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[Quarian Master Race]

Wait...This whole time you've been trash-talking us toasters, when all along you were half-toaster! 

 

(woaaaaaaaaaaah)

Cyborgs are awesome. Quarians are cyborgs. Post Lazarus Shep is a cyborg. Darth Vader is a cyborg

As long as the meat controls the machine in the equation and it isn't fake meat like a skinjob or something, I have no completely rational hate toward it.

 

I wouldn't say Quarians are cyborgs, in fact a argument could be made that they are after the volus the physically weakest species in the Mass Effect Universe, Those enviro-suits they wear are keeping them alive.     

Insofar as the setting doesn't get very much into augmentation apart from some little tidbits in the codex or technobabble surrounding Lazarus etc. I would technically agree that quarians aren't, at least compared to what you'd see in something like Deus Ex, but they are the species mentioned as making the most use of implants. Virtually everyone in the species has them in some form or another, from ones related to boosting the immune system that they all get, to some in Tali's passive skill descriptions increasing her strength/resilience.

I don't think that argument could be made at all with species like the Hanar around  , and anyway, Grunt at least seems to have been trained that they're tougher than the typical humanoid (Human, Asari, Salarian) to kill... 

https://www.youtube....Kv_C-is#t=1m14s

Whether this is a result of nature, the prevalence of cybernetic upgrades or the extra protection of the suit isn't elucidated on, but sensitive (and also medically nonsense) immunology doesn't necessarily mean weak bones or muscles. Quarians are stated in places to be a bit shorter than humans on average, with Golo from Asencion being just over 5 feet, though this is contradicted in other places (Tali's height has been listed as 1.72m or 5'8 in a character key, which would be fairly tall for a human female), and you don't see it in game likely because they wanted to use the same animation skeleton for all the humanoids.

The multiplayer is also canon and actually has the quarians being tougher than most other humanoids (though only in shields, health is the same as humans).

[MrFob]

Cyborgs are awesome. Quarians are cyborgs. Post Lazarus Shep is a cyborg. Darth Vader is a cyborg

As long as the meat controls the machine in the equation and it isn't fake meat like a skinjob or something, I have no completely rational hate toward it.

 

But is the meet controlling the machine or is the meet just a machine itself? Is the mind controlling the body or is the body determining the experience of any mind? Where do you draw the distinction between the body and the being? Can our personalities exist outside the context of out worldly perceptions?

 

 

... sorry, just been playing through The Talos Principle. Awesome game, by the way, you should really try it QMR.

[Quarian Master Race]

But is the meet controlling the machine or is the meet just a machine itself? Is the mind controlling the body or is the body determining the experience of any mind? Where do you draw the distinction between the body and the being? Can our personalities exist outside the context of out worldly perceptions?

 

 

... sorry, just been playing through The Talos Principle. Awesome game, by the way, you should really try it QMR.

From what I can tell, that the organic body is a fully mechanistic system is possible but unconfirmed by modern science, though I tend to lean in favour of the position that it is, albiet impossibly complex to the point of being unreplicable by artificial means. Our personalities and consciousness in general certainly can't exist in that manner seeing as they are definitely contingent in part upon a system that isn't dualistic (i.e. the mind is not entirely seperate from the body), which is why I also think WBE is psuedoscientific garbage (and judging by the fact that the Shepalyst it results in killing the original organism in the MEverse just like it should, this logic is followed). 

In MEworld, by contrast, toasters certainly are "dualistic" in the sense that software analogous to a "mind"(for the sake of the analogy) and platforms to a "body" and are entirely independent of one another. Modifying a few lines of code produces infinitely replicable results of different behavior without any sort of physical damage (i.e. the Heretic virus, hacking ablities etc.).The moral calculus is different, especially considering that they are nonsentient by current definitons and seem incabable of the two things that moral consideration is contingent upon maximizing/ minimizing for organics (hedonistic pleasure and suffering). I don't see anything inherently wrong with controlling or destroying an ME synthetic for whatever reason, unless it is in doing something blatantly criminal like stealing /hacking/ vandalizing someone else's property, or an act motivated by ignorance like pursuing an ideology outside of maximizing organic utility/happiness (i.e. Luddism).

Now, if it were theoretically possible to create a sentient artificial being virtually indistinguishable from an animal or human in conscious perception, the argument would become more muddy ( I would still be against it because it is grossly unethical), but that isn't the case here. Geth VI/Legion told me that even it thinks geth aren't "alive" unless they're injected with Reaper Pinnochio magic, and EDI does likewise with only declaring itself to be "alive" after synthesis so I absolutely don't see any problem with deeming them merely complex technologies if that's exactly what they've concluded themselves.

I've not played Talos Principle, though. The premise looks interesting enough but I'm not one for puzzle games. This is all grossly off topic though. Sorry OP.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

I just beat ME2 again and had Miranda and a non-romanced Jacob with me. Shepard caught Jacob and then he returned the favor. Same happened with Tali. When I took Thane, Shepard caught him but a romanced Garrus pulled her up.

Hmm. Was Miranda loyal? I assume she had to be, since she survived the fight, but still. According to that list above, it should have been Miranda who helped Shep on in the first example. If she was loyal, then... I dunno. 

[Mlady]

Hmm. Was Miranda loyal? I assume she had to be, since she survived the fight, but still. According to that list above, it should have been Miranda who helped Shep on in the first example. If she was loyal, then... I dunno. 

 

Yeah they were all loyal and it surprised me. I was expecting her since Tali and Garrus switched places (I catch them/they catch me), and Jack and Thane did too.