363 ответов в этой теме

[straykat]

One of my only complaints of the origin is you have to initiate most of the dialogue. It doesn't flow with the overall narrative. There's interesting things to hear though. With other origins, you're mostly going to be guided to get most of the dialogue automatically.

[Qun00]

The whole Dalish origin is not great, it just a lame story to begin with, you and your bf/buddy exploring ancient ruin in a cave, found a cursed mirror, and suddenly a stanger come offering you a cure for the curse, claiming it is the only way to save you from the curse

As a Dalish, i have no motivation to become a Grey Warden other than to cure myself, so in the long run as a Dalish, i don't really care about everything else. I mean not like i have any oath to fulfil (Mage), i don't do any crimes i must get away with by being Grey Warden (City Elf, Dwarf Commoner, Mage), i don't have any mortal enemy i want to seek and take revenge (Human Noble, Dwarf Noble)...so other than klling Darkspawn and done with it, as a Dalish i really don't have any motivation at all.

And the whole game, there is no quest related to Dalish Warden personally, even the Dalish quests is not related personally, not like other origins where the quests will relate with them...like Dwarf Noble/Commoner with Orzamar politic, Human Noble with human politic, Mage with Circle problem, City Elf with Alienage problem...Dalish have nothing related to him/her, so playing as Dalish warden really feel detached from everything

That's an odd distinction you're making there. Why would joining the Order to escape punishment be a better motivation? You're doing it to save your skin, just the same as the Dalish origin.

Also, the snarky replies to Cailan ("I'm no friend of yours, human lord") and the Chantry priest at Ostagar take on an added level of badassery for Dalish Wardens.

Snarky is the wrong word for it. There is no intended humor.

[DebatableBubble]

As for the Dalish origin, it's okay.  The scene with ghoul-Tamlen takes on a note of poignancy (especially if you RP he and your lady Dalish were sweethearts).  But still doesn't stack up the feels like the scene in the Gauntlet with Papa Cousland (at least for me).
 
For me the worst part of those kinds of scenes is the emotional gut punch they can cause the player who's really getting into the story, and the lack of recognition from the other NPCs in the game.  "Oh, saw your dead friend?  Well, let's just move on.  Places to go, people to see..."

Seeing Papa Cousland always makes me sad. Doesn't Trian show up for a Dwarf Noble? I remember doing that once and was also sad.

[Ghost Gal]

As for the Dalish origin, it's okay.  The scene with ghoul-Tamlen takes on a note of poignancy (especially if you RP he and your lady Dalish were sweethearts).  But still doesn't stack up the feels like the scene in the Gauntlet with Papa Cousland (at least for me).

 

I don't think that's an entirely fair comparison since you can ALSO encounter Tamlen in the Gauntlet, not just the ghoul on the road. =/

 

The Gauntlet is the place you encounter the most important people from your past who died, or you felt you failed in some way. Depending on when you go to the Gauntlet, you encounter Tamlen's spirit before you encounter the ghoul. And at that point, you don't know what happened to him: He disappeared, and was presumed dead. You went looking for him, but couldn't find him in time and had to move on to save your own life. There's a lack of closure in that; you don't know if he's dead or alive, if he's still out there suffering, if you could have found him if you'd just tried harder, if he blamed you (or still blames you) for leaving him, etc.

 

I think encountering Tamlen's spirit at the Gauntlet is just as powerful as any other relative from any other origin. In fact, in a way it's even more so because you don't have closure with him. Tragic as Papa Cousland's death was, you know exactly what happened to him: he died that night. You got to say good bye to him as he lay dying on the ground, he told you he loved you and he was proud of you and he supported you becoming a Grey Warden just before you left, and he accepted his death with grace. With Tamlen, he disappeared so quickly and so suddenly (the last words you ever heard were, "Help! I can't look away!" then there was a flash of light, then you woke days later in your camp with him gone), and you have no idea if he's alive or dead or worse, if you could have done something more or different to save him, if he blamed you or does blame you for leaving him.

 

I think Tamlen's spirit in the Gauntlet is powerful because in the midst of this mystery and confusion, Tamlen's "spirit" seems to come and tell you what you need to hear to gain closure. That he's fine, he doesn't blame you for leaving, you did what you had to do, etc. My Dalish hunter was autistic as hell and she wept like a baby

 

... And then you encounter his ghoul on the road, and know the Gauntlet lied, and you feel even more wretched that something so horrible happened to your childhood friend (possible love if female), and you had been powerless to save him.

