363 réponses à ce sujet

[Seraphim24]

Oh, I agree.. there isn't enough Dalish content.

 

As for the Ghoul Tamlen, you know if you follow the default quest order, his scene shows up around the time you finish Nature of the Beast. And that's also when Leliana sings In Uthenera. That SHOULD have been her reaction to Tamlen too.. but I like to headcanon it that way. Since they play her song at the end of the Dalish origin too, seeing that you're leaving his funeral.

 

Jeez! you put so much detail and focus into your playthroughs Straykat-chan!

 

Leliana's Song btw is the big reason I like Leliana/Mahariel pairings. I know Ali and Morrigan are popular, but whatever!

 

Tell em! Go against the grain!

[straykat]

Jeez! you put so much detail and focus into your playthroughs Straykat-chan!

 

It wasn't intentional Sylvia talked about those tearful moments (like Bryce in the temple), and that was one that naturally happened for me.. Now I can't think of her song any differently.

[ThomasBlaine]

Well the issue is the humans that don't feel the same way,

 

What humans think of them is a matter of indifference to the average Dalish elf. Deciding that the focal point of every elf's personal story must be the fight against suppressive humans is to pigeon-hole them. The Dalish have an interesting and powerful culture all of their own, and don't feel that they owe human society any particular attention.

[Qun00]

Indeed. Human oppression rarely is a factor in a Dalish elf's daily life. City elves, however, live and breathe it.

Oh, I agree.. there isn't enough Dalish content.
 
As for the Ghoul Tamlen, you know if you follow the default quest order, his scene shows up around the time you finish Nature of the Beast. And that's also when Leliana sings In Uthenera. That SHOULD have been her reaction to Tamlen too.. but I like to headcanon it that way. Since they play her song at the end of the Dalish origin too, seeing that you're leaving his funeral.

That's a great coincidence.

I also headcanon that she sang it out of sympathy to Mahariel's loss.

[straykat]

I find the Dalish interesting, but I also played them slowly questioning their culture and history.

 

It's kind of funny that I do a similar thing for the Inquisitor (human). They're kind of similar in their own way.

 

 

I see this happening with a lot of characters possibly. Like maybe a Cousland who hooks up with Morrigan... and a quizzy Elf who embraces some Andrastianism. I reserved a traditional Dalish rogue just in case I want to do a human quizzy warrior one day (and embraces the Herald thing). This would be more straightforward, I guess.

[Seraphim24]

Don't forget the Mage Elf! You can uh... vaguely reference to people at times that you are an Elf.......... like.............. three times or so.

[straykat]

Don't forget the Mage Elf! You can uh... vaguely reference to people at times that you are an Elf.......... like.............. three times or so.

 

Yeah, I Iike it... It's just more magey than elfy, as far as general feel goes.

[ThomasBlaine]

Don't forget the Mage Elf! You can uh... vaguely reference to people at times that you are an Elf.......... like.............. three times or so.

 

Having been spared life in an actual Alienage and had no contact with Ferelden society since s/he was a child, I would if anything imagine the Mage Elf to feel more strongly about the Chantry than the nobility. And even then being a Circle Mage is a much better deal for an elf than a human, considering the alternative.

[straykat]

My goal actually is to get the rest of society in line with the Circle, when it comes to elves. I'm sure there's some issues, but that's how everything should be.

[ThomasBlaine]

My goal actually is to get the rest of society in line with the Circle, when it comes to elves. I'm sure there's some issues, but that's how everything should be.

 

Your goal? As in, your character's goal?  Or what you're trying to do with your entire series playthrough?

 

Rehabilitating Thedas isn't on my own agenda, I just like to play cool and interesting characters who act according to their natures in an awesome setting. Chaos is a ladder to great roleplaying experiences in addition to power, I believe.

[straykat]

Your goal? As in, your character's goal?  Or what you're trying to do with your entire series playthrough?

 

Rehabilitating Thedas isn't on my own agenda, I just like to play cool and interesting characters who act according to their natures in an awesome setting. Chaos is a ladder to great roleplaying experiences in addition to power, I believe.

 

Yeah, I'll be happy if I get to improve some of those things in the entire series, I mean.

 

Not in some detailed way.. just a nod to it. I already can do this with Briala and Leliana. I would say the story of Southern Thedas is pretty much over now. There's no way they could give me more details about it.

