Sending her to Hackett would be better. She can help translate the plans. Its funny Ashley/Kaidan can be sent to him., but not her. What can Ashley/Kaidan contribute to the project?
I remember Kaidan getting his biotic squad back into action while Ashley pick up some random grunts. Neither contribute to the Crucible project. Even Jacob work as security.
Then again, I would happily trade Liara for anyone... she should stay with the Crucible project and coordinating with Hackett, not piggy back on my warship and stealing my XO office like she isn't a galactic criminal figure or anything.
Sending her to Hackett would be better. She can help translate the plans. Its funny Ashley/Kaidan can be sent to him., but not her. What can Ashley/Kaidan contribute to the project?
I agree with this so much! Liara is the Shadow Broker with all these contacts and agents to co-ordinate. The other thing she brings to the team is her knowledge of Protheans. So surely she should be working on the Crucible. She seems completely wasted just being a soldier on the Normandy, when any of our former companions could fill that slot. Especially Miranda, after Sanctuary. There was no reason why she couldn't join us then.
I posted this on another thread a few weeks ago -
"
I agree that bioware should treat the romances like they were done in Witcher 3 - Sex happens mid game, not to soon or too late and maybe more than once, but it should not become the be all and end all of the romance.
The characters must continue to talk and interact with eachother for the other half of the game as if they were indeed in a relationship, maybe even some missions/quests end up playing out differently."
Also why the hell am I the only one who loved the massive ME2 squad and thought it was the best.
I like the trilogy just like everyone but it doesn't mean we can't overlook some of it. Yes, the twelve squadmates in ME2 is wonderful but I find that had ME2 have the same power mechanics as in ME1 and ME3 (as in, they can have more than two working abilities to choose from), you probably will need half that number. In higher difficulties especially, biotic-only squadmates (Jacob, Jack, Samara, Thane) are ineffective for most of the game especially since they only work well against Collectors (which pop up in Horizon, Collector Ship and Collector base) while the rest of the game, you'll be fighting mostly Shield/Armor/Mech enemy variants in which only make Miranda useful as Sentinel. I learn to value Mordin more because of his combos and he work great. I like that Kasumi are a lot more aggressive infiltrator-class than Garrus who still squishy. Grunt and Zaeed work wonderful as defensive and aggressive tanks. Meanwhile, Legion and Tali are only effective against Geth and Mechs. So... I ended up still having to choose from a limited pool depending on the fight I'm facing, some of them might as well stay as NPCs (I'm looking at you Jacob).
I'm not surprised that they killed off some of them. Yes, the characters are a lot more interesting but you hardly see them interact with each other in the ship and most conversations you have was one-sided... it was just as sad as in ME1 but strangely lonelier...
I like the trilogy just like everyone but it doesn't mean we can't overlook some of it. Yes, the twelve squadmates in ME2 is wonderful but I find that had ME2 have the same power mechanics as in ME1 and ME3 (as in, they can have more than two working abilities to choose from), you probably will need half that number. In higher difficulties especially, biotic-only squadmates (Jacob, Jack, Samara, Thane) are ineffective for most of the game especially since they only work well against Collectors (which pop up in Horizon, Collector Ship and Collector base) while the rest of the game, you'll be fighting mostly Shield/Armor/Mech enemy variants in which only make Miranda useful as Sentinel. I learn to value Mordin more because of his combos and he work great. I like that Kasumi are a lot more aggressive infiltrator-class than Garrus who still squishy. Grunt and Zaeed work wonderful as defensive and aggressive tanks. Meanwhile, Legion and Tali are only effective against Geth and Mechs. So... I ended up still having to choose from a limited pool depending on the fight I'm facing, some of them might as well stay as NPCs (I'm looking at you Jacob).
I'm not surprised that they killed off some of them. Yes, the characters are a lot more interesting but you hardly see them interact with each other in the ship and most conversations you have was one-sided... it was just as sad as in ME1 but strangely lonelier...
I'm trying to take Jacob with me this playthrough for RP, but sheesh he seems useless. It's not just me then? He really doesn't do much.
The squad is full of good characters in ME2, but could've benefited from some editing. If they had cut 2-4 ppl then more time could have been spent developing the others and giving them more varied combat options. The added benefit being a few more convos with the remaining guys on the Normandy, and more interesting banter on missions.
They also wouldn't have been left with a glut of characters to have to sort out come ME3.
FWIW, I could have happily never have known Jacob, Samara and Thane and not even felt their loss. But then I never was a fan of old frog face. 
I know I know he has ardent fans, I'm just yet to see it. I'll try harder, promise. 
I'm trying to take Jacob with me this playthrough for RP, but sheesh he seems useless. It's not just me then? He really doesn't do much.
