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What has EA done in the last couple of years that give you hope for ME:A?


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#276
LinksOcarina

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This is confusing the scenario that was with some sort of inevitability. Cerberus as we knew it in ME2 was invented in ME2- it wasn't even a game in town at the ending of ME1. Anyone else could have been just as (re)invented- such as the Shadow Broker as a patron- or we could have had other reasons than total ignorance for why the Council can't help Shepard.

 

ME1 had a great big Geth invasion and war with the Alliance. That would be a perfectly acceptable distraction for the Alliance and Council while small and independent colonies go missing.

 

 

Since the Reaper's strength is arbitrary, this isn't an actual limitation. The Reaper invasion can be as strong as the writer wants to be no matter how well the galaxy is prepared. Moreover, ME2's endpoint is whatever the writers want... and could be such that the crisis is worse and more dire, rather than less. It could even end with a partial Reaper success, which would be an excellent bridging purpose of a mid-game.

 

Say the conflict of ME2 is with the war against the Heretic Geth rather than collectors. In the course of the war, the Geth (at the behest of the Reapers) make outreaches with the Terminus and anti-Council groups, risking a Terminus War that would divide the galaxy in time for the Reapers arrival, while building some gambit that could turn the war (say infecting the Dyson Sphere with the heretic virus).

 

Let the Suicide Mission be about breaching the Rannoch relay-  suitably impossible for the setting. Let the character missions be about trying to put out the brush fires that could start the Terminus War. Let the subplots be about things and themes that will actually matter in ME3- of Synthetic-Organic conflicts, or Dark Energy, or whatever.

 

And then let Shepard return from the Suicide Mission, having saved the galaxy in the short term, to realize the Reapers have lit it aflame elsewhere. That the Batarian Rebellions have started, pitting Humans against Batarians, while a Krogan Civil War threatens to launch a new Krogan Rebellion. Let the Quarians- whether desperate or indoctrinated or both- launch a war against the Geth, regardless of the True Geth of Legion.

 

Let progress be made, and yet also a galaxy divided, so that Shepard's uniting of the galaxy come ME3 comes in the context of a galaxy that was already preparing for war.

 

 

 

The Collectors as a super-advanced minion were pitiful because they opened up multiple logic holes- starting with why they didn't help out Sovereign and Saren's goal in ME1 (where seeker swarm tech would have made capturing the Citadel a cakewalk), and moving on to why they were they acting at all.

 

There was never any point to the Human Reaper from the Reaper's ambitions- it was never going to be completed without Earth, and Earth was going to be blitzed from the start by the Reapers thus rendering the colonies irrelevant for havesting purposes.

 

The Collectors were also largely redundant, in that they thematically replicated what the Geth already were in ME1: a secretive, reclusive race behind relays that no one survives going past with extremely advanced technology and unknown intentions. If the Geth had done the harvesting at the Reaper's bidding, it'd make just as much sense.
 

 

You never had total control, though.

 

I know I never had total control, but I also knew that going into the game after playing Mass Effect 1, unlike a lot of other people it seems. So the narrative itself was always going to be "railroaded" a certain way for it to make sense in the context of the game and the plot. 

 

Most of what you say about is still wishful thinking though, which is kind of irrelevant in the end. "What ifs?" never really pan out because we may see most of it as perfect or logical, but there will always be a problem somewhere.

 

Fact of the matter is any justification can be made for all of this, including what you said, what I said, what the others on here say, and so forth. Perhaps the Shadow Broker had a bigger role at one point. Perhaps the Geth conflict was going to be escalated (they hint at it in 2s opening), or perhaps the Dark Energy stuff might have been a good idea (I was never convinced it was, felt just as arbitrary as the reapers) but at the end of the day we can only go for what the developers thought would work. In the case of Mass Effect 2, it was always going to be a work; swap out Collectors for Geth, Cerberus for the Shadow Broker or Batarians or whoever it might be, would likely still follow the same narrative, and may or may not make any more or less sense than before. 



#277
Biotic Apostate

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One other thing people forget, BioWare was also in a weird situation in 2006-2007, when they were a part of Elevation Partners with Pandemic, and both studios were kind of in limbo financially along with management changes before the buyout by EA. 