[Beregond5]

It's my favourite. In fact, Dalish is my Canon warden. Since they're meant to be isolated from the rest of the world, it offers many chances for questions and learning the DA lore along with them, adding to the immersion. Also, I think they're the ones with the most possibilities of characterization. They can be incredibly racist to humans, or very openminded. They can be honourable or a wild card. Straight arrows or sarcastic. Not to mention that there's something incredibly satisfying about seeing people treating them very mistrustfully at first, only to earn people's respect through your actions. You can get that with the other origins, that's true, but then, there's also the Eluvian. If you play all three games, it's cool to see the particular element having such a prominent part in them.

Cough, got carried away there. Apologies...

[straykat]

It's my favourite. In fact, Dalish is my Canon warden. Since they're meant to be isolated from the rest of the world, it offers many chances for questions and learning the DA lore along with them, adding to the immersion. Also, I think they're the ones with the most possibilities of characterization. They can be incredibly racist to humans, or very openminded. They can be honourable or a wild card. Straight arrows or sarcastic. Not to mention that there's something incredibly satisfying about seeing people treating them very mistrustfully at first, only to earn people's respect through your actions. You can get that with the other origins, that's true, but then, there's also the Eluvian. If you play all three games, it's cool to see the particular element having such a prominent part in them.

Cough, got carried away there. Apologies...

 

The Eluvian is interesting, true... like a bookend, right?

 

Although my main Dalish sacrificed.. I'm not one to join (or even romance) Morrigan. But it's good that the Eluvian keeps popping up. In fact, I kind of view Duncan's sword as the opposite symbol for my Warden. His rejection of those things and acceptance of a new life.

 

On a sidenote, it's kind of cool that Duncan's sword also pops up in the CE origin, in a different way.

[ThomasBlaine]

The Eluvian is interesting, true... like a bookend, right?

 

Although my main Dalish sacrificed.. I'm not one to join (or even romance) Morrigan. But it's good that the Eluvian keeps popping up. In fact, I kind of view Duncan's sword as the opposite symbol for my Warden. His rejection of those things and acceptance of a new life.

 

On a sidenote, it's kind of cool that Duncan's sword also pops up in the CE origin, in a different way.

 

I especially like the irony of the Warden finding that first Eluvian, seeing it destroyed and then dying without the tiniest idea of what they are or how important they become later, while still getting tied a little closer to the overall story by association. It has a certain Game of Thrones feel, that total disregard for characters' personal arcs and potential loose threads in their lives when determining their ultimate fates.

[Beregond5]

The Eluvian is interesting, true... like a bookend, right?
 
Although my main Dalish sacrificed.. I'm not one to join (or even romance) Morrigan. But it's good that the Eluvian keeps popping up. In fact, I kind of view Duncan's sword as the opposite symbol for my Warden. His rejection of those things and acceptance of a new life.
 
On a sidenote, it's kind of cool that Duncan's sword also pops up in the CE origin, in a different way.

In a way, yes. This becomes more prominent if you play Witch Hunt, if you want to keep it in just the Warden's story - his adventure started and ended with an Eluvian involved.

I haven't performed the sacrifice with the particular warden, but it's definitely tragic. Then you've got Merril trying to fix the thing that, in a way, killed her friend and then you've got Solas using the Eluvians as a means to achieve his own goal...

... If I didn't feel sorry for Zevran, I would have tried the US in the next playthrough. XD

[straykat]

In a way, yes. This becomes more prominent if you play Witch Hunt, if you want to keep it in just the Warden's story - his adventure started and ended with an Eluvian involved.

I haven't performed the sacrifice with the particular warden, but it's definitely tragic. Then you've got Merril trying to fix the thing that, in a way, killed her friend and then you've got Solas using the Eluvians as a means to achieve his own goal...

... If I didn't feel sorry for Zevran, I would have tried the US in the next playthrough. XD

 

I understand. Kind of torn on romanced Zev, since he's as much a wreck as Leliana. But he doesn't get the fleshed out story. My Leli became Divine and brought back Shartan... so there's some justice in that. Like she's honoring the Warden's memory and helps other elves.

 

My DC romanced Zev, but lived.

[Beregond5]

I understand. Kind of torn on romanced Zev, since he's as much a wreck as Leliana. But he doesn't get the fleshed out story. My Leli became Divine and brought back Shartan... so there's some justice in that. Like she's honoring the Warden's memory and helps other elves.
 
My DC romanced Zev, but lived.

