200 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

I strongly oppose class-based weapon restrictions.

ME3 did this really well. If you wanted the advantage if carrying a single weapon, you had the freedom to choose which weapon that was.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Classes are pointless if late game allow you to develop your character in any way you wan't.

This is a good thing.

[Lady Artifice]

I don't have strong feelings about class based weapon restrictions, but I agree with OP about preferring that each class be a distinct experience from one another.

 

I'd also enjoy more class related dialogue.

[Gamemako]

I strongly oppose class-based weapon restrictions.

ME3 did this really well. If you wanted the advantage if carrying a single weapon, you had the freedom to choose which weapon that was.

I feel that they should really try to make the system more versatile again. ME has been a bit of a learning process. We started with ME1's ambitious but awkward setup, progressed to ME2's more refined but painfully limiting system, then opened up to ME3's mix of the two. It's time BioWare take the lessons from ME3MP and use them to revive ME1's systems and do them better.

In my opinion:

• Classes should remain. In practice, because all methods are represented already, the value of making a completely freeform system is outweighed by the difficulty in designing, communicating, and balancing such a system. In an perpetual experience like an MMORPG, you can rebalance iteratively post-release as your players figure out the mistakes you made. In single-player adventures, you get one and done. Better to sacrifice some ambition to make the problem space more manageable.
• The GCD system should be re-tuned into an energy reserve system. An example of this would be the Phantasy Star series post-PSP (most recently, Phantasy Star Online 2). A limited but regenerating resource lets you combine powers more thoughtfully rather than having all powers result in the outcome of complete power lockout for a duration.
• The 3 classes of armor from ME1 should make a return. Lighter armors should be more maneuverable and have faster power recovery. We more or less already have this in ME3 multiplayer, where other species and certain special setups like N7 Destroyer are heavily armored versions of their archetypes. A light-armor Vanguard should be like a Drell or Human, launching in and blasting everyone to kingdom come while being exceedingly hard to slow down. A heavy-armor Vanguard would be more like a Battlemaster, trucking in and crashing the party. Light armor adept would be like the N7 Fury. Heavy armor adept would be like a Krogan (again). In between, a Justicar. Light armor Soldier, Vorcha. Heavy armor soldier, N7 Destroyer. Medium armor, Turian. You get the idea. Combined with changes to the power cooldown system, you can change both movement, power reservoir, and power recharge to balance the armor sets.
• All classes should have access to all weapons. I think I may have beat this horse enough by now. Number of weapons and actively-equipped weapon can contribute to power and movement factors, though I would not have nearly the individual weight of ME3 weapons. Changing your power cooldown from 3.08s to 8 seconds just for equipping one weapon isn't going to encourage anyone to use that weapon unless it's game-breakingly overpowered. That all weapons contributed full weight even while holstered was that much worse: unless you had trouble running out of ammunition regularly, you were heavily discouraged from taking more than one tool. Making everyone hammer one peg into every hole is a waste of the development time spent on all those other pegs.
• Pistols should be an emergency sidearm only, available to all classes and always with the ME1 overheat system instead of thermal clips. Unlimited ammo backup in a pinch.

[Jedi Comedian]

What made the Soldier class special was being able to use every weapon, so yeah, in ME3 the other classes feel like Soldiers with powers. I too would like to go back to ME2 restrictions.

[Killroy]

What made the Soldier class special was being able to use every weapon, so yeah, in ME3 the other classes feel like Soldiers with powers. I too would like to go back to ME2 restrictions.

Why is taking things away from other classes the way to make one class better? It's entirely illogical. They need to make the Soldier better, not every other class worse.

[Jedi Comedian]

Then maybe giving the Soldier some new powers that are unique or something like that, I just wanna have a pure Fighter class but with a bit more complexity and uniqueness.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Classes should remain. In practice, because all methods are represented already, the value of making a completely freeform system is outweighed by the difficulty in designing, communicating, and balancing such a system. In an perpetual experience like an MMORPG, you can rebalance iteratively post-release as your players figure out the mistakes you made. In single-player adventures, you get one and done.

I've never liked that about MMORPGs. I think they should adjust the enounters rather than change the rules. The rules should be intrinsic to the setting.

So single-player is superior in that regard. One-and-done is how things should be.

