Questa discussione ha avuto 363 risposte

[sniper_arrow]

I don't think the mirror taint is darkspawn taint, it is just an assumption by Duncan, he's even wrong that it is originated from Tevinter

 

Darkspawn appear after Tamlen touch the mirror is just coincidence, it is because The Blight is spreading

 

No Darkspawn ever use Eluvian anyway, they travel underground.

 

So Duncan is lying...Mahariel already cured from whatever sickness the mirror caused, the Joining is what make Mahariel really sick

 

Tamlen becaome ghoul is not related with Darkspawn taint, it just look similar doiesn't mean it is the same disease.

 

Merethari was possessed by Demon, everything she claim about Merill can be discounted, Demon lies to make us turn on eachother.

 

Outlining your fan fiction, I assume?

[straykat]

 so I tend to think that the Dalish's motivation to stop the Blight would be weaker than the others.

 

It depends on your starting perspective imo. My Dalish feels cursed. He was an ass who killed the humans in the beginning. I get the jerkwad behavior out of my system really early. lol. Afterwards, he's superstitious, so to speak. Everything went wrong in his life. He thinks he deserves it. And he ends up learning a little from most of his group as time goes on. He tries to find a sense of family with them, he sees how lost they feel too (Ali, Shale, Zev), he comes to peace with Duty and Death from people like Wynne and Sten, he appreciates the Chantry from Leliana and ends up admiring Shartan.

 

OTOH, I have a Warden who's quite the opposite. They made apologies for humans at first, while Tamlen criticized them for it. Later on, they become more like Tamlen. He hates Duncan, he's sick of Alistair's crying, he's hated being dragged around on a wild goose chase since Ostagar. And they only learn from Morrigan: All she cares about is survival and independence.

[Lazarillo]

I don't think the mirror taint is darkspawn taint, it is just an assumption by Duncan, he's even wrong that it is originated from Tevinter

 

Darkspawn appear after Tamlen touch the mirror is just coincidence, it is because The Blight is spreading

 

No Darkspawn ever use Eluvian anyway, they travel underground.

 

So Duncan is lying...Mahariel already cured from whatever sickness the mirror caused, the Joining is what make Mahariel really sick

 

Tamlen becaome ghoul is not related with Darkspawn taint, it just look similar doiesn't mean it is the same disease.

 

Merethari was possessed by Demon, everything she claim about Merill can be discounted, Demon lies to make us turn on eachother.

 

Let's see.

1. Duncan is a Gray Warden.  Gray Wardens have a literal sixth sense for the Taint.  Saying Duncan assumed the mirror was Tainted is like saying Duncan just assumed Mahariel was Dalish because s/he had tattoos and pointy ears.

 

2. The building of the Blight may have been the source of the Darkspawn, but that doesn't change the fact that they were connected to a Tainted mirror.  Heck, the Darkspawn massing for the 5th Blight may have been the ones that Tainted it in the first place...we don't know how long it was like that, only that it already was when Mahariel found it (see point #1).

 

3. And the Eluvian was underground when found.  The Darkspawn didn't have to come out the other end, per se.

 

4. Uh, no, The Joining doesn't make you sick.  The Joining either kills you outright, or kills you in a couple decades.  Nobody who goes through the Joining gets a little sick.

 

5. HE WAS SERVING THE FREAKING DARKSPAWN. 

 

6. Marethari was not possessed by Audacity until years later, after Merrill tried repairing the mirror in the first place.  And claiming that Marethari was possessed all along and lying doesn't work, because Merrill had interacted with Audacity as a "pure" demon after finding the mirror (which means, after Mahariel was made sick).

 

It's one thing to have your own head-canon and whatnot, and heck, if you want to have one that flies in contradiction to the facts, you are free to do that as well.  But you're making assumptions based on that while ignoring what is plainly stated in the games.

[Callidus Thorn]

It depends on your starting perspective imo. My Dalish feels cursed. He was an ass who killed the humans in the beginning. I get the jerkwad behavior out of my system really early. lol. Afterwards, he's superstitious, so to speak. Everything went wrong in his life. He thinks he deserves it. And he ends up learning a little from most of his group as time goes on. He tries to find a sense of family with them, he sees how lost they feel too (Ali, Shale, Zev), he comes to peace with Duty and Death from people like Wynne and Sten, he appreciates the Chantry from Leliana and ends up admiring Shartan.

