26 réponses à ce sujet

[krishachaos]

So in a random experiment that started as a dare and ended in a laughing/cursing mess - we learned the value of gear vs promotes.

 

4 of us in the group - One has stats in the 160's across the board, one around 100, one in the 70's and a newer player.  We were helping the newer one of us get all of their dragons and were running threatening.  So the discussion gets around to the three of us putting on the original inquisition jogging suit (original armor) and the original weapons to go run the final threatening dragon.

 

Let me tell you something - a lot of it is in the gear.  I was only doing 10% of the damage I had done the round before, and went from taking 1 point of damage to taking 80 damage.  The two higher promote people fared better but we were all using potions and had to actually revert back to tactics.

 

It's was absolutely hysterical, and is an excellent way to put some fun back in the game for you high promote people.

 

This should also give the low promote people hope - keep playing and working on your gear, this is the key to your success and is still attainable, I was given 8 daggers of the dragon yesterday alone (lol)

[lcneed]

I am surprised at the damage taken.  With 160 con, that's maxed damage reduction at 80%... and you still got 80 damage on threatening?

[DrakeHasNoFlow]

Saying promotions don't matter and it's all gear is a bit of an exaggeration. It matters substantially in nm/hb where 80% dmg resistance from melee/magic/ranged is huge. It's another reason that we see so many eagerly excited noobs who got lucky from rng and scored a hakkon valor have a false sense of confidence only to be in the fade by zone 2.

Promotions allow players who have a lot of them to solo higher difficulties at lower levels. It's easy for a promotion lord to solo nightmare at lvl 1 but give the same bis gear to someone but with a mediocre amount of promotions and the results will not be the same.

I will agree gear has always been the short term solution but once a players manifest has been maxed out, promotions end up being the end game due to the constitution and willpower having no point cap. You can only equip one superb belt of health but you can literally quadruple that with 200 points of constitution. Promotion lords already have their manifest maxed out, so this would not apply to them.

[krishachaos]

I didn't say it was ALL gear - just that the lowbies do have hope without needing to be a promotion lord.

[lcneed]

I wonder... if there is some kind of code that take you back to 10/10/10 stats if you put on all inquisition gears!    It is possible that they have it as some kind of anti cheating code.  If you are have high stats, you shouldn't be wearing inquisition gears.   If you are wearing inquisition gears, we will set your stats back to 10/10/10 or like 15/15/15.....

[DrakeHasNoFlow]

Lowbies were doing fine in threatening/perilous with zero promotes before all the patches were released a year ago.
Damp has gotten a lot friendlier to newbies even with no stats due to the emphasis on calling dragons and faction nerfs that alleviate the risks of wiping. I can't remember the last time in the history of damp that I ever saw a team get wiped by a low level threatening dragon, let alone one that consisted of a player with maxed stats and another with middle ground stats.

[DrakeHasNoFlow]

I wonder... if there is some kind of code that take you back to 10/10/10 stats if you put on all inquisition gears!    It is possible that they have it as some kind of anti cheating code.  If you are have high stats, you shouldn't be wearing inquisition gears.   If you are wearing inquisition gears, we will set your stats back to 10/10/10 or like 15/15/15.....

The only way you could get a definitive result would be to uninstall the patches in damp or the ones that removed insta gibbs from demon commanders, archers, and assassins as well as make a new account. Unfortunately, even what NP clan is doing right now isn't close to the original state damp was before. I doubt anyone would go through all the effort to do that as the key glitch was pretty game breaking.

[Proto]

Lowbies were doing fine in threatening/perilous with zero promotes before all the patches were released a year ago.
Damp has gotten a lot friendlier to newbies even with no stats due to the emphasis on calling dragons and faction nerfs that alleviate the risks of wiping. I can't remember the last time in the history of damp that I ever saw a team get wiped by a low level threatening dragon, let alone one that consisted of a player with maxed stats and another with middle ground stats.

 

Yeah, lowbies were doing great in threatening/perilous with their Mages, mainly Arcane Warrior, and the Lego.

 

I think it is fair to compare Heartbreaker and old-school Perilous. It feels similar to me at least. I have really high stats for Heartbreaker and stats that ranged from low to high for Perilous back in the day.

[JiaJM98]

Saying promotions don't matter and it's all gear is a bit of an exaggeration. It matters substantially in nm/hb where 80% dmg resistance from melee/magic/ranged is huge. It's another reason that we see so many eagerly excited noobs who got lucky from rng and scored a hakkon valor have a false sense of confidence only to be in the fade by zone 2.

Promotions allow players who have a lot of them to solo higher difficulties at lower levels. It's easy for a promotion lord to solo nightmare at lvl 1 but give the same bis gear to someone but with a mediocre amount of promotions and the results will not be the same.

I will agree gear has always been the short term solution but once a players manifest has been maxed out, promotions end up being the end game due to the constitution and willpower having no point cap. You can only equip one superb belt of health but you can literally quadruple that with 200 points of constitution. Promotion lords already have their manifest maxed out, so this would not apply to them.

Agreed. Gears make you good, but promotions make you OP.