But that'sno reason not to have a deeper ruleset. Communicating it to the players is simply a mattter of documentation; if the players don't read it, that's their problem

Pistols should be an emergency sidearm only, available to all classes and always with the ME1 overheat system instead of thermal clips. Unlimited ammo backup in a pinch.

I love this idea.

[Vegeta 77]

I hate weapon Restrictions keep it like ME3 let the player have choice with the weapons. 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I would prefer to have weapon restrictions for classes that players can choose (in single player). What I mean here is that when you start the single player campaign and you choose your character's class, you should pick their weapon proficiency and this cannot be altered.

 

As for multiplayer, I am in favor of restricting the number of types of weapons each classes can have. Personally, caster classes should be allowed to only carry a single type weapon (it can be any type weapon but only one) whereas hybrid classes can carry two weapon types and soldiers can carry either three weapon types or two weapon types and a heavy weapon. It would give a more compelling reason to play as the soldier class.

[Balkankerverkoper]

No thank you. Those weapon restrictions kept me from enjoying playing other classes than soldier.

[MGW7]

I think the problem was in what exactly was changed by the weapon weight, and the fact some weapons had insane weight to power ratios.

 

The first thing is that all weapons need a somewhat uniform ratio of power to weight, and the ones that are particularly good in this way need significant drawbacks.

Once this first step is sorted all other things can be more easily fixed.

 

Give weight more effect on powers, cooldown just didn't do it unless you went to one extreme or the other, and the way it stacked made min max less useful.

I suggest giving weight an effect on powers' damage and radius, less significant than the cooldown bonus of 3 (Grenades excluded)

 

This can then be counter balanced by giving combat classes effects that are not effected by this, penalizing them less than other classes, Adrenalin rush for example would not have a radius or damage to buff, so high bonuses would not be needed for a class using that power, other things like focusing on greades, knock down, and self buffs rather than damage dealing powers them selves. This naturally gives the soldiers more reasons to use heavy weaponry, Like the N7 Destroyer, who always carried 2 powerful heavy weapons because the cooldown bonus meant nothing to him 99% of the time,

 

This allows you to make the classes more distinct, but only as long as the weapon weight is made more prominent.

[capn233]

I've already stated why it makes no sense for pistols to be anything but sidearms for convenience. Handguns by their very nature are underpowered, inaccurate at longer range, and harder to use effectively than long guns. It takes a hell of a lot longer to learn to use a 9mm auto effectively than a rifle or shotgun (shotguns are a little trickier than rifles due to the amount you have to lead moving targets -- the pellets are deceptively slow). You give up all of these things for portability. Having someone who is "trained in pistols" yet unable to use rifles FAR more effectively flies in the face of all fact and reason, and is not helped in the least by the game's use of pistols for the exact opposite thing they actually do. Heavy pistols are like using a crossbow as a melee-range weapon, or a sword for sniping enemies 400 years away. It makes no sense from top to bottom.

 

This is a common video game, and to extent cinema, trope and it is unlikely to be changed for ME4.
 

Heavy melee damage reduction without Charge will not nearly reach the required 150% damage reduction with Barrier or Tech Armor applied.

 

This is basically true, but the number for no damage taken out of cover is 140%
 

The mechanics in terms of what buttons to push are slightly different between reload cancelling and attack animation cancelling, but the result is the same, increasing DPS.

That's why I posted it here, both exploits abrogate the penalties associated with different weapons, increasing DPS.

Explicitly allowed in ME, not addressed either way in DA.

I bet you are right though, the dev's probably aimed to somehow not allow it in DAI, they just had a shite-load of bigger thing to fix, and ran out of time.

My point is; if there are penalties associated with different weapons, I.e weight, firing rate, attack speed, etc, and an exploit makes these penalties either less in severity or even inconsequential, why is deemed copacetic in either?

If the design supposedly takes such things into account, wouldn't the dev's come out and state that? Instead we get ambiguous answers (ME), or none, DAI.

Seems to me they could easily be more clear. And consistent.

 

There doesn't need to be any consistency between Dragon Age and Mass Effect, they are separate franchises that are fairly different after all.

 

As far as Mass Effect is concerned, there isn't an exploit for reload canceling.  At least not if you take the developer's word at face value.  I don't find that they necessarily have a duty to present all of their reasoning behind balancing changes to the players, but it is likely that reload canceling times were taken into account when balancing, unless you want to assume they wanted single shot weapons to be poor.

