995 réponses à ce sujet

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

What I want is the ability to show favoritism, like these two are my best bros, this is my gal, and I want the whole crew to know it.

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

Whatever mechanics it takes for the romances to stop sounding like they were ripped straight out of a high school.

[aoibhealfae]

urgh, I friggin hate the whole Alistair having to bang Morrigan thing. "Alistair, darling, I love you but I need you to make baby with that witch you hate or one of us will die. Oh, apparently I can't have a baby with you because of my new darkspawn taint and yeah, I know your mom is a Grey Warden when she conceive you and I don't know, the power-that-be suddenly decide I'm magically infertile."

[Midnight Bliss]

urgh, I friggin hate the whole Alistair having to bang Morrigan thing. "Alistair, darling, I love you but I need you to make baby with that witch you hate or one of us will die. Oh, apparently I can't have a baby with you because of my new darkspawn taint and yeah, I know your mom is a Grey Warden when she conceive you and I don't know, the power-that-be suddenly decide I'm magically infertile."

Stuff like this is why I'm glad Space Husband's penis is Shep's private property and he wouldn't dream of banging some nasty Witch to have a monster baby.

[malloc]

Toy with the idea of the approval system again.

[Felya87]

urgh, I friggin hate the whole Alistair having to bang Morrigan thing. "Alistair, darling, I love you but I need you to make baby with that witch you hate or one of us will die. Oh, apparently I can't have a baby with you because of my new darkspawn taint and yeah, I know your mom is a Grey Warden when she conceive you and I don't know, the power-that-be suddenly decide I'm magically infertile."

Yeah. I hate all that stuff in DAO. Even if I love the game, I hated the double standard between male warden Magic penis and complete desert uterus of female warden.

[In Exile]

Your point being that modern cinematic romances are only appreciated as romantic if they culminate in a graphic sex scene, and that the popularity of classic romances is irrelevant because the people censoring them were prudes?

Not that I don't get that sexual standards have evolved, but I don't see that we've reached quite that point yet. I also find it highly unlikely that people were less naturally interested in sex seventy years ago than we are today, and only enjoyed their prudish romantic entertainment because libidos somehow weren't invented back then. After all, it's not like those generations tripled the Earth's population or anything.

No. I would really appreciate it if you didn't invent a position I never advanced and didn't use words I never used. I didn't say anything about "graphic" sex. I wrote about nudity. I also didn't call anyone a prude.

What I said was that movies that are "classicsl" were made at a different time and in respect of a different culture, so 1) this is not an argument for the universal merit of nudity in visual art and 2) the fact that by the standards of today these movies are tame does not mean they were equally tame when they came out.

I would appreciate you debating me and not some invented argument.

[fhs33721]

Just use the same romance mechanics as Dragon's Dogma. Oh no, wait..... Whatever you do don't use those romance mechanics.

[jlb524]

I just don't want any more forced romantic interactions. No more sounding flirty talking to Jacob. No more 'waking up with Javik' crap if Shep is single.

[Onewomanarmy]

I would like that standard sex scene before big suicide mission or big last mission to be placed earlier in the game instead. I think it's too late in the game to place it that late. 

[RevilFox]

I'd really like bedtime scenes. Not sex scenes (although I would also like those (come on female Iron Bull in Jack's body)), but scenes where you're in bed with your LI and you have conversations that feel like people in a real relationship have.

 

"How was your day?" "I condemned seventeen people to death, and I have no idea if what I did was right or not..." "Shhh, it's okay. I love you, and I trust you."

 

OR

 

"How was your day?" "I condemned seventeen people to death, and I have no idea if what I did was right or not..." ""Being you isn't easy, and the hardest part of being alive is living in uncertainty. I don't love what you did, but I love you and I support you. We'll get through this."

 

OR

 

"How as your day?" I condemned seventeen people to death, and I have no idea if what I did was right or not..." "Yeah, you've been naughty, ******, and I'm going to make you cry. The safe word is 'Moral Dilemma'". 

[ThomasBlaine]

No. I would really appreciate it if you didn't invent a position I never advanced and didn't use words I never used. I didn't say anything about "graphic" sex. I wrote about nudity. I also didn't call anyone a prude.

What I said was that movies that are "classicsl" were made at a different time and in respect of a different culture, so 1) this is not an argument for the universal merit of nudity in visual art and 2) the fact that by the standards of today these movies are tame does not mean they were equally tame when they came out.

I would appreciate you debating me and not some invented argument.

 

Ah, I see, I thought you were arguing Wright's point. You're right that old movies were made with a different formula in mind, but Hollywood's development and what people enjoy to see and read in their own homes have always been two separate things. People themselves have certainly not changed so much in their tastes that romance is absolutely reliant on on-screen sex or nudity to be touching, and making too much of those things compared to chemistry, time spent socially and even the practicality of a given relationship makes the romance look and feel shallow and immature even by modern standards.

 

I'm sorry for misreading your post.

[Pasquale1234]

I'd like to propose the renewal of a romance mechanic we haven't seen since DA:O, and that is the opportunity to kiss / bed the LI (or not) per the player's preferences - instead of once per game in a cutscene triggered "because it's time".

The way I see it working is that once the relationship has reached a certain point (is locked-in), additional repeatable options are made available on the dialogue wheel in specific situations: 1) When the PC visits the LI in their usual space, and 2) When the PC invites the LI to their cabin.