Little off topic to the discussion here, but Greg Zeschuk (I think it was him) was hinting in an interview that without the EA buyout (and with the then incoming financial crisis) BioWare would not have survived. That partnership obviously accomplished nothing.



#278
LinksOcarina

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Little off topic to the discussion here, but Greg Zeschuk (I think it was him) was hinting in an interview that without the EA buyout (and with the then incoming financial crisis) BioWare would not have survived. That partnership obviously accomplished nothing.

 

What interview is this?

 

Do you have a link?



#279
KamuiStorm

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Well Dragon age inquisition for one, honestly don't pay much attention to ea or any developer for that matter save bioware or bethedsa. I guess bioware is now ea though? I just play the games man as long as they're enjoyable then I'm good

#280
Neverwinter_Knight77

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Well, I think we can all agree that Bioware's two biggest strengths are characters and... trailers. I'm not talking about the misleading CG crap. I'm talking about launch trailers. I still go back and watch the ME2 Heart of Courage trailer! The ME3 FemShep trailer was great too. I love that line. "Tell your friends we're coming for them."

So if nothing else, I expect at least ME:A's (non-teaser) trailer to kick ass.
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#281
Dean_the_Young

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Most of what you say about is still wishful thinking though, which is kind of irrelevant in the end. "What ifs?" never really pan out because we may see most of it as perfect or logical, but there will always be a problem somewhere.

 

 

The difference between wishful thinking and hypotheticals is the point. A hypothetical that shows how the core plot could have been structurally tied to into the trilogy structure does just that- it demonstrates capacity. If a hypothetical can exist, and plausibly, then arguments of 'it had to be the way it was' are false.

 

Narrative design decisions (the ME2 story structure of a suicide mission full of characters irrelevant to the overarching plots of the trilogy that conceivably does nothing to prepare the galaxy for the Reapers) are in no way inherently required.

 

 

 

 

 

Fact of the matter is any justification can be made for all of this, including what you said, what I said, what the others on here say, and so forth. Perhaps the Shadow Broker had a bigger role at one point. Perhaps the Geth conflict was going to be escalated (they hint at it in 2s opening), or perhaps the Dark Energy stuff might have been a good idea (I was never convinced it was, felt just as arbitrary as the reapers) but at the end of the day we can only go for what the developers thought would work. In the case of Mass Effect 2, it was always going to be a work; swap out Collectors for Geth, Cerberus for the Shadow Broker or Batarians or whoever it might be, would likely still follow the same narrative, and may or may not make any more or less sense than before. 

 

 

 

The difference is that you made a claim that things had to be the way you are. I am countering by offering alternatives. The only way your previous argument can stand is if alternatives are impossible.

 

It's not a subjective argument of 'I like's.' You are making claims that can, and are, challenged. Why, to pick one, was Cerberus the only game in town for the writers when planning ME2?



#282
Biotic Apostate

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What interview is this?

 

Do you have a link?

It was a long time ago, the closest I could find is this

http://www.gamesindu...-console-future

 

Q: So you're saying you wouldn't change anything with BioWare, and that means you're completely happy with how the EA acquisition turned out also?
Greg Zeschuk: Oh yeah, for sure. I think there were a lot of factors to consider in that as well. I think when you look back at the timing, it was right before the gigantic financial collapse, and we were part of a private equity company at the time, so if you look at it from a purely analytic perspective things could've turned out a lot worse.
 
There was more, but I can't find it right now.

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#283
LinksOcarina

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The difference between wishful thinking and hypotheticals is the point. A hypothetical that shows how the core plot could have been structurally tied to into the trilogy structure does just that- it demonstrates capacity. If a hypothetical can exist, and plausibly, then arguments of 'it had to be the way it was' are false.

 

Narrative design decisions (the ME2 story structure of a suicide mission full of characters irrelevant to the overarching plots of the trilogy that conceivably does nothing to prepare the galaxy for the Reapers) are in no way inherently required.

