995 réponses à ce sujet

[Midnight Bliss]

How about the ability to choose your sexual position and toggle through multiple "intimate moment" POV?

[Chealec]

Golden showers ... just so some poor muppet at BioWare would have to work out how to animate it.

 

... and get the liquid physics right.

[Midnight Bliss]

Golden showers ... just so some poor muppet at BioWare would have to work out how to animate it.

 

... and get the liquid physics right.

[Bruno Hslaw]

I would prefer more of the game and no actual love interests at all.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Golden showers ... just so some poor muppet at BioWare would have to work out how to animate it.

... and get the liquid physics right.

Do you even know what a "golden shower" is???

[Chealec]

Do you even know what a "golden shower" is???

 

Ye-es ... do you? My statement makes perfect sense.

 

Unless it means something different in your part of the world to mine...

[Chealec]

 

 

^ and by that response, I'm guessing Midnight Bliss knows what a golden shower is too

[Onewomanarmy]

Lol

[ThomasBlaine]

No dialogue absent of the sex isn't much better at representing the nature of the relationship. Dialogue and visuals are both needed. Your notion is robbing peter to pay Paul in my eyes.

 

Most of the greatest romantic classics ever either written or filmed feature lots of dialogue and zero visual sex scenes. Your argument is objectively wrong. I also reiterate: No Mass Effect game to date has allowed the protagonist to enter anything but the beginning weeks of a consistent relationship, if even that, before being separated from his/her new partner. Name any one LI you'd call Shepard's boy/girlfriend and I'll tell you why that would never be considered an actual established relationship in real life. Getting no father than intimate talks and maybe second base over the course of your average Bioware game would in no way make the characters prudes.

 

Considering the colonization theme, Andromeda might take place over a much longer period of time than any previous ME. That would make it more natural for romance to develop into sex over the course of the story, but then I damn well also want to see the characters spend a LOT more time together socially, and I want to see them in a real relationship instead of the weird fantasy-military equivalent of schoolyard romances punctuated by sex and interrupted by months and years spent apart.

 

I'm not saying that sex isn't a natural part of conventional relationships, just that video games absolutely suck at showing it and I don't need to see that to know that my character is very close to someone, and I certainly don't need to see it used to demonstrate that people who have known each other for weeks and months at the most really are "in love".

[Chealec]

...

 

That would make it more natural for romance to develop into sex over the course of the story, but then I damn well also want to see the characters spend a LOT more time together socially, and I want to see them in a real relationship ...

 

 

How long would you say you'd need to spend with someone before bumping ugly?

 

I've been with my partner for nearly 20 years... we were in bed together within 2 days of meeting. I'd say it goes the other way around, lust can more commonly evolve into love than love into lust?

[ThomasBlaine]

How long would you say you'd need to spend with someone before bumping ugly?

 

I've been with my partner for nearly 20 years... we were in bed together within 2 days of meeting.

 

Statistically, modern women in the perfect circumstances for happy and relatively carefree relationships who are even actively looking for it don't have sex before the fifth date. I'm not saying that getting into bed together in the first week can't be a kickass start to a relationship, just that the "I think I'm in love with you too, stranger I met the day before yesterday. Shall we consummate our union and make it official?" thing isn't everything an RPG romance can be, and that I have doubts about the supposed depth of that relationship two years later when the characters meet again after the apparent death or incarceration of one of them.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Golden showers ... just so some poor muppet at BioWare would have to work out how to animate it.

 

... and get the liquid physics right.

When you think you've seen it all on these forums 

[wright1978]

Most of the greatest romantic classics ever either written or filmed feature lots of dialogue and zero visual sex scenes. Your argument is objectively wrong. I also reiterate: No Mass Effect game to date has allowed the protagonist to enter anything but the beginning weeks of a consistent relationship, if even that, before being separated from his/her new partner. Name any one LI you'd call Shepard's boy/girlfriend and I'll tell you why that would never be considered an actual established relationship in real life. Getting no father than intimate talks and maybe second base over the course of your average Bioware game would in no way make the characters prudes.

 

Considering the colonization theme, Andromeda might take place over a much longer period of time than any previous ME. That would make it more natural for romance to develop into sex over the course of the story, but then I damn well also want to see the characters spend a LOT more time together socially, and I want to see them in a real relationship instead of the weird fantasy-military equivalent of schoolyard romances punctuated by sex and interrupted by months and years spent apart.

