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[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

(Clears throat) "We are the Dalish. Keepers of the lost lore, walkers of the lonely path. We are the last of the elvhenan and never again shall we submit."

Now, I assume you haven't read The Calling? "Behind him, Genevieve dropped to one knee, as did the others. Duncan reluctantly followed suit. He had been told that their order owed fealty to no nation and no king, but apparently they still bent knee when they felt like putting on a good show."

If they ever bow to anyone, it is unusual and not their way. They are an independent group that answers to no one, which is part of why people didn't trust them in less glorious times.

Also, lol @ paying taxes.

Again: that was all back when the Wardens weren't also Ferelden lords. That does mean they owe fealty to the Crown, and the lands under their control do in fact owe taxes. You can argue that neither a Warden nor a Dalish elf should accept that position in the first place, but I don't see an argument that being one or both of those things gets them out of bowing to the Queen they are in fact subordinate to if they do accept said position.

[straykat]

You can tell Cailan off.. and Duncan barely cares. And he only admonishes you when he explains that Cailan is one of only a few people trying to help. So he gives an actual reason to defer to Cailan, instead of some stupid **** about kings and divine right.

 

This is why Loghain should've just won.

[Aren]

Again: that was all back when the Wardens weren't also Ferelden lords. That does mean they owe fealty to the Crown, and the lands under their control do in fact owe taxes. You can argue that neither a Warden nor a Dalish elf should accept that position in the first place, but I don't see an argument that being one or both of those things gets them out of bowing to the Queen they are in fact subordinate to if they do accept said position.

I have never understood if Teyrn and Arle owe fealty to the crown.

In Ferelden everyone is a ruler of their own lands.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I have never understood if Teyrn and Arle owe fealty to the crown.

In Ferelden everyone is a ruler of their own lands.

It's a bit complicated, but the long and short of it is that everyone is supposed to defer to whoever is sitting on the throne, and that everyone who has a lord between them and the crown owes allegiance to them too. The complicating factors are that the king everyone is subordinate to is supposed to be chosen by the assembled nobles (though they seem to exclusively pick from the Theirin family until the events of the first game) and that the whole "weak central authority" thing means that a Ferelden lord or king gets what they can from their subordinates rather than what they're owed.

 

 

You can tell Cailan off.. and Duncan barely cares. And he only admonishes you when he explains that Cailan is one of only a few people trying to help. So he gives an actual reason to defer to Cailan, instead of some stupid **** about kings and divine right.

 

This is why Loghain should've just won.   

 

 

Well, holding a Ferelden fief seems like an actual reason to defer to whoever you gave the crown to.

[ThomasBlaine]

You can tell Cailan off.. and Duncan barely cares. And he only admonishes you when he explains that Cailan is one of only a few people trying to help. So he gives an actual reason to defer to Cailan, instead of some stupid **** about kings and divine right.

 

This is why Loghain should've just won.

 

Heh, Cailan and Anora are vastly different rulers when it comes to ettiquette. That meeting with Cailan is the Dalish elf's first encounter with the human infrastructure, which apparently isn't lost on the former, and he's too intriqued by meeting one of the famed wild elves to take offense. Remember Duncan scolding Alistair for "sassing mages"? If you had actually managed to make the King angry he would have been furious.

 

I have never understood if Teyrn and Arle owe fealty to the crown.

In Ferelden everyone is a ruler of their own lands.

 

The Banns owe fealty to their Arls, the Arls owe fealty to their Teyrns if they have one, and everyone owes fealty to the Crown. In peacetime this would mean taxes and being subject to the King's overruling and potential levies while having some autonomy in their own regions. In wartime each lord would owe the Crown a number of able-bodied soldiers taken from local militias plus horses and supplies depending on the size and population of their demesne in addition to any standing armies the lords may possess.

 

Apparently an Arl and above can call a Landsmeet, compelling every ruling lord in the country to Denerim to discuss national emergencies. Presumably there is a regular schedule of Landsmeets every year or two besides that. While the monarch has authority over individual lords, s/he is at least partially subject to the Landmeet as a whole on subjects discussed at the meeting. It appears that every Arling has one vote which either counts as just one or is also weighted proportionally to their size and population.

