363 réponses à ce sujet

[Qun00]

You know, it takes a great deal of trust for a Dalish Warden to hear Alistair joke about how s/he looks like a savage when eating and not raise an eyebrow.

[ThomasBlaine]

Yeah, but we're talking about heroes (or villains, for that matter), during hectic times. It's supposed to be interesting... just on a gameplay level alone. We're not supposed to have our heads sunk down. That'd be boring.

 

Ferelden in particular is ripe for it though. It's got a long tradition of rebels (not just Andraste, but warring tribes throughout time...along with Maric and Loghain recently). And when you open that door, you eventually open the door for others as well. Be it mages or elves. Loghain especially is the beginning of egalitarianism.

 

Well, I like to play people. Loghain is what he is because his mother was raped and killed in front of him, as in because of trauma, not political dissatisfaction. Maric was raised to be a symbol of the fight against the Orlesians, not being a rebel would have been a true rebellion for him. Call me crazy, but the mage Warden having become a closet revolutionary on behalf of a people they haven't had contact with since early childhood by reading censured historical texts in an environment where defiance can get you lobotomized just doesn't sound quite right.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Maric was raised to be a symbol of the fight against the Orlesians, not being a rebel would have been a true rebellion for him.

Not to mention probably fatal, because no matter how submissive a client king he offered to be the Orlesian Empire probably would have gone with Meghren instead. Which makes it that much less impressive that he rebelled against Orlais, since it was almost certainly that or die.

[straykat]

Well, I like to play people. Loghain is what he is because his mother was raped and killed in front of him, as in because of trauma, not political dissatisfaction. Maric was raised to be a symbol of the fight against the Orlesians, not being a rebel would have been a true rebellion for him. Call me crazy, but the mage Warden having become a closet revolutionary on behalf of a people they haven't had contact with since early childhood by reading censured historical texts in an environment where defiance can get you lobotomized just doesn't sound quite right.

 

I don't understand. Everyone has personal motivations. Nothing comes out of a vacuum or sheer will. That isn't exclusive to anyone.

 

The whole point of Dragon Age though is that there's something in the air. There's a lot of new things in this age (and not just Dragons). The writers intentionally set the stage for a lot of things to be knocked down or changed. Now we're at the point where an Inquisition is around for the first time in a thousand years too. And it consists of many normal people wanting changes.

 

 

I'll grant that the other post above could tone it down a bit.. this should be a growing process. Not some instant thing. But what do you expect to do in these games? I prefer things more down to earth myself, but this is high fantasy. Which is like the least mature type of fantasy. And the furthest from historical fiction. Try to have fun or you'll go miserable from all the stupid.

 

Secondly, it's not even approximating medieval life anyways. There's a bit of Renaissance type awareness going on, more individual freedoms (and possibly more massive shakeups like Luther or something, in the works). It's not the Age of Farmers With Their Heads Sunk Down.

[Qun00]

"What do you think about the Warden Loghain story?"

[ThomasBlaine]

You know, it takes a great deal of trust for a Dalish Warden to hear Alistair joke about how s/he looks like a savage when eating and not raise an eyebrow.

 

I don't know. It doesn't really seem like the early game would cause a Dalish elf to feel ashamed of not conforming to Ferelden customs, much less table manners. If nothing else, s/he doesn't have much reason to expect tact from Alistair in the first place.

 

My Dalish elf used his otherness to his advantage, effectively hiding behind his vallaslin and fine armor and weapons and confident, shameless behaviour for an elf. It forced shemlen to look at him as something exotic and unpredictable and potentially dangerous so they wouldn't start thinking of him as just another knife-ears even for a second, or he'd lose all authority. Pretending that he was never intimidated by human society in the slightest and never felt weird or out of place was pretty much what kept him alive, from his perspective.

 

And really, it's the shemlen who drag the Dalish Warden into their society, not the other way around. Why would s/he owe them respect for shemlen dinner etiquette?

[Qun00]

I'd suspect that bit of dialogue is the same for all races, but still comically tactless.

And feeling uncomfortable in the middle of so many humans is inevitable, but I agree that a smart Dalish elf will try to shrug it off and move on as quickly as possible.

[straykat]

I kind of see them as a tougher, but equally naive Merrill. They brush off some things.. and occasionally show ignorance, but in an innocent way. I'd like to think they took after Marathari when it comes to blood magic though. They don't have the hubris or knowledge of a mage.. they're just hunters. They don't know any better. They learned from their elders.

 

 

Regardless of being surrounding by humans, our companions mostly good folks. There's little reason to get on Alistair's/Leliana/Wynne's case. Not for too long at least.

[Qun00]

Speaking of ignorance, I really try to avoid dialogue that implies knowledge a Dalish elf can't possibly have.

Like in Ostagar, when you meet the prisoner. How would the Warden even know what "deserting" means? S/He may even understand synonyms, but not the specific word for a soldier that abandons his duties.