 

OTOH, I have a Warden who's quite the opposite. They made apologies for humans at first, while Tamlen criticized them for it. Later on, they become more like Tamlen. He hates Duncan, he's sick of Alistair's crying, he's hated being dragged around on a wild goose chase since Ostagar. And they only learn from Morrigan: All she cares about is survival and independence.

 

Well, looking at the other Origins:

 

Human Noble has a double dose of duty, firstly from their King fighting the Blight(more relevant than other Origins, because Cousland), and secondly from their father.

City Elf's mother could have been recruited, but since there was no Blight, she declined.

Mages have the fact that the Circle has sent mages to Ostagar to fight in the army, and Irving's encouragement.

Both Dwarf origins have the motivation of the Darkspawn being their enemy by default.

Dalish is basically Grey Warden or death. (Please, correct me if I'm wrong here. I found this one to be the most boring, so I may have missed something.)

 

Sure, the other Origins can come down to simply joining to save their own skins(unless you go to Irving in the Mage Origin) if you choose to play them that way, but the others all seem to have something else going for them.

[Qun00]

On a lighter note, I think that Fenarel's parents must have a great sense of humor.

[cindercatz]

That's why I say it's the best "Warden" story, as in, the story that works best if you want to play a character who leaves their old life behind their old life and focuses themselves on the threat that Darkspawn and the Blights pose. Or put another, way, if you want DAO to be primarily a story about the 5th Blight and how it was stopped, the Dalish works best, IMO. But if you want DAO to be primarily a story about your player character, I admit it's somewhat less of what you'd be looking for (the Human Noble, incidentally, would be the best for a PC-centric story, I think).

Makes sense, sure. For me, Tabris was my personal favorite both in terms of PC centric story and Warden centric story. Just from my perspective. She's the only one of my Wardens that became dedicated primarily to the Wardens in the end. She had the most vulnerable people to protect, so her dedication to the cause was strongest in the end. My dalish didn't have much of a stake in the Wardens. He was still out trying to find his place. Tabris is also the only one I struggled with the ending over. She was the most burdened, and loyal to a larger group of people. The only one that took the US route in the final version of it was my Dwarven Noble, but it was selfish. His family was no longer on the throne, he'd worked out his son's adoption, and he was all about honor. He'd been betrayed and had his revenge, and so here was the opportunity for the ultimate honorable death, and he preferred to be the one to go down in history as the great martyr. He couldn't lower his head in humility, wasn't in his character. He didn't trust magic or elves or humans much, couldn't reclaim his title, so he ended up doing what a warden's expected to do. But not for the reasons of duty or any oath. And yet outwardly, he's the one other people would applaud for their great sacrifice. DA:O was just a very interesting game that way.

[Qis]

 

Let's see.

1. Duncan is a Gray Warden.  Gray Wardens have a literal sixth sense for the Taint.  Saying Duncan assumed the mirror was Tainted is like saying Duncan just assumed Mahariel was Dalish because s/he had tattoos and pointy ears.

 

2. The building of the Blight may have been the source of the Darkspawn, but that doesn't change the fact that they were connected to a Tainted mirror.  Heck, the Darkspawn massing for the 5th Blight may have been the ones that Tainted it in the first place...we don't know how long it was like that, only that it already was when Mahariel found it (see point #1).

 

3. And the Eluvian was underground when found.  The Darkspawn didn't have to come out the other end, per se.

 

4. Uh, no, The Joining doesn't make you sick.  The Joining either kills you outright, or kills you in a couple decades.  Nobody who goes through the Joining gets a little sick.

 

5. HE WAS SERVING THE FREAKING DARKSPAWN. 

 

6. Marethari was not possessed by Audacity until years later, after Merrill tried repairing the mirror in the first place.  And claiming that Marethari was possessed all along and lying doesn't work, because Merrill had interacted with Audacity as a "pure" demon after finding the mirror (which means, after Mahariel was made sick).