 

In the game's featured Landsmeets, Loghain would be confident in being able to control the ruling with Anora's vote as Queen, Howe's votes as Arl of Denerim, Arl of Ameranthine and Teyrn of Highever, and his own vote as Teyrn of Gwaren, which I think is what we see in the early cutscene that has Teagan chewing Loghain out in Denerim and being brushed off.  Given the importance of Anora's support for the Warden, it's possible that the Crown's vote counts for more than any of the others. Anora's authority as Queen Dowager and Loghain's as her father and Regent are already in question by law, so it's unclear if the Landsmeet has the right to outright dethrone the King under normal circumstances.

[straykat]

Heh, Cailan and Anora are vastly different rulers when it comes to ettiquette. That meeting with Cailan is the Dalish elf's first encounter with the human infrastructure, which apparently isn't lost on the former, and he's too intriqued by meeting one of the famed wild elves to take offense. Remember Duncan scolding Alistair for "sassing mages"? If you had actually managed to make the King mad at the Grey Wardens he would have been furious.

 

Fair point. Personally, I gotta give Cailan a little credit for this too.

 

He's just as accommodating when I admit to killing Vaughn on a CE. Only my CE thinks he's even more of a fool afterwards.

[ThomasBlaine]

Fair point. Personally, I gotta give Cailan a little credit for this too.

 

He's just as accommodating when I admit to killing Vaughn on a CE. Only my CE thinks he's even more of a fool afterwards.

 

Agreed. Whatever else he is, Cailan seems like a pretty stand-up guy. I found him incredibly charming and hard not to like in my first few playthroughs, before I realized the context and consequences of his... let's call it idealism. Back To Ostagar, The Stolen Throne and The Calling completely changed the way I thought of him. And Duncan and Wynne too, by extension.

[Qun00]

I'll never understand why the Warden's "surname" is Mahariel.

S/He was born and raised in the Sabrae clan. Only the mother is from somewhere else.

[straykat]

I'll never understand why the Warden's "surname" is Mahariel.

S/He was born and raised in the Sabrae clan. Only the mother is from somewhere else.

 

The family could have been adopted into it long ago.. since the old Keeper was the Warden's dad. Mages might clan hop more, if not outright get exiled. This is like Merrill, who was adopted from an Antivan clan.

 

I also think it goes with some of the themes.

 

Bear with me. Mahariel is the angel at the gates of Heaven. This is similar to Falon'Din, who guides people in the afterlife.

 

You start off with Tamlen, who is sort of a Dirthamen symbol. He's got the Vallaslin, he's a sneaky little dude with his secrets. And he goes missing, much like the real Dirthamen. Mahariel (along with Merrill) are similar to Falon'Din, looking for the lost brother. Alternatively, if you use the female default Lyna, it almost sounds a little based off Ghilan'nain when pronounced (same with Lanaya). The Halla also guide people in the afterlife, so there's an extra meaning here besides Falon'Din.

 

Of course, that could all be bullshit too.

[Qun00]

I don't think I've ever heard of an angel called Mahariel. Is it a modified version of the original name?

As for Tamlen's vallaslin... that's a real headache. The one people believe to be Mythal's vallaslin turned out to be Falon'din's in DAI.

So basically, I don't trust the fanon when it comes to vallaslin designs that are unique to Origins. Is Tamlen wearing Dirthamen? I don't know.

[straykat]

I don't think I've ever heard of an angel called Mahariel. Is it a modified version of the original name?

As for Tamlen's vallaslin... that's a real headache. The one people believe to be Mythal's vallaslin turned out to be Falon'din's in DAI.

So basically, I don't trust the fanon when it comes to vallaslin designs that are unique to Origins. Is Tamlen wearing Dirthamen? I don't know.

 

It's not biblical, but it is Jewish/extra folklore. There's a whole gamut of angel names. Most ending the name "El" btw..

 

But Mary Kirby did name it specifically for that. She also named Tabris... the "angel of free will". Which is perfect, since the CE are more products of Fen'Harel.

 

I suspect Sera was named that way for similar reasons.

[Qun00]

Mary Kirby? But wasn't the Dalish origin written by David Gaider?

On another note, the -el sufix is pretty common for Tolkien elves too, like Galadriel.

[straykat]

Mary Kirby? But wasn't the Dalish origin written by David Gaider?

On another note, the -el sufix is pretty common for Tolkien elves too, like Galadriel.

 

He wrote it, but apparently she gave the elven surnames. I think he said this on the old boards.

 

Not sure about Surana though.

[ThomasBlaine]

You start off with Tamlen, who is sort of a Dirthamen symbol. He's got the Vallaslin, he's a sneaky little dude with his secrets. And he goes missing, much like the real Dirthamen. Mahariel (along with Merrill) are similar to Falon'Din, looking for the lost brother.