[Mechler]

I'm all for any new feature that makes our choices during character creation or during the story more meaningful.

Can I have  a soldier like class (as in no tech or biotics) that uses lighter weapons and armor but is quicker? Maybe one that dual wields? Nobody dual wields in mass effect for some reason. Or a sniper. Snipers don't usually wear heavy armor.

[capn233]

I'm all for any new feature that makes our choices during character creation or during the story more meaningful.

Can I have  a soldier like class (as in no tech or biotics) that uses lighter weapons and armor but is quicker? Maybe one that dual wields? Nobody dual wields in mass effect for some reason. Or a sniper. Snipers don't usually wear heavy armor.

Well it seems like many people would like to bring back armor tiers, and speed would be a decent way to differentiate them.

 

I am against dual wielding for a variety of reasons, predominantly because it is bad for weapon balance.

[Mechler]

Well it seems like many people would like to bring back armor tiers, and speed would be a decent way to differentiate them.

 

I am against dual wielding for a variety of reasons, predominantly because it is bad for weapon balance.

 

Well unless some weapons are specifically designed for dual wielding. Or DW is just used to compensate for the lack of special tech and biotic abilities.

I don't know. I just find it weird that nobody does it. Not even enemies. It's just not a thing in the whole galaxy.

[Wulfram]

Well unless some weapons are specifically designed for dual wielding. Or DW is just used to compensate for the lack of special tech and biotic abilities.
I don't know. I just find it weird that nobody does it. Not even enemies. It's just not a thing in the whole galaxy.

Well, its not much of a thing on this planet either

[capn233]

Well, its not much of a thing on this planet either

 

They should only introduce it in MEA if you can also slide down stairs at the same time.

 

[Killroy]

I'm all for any new feature that makes our choices during character creation or during the story more meaningful.
Can I have  a soldier like class (as in no tech or biotics) that uses lighter weapons and armor but is quicker? Maybe one that dual wields? Nobody dual wields in mass effect for some reason. Or a sniper. Snipers don't usually wear heavy armor.

 

Because it's stupid.

[Mechler]

Well, its not much of a thing on this planet either

True I guess. It's very impractical in real life. Of course if we could have sci fi helmets with advanced targeting computers, it could work. Or you know there could totally be aliens with alien eyes who can focus at two targets at once. DW doesn't have to be a player option.

 

They should only introduce it in MEA if you can also slide down stairs at the same time.

 

It's only natural.

[Wulfram]

Technically don't the heavy mechs dual wield a mini gun and a rocket launcher?

[MichaelN7]

Uhm, I meant that I don't need weapon after charge at all, thanks to improved melee, but I need some decent range weapon when Charge is too risky.

Thanks for clarifiying, your post was a bit muddled.

 

But anyway, that's what the Shotgun Smart-Choke is for, it makes the shotgun longer-range.

Several of the Heavy Pistols fit the bill without being too heavy, such as the Phalanx or Eagle.

Others like the Carnifex or Paladin are heavier with slower fire-rates and have smaller clips, but hit with greater power.

If you want a Sniper Rifle, then the Raptor is good, since it's lightweight, semi-auto, and has a good clip-size.

The Valiant works too, since it has virtually no recoil and one of the fastest reload times.

As for Assault Rifles, the Avenger is always a safe bet, as is the Harrier.

For SMG's, the Stability Mod makes these weapons super-accurate, so any SMG with it is suitable, the only downside is that SMG's aren't very powerful, so unless you use Incendiary or at least Cryo ammo, you'll be burning through thermal clips at an alarming rate, the possible exception is the Hurricane; it is very powerful for an SMG, but suffers from low accuracy at longer ranges, which the mod easily compensates.

 

So there you have it, hope it helps, take it for what you will.

[Mechler]

Technically don't the heavy mechs dual wield a mini gun and a rocket launcher?

 

They do, but those are more like vehicles than characters.

[Dantriges]

Dual wielding ranged weapons? Yeah sure....   It´s already stupid in most cases of melee weapons unless we are talking about parry weapons.

 

You can apply rule of cool or so, but they are already dime a dozen.

[BohemiaDrinker]

I don't like class restrictions. Maybe class specific bonuses, I could deal with that.