 

 

 

 

The difference is that you made a claim that things had to be the way you are. I am countering by offering alternatives. The only way your previous argument can stand is if alternatives are impossible.

 

It's not a subjective argument of 'I like's.' You are making claims that can, and are, challenged. Why, to pick one, was Cerberus the only game in town for the writers when planning ME2?

 

It is a subjective argument, because it's still a "what if." We will never know why Cerberus was the only game in town, we will never know what alternatives were thought of in their place, if any even exist. Doesn't matter if you want to make a hypothetical to find a point, it solves nothing nor has any gain, outside of personal enjoyment and having some fun thinking about this stuff. 

 

I make the claim that things had to be the way they were because that's how it happened, by the way. It's playing the ball where it laid, not speculating that if we went another way things might be different. You're alternatives are fun to think about, but ultimately don't matter to what happened in the game.

 

So to answer your question, yeah, Cerberus was the only game in town for the writers. It's what happened. If they had alternatives they didn't pick them for whatever reason that the writers and developers only know. Everything else is just fun thought experiments, nothing more, nothing serious. 



#284
Ahglock

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The problem with this is that the timing of the attack is still wholly at the Reapers' discretion. They don't have to enter the galaxy in Citadel-controlled space, or even in space with an active relay connected to Citadel-controlled space. They can find a bunch of pre-mass effect tech races, enslave them, and rebuild. Edit: also note that as Reaper strength relative to Citadel fleet strength decreases, actually trying to perform a harvest on the current cycle becomes a less sensible option for the Reapers than just writing the cycle off and burning all the industrialized worlds from space. (Master of Orion players may be familiar with this tactic.)

As for going from a trilogy to a tetralogy, that makes the problems of accomodating choices from the earlier games even worse, and ME3 was already having problems with that as it was. There's a reason ME3 has a bunch of autodialogue even though it has a lot more wordcount than the earlier games. You could write around this, I guess, by having no real choices in ME3 and killing off a bunch of the surviving ME2 squadmates whatever happens, so ME4 would have less baggage. That would mean making a better ME4 at the cost of a worse ME3.

 

 

No plot in the history of plots stands up to a well they could of done something different test.  Besides ME2 demonstrated that rebuilding reapers isn't a small task it was more like depopulate an entire species to make 1.  So yes they could have delayed and harvested in unknown areas but its more like a hundreds of years delay while the galaxy might be preparing and it kind of depopulates their food supply for the next harvest. So this covers whats necessary for that test on a practical level.  Yes, they could have harvested in unknown areas but their are reasons why they might take the gamble and attack now especially given their arrogance. 



#285
Ahglock

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It was irrelevant on its own, because instead of finding new ways to destroy the Reapers, Bioware invented the Collectors and took a sidequest villanous faction, Cerberus, and tried to present it as the good guys. Why is this detour suddenly necessary, and why does someone at Bioware love Cerberus so much? And then of course, this little terrorist group ends up having an army, a huge fleet, and all of these ridiculous financial resources in ME3.

 

Why would Shepard be involved in finding new ways to defeat the reapers.  He's a soldier.  Finding and attacking the allies of the reapers in this galaxy advances the plot far more for a soldier than him suddenly becoming a inventor and designing new ways to fight reapers or a politician and forming a alliance.



#286
AlanC9

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No plot in the history of plots stands up to a well they could of done something different test. Besides ME2 demonstrated that rebuilding reapers isn't a small task it was more like depopulate an entire species to make 1. So yes they could have delayed and harvested in unknown areas but its more like a hundreds of years delay while the galaxy might be preparing and it kind of depopulates their food supply for the next harvest. So this covers whats necessary for that test on a practical level. Yes, they could have harvested in unknown areas but their are reasons why they might take the gamble and attack now especially given their arrogance.

Wait... so now the idea isn't that they would need to make repairs/refuel/whatever, but that they would have to build whole new Reapers? OK, yeah, that's a bit more time-and-resource intensive.

But a bad harvest just isn't worth taking a risk of losing a war over. And again, a war that the Reapers have a chance of losing is not a war where the Reapers play nice and harvest homeworlds. It's a war where they scorch homeworlds in an hour and move on to the next one.