 

Realizing that Tamlen's Vallaslin are associated with Dirthamen really deepened his character for me. It's not just the sneaking and secrets. He recognizes written Elvish from studying the Keeper's remaining samples even though he's just a young hunter, is pretty knowledgable about the Dales and has a much better sense of the elves' history than the player character, is genuinely thrilled to see the remnants of elven civilization and spends the entire expedition into the ruins speculating on the meaning of everything he and Mahariel find, and is overall just so damn curious.

 

His recklessness and casual disregard for human lives always made him seem like something of a bonehead to me, and I was pleasently surprised to see him in a new light during my new canon playthrough.

[Qun00]

Assuming it even is Dirthamen's.

[straykat]

Assuming it even is Dirthamen's.

 

The DAI stuff are just... chalked up to art redesigns for me. No meaning to it necessarily.

 

As for DAO, I don't know who else it could be. The vallaslin he wears is like a book, with the pages spread out. It sounds like dirthamen to me, given the alternatives.

[straykat]

The one I think is the most iffy is the Falon/Din and Mythal tats. Not sure which is which.

 

I'm not even sure if Merrill is a Falon'Din counterpart or a Mythal one either. I even suspect she might've been the other choice for the Well of Sorrows, if they made that DA2 expansion.

 

....which would've been awesome.

[straykat]

Ugh... I'm so damned torn between CE and Dalish. I can't decide who my real "canon" is.

 

I think they're both the best origins though.

[Seraphim24]

Ugh... I'm so damned torn between CE and Dalish. I can't decide who my real "canon" is.

 

I think they're both the best origins though.

 

CE, to be honest.

 

Sylvanaerie hit the nail on the head there earlier on...

[straykat]

CE, to be honest.

 

Sylvanaerie hit the nail on the head there earlier on...

 

What'd she say?

[Seraphim24]

I dunno I think the city elf's is far more badass than any other.

 

Cailan: "So, I have always wanted to go walk in the Alienage, but my guards won't let me.  How are things there?"

City Elf: "I killed a noble who raped my cousin."

Cailan: 

 

Best.  Bioware.  Line.  Ever.  

 

Aside from the Smuggler in SWToR about the Mandelorian (whose name escapes me atm) invading the Esseles.  "So, if I kill him, I'll be famous?"

 

As for the Dalish origin, it's okay.  The scene with ghoul-Tamlen takes on a note of poignancy (especially if you RP he and your lady Dalish were sweethearts).  But still doesn't stack up the feels like the scene in the Gauntlet with Papa Cousland (at least for me).

 

For me the worst part of those kinds of scenes is the emotional gut punch they can cause the player who's really getting into the story, and the lack of recognition from the other NPCs in the game.  "Oh, saw your dead friend?  Well, let's just move on.  Places to go, people to see..."

 

It's basically one of those rare times with a really messed up situations where you kind of get to sort of stick it to someone also afterwards.

 

The problem with DE is they never play up the rebel thing beyond the mere notion of independence... it's basically monotone.

[straykat]

Oh, I agree.. there isn't enough Dalish content.

 

As for the Ghoul Tamlen, you know if you follow the default quest order, his scene shows up around the time you finish Nature of the Beast. And that's also when Leliana sings In Uthenera. That SHOULD have been her reaction to Tamlen too.. but I like to headcanon it that way. Since they play her song at the end of the Dalish origin too, seeing that you're leaving his funeral.

[ThomasBlaine]

It's basically one of those rare times with a really messed up situations where you kind of get to sort of stick it to someone also afterwards.

 

The problem with DE is they never play up the rebel thing beyond the mere notion of independence... it's basically monotone.

 

What rebel thing?

 

I'm getting a kick out of my Warden being a rather disinterested stranger to human customs and civilization, not him having a beef with domineering human lords because of ancient history. The Dalish aren't freedom fighters, they're just living like they have for hundreds of years in a completely seperate culture that's really rich and interesting..

[Seraphim24]

What rebel thing?

 

I'm getting a kick out of my Warden being a rather disinterested stranger to civilization, not him having a beef human nobles because of ancient history.

 

Well the issue is the humans that don't feel the same way,

[straykat]

Leliana's Song btw is the big reason I like Leliana/Mahariel pairings. I know Ali and Morrigan are popular, but whatever!