The squad is full of good characters in ME2, but could've benefited from some editing. If they had cut 2-4 ppl then more time could have been spent developing the others and giving them more varied combat options. The added benefit being a few more convos with the remaining guys on the Normandy, and more interesting banter on missions.
They also wouldn't have been left with a glut of characters to have to sort out come ME3.
FWIW, I could have happily never have known Jacob, Samara and Thane and not even felt their loss. But then I never was a fan of old frog face.
I know I know he has ardent fans, I'm just yet to see it. I'll try harder, promise.
I guess different people have different playthroughs, I used Samara extensively and she and Grunt make one hell of a steamroller team. Thane is also quite useful.
But yeah Jacob? not so much. Same as with Jack. She died too quickly.
In fact the whole character locked weapons were a bad idea.
I guess different people have different playthroughs, I used Samara extensively and she and Grunt make one hell of a steamroller team. Thane is also quite useful.
But yeah Jacob? not so much. Same as with Jack. She died too quickly.
In fact the whole character locked weapons were a bad idea.
I meant more as characters not so much their combat skills which, if there were less characters, could have been re-assigned so that everyone had more strings to their bow.
I meant more as characters not so much their combat skills which, if there were less characters, could have been re-assigned so that everyone had more strings to their bow.
Well I liked Samara as a character and Thane. I liked their loyalty quests too.
Well I liked Samara as a character and Thane. I liked their loyalty quests too.
Samara shows a very different side to the Asari which is interesting. I was simply suggesting who I could enjoy ME2 without if they had indeed cut a couple of characters, that's all.
Everyone would pick different people and honestly I hesitated to even say who I'd cut as I knew there'd be disagreements. I was just explaining my point and who I personally wouldn't have missed.
I'm trying to take Jacob with me this playthrough for RP, but sheesh he seems useless. It's not just me then? He really doesn't do much.
The squad is full of good characters in ME2, but could've benefited from some editing. If they had cut 2-4 ppl then more time could have been spent developing the others and giving them more varied combat options. The added benefit being a few more convos with the remaining guys on the Normandy, and more interesting banter on missions.
They also wouldn't have been left with a glut of characters to have to sort out come ME3.
FWIW, I could have happily never have known Jacob, Samara and Thane and not even felt their loss. But then I never was a fan of old frog face.
I know I know he has ardent fans, I'm just yet to see it. I'll try harder, promise.
Jacob is just as lame in gameplay as he is as a character. The only thing potentially useful about him is incendiary ammo, but I run a Vanguard, so it's meaningless. Jack at least can join Shepard in spamming shockwave.
In the end, a lot of characters got benched throughout the game. Jacob, Thane, Samara, Kasumi and Mordin pretty much stayed where they were most of the time. The best thing about Thane for me was his recruitment mission. It was nice seeing Nassana Dantius again, just to see her get her just desserts.
Jacob is just as lame in gameplay as he is as a character. The only thing potentially useful about him is incendiary ammo, but I run a Vanguard, so it's meaningless. Jack at least can join Shepard in spamming shockwave.
In the end, a lot of characters got benched throughout the game. Jacob, Thane, Samara, Kasumi and Mordin pretty much stayed where they were most of the time. The best thing about Thane for me was his recruitment mission. It was nice seeing Nassana Dantius again, just to see her get her just desserts.
Ah yes, very satisfying to see her some to a sticky end. 
I'm a Sentinel right now and have Jack with me on the derelict reaper. Shockwave is so damn useful for the never ending groups of husks.
Jacob and Jack is great on Normal playthrough where you get mostly unprotected enemies. Jacob will Pull and the destroy with his Incendiary-ammo shotgun. While I usually pair Jack with Squad Cryo Ammo and there's a lot of ice breaking and exploding. Zaeed, Thane and Garrus also fair well together in Normal playthrough since they're quite aggressive with their sniper rifles but Zaeed shine because of his unlimited Inferno grenades. Very facerolling.
I love what Samara bring into the lore as an Asari Justicar and she was definitely more interesting than Liara. It was sad that she couldn't be allowed more expanded story in ME3 and more association to the Asari culture and religion. She could have given Shepard the information about Vendetta on Thessia. Thane could have existed in ME1 as your opponent while facing off Nassana's sister and his story could have developed more instead his existence was defaulted into suicide by running onto a sword. Jacob only existed because a mobile game which hardly anyone plays. Not sure why the bump him as a love interest until to shaft him in the next game. But I like that Bioware learn from their mistake and give me Koth Vortena who is a much better and complex version of Jacob Taylor.
Samara shows a very different side to the Asari which is interesting. I was simply suggesting who I could enjoy ME2 without if they had indeed cut a couple of characters, that's all.
Everyone would pick different people and honestly I hesitated to even say who I'd cut as I knew there'd be disagreements. I was just explaining my point and who I personally wouldn't have missed.
Yeah i adore ME2, favourite game of the trilogy. That said it could have done with pruning one or two.