[straykat]

I know what you mean, but I haven't thought of that in the prisoner's case. That works though.

 

I figured my character sympathized with him because Duncan just conscripted my Dalish too.... and he was kind of doing it by force. I like to think Duncan could've kicked my character's ass.... at least back then.

[ThomasBlaine]

I know what you mean, but I haven't thought of that in the prisoner's case. That works though.

 

I figured my character sympathized with him because Duncan just conscripted my Dalish too.... and he was kind of doing it by force. I like to think Duncan could've kicked my character's ass.... at least back then.

 

Do we have any idea how Dalish elves deal with thievery or violence within the clan? They all seem pretty focused on protecting and serving the community, but things like that never happening is pretty hard to swallow. The Dalish Warden can't be totally unfamiliar with the concept of crime and punishment.

 

I'd like to imagine an idyllic system where troublesome elves are treated on a case-by-case basis by the Keeper, getting to the root of their issues and trying to reintegrate them into the clan, and sending them to a new one if they really aren't fitting in, everybody pulling together to preserve the fellowship and do right by their brother or sister. It would seem in line with the feel I get from them in Origins. Also rather hard to swallow though. There must be bad seeds every once in a while, and no real society has ever found a way to deal with it perfectly.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Do we have any idea how Dalish elves deal with thievery or violence within the clan? They all seem pretty focused on protecting and serving the community, but things like that never happening is pretty hard to swallow. The Dalish Warden can't be totally unfamiliar with the concept of crime and punishment.

 

I'd like to imagine an idyllic system where troublesome elves are treated on a case-by-case basis by the Keeper, getting to the root of their issues and trying to reintegrate them into the clan and sending them to a new one if they really aren't fitting in, everybody pulling together to preserve the fellowship and do right by their brother or sister. It would seem in line with the feel I get from them in Origins. Also rather hard to swallow though. There must be bad seeds every once in a while, and no real society has ever found a way to deal with it perfectly.

I think you're right about their preferred options. As to what they do if that's not feasible, they probably go for exile, like what happens to Merrill. As a very last resort they might even kill a clan member who gives them literally no other options.

[straykat]

I always thought the Dalish hate thieves.... it's an important basis on why they're so hostile. Even the first poster for DAO was about thieving. So I doubt they take kindly from other elves this way. Even the first intro sequence is feeding your paranoia about those humans running in the forest. And DAO ends with another thief that Ariane wants to kill: Morrigan.

 

 

 

 

[straykat]

On a sidenote, I thought it was kind of cool to make parallels with Pol and my Dalish warden. He drops his wily ways and tries becoming Dalish. While mine slowly stop placing such importance on his culture and learns to forgive humans...and has fun too.

[ThomasBlaine]

I always thought the Dalish hate thieves.... it's an important basis on why they're so hostile. Even the first poster for DAO was about thieving. So I doubt they take kindly from other elves this way. Even the first intro sequence is feeding your paranoia about those humans running in the forest. And DAO ends with another thief that Ariane wants to kill: Morrigan.

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously they're paranoid about shemlen coming to steal from them, but I was wondering how they deal with their own criminals internally. One Dalish elf stealing from another. Considering how closely knit and universally codependent a clan is, too much mistrust because of something like that could rip it completely apart. Their way of life just isn't viable unless they have a way to handle crime effectively.

[straykat]

I would imagine banishment. They could probably afford that. And maybe it could even be temporary, but that's just me head canoning I think they're biased on other thieves definitely (humans). At least the average Dalish like my Warden or Velanna. They're both self righteous murderers..... at first at least.

[straykat]

I think I'm gonna reroll a Dalish rogue again...I thought I was done with this. lol

 

I've kind of been focused on warriors, but it feels kind of odd ever since they made archers rogue only.

 

 

To further answer the question above, since they're a hunting culture, I especially think they'd look unkindly on thieving. Forget their beefs with humans.. they would eschew this sort of cheating or laziness. But perhaps they could still forgive someone like that, especially if you made amends (or died trying).

[christophpfaff]

I just started to play the game and instantly fell in love with the Dalish Rogue storyline, although it is the only one i have tried so far. Since i do not understand or care

 

about all the power gaming elements, i think a Dalish Hunter makes perfect sense from a role playing point of view. Good with bows, proficient with traps, limited

 

knowledge or herbs, and the use of daggers. I was a bit confused with the preinstalled knowledge of poisons. That doesn't seem to make that much sense, but i think they

 

would never resolve to stealing, unless they are corrupted by the rest of the society, or deem it necessary to fight the blight. There cannot really be stealing amongst them!

 

The way i understand their culture is that there is not really personal ownership of any kind. The elf you can buy equipment from gladly renders his grandfather`s bow to

 

you...

[straykat]

That's a good point about the bow..