 

I wouldn't discount that so blithely.

 

For me the worst part of those kinds of scenes is the emotional gut punch they can cause the player who's really getting into the story, and the lack of recognition from the other NPCs in the game.  "Oh, saw your dead friend?  Well, let's just move on.  Places to go, people to see..."

 

To be fair, that's present with nearly every origin and encounter.

 

"Wow, your father was in one of those cages full of elves that Loghain was going to sell to Tevinter...? Whelp, time to take these documents back to the Landsmeet."

 

"Wow, Broodmothers are created by captured women, and all Grey Wardens (including women) are expected to go into the Deep Roads fighting darkspawn when they die. You could potentially be captured and turned into a Broodmother too... whelp, no one lives forever. Onward!"

 

Not to mention lots of people feel the Cousland Warden breaks immersion because everyone spends so much time kissing your butt during the origin that they expect, as they walk around, for everyone to instantly recognize that you're a Cousland and shower you with pity.

 

That's just how it rolls this game.

[DeathWalksBehindYou]

Seeing Papa Cousland always makes me sad. Doesn't Trian show up for a Dwarf Noble? I remember doing that once and was also sad.

It’s been a while since I played that bit. I can’t remember if it’s Trian or Endrin.

[DebatableBubble]

The ghoul!Tamlen encounter can happen before going to the Temple. The requirement to trigger the attack at camp is to complete two or three main quests, I think.

Despite my feelings towards the Dalish, I'm not undermining what you said, fyi.

[cindercatz]

Dalish has a lot of advantages to it that make it the best "Warden" story, IMO.  For one, it's the only in the game that really makes the character's "personal" story focused on the Darkspawn as well.  Cousland loses everything to Howe, Aeducan to Bhelen, etc, but "Mahariel's enemy" is also the enemy of the game as a whole.  It's a pure focus on how the Blight ruins lives, and on stopping it.  Mahariel's also the greatest outsider character out of all the other origins.  Everyone else gets to go home again, however briefly, but even when you meet the Dalish, they aren't Mahariel's Dalish.  This makes Mahariel a pretty effective avatar, IMO, for a character in a brand new game series, where in many ways the character and the player are learning about the setting together.

That's exactly why it's the least effective imo. My Dalish Warden was the only one that remained wistful, unfulfilled the entire game. I sent him off to find his clan again for the epilogue, but that's not much payoff.

 

OP, The Origin itself is great, but it's the least supported by the rest of the game.

 

Merril mentions them in DA2, but not like I'd hope. They actually seemed fairly close in the origin. She can play one of the main two roles in it as a companion character. So I do recommend a playthrough for its own sake, but don't expect the same level of depth in the rest of the game, unfortunately.

 

It is the same eluvian that Merrill gets obsessed with in DA2, so there's that as well. I was pretty disappointed my Warden apparently hadn't spent much time back with his clan, since that was his driving personal goal throughout DA:O. Actually, I was very disappointed, so I don't feel their later appearance really does much for a Dalish playthrough. Felt tacked on to what all the other worldstates get anyway, barely referenced. Almost salt in the wound. But at least they're mentioned at all. :-/ 

 

Soo.. Yeah. Very worth checking out, but not very fulfilling as compared to the others so far, in slightly wider context.

[cindercatz]

I'm not quite sure what it is about the Dalish Origin that people find so lacking. However, it does make up for whatever the issue is with Witch Hunt and DA2. You just feel glad for choosing it.

And for all the so called greatness of the human noble origin, I thought that meeting Tamlen as a ghoul was more heart wrenching than the overused dead parents setup.

The HN's strengths are really about its strong ties into the main story. The heart strings bits for me, playing male, were really right at the start with the elven servant girl, and then maturing the character talking with Wynne about what kind of ruler you would be. That, and responsibility in the love and sex stories, how the romances would play out, that all took on a different tenor.

 

I'm kind of like you with the Cousland parents though. I don't even really remember them. Just what Howe did to the family as a whole. The trials 'ghost', I really remember the elves' and dwarves' scenes a lot better. I remember his cook and his chantry sister more than the parents in that origin.