Morinth as a squaddie is half baked and probably shouldn't have made it into the game imo.
I'd be tempted to say Jacob but i think the human male was a needed idea but just the actual character a flop. Outside of that as you say there would no doubt be disagreements, as personally Kasumi is a go to character for me alongside Miranda but no doubt for others she'd be seen as prunable.
Garrus and Zaeed were pretty much my N7 A-Team most of the time. I just wish there was more banter in ME. You have all these colorful characters, and they barely spoke to one another.
Yeah i adore ME2, favourite game of the trilogy. That said it could have done with pruning one or two.
Morinth as a squaddie is half baked and probably shouldn't have made it into the game imo.
I'd be tempted to say Jacob but i think the human male was a needed idea but just the actual character a flop. Outside of that as you say there would no doubt be disagreements, as personally Kasumi is a go to character for me alongside Miranda but no doubt for others she'd be seen as prunable.
I love Kasumi and Miranda, my first femShep guided Miranda away from Cerberus and chipped away at her icy exterior...I enjoyed their friendship and seeing who Miranda really was without being in a romance with her.
As for Kasumi her badass stealthy-ness and little bits of dialogue are really enjoyable for me. I'm so sad she was relegated to a DLC and almost non-existent in ME3. 
Garrus and Zaeed were pretty much my N7 A-Team most of the time. I just wish there was more banter in ME. You have all these colorful characters, and they barely spoke to one another.
Yup. It was one of the most wonderful things about ME3, seeing the crew interact on the Normandy and then banter with each other on missions. I wish it had been that way from the start.
Times sure have changed. Remember the Mass Effect sideboob controversy? DA:I shows full boob and nary a peep.
Spanking. Can spanking be in?
Indeed, I want more dates in-between. Or private alone time when we feel like it. And no blue-skinned stalkers.
Agree. I liked the private conversation MaleShep had with Ashley at Apollo's Cafe (ME-3), and want to see more of this; just not over done. Also, when MaleShep and Ashley talked about almost shooting each other. These are the scenes where we learn the personal sides and depth of our characters, and what makes them tick. I would like to see dialog wheel options in the Investigate tree to make alternate location get-togethers possible with a L.I.: A) Let's talk in the atrium; B. Return; C) We'll use the Mako for a private location, so others can't listen in; D) Tell another squad mate to leave their room so the two of you can talk privately.; E) Let's meet at the ship's bar in the library. F) Let's have a cup of coffee/tea together at the crew mess table. How about having a personal conversation while slow dancing at a club? It was fun to see MaleShep bug Ashley when see's waking up with a hang-over: "I could have Joker sing to you." "Maybe we should test the fire alarm." Very satisfying.
Using the Investigate options seems to me to be an easy way for us romantics to pursue the L.I. relationship, and an easy way to avoid it all together for those who eschew the notion of romance progression.
Less front loaded stuff. A lot of times the romances are composed of a few conversations and then an awkwardly animated bump and grind, i would like to see it bleed into the story instead.
I know, it didn't even occur to me first time round, it was the second run when I started to think 'why isn't anyone giving me grief over this???'
At least Tali makes a stand. Or a jump.
In ME-1, Wrex vehemently questioned Shepard's judgement on Virmire, at gun point, when the outcome meant Saren's genophage cure would be destroyed.
In ME-2, the lover's spat at the end of the Horizon mission was a good example of questioning Shepard's actions, which affected their evolving relationship.
In ME-3, Ashley/Kaiden questioned Shepard's judgement when they were protecting Udina.
Back to OP's thread:
Relationships are a long-term negotiation.
I prefer Meer for my more 'professional dispassionate soldier' types, and Hale for my more passionate Sheps.
To: ArcadiaGrey
Numerous voice actors/actresses have stated in interviews that it's difficult to get the right 'tone' or emphasis in emotion when they are simply speaking their lines solo in the recording booth. That's their 'job' but it's still not an easy task, even for experienced actors/actresses. Actress Jen Taylor (who voices Cortana in the Halo franchise) said in several interviews that she was allowed only two or three attempts to say a specific line - and then she had to move on when she felt she could do better in another 'take.' Check out her comments in her E3 2013 interview on Youtube (Time code 2:30). Jen's emotional voicing for Cortana's parting words to Master Chief at the end of Halo 4 is hand's down one of the best voice acting efforts I've heard in a game. See here. Time code 0:49. How well would any of us do while speaking these very same lines while recording solo in a recording booth? She mentioned in another interview that voicing is different when two actors are participating together in the motion capture work vs. voicing solo in a recording booth.