 

 

Yeah, poison isn't exactly something a hunter would use, but all rogues get a point in it. Makes more sense for the commoner dwarf or city elf. Or any noble actually.

 

Still useful to have one point though... this way you can use bombs.

[ThomasBlaine]

I just started to play the game and instantly fell in love with the Dalish Rogue storyline, although it is the only one i have tried so far. Since i do not understand or care

 

about all the power gaming elements, i think a Dalish Hunter makes perfect sense from a role playing point of view. Good with bows, proficient with traps, limited

 

knowledge or herbs, and the use of daggers. I was a bit confused with the preinstalled knowledge of poisons. That doesn't seem to make that much sense, but i think they

 

would never resolve to stealing, unless they are corrupted by the rest of the society, or deem it necessary to fight the blight. There cannot really be stealing amongst them!

 

The way i understand their culture is that there is not really personal ownership of any kind. The elf you can buy equipment from gladly renders his grandfather`s bow to

 

you...

 

I don't buy that. At some point two people will want the personal use of the same thing, and it will occur to one of them to take it from the other. That's not "corrupted by the rest of society", that's just how people work, evolved from many, many thousands of years of primate history where "property" was basically what you could bully or beg of other people, find or create yourself, and then defend.

 

As for poison, maybe the hunter's expertise doesn't come from application so much as avoidance? Simply knowing which herbs are dangerous and useless for medicine or cooking and should be left alone. And how not to prepare ingredients to make them safe for ingestion. 

[straykat]

I don't buy that. At some point two people will want the personal use of the same thing, and it will occur to one of them to take it from the other. That's not "corrupted by the rest of society", that's just how people work, evolved from many, many thousands of years of primate history where "property" was basically what you could bully or beg of other people, find or create yourself, and then defend.

 

As for poison, maybe the hunter's expertise doesn't come from application so much as avoidance? Simply knowing which herbs are dangerous and useless for medicine or cooking and should be left alone. And how not to prepare ingredients to make them safe for ingestion. 

 

Not everyone stopped evolving at the primate level though. lol. Many communities have different ideals they often aspire to. That's what I got from Master Ilen.

 

"My hand is as your hand. We are all the same clan."

 

It's practically their religion.

[HeliosDisciple]

And as we all know, people are never lax on following their religion's tenets.

[straykat]

Well, less so when it comes to small communities. Especially when it's tied to survival.

 

Once you step out, totally different story.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Except for humans, because implying that humans of different skin colors and ethnicities are entirely different sub races that are genetically predisposed to being this way or thst way (like pale ones being drawn to sedentary "civilized" society while tan ones are naturally inclined toward tribal forest life and/or rural isolation) is bad, but doing it with literally every other race is fine.

Yeah, I know they're fictional races, but I find it a tad off that the pale members of each race are shown to embrace "civilized" metropolitan society, the tan ones of each race are savage and/ isolationist (wood elves in the woods, golden elves and golden dwarves living in haughty racial isolation, etc), and the black ones are inclined toward hostility and/or extreme unfriendlyiendliness to outsiders (dark elves, dark dwarves, deep gnomes, etc).

 

Whether you like it or not, racial differences exist in real life. Some groups of people are on average simply better than others or require less training than others to be good at some things. For example, certain group of Africans are on average more athletically capable than the rest of us. Likewise, East Asians and certain tribes of Jewish people have, on average, higher IQ scores than the rest of us. Furthermore, in fields such as medicine, it is very well known that there are racial differences in response to treatments of certain drugs. It is neither bad nor racist to say this, it simply is. Its really weird how humans would happily discuss racial differences between other animals but when it comes to human ape, those differences are suddenly bad or offensive or taboo instead of being part of reality.

 

As for the Elves of Tamriel, I have no idea what you are even on about. The only pale Elves in Tamriel are Snow Elves and they were driven to extinction by the Nords that they provoked and the Dwemer (Deep Elves) that betrayed them. Also, certain Bosmer (Wood Elves) in Valenwood (their homeland) sects practice the Green Pact yet on the whole, they are the most numerous, most peaceful and most accepted Elven race in Tamriel. As for the Altmer (High Elves), their haughty and pompous nature is explained by the fact that they are the direct descendants of the Aedric gods and possess long lifespan as well as strong magical potential. Lastly, the Dunmer (Dark Elves) are not black, they are grey. If you are looking for blacks in the African sense in Tamriel, Redguard's the way to go.

[springacres]

That's a good point about the bow..

 

 

Yeah, poison isn't exactly something a hunter would use, but all rogues get a point in it. Makes more sense for the commoner dwarf or city elf. Or any noble actually.

 

Still useful to have one point though... this way you can use bombs.

Actually, poison could easily be something a hunter would find useful.  Poison tipped arrows would bring down prey faster.  Same with poisoned traps.  I think it makes sense for a hunter to know about poisons.  They might not use them as much as a Brosca, but I feel like they'd still have a working knowledge.