what happens. It's 'yeeeaah okay your faith is nice and all, but what about Jesus/Andraste'?

It doesn't take away from playing a non-Andrastian character. It just highlights it.

The presence of those discussions doesn't take away from playing a non-Andrastian character, but the lack of opportunity to explore your own faith does. Particularly in the case of a Dalish character, since in the latter portion of the game that faith is very much in play.

If the writers didn't think they could explore Dalish faith in conversation with an Andrastean character, they should have had a Dalish character with more than a bit part. Though personally I think a Dalish character could have had an interesting discussion on faith with Leliana.

I could also have done with the opportunity to get a bit snippy about things some times. Particularly when Cassandra's being all dismissive of elven religion in the Temple of Mythal - come on, I've put up with all your stuff.

[Abyss108]

Yeah but most of that is alternate dialogue choices. Mere tweaks. There is some representation in the early part of the game, but once you reach Mythal's temple and beyond that, even into Trespasser, Dalish representation goes out the window, while human representation remains all throughout.
 

 

I disagree. Human gets much less unique content, and the generic content never felt like it didn't fit my Elf. There's nothing specifically human about any of the options. The Elf doesn't need anything more than dialogue options and tweaks.

 

Mythals temple is bad, yeah. The rest was fine for me.

[Dai Grepher]

I doubt we would ever get that much reactivity. Ever. We didn't at the Landsmeet, and that was made with multiple races in mind. Hawke's experience at Chateau Haine doesn't vary at all based on their sex.

For me, half the fun of the ball was navigating it as something other than a human noble.

 

Yeah, we probably wouldn't. So I guess it would be reduced to just some battle of wits in a debate style show of cunning and style. Probably some yo momma jokes.

 

Well, that's fine and all, but the point about the ball is that it favors a male playthrough over a female one. It isn't really about race, but I suppose it could be a side point.

[Abyss108]

Your entire point about the ball is that women aren't allowed to lead dances... Which is an absolutely ridiculous opinion to hold...

[AlanC9]

You get a lot of occasions when the game asks "Do you believe in the Maker" and you sometimes get to say "no, I believe in elven gods", but those conversations are always about Andrastean faith, with this just being an alternatively flavoured "no". 

But that's the conversation the NPC wants to have, right? Are you looking for different PC answers, or different NPC questions?

There are awfully few Dalish characters in the game, of course.

[AlanC9]

Well, that's fine and all, but the point about the ball is that it favors a male playthrough over a female one. It isn't really about race, but I suppose it could be a side point.

"Favors" meaning "Dai Grepher likes it better that way"? It obviously was always intended for a female PC to go through that sequence, so this can't be about the design intent.

[Kingthlayer]

I tried female elf, it wasn't very interesting so I'd say no.  I stick with the Dwarf Males.

[Wulfram]

But that's the conversation the NPC wants to have, right? Are you looking for different PC answers, or different NPC questions?

Both, ideally.

The "do you believe in the Maker" stuff could have done with having more specifically dalish options rather than just a generic expression of Dalishness - do you angrily denounce the faith that destroyed your homeland, or perhaps diplomatically offer praise of Andraste as the liberator of your people while still asserting your faith? Or perhaps you could suggest that you're actually Heralf of Mythal?

And then some better dialogue options in the post Temple of Mythal conversation with Sera would have helped a lot. Though ideally I think we could have done with talking to someone else as well, because it'd be hard to not make Sera's own issues dominate that conversation. And in Trespasser the first thing would be to get rid of the auto-dialogue while the Fen'harel revelations are taking place, but also adding a decent introspective conversation for the Inquisitor once you get back would have been a good idea.
 

There are awfully few Dalish characters in the game, of course.

True. Considering the events of the latter part of the game and Trespasser I'd consider that a problem

[Sylvianus]

Why is that? The developers planned the game around a human. The others races were added later. How is that not proof that the game fits a human better? It was designed specifically for a human.

 

 

While I agree that a human fits better the story in DAI in my opinion, I do think that perspective is a powerful thing and that finally, whether the game was initially designed for a human or not doesn't really matter and won't change the mind of anyone. Everyone has its opinion, and nobody is going to change lol, because his / her own personal experience and what he / she enjoys is stronger than any argument. If someone enjoys only playing dwarves, is totally fond of everything about them, with all the background behind, if he enjoys for example being an anti-hero, a smuggler from the carta, a small char in a world of giants, being seen as an outsider and a foreigner to human politics within the story, then it's likely that for him /her, the story fits better a dwarf. I've read a bit the dwarf thread, and OMG, I was impressed by how some had a very different perspective from mine about how they perceive their story with their inquisiitor, with so many details about the lore around dwarves backing their character and how he/ she is going to evolve with a new and fresh POV. 

 

The same in the Solas thread with elves, seeing people even talking with weird elven words which never mean anything to me ! XD ( I admit, I suck with the elven lore and I never learn..   ) I found interesting how they imagined their story. Everything will make sense according to what the player will have built in his / her head and how he /she is figuring out how his / her inquisitor reacts to everything. It will be his / her story, and everything will happen according to his / her perspective, regardless if the game was initially designed for a human or not. The revelations about Mythal affect the character in a different way, and that's what is interesting. We also do learn about all the races in the game, dlc included. So all races might have a little more importance than others at one point.

 

I personally enjoy playing a human who was privilegied in his life, with a grey personality, educated as an andrastian, really into politics. So obviously he is sad about the chaos happening in Thedas, feels naturally entilted as a noble to save the human world, fears the worst for the chantry and the cult of Andraste. And therefore there is nothing I feel more appropriated and I enjoy more than a story with an inquisitor as the defender of faith, who will restore order, save his world threatened, and will prevent the chantry to fall, being the leader and the light that will pierce the darkness. The same with all the questions around being the true herald of andraste or not, very interesting for me. I enjoyed roleplaying my inquisitor being absolutely crushed when he learned that it wasn't Andraste, but Justinia who saved him, despite not really wanting to believe it himself. He pretended at the beginning he was the herald because of his cold political and cunning mind, not because he really believed it, he sill was crushed in the end. All the discussions he enjoyed with mother Giselle, all of that content was awesome for me to imagine with my human inquisitor. And then when I try a playthrough with an elf, it feels flat. When I discuss again with mother Giselle about the andrastian faith, being the herald or not, Corypheus and the black city, if the maker exist ? It feels flat as a dalish. It's not the same at all for me. The same discussion becomes suddenly boring. 

 

The same with a qunari.. But someone else with other tastes will think differently with a different mind. The opposite It was for example better with a dalish and boring with a human lol. Perspective, perspective, perspective lol. 

 

There are many people in Skyrim who kept claiming that the story better suits a native nord, because the plot happens in their country, Skyrim. I never  argued with them but I never once felt that way, not even the first time I played a Nord. I read their arguments, and while it was interesting, it didn't affect me. I much more enjoyed the story with my redguard, loved thinking that a dark skinned mercenary from the south, foreigner and former pirate was going to be the new hero against dragons in a country that he hardly knows, while he escaped the coast of his own country, going to play a major role with the civil war. 

 

This is why I don't bother to be honest lmao. 

[CronoDragoon]

True. Considering the events of the latter part of the game and Trespasser I'd consider that a problem

That's another point in a Dalish PC's favor, right? If the latter part of the game should have a Dalish perspective but doesn't unless the PC is Dalish.

[Wulfram]

That's another point in a Dalish PC's favor, right? If the latter part of the game should have a Dalish perspective but doesn't unless the PC is Dalish.

I suppose, but then I don't really feel the Inquisitor is able to offer a Dalish perspective so I don't feel it actually adds much