 

It's one thing to have your own head-canon and whatnot, and heck, if you want to have one that flies in contradiction to the facts, you are free to do that as well.  But you're making assumptions based on that while ignoring what is plainly stated in the games.

 

1. having whatever sense doesn't mean he don't lie to you

 

2. there is no evidence the mirror is tainted via Darkspawn, the mirror is Eluvian anyway and Duncan is wrong or lie about it's origin

 

3. No, Darkspawn never use Eluvian

 

4. The Joining making you sick, it is like injecting yourself with a substence that contain a virus but the virus act slowly than normally

 

5. No ghouls work with Darkspawn, they can hear the calling but they don't serve the Archdemon, for exmple Ruck. And Duncan lie about he being dead.

 

6. Merill can cure herself from the whatever sickness the mirror caused using Blood Magic, since she's the Keeper's First, surely she use the same method Merethari used to cure Mahariel. That's the whole point.

 

This is not head canon, this is canon.

[GoldenGail3]

1. having whatever sense doesn't mean he don't lie to you
 
2. there is no evidence the mirror is tainted via Darkspawn, the mirror is Eluvian anyway and Duncan is wrong or lie about it's origin
 
3. No, Darkspawn never use Eluvian
 
4. The Joining making you sick, it is like injecting yourself with a substence that contain a virus but the virus act slowly than normally
 
5. No ghouls work with Darkspawn, they can hear the calling but they don't serve the Archdemon, for exmple Ruck. And Duncan lie about he being dead.
 
6. Merill can cure herself from the whatever sickness the mirror caused using Blood Magic, since she's the Keeper's First, surely she use the same method Merethari used to cure Mahariel. That's the whole point.
 
This is not head canon, this is canon.

5. Yes, they do work with Darkspawn. They can hear the calling as well; why else did Ruck hear it?

6. That didn't work well enough on a living person like Mahariel. Mahariel can die because of the taint which can happen in some world states.

[Qis]

5. Yes, they do work with Darkspawn. They can hear the calling as well; why else did Ruck hear it?

6. That didn't work well enough on a living person like Mahariel. Mahariel can die because of the taint which can happen in some world states.

 

All Wardens also hear the calling, but does that make all wardens working with Darspawn/Archdemon?

 

Yes, she could die, but the taint is not the same with Darkspawn taint, it just a mysterious sickness claimed to be Darkspawn taint

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Surana > Mahariel. All day, any day.

[Fylimar]

1. having whatever sense doesn't mean he don't lie to you

 

2. there is no evidence the mirror is tainted via Darkspawn, the mirror is Eluvian anyway and Duncan is wrong or lie about it's origin

 

3. No, Darkspawn never use Eluvian

 

4. The Joining making you sick, it is like injecting yourself with a substence that contain a virus but the virus act slowly than normally

 

5. No ghouls work with Darkspawn, they can hear the calling but they don't serve the Archdemon, for exmple Ruck. And Duncan lie about he being dead.

 

6. Merill can cure herself from the whatever sickness the mirror caused using Blood Magic, since she's the Keeper's First, surely she use the same method Merethari used to cure Mahariel. That's the whole point.

 

This is not head canon, this is canon.

 

 

Did you even bother to listen to character conversations? Or  do you just skip through?

 

1. Why should Duncan lie to you? If he wanted you so badly as a GW, he just had to conscript you. It's a friggin' blight, he can do that without bothering with lies.

2. Yes there is evidence, Tamlen is living proof, Duncans darkspawn sense is proof

3. They don't have to use it, they just have to be near it for a while to taint it - look, what happens to lands, where DS roamed for a longer period. Look how Ostagar looked. Look how animals changed, who lived near DS for a while (the spiders in the deep roads for example, the even are called tainted spiders or corrupted spiders - what do you think, that means?)

4. The Joining didn't make Mahariel sick, becauce s/he was already sick. The Joining gives you extra powers against DS for a while and kills you then, it's not, what you call a normal sickness

5. You become a ghoul before you become a darkspawn. Ruck will at one point change compeltely. That is the whole point: Tamlen tells you, that he don't want to become a darkspawn, because he has enough of himself left, to recognise, what is going to happen to him. He begs you to kill, so he wont become a monste - he tells you that, you just have to listen.