I feel that an important part in 'romance mechanics' must include the writing (dialog) that the voice actors have to work with (are restricted to); Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale had different romance lines to speak, even with Liara in ME-1. Were the lines spoken by Jennifer Hale to Kaiden and Liara better than the lines Mark Meer had to vocalize to Ashley and Liara? I 'dunno.' I do know that the quality of the writing can make or break an emotional scene, no matter how good the vocal talents are. After all, "if it's not on the page, then it's not on the stage." Try sounding romantic using someone else's words when you take your marriage vows - it isn't pretty. Now imagine being given your romance lines at your wedding mere moments before you say them. I can't really complain too hard about the romance dialog in ME when I haven't gone to the effort myself to write something better than what I'm listening to in ME. I also wonder how the romance dialog is put together. Does Bioware (or any game developer) enlist a man and a woman as a writing team (or a man and a man,etc) to work out the romance dialog to make it more realistic? I thought that this might be another aspect that can affect romance "mechanics."
3 - More cutscenes. I just romanced Iron Bull in my first DA:I run... They triggered all the way through the majority of the game so were well paced, and ended with a great scene on the balcony. I'd ask for that amount of dedicated content for every romance, I loved it.
Thoughts?
I too would like to see more romance/relationship dialog options/scenes woven throughout the Andromeda game.
Regarding romance mechanics:
Many have suggested that Andromeda have a toggle switch in Settings to exclude romance dialog/scenes altogether, or just disable the nude/exposed breast scenes in a M-Rated game. To satisfy both schools of thought, I suggest that all romance dialog be shunted to the Investigate choices in the dialog wheel. This gives everyone the clear choice to pursue or bypass them. Investigate options, as we all know, open up 5 possible choices, making additional L.I. dialog cutscenes feasible without interfering with the main plot. For relationship dialog options, it would allow for including three clearly defined choices such as "Lock-in", "Remain friendly," and "Not in my lifetime.", plus two more dialog options at a time.
At the zenith of the relationship choice at the end of Andromeda, the romance options in the dialog wheel should let the player decide whether they want to see a sex scene, and if so, whether it includes nudity or not. I prefer tasteful nudity showing curves without breasts being revealed; a tender, intimate moment. I've heard the arguments over the high costs to development 18 cutscenes (2x3x3 in this mechanic), but these three options should be available; the intimate cutscenes only last 4 seconds anyway.
I didn't like the relationship mechanics used for Tali's and Ashley's survival in ME-3. These depended on the outcomes of 6 previous choices with them across three different games. Way too complicated and a mechanic I would never have figured out (Thank you masseffect.wikia). I'm never going to attempt 6+ Trilogy replays to figure out where I went wrong. Way too complicated.
The glaring problem with romance mechanics in ME-2 is where MaleShep would be automatically locked-in with Miranda the moment she said: "I don't know what this is, if it's just stress, or blowing off steam, or..." Masseffect.wikia notes in the romance guide that "[y]ou cannot opt out; every option results in either becoming locked-in, or the relationship being broken off permanently." This is why I advocate for clearly delineated dialog choices where we can decide if we want to lock-in or not. And, turning down a potential L.I. should not cause the end of all conversations (between missions) with a squadmate for the rest of the game. Let those friendships develop too, but not usurp your current L.I. relationship unless you specifically decide to do so.
The protagonist's relationship with a L.I. should not be tied to the overall Reputation status accumulated from all other dialog choices. [the P/R dichotomy shouldn't even exist anyway.] Advancing the relationship should only be tied to the friendly or harsh comments that are chosen, and the number of conversations that occur. Getting locked-in could require all 8 of 8 conversations, and let any 2-3 of them allow renegade-type dialog choices without permanently ending the relationship. I liked seeing L.I.s Ashley and Kaiden be upset with Shepard for working with Cerberus, and later they sent a message after thinking about their relationship with Shepard. It would be great if a few conversations included humor and teasing/kidding around.
It would be a quagmire if relationship progression depended on whether the L.I. was included in missions. That mechanic would be no different than being forced to choosing only paragon or renegade dialog options to make later relationship dialogs available. I wouldn't want to go into battle with a weaker squad against one type of enemy (organic or synthetic; or not effective against barriers), just so I can keep the relationship alive. It's better to have a friendship-romance reputation system that is separate from persuasive reputation levels for all other game conversations. Interrupts should be used to alter the outcome of a L.I. conversation: A renegade-style action would back the relationship down, and a paragon-style interrupt would evolve the relationship closer. A relationship doesn't even need to be determined at the end of each game. For role playing, going back and forth with a L.I. over two full games could make it seem more realistic: we each help the other wear down the rough edges over time. It would take brilliant writing to explore these permutations, but there is accomplishment in gradually coming to your senses. See here.
Maybe it's best that the protagonist has friendly conversations with all three L.I. options available for that gender, all the way through the game, and cannot lock-in until the very end - a final choice near, during, or right after the final battle. Build the relationship and passionate tension over time. MaleShep and Ashley's complete romance arc proves the point. "Boldly they rode and well."
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