[straykat]

The HN's strengths are really about its strong ties into the main story. The heart strings bits for me, playing male, were really right at the start with the elven servant girl, and then maturing the character talking with Wynne about what kind of ruler you would be. That, and responsibility in the love and sex stories, how the romances would play out, that all took on a different tenor.

 

I'm kind of like you with the Cousland parents though. I don't even really remember them. Just what Howe did to the family as a whole. The trials 'ghost', I really remember the elves' and dwarves' scenes a lot better. I remember his cook and his chantry sister more than the parents in that origin.

 

I always liked the Cousland mom (and Leandra later). Even more now knowing she was a pirate.

 

Tamlen did make me sad though. Just leaving the clan in the beginning made me sad.

[springacres]

Snarky is the wrong word for it. There is no intended humor.

Now that I think about it, you're right.  Blunt, arrogant, and (from Cailan's perspective) uppity are adjectives that fit better than snarky.

[sylvanaerie]

I don't think that's an entirely fair comparison since you can ALSO encounter Tamlen in the Gauntlet, not just the ghoul on the road. =/

 

The Gauntlet is the place you encounter the most important people from your past who died, or you felt you failed in some way. Depending on when you go to the Gauntlet, you encounter Tamlen's spirit before you encounter the ghoul. And at that point, you don't know what happened to him: He disappeared, and was presumed dead. You went looking for him, but couldn't find him in time and had to move on to save your own life. There's a lack of closure in that; you don't know if he's dead or alive, if he's still out there suffering, if you could have found him if you'd just tried harder, if he blamed you (or still blames you) for leaving him, etc.

 

I think encountering Tamlen's spirit at the Gauntlet is just as powerful as any other relative from any other origin. In fact, in a way it's even more so because you don't have closure with him. Tragic as Papa Cousland's death was, you know exactly what happened to him: he died that night. You got to say good bye to him as he lay dying on the ground, he told you he loved you and he was proud of you and he supported you becoming a Grey Warden just before you left, and he accepted his death with grace. With Tamlen, he disappeared so quickly and so suddenly (the last words you ever heard were, "Help! I can't look away!" then there was a flash of light, then you woke days later in your camp with him gone), and you have no idea if he's alive or dead or worse, if you could have done something more or different to save him, if he blamed you or does blame you for leaving him.

 

I think Tamlen's spirit in the Gauntlet is powerful because in the midst of this mystery and confusion, Tamlen's "spirit" seems to come and tell you what you need to hear to gain closure. That he's fine, he doesn't blame you for leaving, you did what you had to do, etc. My Dalish hunter was autistic as hell and she wept like a baby

 

... And then you encounter his ghoul on the road, and know the Gauntlet lied, and you feel even more wretched that something so horrible happened to your childhood friend (possible love if female), and you had been powerless to save him.

 

I wouldn't discount that so blithely.

 

 

 

 

To be fair, that's present with nearly every origin and encounter.

 

"Wow, your father was in one of those cages full of elves that Loghain was going to sell to Tevinter...? Whelp, time to take these documents back to the Landsmeet."

 

"Wow, Broodmothers are created by captured women, and all Grey Wardens (including women) are expected to go into the Deep Roads fighting darkspawn when they die. You could potentially be captured and turned into a Broodmother too... whelp, no one lives forever. Onward!"

 

Not to mention lots of people feel the Cousland Warden breaks immersion because everyone spends so much time kissing your butt during the origin that they expect, as they walk around, for everyone to instantly recognize that you're a Cousland and shower you with pity.

 

That's just how it rolls this game.

 

As I said it was how it felt to me.  Gameplay experience may change for others, but I felt the other scenes in the gauntlet fell flat in comparison to the Cousland's, especially since there is a lot of guilt tied up in that.  Unless your PC eggs him on, which would give 'stupid' a whole new level of hell, Tamlen led himself to his own doom and nearly the PC as well, had Duncan not been on hand to pull the Mahariel's tail out of the snare.  Not quite the same as being betrayed and then having everyone you know and love slaughtered by an old family friend (Howe).  Or having your cousin kidnapped and raped and your fiance and bridesmaid slaughtered in front of your eyes.  Or being framed for the murder of your brother by your other brother.  Crap happens in all the origins.  Tamlen's isn't an isolated incident.  But it is something he brought on himself, not was done to him.