6. Merrill and Marethari can cure no living being from the taint. Merrill never claimed that nor is it shown anywhere in the whole game series. Merrill cleansed the mirror with the help of a demon, she herself summoned (not Marethari as you claimed before).

 

And obviously you can't decide, if the mirror is tainted  or not. In the Dalish origin you claim, it's not tainted, but for Merrill to clean it, it is suddenly tainted 

 

And as for your claim, that the Dalish has no reason to join the Wardens: The Dalish has even more reason to join, than any other origin: the taint not only threatens your life (it's not a little sickness, like you said, it's a death sentence), he/she gets a first hand experience, what will happen, if the Blight goes unchecked and gives the character (if he/she is not a totally selfish bastard) a reason t o help stop it. The only other origin, who could claim that, is the dwarf noble: you fight darkspawn too in that origin and get a glimpse in what could happen.

[Qis]

If the mirror is trainted and Mahariel is cured by Merethar or as Duncan claim "only temporary", then Mahariel don't need the Joining, she already a Grey Warden then...what's the difference?

 

Tamlen become a ghoul or Shriek-ly looking because he don't cured by the Keeper.

 

My point is MAHARIEL ALREADY CURED, the Joining that make her sick again.

 

My evidence is Merill use Blood Magic to cure herself and clean the mirror from the "taint"...she have no problem for 6 years in Kirkwall...

[Illegitimus]

 

My point is MAHARIEL ALREADY CURED, the Joining that make her sick again.

 

 

 

 

Your point is wrong.  Mahariel is tainted and is going to turn.  She can actually feel the sickness still inside her..  Merrill wasn't tainted by the Eluvian because it was no longer open to the tainted thing on the other side.  Remember, only living things can be tainted.  

[Qis]

Feeling sick is player's choice in dialogue option, my Mahariel feel perfectly fine

[Fylimar]

Merrill needed no cure, because she was never sick. Duncan destroyed the mirror and Merrills sahrds had not the same power, the mirror had, before Duncan shattered it.

You have yet to bring a proof for your assumption that Mahariel was cured by Marethari and would have been fine. Just repeating doesn't make it more true.

[Phantom Roxas]

I went into this game hearing that this was be the weakest Origin with the worst reason for joining the Wardens, but I like how it turned out, though I thought it was something like the Joining is what cured Mahariel? Duncan stressed heavily that joining the Grey Wardens had to be done quickly, or else the taint from the Eluvian would consume Mahariel.
 

4. The Joining making you sick, it is like injecting yourself with a substence that contain a virus but the virus act slowly than normally

I got the impression that it was more like an immunization. You were already tainted by the Eluvian, so the Joining introduced a similar taint that, while you live on the same borrowed time as all Grey Wardens, your immune system was trained then to fight off the taint from the Eluvian. The darkspawn taint effectively overwrote/negated the Eluvian's taint.

[Lazarillo]

I got the impression that it was more like an immunization. You were already tainted by the Eluvian, so the Joining introduced a similar taint that, while you live on the same borrowed time as all Grey Wardens, your immune system was trained then to fight off the taint from the Eluvian. The darkspawn taint effectively overwrote/negated the Eluvian's taint.

It's pretty much this.  It's confirmed as such in DA2 by Flemeth and then potentially later by Stroud as well.

[Aren]

Yeah, IMO the main issue with a Dalish Warden is that the origin itself is so bland compared to the others. But that doesn't mean it's not worth playing. Not only are you tied into the other games and the story of Thedas as a whole (particularly if you romance Morrigan), but you have a unique perspective in DAO.

Zev's mother was Dalish and he tried to live among them at one point, you can confront Leliana about her oops racism! comments, and you're a stranger in a strange land just like Sten. You can bond with Morrigan since you both grew up in the wilderness, outside "normal" human mores. The big difference is that you come from a loving, close-knit clan and she had... Flemeth for a mom, which speaks for itself.

Also, a Dalish Warden gets one of the most badass lines in the game.