 

I'm not saying that sex isn't part of a natural conventional relationship, just that video games absolutely suck at showing it and I don't need to see that to know that my character is very close to someone, and I certainly don't need to see it used to demonstrate that people who have known each other for weeks and months at the most really are "in love".

 

I dispute your claim that many of the great on screen romances don't deal with visualising the sexual element in some manner.

I also dispute the notion that characters over the span of years in the case of Shep or case of many months in the case of most singular installments standard would be restricted to intimate dialogue, especially given the external factors.  I think your suggestion is the height of prudery.

[ThomasBlaine]

I dispute your claim that many of the great on screen romances don't deal with visualising the sexual element in some manner.

I also dispute the notion that characters over the span of years in the case of Shep or case of many months in the case of most singular installments standard would be restricted to intimate dialogue, especially given the external factors.  I think your suggestion is the height of prudery.

 

"Visualizing the sexual element in some manner"? Don't make me laugh, your argument was that every fictional romance needs to show the sex or it doesn't seem like a compelling relationship, which is obviously rubbish.

 

Firstly, Shepard spends a total of two or so months at most on-ship with any of the squadmates in the entire trilogy except for Kaiden. S/he spends two and a half years either dead or on house arrest with no visitors between games, and I don't see any reason to believe that any one of the games last more than two or three weeks, not with mere hours of travel time between locations.

 

That means that the squadmates spend a few weeks in proximity to Shepard on three different occasions over the more than two years and eight months the games span, with no communication inbetween. Shepard him/herself is only consciously alive for about eight of those months, six of which s/he spends locked up with no word from anyone, romanced or no. Yeah, totally enough time to forge a very complicated emotional bond with any one of several emotionally dysfunctional people who have to live their own lives between your lengthy and abrupt absences.

 

Secondly, I said nothing about characters being restricted to intimate talks or touching, I said that them simply not getting further than that over the course of one game would actually be pretty realistic, that I find the five-good-chats-and-now-let's-talk-blue-children model hard to take seriously at times, and that video game sex animations and atmospheres suck. Imagine that.

 

And thirdly, "external factors"? You mean constantly being in danger? Being - and feeling - responsible for trying to save an entire country/planet/galaxy? Seeing people die? Having to kill people yourself? Spending all your time on the road with strangers, going hungry at dirty campsites or reading terrifying and tragic war news about people you potentially know onboard a cramped military starship?

 

Contrary to popular belief, those aren't circumstances that actually prompt people to think about starting relationships.

[wright1978]

"Visualizing the sexual element in some manner"? Don't make me laugh, your argument was that every fictional romance needs to show the sex or it doesn't seem like a compelling relationship, which is obviously rubbish.

 

Firstly, Shepard spends a total of two or so months at most on-ship with any of the squadmates in the entire trilogy except for Kaiden. S/he spends two and a half years either dead or on house arrest with no visitors between games, and I don't see any reason to believe that any one of the games last more than two or three weeks, not with mere hours of travel time between locations.

 

That means that the squadmates spend a few weeks in proximity to Shepard on three different occasions over the more than two years and eight months the games span, with no communication inbetween. Shepard him/herself is only consciously alive for about eight of those months, six of which s/he spends locked up with no word from anyone, romanced or no. Yeah, totally enough time to forge a very complicated emotional bond with any one of several emotionally dysfunctional people who have to live their own lives between your lengthy and abrupt absences.

 

Secondly, I said nothing about characters being restricted to intimate talks or touching, I said that them simply not getting further than that over the course of one game would actually be pretty realistic, that I find the five-good-chats-and-now-let's-talk-blue-children model hard to take seriously at times, and that video game sex animations and atmospheres suck. Imagine that.

 

And thirdly, "external factors"? You mean constantly being in danger? Being - and feeling - responsible for trying to save an entire country/planet/galaxy? Seeing people die? Having to kill people yourself? Spending all your time on the road with strangers, going hungry at dirty campsites or reading terrifying and tragic war news about people you potentially know onboard a cramped military starship?

 

Contrary to popular belief, those aren't circumstances that actually prompt people to think about starting relationships.

 

Visualising the sexual component is exactly the right phrase, because getting across sexual element does not necessarily require hard core sex depiction.