 

Also, I just didn't find the Dalish origin integrated well into the game.  I had a lot more fun with the City Elf origin.  Or playing a Surana (because of the combo of mage and elf lines you get from NPCs).  The clan you encounter in the game who has been having werewolf troubles isn't even your clan, and they treat you only slightly better than your companions.  At best, the Dalish offers a 'stranger in a strange land experience' to the game, but you can also get that with a young mage or dwarf PC.

 

For me the Dalish come off as entitled, and arrogant and downright racist, looking down their noses not only at humans and dwarves, but any other elf who isn't a Dalish, paying only the thinnest lip service of civility to others.  Lanaya is the only one to treat the PC with real civility until you jump through flaming hoops like a circus poodle just to get your approval up with them.

 

Everyone has their own favorites, since each origin will appeal to different folks.  Not saying your opinion isn't valid, you obviously enjoyed it very much, just saying my experience with my Mahariel was very different.  My go-to elf warden is a Surana, because I love mages, love the specific dialogues they can engender (see my signature) followed by a Tabris.  Dalish is last choice for me.

 

Had city elf been a choice in Inquisition, I would have made Arianni Lavellan one of those.  Just not a big fan here, and Inquisition is only cementing my opinion about them even deeper.

 

And my complaint about the way Bioware handles emotional bad stuff in the game, was a general overall disapproval of the way they've been doing it for all the PC's.  I wasn't singling out the scene with Tamlen per se.  Look how no one asks (except for Wynne) anything about any trouble you had becoming a warden.  Or comforts you when the proverbial poo hits the electrical wind blowing device and your love interest (Alistair) tosses himself on the Archdemon.  Do you get a funeral or at least anyone speaking nicely of him (even the companions who traveled with you the past year)?  No.  You get nothing.  Nada.  Zip.  Only Wynne and her one throwaway line.  At least when you speak to Fergus, you can discuss the loved ones you lost in Highever.

[Lazarillo]

That's exactly why it's the least effective imo. My Dalish Warden was the only one that remained wistful, unfulfilled the entire game. I sent him off to find his clan again for the epilogue, but that's not much payoff.

 

[...]

 

Soo.. Yeah. Very worth checking out, but not very fulfilling as compared to the others so far, in slightly wider context.

 

That's why I say it's the best "Warden" story, as in, the story that works best if you want to play a character who leaves their old life behind their old life and focuses themselves on the threat that Darkspawn and the Blights pose.  Or put another, way, if you want DAO to be primarily a story about the 5th Blight and how it was stopped, the Dalish works best, IMO.  But if you want DAO to be primarily a story about your player character, I admit it's somewhat less of what you'd be looking for (the Human Noble, incidentally, would be the best for a PC-centric story, I think).

[straykat]

I also think it's a good intro to some DA themes, whatwith the Eluvian and whatnot. It opens the series with an interesting mystery. It's not best as far as this specific Ferelden story goes, but serves a wider purpose. And as for focusing on the Blight alone, that worked for me... I even sacrificed my Dalish, after all. There's little else to say about it. They've gone down in history as legendary, I guess

[Qis]

That's an odd distinction you're making there. Why would joining the Order to escape punishment be a better motivation? You're doing it to save your skin, just the same as the Dalish origin.

 

For other Origins, if not joined the order

 

- City Elf could be hanged or worse

- Dwarf Commoner also the same fate like City Elf (you could meet your default Dwarf character corpse in the prison if play other origin)

- Dwarf Noble could be dead in the Deep Road fighting endless Darkspawn, or become ghoul by eating tainted flesh or starved to death

- Mage could become a Tranquil despite following First Enchanter order, The Chantry don't care if one Mage become a Tranquil

- Human Noble could die in the castle during the siege

 

They all have strong motivation to join the order

 

But Dalish Elf have nothing but the alleged sickness that the only cure is by joining the Grey Warden. And DA2 prove that the sickness can be cured by Blood Magic, Merill done that by her own

 

Dalish origin have the weakest motivation to join the order

[Lazarillo]

But Dalish Elf have nothing but the alleged sickness that the only cure is by joining the Grey Warden. And DA2 prove that the sickness can be cured by Blood Magic, Merill done that by her own

 

Removing the presence of the Taint from an inanimate object (which can't, inherently, be Tainted in the first place according to DAI) is quite a bit different from curing someone suffering from Ghoul Syndrome.