[coldwetn0se]

It can feel like good gear makes a difference, but still with only certain classes. I just started playing MP on the Xbone last Friday(as some of you know, I normally play on the PC), and here is what I have learned so far:

1) Seabass rules, as always. She was the first character I saved mats to craft (second was Luka). However, low level Sarra still would go down pretty damn quick, since I had no heal on kill I could craft (not even the damn 2% ring ), until getting certain passives. And barrier, of course. Just yesterday I got a unique level 17 staff, with Heal on Hit (can't remember the name), and this has made low level Seabass pretty awesome, on Threatening.

2) Lego as always, is damn near indestructible. Yet due to crappy gear (can't seem to get decent weapons/shields, and he is still in a medium level armor), he has problems at low levels. Shield Wall is a must at all times (learned that the hard way, when trying to change up my build...doh!). He also is a giant snooze fest if you are stuck soloing. That toothpick of a sword just doesn't quite get the job done. Ended up doing a zone five for 30+ minutes.

3) Archer does some great damage even at lower promotes, with a not-totally-crappy bow. But an enemy can't even look at him (except on routine), without him falling over dead. Same with the Hunter. (and I do love me some bow-men) Finally got my hands on Heal on Hit bow (why is my stupid brain not remembering any of the weapon names!!). This should definitely help.

4) Keeper. I am one of those that actually loves the Keeper with my higher promotes/PC account. She works great with any other player that can truly take advantage of Static Cage (and most of the people I play with, definitely take advantage of it). However, with my lack of controller skills (I use KB&M on the PC), I spend more times doing ill-timed barrier, or missing opportunities to utilize static cage. She fades....a lot. I fully admit the l2p bit, is on me.

5) Reaver might be the best warrior for being under-geared/under-promoted. I can solo her at level one (btw, I don't really like soloing, but sometimes there is precious little choice), on Routine and Threatening (though there is a fair amount of kiting that goes on, in Threatening, and I did get lucky with the factions). I have an okay maul (Smash), and medium armor (with upgrades in place). She is the fastest to promote, due to the speed in which she can take down enemies (once she has DR - and I DO have a DR ability ring - was in the first Superb chest I ever bought).

6) My dear Luka is the one that suffers the most with low gear/low promotes. Oh, and I also seem to do a terrible job with the flasks...I keep changing what buttons they are keyed to, to eliminate this crappy playing, but still am "all thumbs". No wait - thumbs are good with controllers. I'm all "pinkies". That sounds about right.

I bring her up, since she too was crafted soon after Seabass (she is one of my favorites on the PC, and used often). Hell, I channel that dwarfy rocketeer! But on the Xbone right now, she is struggling for me to promote her once. *wibble* The worst part is, trying to kill anything with her pocket knives. I have rather poor daggers. I actually was in a group yesterday where we switched to Perilous. I warned them ahead of time, that I would be promoting my Reaver (I knew that once we finished that last Threatening match, that I would reach 20), and the only other character that I had that was in the "teens", was Luka. Even with a very generous player botting with Seabass, I still face-planted. I tried to stay in stealth, whenever I was waiting for the flasks to cool down, but damn....it was bad. Team ended up wiped.

Someone above noted how they played with someone who had got a Hakkon, but was clearly under-promoted. The gear does help, but I too have been with a player who had Valor, but was clearly low promoted. They took a couple naps throughout the match. They were hitting harder, but without promotes and some game play understanding, they were getting messed up. We were both Reavers at the time, btw.

So yes...gear good, promos even better.

[Proto]

It can feel like good gear makes a difference, but still with only certain classes. I just started playing MP on the Xbone last Friday

 

Hey, welcome to the Xbone! Hopefully run into you sometime. Not threatening tho...yuck. 

[Snakebite]

Saying promotions don't matter and it's all gear is a bit of an exaggeration. It matters substantially in nm/hb where 80% dmg resistance from melee/magic/ranged is huge. It's another reason that we see so many eagerly excited noobs who got lucky from rng and scored a hakkon valor have a false sense of confidence only to be in the fade by zone 2.

 

Until hundreds of hours of promotions have been earned, gear is significantly more important.  One good drop can quadruple your damage output.  New armor can double your defenses to physical attacks.  The audience the OP is aiming for are new players who have no business being in Nightmare of Heartbreaker in the first place, not people with 170 stats across the board.

 

You should try playing a game with inquisition gear.  1 damage on an enemy that has 18K HP isnt going to cut it.  It is impossible to clear Nightmare only using inquisition gear.  Slightly less impossible to clear with no promotions.

 

 

Promotions allow players who have a lot of them to solo higher difficulties at lower levels. It's easy for a promotion lord to solo nightmare at lvl 1 but give the same bis gear to someone but with a mediocre amount of promotions and the results will not be the same.

 

I have seen far more people high on the leaderboards fail miserably than I have seen come anything close to soloing Nightmare with a level 1.

 

The only way you could get a definitive result would be to uninstall the patches in damp or the ones that removed insta gibbs from demon commanders, archers, and assassins as well as make a new account.

 

I'm pretty sure that the Demon Commander and Shadows can still one-hit-kill new players on Perilous.