 

Not sure where you are getting the 2 months from. I don't see any indication the games take place over a span of weeks, especially given arrival takes place in a different year to the rest of ME2 from the timeline online.

 

I disagree with your view over what would be a realistic relationship speed, dynamic or the sorts of topics that might come up with someone you've had a relationship with that's survived death and separation.

 

Living in danger and knowing that unless you act you may never get the chance as you could be dead is something that seems highly realistic for individuals to act more boldy romantically.

[ThomasBlaine]

Visualising the sexual component is exactly the right phrase, because getting across sexual element does not necessarily require hard core sex depiction.

 

Not sure where you are getting the 2 months from. I don't see any indication the games take place over a span of weeks, especially given arrival takes place in a different year to the rest of ME2 from the timeline online.

 

I disagree with your view over what would be a realistic relationship speed, dynamic or the sorts of topics that might come up with someone you've had a relationship with that's survived death and separation.

 

Living in danger and knowing that unless you act you may never get the chance as you could be dead is something that seems highly realistic for individuals to act more boldy romantically.

 

What do you mean by "visualizing the sexual component" then, that romantic classics haven't been able to do without?

 

Don't know where you get all the extra time, nobody behaves as if months or even weeks are going by, it wouldn't make sense given the speeds the Normandy travels at and how each mission leads immediately into the next, and the Arrival DLC is available way before you storm the Collector base.

 

In that case tell me about all the accounts of people meeting, falling in love and consummating the relationship during extended high-stress military operations, muggings, bombings, deadly accidents and terrorist attacks that I'm sure you must have ready to be able to make that claim. Love on the battlefield is an absolute myth, there's no indication whatsoever that emotional trauma and/or lethal danger or for that matter near-constant separation actually make people more inclined to start a relationship on the fly.

[In Exile]

"Visualizing the sexual element in some manner"? Don't make me laugh, your argument was that every fictional romance needs to show the sex or it doesn't seem like a compelling relationship, which is obviously rubbish.

Firstly, Shepard spends a total of two or so months at most on-ship with any of the squadmates in the entire trilogy except for Kaiden. S/he spends two and a half years either dead or on house arrest with no visitors between games, and I don't see any reason to believe that any one of the games last more than two or three weeks, not with mere hours of travel time between locations.

That means that the squadmates spend a few weeks in proximity to Shepard on three different occasions over the more than two years and eight months the games span, with no communication inbetween. Shepard him/herself is only consciously alive for about eight of those months, six of which s/he spends locked up with no word from anyone, romanced or no. Yeah, totally enough time to forge a very complicated emotional bond with any one of several emotionally dysfunctional people who have to live their own lives between your lengthy and abrupt absences.

Secondly, I said nothing about characters being restricted to intimate talks or touching, I said that them simply not getting further than that over the course of one game would actually be pretty realistic, that I find the five-good-chats-and-now-let's-talk-blue-children model hard to take seriously at times, and that video game sex animations and atmospheres suck. Imagine that.

And thirdly, "external factors"? You mean constantly being in danger? Being - and feeling - responsible for trying to save an entire country/planet/galaxy? Seeing people die? Having to kill people yourself? Spending all your time on the road with strangers, going hungry at dirty campsites or reading terrifying and tragic war news about people you potentially know onboard a cramped military starship?

Contrary to popular belief, those aren't circumstances that actually prompt people to think about starting relationships.

I'm not sure why you think a post about the morality of society long past our in is persuasive when it comes to how a romance may be portrayed. Ignoring that a lot of perceived romances that are tame today were not tame by their own standard, the fact that people long dead told romance stories a certain way is of no moment to the normative argument of how they should be told (apart from making a roundabout moral point).

[Akrabra]

How about the ability to choose your sexual position and toggle through multiple "intimate moment" POV?

So more or less quick time events? Or just changing the camera angle? 

[ThomasBlaine]

I'm not sure why you think a post about the morality of society long past our in is persuasive when it comes to how a romance may be portrayed. Ignoring that a lot of perceived romances that are tame today were not tame by their own standard, the fact that people long dead told romance stories a certain way is of no moment to the normative argument of how they should be told (apart from making a roundabout moral point).