[Qun00]

For other Origins, if not joined the order

- City Elf could be hanged or worse
- Dwarf Commoner also the same fate like City Elf (you could meet your default Dwarf character corpse in the prison if play other origin)
- Dwarf Noble could be dead in the Deep Road fighting endless Darkspawn, or become ghoul by eating tainted flesh or starved to death
- Mage could become a Tranquil despite following First Enchanter order, The Chantry don't care if one Mage become a Tranquil
- Human Noble could die in the castle during the siege

They all have strong motivation to join the order

But Dalish Elf have nothing but the alleged sickness that the only cure is by joining the Grey Warden. And DA2 prove that the sickness can be cured by Blood Magic, Merill done that by her own

Dalish origin have the weakest motivation to join the order

Fear isn't a good motivation in my book. Not storywise, anyhow.

I chose the option "If it is my duty, then I will go" after initially arguing against the idea of leaving the clan.

[Qis]

What duty? You and your friend/bf having fun exploring ancient ruin, then **** happen, you wake up after your leader heal you, but a stranger said you're still sick and if you want to survive you must follow him, that stranger is desperately finding a recruit...maybe he lie, maybe he just take advantage on your ignorance, maybe he lie to your leader and taking advantage on your clan ignorance and abusing his status...

 

Your sickness is just a claim, you maybe already fully healed by the keeper, but it's mysterious origin give you and the Keeper doubt and Duncan play with that in order to recruit you.

 

Merill also get the same taint, she is fully healed by using Blood Magic, and she's the Keeper's First or apprentice, she learn the old art...so i suspect Merethari also being using Blood Magic and fully healed Mahariel. Blood Magic and Elf is nothing anyway.

 

But because of Mahariel being tricked into taking the Joining, then she really get sick...for the rest of her life...

[sniper_arrow]

What duty? You and your friend/bf having fun exploring ancient ruin, then **** happen, you wake up after your leader heal you, but a stranger said you're still sick and if you want to survive you must follow him, that stranger is desperately finding a recruit...maybe he lie, maybe he just take advantage on your ignorance, maybe he lie to your leader and taking advantage on your clan ignorance and abusing his status...

 

Your sickness is just a claim, you maybe already fully healed by the keeper, but it's mysterious origin give you and the Keeper doubt and Duncan play with that in order to recruit you.

 

Merill also get the same taint, she is fully healed by using Blood Magic, and she's the Keeper's First or apprentice, she learn the old art...so i suspect Merethari also being using Blood Magic and fully healed Mahariel. Blood Magic and Elf is nothing anyway.

 

But because of Mahariel being tricked into taking the Joining, then she really get sick...for the rest of her life...

 

 

 

Merill didn't get sick of the taint, unless you mean the eluvian mirror shards. 

 

And where did you get the idea that Mahariel was tricked? The mirror itself was tainted.

[Qis]

Merill didn't get sick of the taint, unless you mean the eluvian mirror shards. 

 

And where did you get the idea that Mahariel was tricked? The mirror itself was tainted.

 

Isn't Mahariel and Tamlen got sick because of the damn mirror?

 

Merill got sick because of collecting the shards of the same mirror, and that's the reason the whole clan rejecting her

 

Merill manage to cure herself using ancient Elf magic, that is Blood Magic

 

And it is actually the same magic Merethari use to cure Mahariel

 

In other word, Mahariel and Merethari got tricked by Duncan.

[straykat]

Flemeth said there's only one cure to the taint.. which is exactly what Duncan did. And I think she's a bigger authority than anyone. She's probably one of the original gods/dragons who escaped the fate of the Archdemons. She probably knows things about the darkspawn we haven't even touched on yet.

 

I don't like Duncan, but I don't think he's that much of a bastard.

[Qun00]

What duty? You and your friend/bf having fun exploring ancient ruin, then **** happen, you wake up after your leader heal you, but a stranger said you're still sick and if you want to survive you must follow him, that stranger is desperately finding a recruit...maybe he lie, maybe he just take advantage on your ignorance, maybe he lie to your leader and taking advantage on your clan ignorance and abusing his status...

Your sickness is just a claim, you maybe already fully healed by the keeper, but it's mysterious origin give you and the Keeper doubt and Duncan play with that in order to recruit you.