The options would include simply kissing them, perhaps some additional intimate dialogue (such as that suggested by RevilFox a couple of posts up), and a couple of different dialogue lines that would invite the LI to have sex. Once selected, a short cutscene suggesting foreplay would play (perhaps similar to the one from LotSB), then fade-to-black.

Such a system would allow much greater freedom in role-play and greater player agency as those intimate interactions would be repeatable and selectable per player's preference.

Plus, I wouldn't have to watch awkward sex scenes performed by pixelated puppets.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

No more "sister who is more appealing than the romancable companions". You know, Bethany vs. Isabela and Merrill. Imoen from Baldur's Gate too.

[In Exile]

Ah, I see, I thought you were arguing Wright's point. You're right that old movies were made with a different formula in mind, but Hollywood's development and what people enjoy to see and read in their own homes have always been two separate things. People themselves have certainly not changed so much in their tastes that romance is absolutely reliant on on-screen sex or nudity to be touching, and making too much of those things compared to chemistry, time spent socially and even the practicality of a given relationship makes the romance look and feel shallow and immature even by modern standards.

 

I'm sorry for misreading your post.

 

A few points. First, nudity is not just about a scene being "touching". This touches on discussions in the nudity thread, but nudity can also (and among other things) show and expand on feelings of vulnerability, intimacy and exposure. Second, sex - and the way one has it - is as much something that can show and illustrate character as anything else. Denying the narrative value in these is short-sighted. Third, this is not about what people "see and read" but rather about what best suits narrative development in a visual medium. 

[Draining Dragon]

No more "sister who is more appealing than the romancable companions". You know, Bethany vs. Isabela and Merrill. Imoen from Baldur's Gate too.

Imoen was more appealing than Viconia?

[Akrabra]

Imoen was more appealing than Viconia?

Aerie damnit! Why is Viconia so appealing? 

[wright1978]

No more "sister who is more appealing than the romancable companions". You know, Bethany vs. Isabela and Merrill. Imoen from Baldur's Gate too.

 

Hmm i vastly preferred Isabela & Jaheira.

[ThomasBlaine]

A few points. First, nudity is not just about a scene being "touching". This touches on discussions in the nudity thread, but nudity can also (and among other things) show and expand on feelings of vulnerability, intimacy and exposure. Second, sex - and the way one has it - is as much something that can show and illustrate character as anything else. Denying the narrative value in these is short-sighted. Third, this is not about what people "see and read" but rather about what best suits narrative development in a visual medium. 

 

Scenes like that I'd be fine with, but it just so happens that nine video game sex scenes out of ten are just awkwardly animated fanservice which does exactly none of those things. A narrative moment like the ones you're talking about takes the right circumstances, atmosphere building, character chemistry, mature writing and believable and thoughtful animation. If the mood of the scene is that this is just another character ready to throw themselves at you out of love or loneliness and the scene itself is either an eyesore with grunting noises or an animated porn movie, I don't see how that in any way enriches the story. Again, I don't have a problem with sex scenes specifically because of nudity, I have a problem with them because as a rule they suck, and that's a waste of development time and resources.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Psh, the moment I met Imoen I thought about romancing her.

[In Exile]

Scenes like that I'd be fine with, but it just so happens that nine video game sex scenes out of ten are just awkwardly animated fanservice which does exactly none of those things. A narrative moment like the ones you're talking about takes the right circumstances, atmosphere building, character chemistry, mature writing and believable and thoughtful animation. If the mood of the scene is that this is just another character ready to throw themselves at you out of love or loneliness and the scene itself is either an eyesore with grunting noises or an animated porn movie, I don't see how that in any way enriches the story. Again, I don't have a problem with sex scenes specifically because of nudity, I have a problem with them because as a rule they suck, and that's a waste of development time and resources.

That's a different argument. My position is simply that it's no argument against the use of nudity (or even sex) in a narrative to say either that 1) there are stories that are done well without them or 2) that there are stories told badly with them. The real answer is more nuanced, and there is a place for both nudity and sex in high quality storytelling. 

 

I don't think anyone - or rather, probably fewer people, and certainly very few people publicly - will argue in favour of badly done awkward sex scenes. 

[Seraphim24]

Hey ya!

 

Spoiler

 

 

[ThomasBlaine]

That's a different argument. My position is simply that it's no argument against the use of nudity (or even sex) in a narrative to say either that 1) there are stories that are done well without them or 2) that there are stories told badly with them. The real answer is more nuanced, and there is a place for both nudity and sex in high quality storytelling. 

 

I don't think anyone - or rather, probably fewer people, and certainly very few people publicly - will argue in favour of badly done awkward sex scenes. 

 

In that case we've been talking past each other. My intention is to say that sex scenes shouldn't be considered necessary for worthwhile game romances, mainly because they're hard to do well and easy to screw up, and because they aren't necessary, or even logical at times.

[In Exile]

In that case we've been talking past each other. My intention is to say that sex scenes shouldn't be considered necessary for worthwhile game romances, mainly because sex scenes are hard to well and easy to screw up, and because they aren't necessary, or even logical at times.

I don't think any scene can be said to be necessary. If someone genuinely takes that view, then they're wrong for the simple fact that scenes can't be necessary in that way. But at a general level, I think there's value in including both sex and nudity. Though for the former, I don't actually think there's an easy way to do it in an RPG. 

[ThomasBlaine]

I don't think any scene can be said to be necessary. If someone genuinely takes that view, then they're wrong for the simple fact that scenes can't be necessary in that way. But at a general level, I think there's value in including both sex and nudity. Though for the former, I don't actually think there's an easy way to do it in an RPG. 

 

Then I agree.