 

I really don't see where morality comes into it or what I might have written that gave you that idea. Or why you labor under the impression that classic romances are generations old. I'm not talking about vintage poetry if that's what you mean.

[In Exile]

I really don't see where morality comes into it. And you seem to labor under the impression that classics are generations old. I'm not talking about vintage poetry if that's what you mean.

I'm talking about 1920s-1960s. Since this is about a visual medium we're presumably talking about movies, not books. And classics implies some distance from the period of time where we were all alive, so at the very least anything post 1990 is out. That leaves the 1970s and 1980s and I'm not sure I recall classic romantic movies from that period.

And this is a point about morality - because movies faced real censorship drives for quite some time and were fundamentally tied to the morals of contemporary American society that produced them. It doesn't really prove a point about the role of sex and nudity in a story.

[ThomasBlaine]

I'm talking about 1920s-1960s. Since this is about a visual medium we're presumably talking about movies, not books. And classics implies some distance from the period of time where we were all alive, so at the very least anything post 1990 is out. That leaves the 1970s and 1980s and I'm not sure I recall classic romantic movies from that period.

And this is a point about morality - because movies faced real censorship drives for quite some time and were fundamentally tied to the morals of contemporary American society that produced them. It doesn't really prove a point about the role of sex and nudity in a story.

 

Your point being that modern cinematic romances are only appreciated as romantic if they culminate in a graphic sex scene, and that the popularity of classic romances is irrelevant because the people censoring them were prudes?

 

Not that I don't get that sexual standards have evolved, but I don't see that we've reached quite that point yet. I also find it highly unlikely that people were less naturally interested in sex seventy years ago than we are today, and only enjoyed their prudish romantic entertainment because libidos somehow weren't invented back then. After all, it's not like those generations tripled the Earth's population or anything.

[Midnight Bliss]

So more or less quick time events? Or just changing the camera angle? 

[Andrew Lucas]

Visualising the sexual component is exactly the right phrase, because getting across sexual element does not necessarily require hard core sex depiction.

 

Not sure where you are getting the 2 months from. I don't see any indication the games take place over a span of weeks, especially given arrival takes place in a different year to the rest of ME2 from the timeline online.

 

I disagree with your view over what would be a realistic relationship speed, dynamic or the sorts of topics that might come up with someone you've had a relationship with that's survived death and separation.

 

Living in danger and knowing that unless you act you may never get the chance as you could be dead is something that seems highly realistic for individuals to act more boldy romantically.

 

Wright is so right... S2.

 

So more or less quick time events? Or just changing the camera angle? 

 

QTEs? 

    (͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Eckswhyzed]

I honestly don't give a toss about what we get to see - something long and well-animated or short and sweet, who really cares.

 

The thing I want the most is to not always have sex at the culmination of the romance arc. Let's have a little more variety, please - torrid and passionate affairs with lots of sex, relationships with no sex (or little physical intimacy with closeness shown in other ways), anything different than the usual "Oh I just talked to X after every mission and then at the end of the game we get a bedroom scene".

 

Another interesting thing to see would be romances that are a little less - perfect. Certainly we've had this kind of thing before - relationships with aspects of infidelity (Jacob) and consent (Alistair/Morrigan with the ritual) have been done. They'd have to be well-written to work well of course, but that goes without saying really.

 

Oh and please no gift-giving or approval meters.

[Mlady]

I honestly don't give a toss about what we get to see - something long and well-animated or short and sweet, who really cares.

 

The thing I want the most is to not always have sex at the culmination of the romance arc. Let's have a little more variety, please - torrid and passionate affairs with lots of sex, relationships with no sex (or little physical intimacy with closeness shown in other ways), anything different than the usual "Oh I just talked to X after every mission and then at the end of the game we get a bedroom scene".

 

Another interesting thing to see would be romances that are a little less - perfect. Certainly we've had this kind of thing before - relationships with aspects of infidelity (Jacob) and consent (Alistair/Morrigan with the ritual) have been done. They'd have to be well-written to work well of course, but that goes without saying really.

 

Oh and please no gift-giving or approval meters.

 

Lol yeah sex before Ilos, sex before the Suicide Mission and sex before we head to Earth. It's a bit too much the same. Sex after a crazy night partying in the DLC also counts because of the big goodbye talk in front of the Normandy in which Shepard says it'll probably be their last time together.