[coldwetn0se]

Hey, welcome to the Xbone! Hopefully run into you sometime. Not threatening tho...yuck. 

Thanks, Proto!

LOL! If my one Luka run on Perilous, is proof of anything...I need some more time in the "yuck!" Actually @xrayspec73 also started a new MP account on the Xbone, last week as well. We did try peri for a couple of runs, with a couple of people we met while running a public lobby. Didn't finish any of the matches, but made it zone five....once. One of the ladies who joined us, had a handful of promotes, and was probably ready to start playing her higher level characters on Perilous. She was a big help to us nearly no-promotes (I had one warrior promo, and xray had maybe one of each..??). The other person also had a few more promos than us, and some somewhat decent gear.

Feel free to add me though, and I will gladly play Peri again - later if not sooner.

Currently working off my original Xbox account: FlattestFlea726
Also have: coldwetn0se (just haven't played with it yet, since I couldn't remember the email addy or password I had used for it I do know it now, though.)

[Proto]

Thanks, Proto!

 

I'll add you this evening. I'm sure we'll get some games in soon. My gamertags are in my sig.

[lcneed]

Hey, welcome to the Xbone! Hopefully run into you sometime. Not threatening tho...yuck. 

 

Coldie and Xray had been turned to the darkside....

 

[Proto]

Coldie and Xray had been turned to the darkside....

 

Everyone wants to play with the don, Hang3dMan, and his goon, Juggernuggss.

[coldwetn0se]

Coldie and Xray had been turned to the darkside....

LOL!.....nah! I still prefer the PC any day (sorry my console pals...still think you all are awesome, but I love my PC ). I still play/will continue to play, on the PC. But ever since that one thread about starting over with alt accounts came up, I wanted to do it. xRay already had a copy for the Xbox , and I got the GOTY copy for a good price, so Xbone it was.

It has been rather fun, but also frustrating playing on the Xbox. Two issues - one is getting use to playing with a controller. Second is not opening that last Victory Chest. I just snuck in under the wire, to get the last book reward, and under NO CIRCUMSTANCES will I except Drakescale Armor, from my one and only chance at a Victory Chest. So there it sits...mocking me, as I grind my way through the Warrior/Mage/Rogue Experience chests. *le sigh* I am a few levels away from getting the Warrior chest, but only half way through the Mage and Rogue. yawn. And since I run mostly on Threatening, it is veeeeery slooooowwww, at getting the xp/levels/promos.

But as stated, still playing on PC. Will see you soon @lcneed. We still have the last HB to complete!!

[JiaJM98]

But as stated, still playing on PC. Will see you soon @lcneed. We still have the last HB to complete!!

Feel free to add me for the HB runs. Done the challenge but I still want some fun

Oh how I love the demon zone 5 mayhem!

Running HB with a group is fun, but attempting to solo and fail after an hour / half an hour of effort isn't...

[FMP2013]

You'll get the gear much before the promotions.
I have most high-end gear and all Hakkons. 94/90/83.

Gear still looks better for me. But my promotions are surely helping a lot. I have the Valor since I was around 30 constitution, and now with 90 my 2 handers are absolutely sturdier.

[Wavebend]

I think it is fair to compare Heartbreaker and old-school Perilous. It feels similar to me at least. I have really high stats for Heartbreaker and stats that ranged from low to high for Perilous back in the day.

 

Nah.. Heartbreaker at low promotes is a LOT more difficult than pre-patch perilous. You should try it out with snakebite at some point, it's really fun.

[Proto]

Nah.. Heartbreaker at low promotes is a LOT more difficult than pre-patch perilous. You should try it out with snakebite at some point, it's really fun.

 

Why do you think we started these accounts?

 

What I meant was this:

 

Soloing and playing Heartbreaker in a group at high promotes is similar to how Perilous felt back when I had lower promotes, pre-dragonslayer and pre-armor buff.

 

Soloing is difficult, especially on certain classes. In groups it is still possible to wipe. Instadeaths can happen ect...

[ThatBruhYouDK]

I would have never gotten the numbers I got for damage without the best gear and the amount of willpower promotes I have..cunning too because of the perma-crits.
It is a good combo of both

[TheLeakestWink]

I am surprised at the damage taken.  With 160 con, that's maxed damage reduction at 80%... and you still got 80 damage on threatening?

 

 

4 of us in the group - One has stats in the 160's across the board, one around 100, one in the 70's and a newer player.

 

The two higher promote (sic) people fared better

 

 

He's the players with stats in the 70s.

[DrakeHasNoFlow]

Nah.. Heartbreaker at low promotes is a LOT more difficult than pre-patch perilous. You should try it out with snakebite at some point, it's really fun.

Saarebas sar tar shield is a major game changer in heartbreaker. It's how most of have completed hb runs efficiently without much difficulty.

[lcneed]

Inspired by this thread, I put on my inquisition outfit and went undercover at threatening PUG last night.  OMG, it is so frigging hard  Even though normal arrows and stuff still hit only for 2 or 3 damage, the ability damage still hit pretty hard.   And it takes forever to kill something with inquisition weapon.   I didn't die but I was pretty much unless during the whole match.