Oh I didn't know that about Leliana, I always end up with Cassandra as the Divine. That's pretty cool.

[CosmicGnosis]

Does Mahariel feel more "real" than Amell? Despite being related to Hawke's formerly wealthy family in Kirkwall, Warden Amell isn't really discussed that much, and Hawke doesn't even react to the fact that his/her cousin ended the Fifth Blight. It seems that Merril and Marethari mention Mahariel quite a bit, though. Is this correct?

[Qun00]

Most of the time the Amell family is mentioned is during party banter.

However, Mahariel is brought up during on screen dialogue more often. That feels more satisfying and real, as you put it.

[Ghost Gal]

Don't forget the Mage Elf! You can uh... vaguely reference to people at times that you are an Elf.......... like.............. three times or so.

 

Really? I played a city elf and mage elf back to back, and found that the mage elf received comments for being an elf roughly half as often as she received comments for being a mage.

 

Having been spared life in an actual Alienage and had no contact with Ferelden society since s/he was a child, I would if anything imagine the Mage Elf to feel more strongly about the Chantry than the nobility. And even then being a Circle Mage is a much better deal for an elf than a human, considering the alternative.

 

Or, one could look at it as just be another symptom of humans forcing their will on the elves. Surana has better access to history than any other Elven Warden (since city elves have forgotten everything and the Dalish records were destroyed when Halamshiral was sacked), so Surana could potentially know your people had a mage-friendly nation all their own before mage-hating humans sacked it and forced elves to conform to their religion and culture. Only humans can become nobles while of elves lead mostly impoverished peasant lives in alienages; only humans can become Chantry priests and Templars while elves (who were forced to convert in the first place) can pay tithes at best, get forced to live in a Circle under Templar supervision if mages at worst.

 

Human nobles = more power than elven peasants.

Human Templars = more power than elven mages.

 

My Surana saw a Circle as just another kind of Alienage, with Templars as just another kind of armored human pushing her kind around.

 

It's also kept vague as to how much grief Circle elves get for being elves, but you can tell Duncan you've received grief for being an elf, and Eadric is pretty bitter toward humans (which Amell can confirm by saying, "I don't take orders from elves"), so it's entirely possible you got grief for being an elf in the Circle; never mind outside it.

 

Personally, my Surana was just as invested in being elven and helping her people since elven society is more mage-friendly, so she felt it was her best interest to support her people having their culture restored. If being a mage and elven go together like peanutbutter and jelly, then let's make that sandwich. 

[ThomasBlaine]

Or, one could look at it as just be another symptom of humans forcing their will on the elves. Surana has better access to history than any other Elven Warden (since city elves have forgotten everything and the Dalish records were destroyed when Halamshiral was sacked), so Surana could potentially know your people had a mage-friendly nation all their own before mage-hating humans sacked it and forced elves to conform to their religion and culture. Only humans can become nobles while of elves lead mostly impoverished peasant lives in alienages; only humans can become Chantry priests and Templars while elves (who were forced to convert in the first place) can pay tithes at best, get forced to live in a Circle under Templar supervision if mages at worst.

 

Human nobles = more power than elven peasants.

Human Templars = more power than elven mages.

 

My Surana saw a Circle as just another kind of Alienage, with Templars as just another kind of armored human pushing her kind around.

 

It's also kept vague as to how much grief Circle elves get for being elves, but you can tell Duncan you've received grief for being an elf, and Eadric is pretty bitter toward humans (which Amell can confirm by saying, "I don't take orders from elves"), so it's entirely possible you got grief for being an elf in the Circle; never mind outside it.

 

Personally, my Surana was just as invested in being elven and helping her people since elven society is more mage-friendly, so she felt it was her best interest to support her people having their culture restored. If being a mage and elven go together like peanutbutter and jelly, then let's make that sandwich. 

 

You could definitely think about it that way. Personally, I think civilian armchair politics is too modern a phenomenon to imagine actually suppressed men and women in a medieval world going around thinking "These things are so unfair to my people! If I was the one making the decisions, we'd be..." rather than accepting the world order they've grown up in as the nature of things and channeling their grievances in ways less likely to get them punished and killed in the end. What convinced your elf that her political opinion had any right to exist in the first place?