Merill also get the same taint, she is fully healed by using Blood Magic, and she's the Keeper's First or apprentice, she learn the old art...so i suspect Merethari also being using Blood Magic and fully healed Mahariel. Blood Magic and Elf is nothing anyway.

But because of Mahariel being tricked into taking the Joining, then she really get sick...for the rest of her life...

The duty of honoring the treaty and helping defeat the Blight... as explained by Marethari. I wish I were discussing with someone that actually remembers the game.

I don't see why proof is required or to whom it should be proven. Mahariel knows he is sick because he woke up after staying unconscious for two days. The Keeper knows because she was the one who healed him. She also confirmed Duncan's statement that the Warden was still in danger.

Only someone who doesn't trust the Order as a whole would be as skeptical as you are.

And again, I find the idea of joining out of fear to be a crappy motivation. It isn't worth competing over who's got the bigger reason to be shitting their pants.

[Callidus Thorn]

I've always thought the Dalish Origin was the worst. Two people wander into a ruin they should have had the sense to avoid, and then it's become a Grey warden or die. And the Dalish have always struck me as the sort who would simply stand and watch if they saw some humans being attacked by darkspawn, so I tend to think that the Dalish's motivation to stop the Blight would be weaker than the others.

[sylvanaerie]

For other Origins, if not joined the order

 

- City Elf could be hanged or worse

- Dwarf Commoner also the same fate like City Elf (you could meet your default Dwarf character corpse in the prison if play other origin)

- Dwarf Noble could be dead in the Deep Road fighting endless Darkspawn, or become ghoul by eating tainted flesh or starved to death

- Mage could become a Tranquil despite following First Enchanter order, The Chantry don't care if one Mage become a Tranquil

- Human Noble could die in the castle during the siege

 

They all have strong motivation to join the order

 

But Dalish Elf have nothing but the alleged sickness that the only cure is by joining the Grey Warden. And DA2 prove that the sickness can be cured by Blood Magic, Merill done that by her own

 

Dalish origin have the weakest motivation to join the order

 

Merrill didn't cure herself of the taint.  She was never tainted in the first place.  She cleansed the mirror shards using blood magic.  Removing the taint from an inanimate object is quite different from curing a living being.  Marethari even tells the PC that he isn't cured, that she can only stall out the taint, and it will continue to grow inside the PC.  Duncan even pushes you to admit that you still feel sick.  You're sick.  Get over it.  This was the only way to help your character and the story hook into the game.  If your import warden was anyone other than Dalish, in DA2, Merrill says the mirror killed both Tamlen and Mahariel.

 

The cure isn't "alleged".  Even Flemeth tells you in DA2 there is only one cure.  Considering the revelations about Flemeth in DAI, I'll take her word for it.  That the issue of your original sickness doesn't come up later (as in you get sick and have to be put down or something) I'm going to assume the Joining fixed the initial problem.  Duncan doing what he did bought you a couple decades of life rather than a few months (see Tamlen's pitiful state when encountered again).  

Spoiler

Hawke's tainted sibling is only saved if you bring Anders along to contact the wardens.  Merrill can do nothing for Carver or Bethany.

 

If you played through these games, I'm not sure how you missed this information or developed this interpretation of events.

[sniper_arrow]

Isn't Mahariel and Tamlen got sick because of the damn mirror?

 

Merill got sick because of collecting the shards of the same mirror, and that's the reason the whole clan rejecting her

 

Merill manage to cure herself using ancient Elf magic, that is Blood Magic

 

And it is actually the same magic Merethari use to cure Mahariel

 

In other word, Mahariel and Merethari got tricked by Duncan.

 

I agree what sylvanaerie said. What nice imagination you got there.

[Qis]

I don't think the mirror taint is darkspawn taint, it is just an assumption by Duncan, he's even wrong that it is originated from Tevinter

 

Darkspawn appear after Tamlen touch the mirror is just coincidence, it is because The Blight is spreading

 

No Darkspawn ever use Eluvian anyway, they travel underground.

 

So Duncan is lying...Mahariel already cured from whatever sickness the mirror caused, the Joining is what make Mahariel really sick

 

Tamlen becaome ghoul is not related with Darkspawn taint, it just look similar doiesn't mean it is the same disease.

 

Merethari was possessed by Demon, everything she claim about Merill can be discounted, Demon lies to make us turn on eachother.