Loghain: Pray our King is amenable to reason.
Mahariel: The Dalish have no Kings.

Except the god-kings called Evanuris

[Aren]

if you want DAO to be primarily a story about the 5th Blight and how it was stopped, the Dalish works best, IMO.  But if you want DAO to be primarily a story about your player character, I admit it's somewhat less of what you'd be looking for (the Human Noble, incidentally, would be the best for a PC-centric story, I think).

I don't like the main plot of DAO is boring,so i prefer if the story is more about the personal feeling of the PC .

[Qis]

Merrill needed no cure, because she was never sick. Duncan destroyed the mirror and Merrills sahrds had not the same power, the mirror had, before Duncan shattered it.

You have yet to bring a proof for your assumption that Mahariel was cured by Marethari and would have been fine. Just repeating doesn't make it more true.

 

Destroying the mirror only disable the mirror to be used as a gate, closing the gate, but it doesn't took away whatever the curse it have, that's why Merill use Blood Magic

 

You have no proof that Mahariel is sick, it just Duncan claim and he's desperately need a recruit.

[Lazarillo]

Destroying the mirror only disable the mirror to be used as a gate, closing the gate, but it doesn't took away whatever the curse it have, that's why Merill use Blood Magic

 

You have no proof that Mahariel is sick, it just Duncan claim and he's desperately need a recruit.

That doesn't mean Merrill was sick.  She never was.  If she was, she would have died, because there is no cure, outside of becoming a Warden, and even that's not a true cure, it just means the Taint kills you more slowly.  Merrill removed a Tainted presence from an inanimate object, and it took her nearly a decade of using forbidden magic to do so, and inanimate objects can't even truly be Tainted.  Neither Merrill nor Marethari have secret Elf magic that can cure the Taint, because there isn't any secret elf magic that can cure the Taint.  I can't say anything beyond that without dropping some pretty mad Inquisition spoilers, and this is an Origins board, strictly speaking, so I hesitate to do that, though.

 

As for Duncan, he doesn't need an excuse to recruit someone.  He can LITERALLY point at ANYONE in Thedas and say "you're gonna join the Gray Wardens", and they have to take the Joining.  No questions asked, no objections allowed.  That's how Gray Wardens work.  They typically don't, at least, not during Blights, but they have that authority.  He doesn't need to make up a story about being sick.

[Qis]

 

As for Duncan, he doesn't need an excuse to recruit someone.  He can LITERALLY point at ANYONE in Thedas and say "you're gonna join the Gray Wardens", and they have to take the Joining.  No questions asked, no objections allowed.  That's how Gray Wardens work.  They typically don't, at least, not during Blights, but they have that authority.  He doesn't need to make up a story about being sick.

 

Really? Then why he didn't recruit Elissa Cousland right away? Elissa is his first choice but because he CAN'T recruit her then he must compromise and look at Ser Gilmore. Untill Bryce have no choice then Duncan manipulate the situation to force recruiting Elissa

 

Similar here, do you think the Dalish will allow their clansmen to be recruited by shemlen just like that? He need a strong basis to recruit a Dalish. The Dalish just don't care and they plan to move away anyway. Duncan desperately need a recruit, the only way is to manipulate the Dalish gullibility and ignorance about the matter.

[Abyss108]

It's not just Duncan that says you are sick, other characters comment on how you look ill as well. The game makes it very clear you are ill, it just gives you the option to put on a brave face about it. Like in Trespasser, you are given the option to say things are fine when something is obviously going on with the mark.

[Qun00]

It's not just Duncan that says you are sick, other characters comment on how you look ill as well. The game makes it very clear you are ill, it just gives you the option to put on a brave face about it. Like in Trespasser, you are given the option to say things are fine when something is obviously going on with the mark.

Personally, I prefer to keep any discussion to three replies max. Nobody can change anyone's mind about anything.

[Abyss108]

Personally, I prefer to keep any discussion to three replies max. Nobody can change anyone's mind about anything.

 

Whilst you're not wrong, there's really no point in the first three replies either if you're only posting to get someone to change their mind.

 

Also, I've only replied once!