 

I also doubt that the chantry, in their effort to eradicate elven culture, put anything about the elves of that period in the Circle library that wouldn't do grave offense to the word "records". If I'd read somewhere that my people had been repressed, ostracized and imprisoned for a thousand years, knowing none of the things we do now about the timeline of human evolution, I think I'd have taken that to mean that we were thoroughly crushed and destined for nothing more than that rather than be fired up by some notion of reclaiming ancient glory.

 

Also, in his/her defense, the Amell Warden is former Marcher nobility.

[straykat]

Elves have been rebelling for time immemorial. And the whole Chantry is founded on barbarians and elves going against a powerful empire. And that was over a thousand years before the DA games. If people were so dejected and saw themselves as meaningless pissants, then even Andraste wouldn't have existed. This isn't ancient China or Egypt. There's a little more dignity for individuals... it's incubating, but not non-existent.

 

I don't think the Chantry set out to eradicate elven culture though. Not originally. It's a mess, but it's complicated.

[ThomasBlaine]

Elves have been rebelling for time immemorial. And the whole Chantry is founded on barbarians and elves going against a powerful empire. And that was over a thousand years before the DA games. If people were so dejected and saw themselves as meaningless pissants, then even Andraste wouldn't have existed. This isn't ancient China or Egypt. There's a little more dignity for individuals... it's incubating, but not non-existent.

 

I don't think the Chantry set out to eradicate elven culture though. Not originally. It's a mess, but it's complicated.

 

I'm not saying rebellion doesn't exist, just that it doesn't come out of nowhere in so-called "certain individuals" and that the population is more "meaningless pissants" than fearless revolutionaries just waiting for their chance. Andraste's campaign could have started in any number of ways that didn't involve her miraculously waking up one day and deciding that enough was enough. Most likely one tribe or other was simply pushed too far and things escalated with one Tevinter official in a conflict of resources until the only choices for several tribes were destruction or full-scale rebellion and it became a war of survival which was then glorified as a war against tyranny. That's how most such conflicts have evolved in history.

 

You don't foul your own nest like that unless you're forced to, like Jowan, or given an offer too good to refuse, like Uldred. Self-preservation is a far more powerful instiinct than the desire to rise up against injustice. An elf who's just knuckling under, keeping her head down and trying to make the best of it all is much more plausible to me than a nobody who's just dying to go out there and change things despite being warm and fed and knowing next to nothing about life outside the Tower. How many people do you imagine truly believe that they can personally change the world even today when such ideas are actively encouraged in western cultures?

[kimgoold]

I always play as an Elf  (preferably a mage),  I loved this origin - I always play as a archer warrior for this origins (as I play on console so no mods for Dalish Mage) this is the most believable origins to me in the whole game. And encountering ghoul Tamlen was heart wrenching. It also seems to be the origins to have the most influence on story-lore thru DA2 and connection to characters (the Dalish HoF's clan/Merrill in DA2) and the future DA4 especially.

Considering all the Evanuris and elven lore in DAI playing as a Dalish character made the most sense story wise to me that gives the player a closer cultural connection to all three DA games.

[straykat]

I'm not saying rebellion doesn't exist, just that it doesn't come out of nowhere in so-called "certain individuals" and that the population is more "meaningless pissants" than fearless revolutionaries just waiting for their chance. Andraste's campaign could have started in any number of ways that didn't involve her miraculously waking up one day and deciding that enough was enough. Most likely one tribe or other was simply pushed too far and things escalated with one Tevinter official in a conflict of resources until the only choices for several tribes were destruction or full-scale rebellion and it became a war of survival which was then glorified as a war against tyranny. That's how most such conflicts have evolved in history.

 

You don't foul your own nest like that unless you're forced to, like Jowan, or given an offer too good to refuse, like Uldred. Self-preservation is a far more powerful instiinct than the desire to rise up against injustice. An elf who's just knuckling under, keeping her head down and trying to make the best of it all is much more plausible to me than a nobody who's just dying to go out there and change things despite being warm and fed and knowing next to nothing about life outside the Tower. How many people do you imagine truly believe that they can personally change the world even today, when such ideas are actively encouraged in western culture?

 

Yeah, but we're talking about heroes (or villains, for that matter), during hectic times. It's supposed to be interesting... just on a gameplay level alone. We're not supposed to have our heads sunk down. That'd be boring.

 

Ferelden in particular is ripe for it though. It's got a long tradition of rebels (not just Andraste, but warring tribes throughout time...along with Maric and Loghain recently). And when you open that door, you eventually open the door for others as well. Be it mages or elves. Loghain especially is the beginning of egalitarianism.