I do not believe a win or loss should be scripted. It should be determined by how you play. BioWare should just write each victory or loss into the main story.
This game is about choices, is it not?
So the PC should be able to succeed at everything he tries?
Exactly. For... Reasons. It's dense to imagine a world where the PC wins at everything. If you want that, go play COD, or some other god awful COD clone out there.
An example of forced failure that I actually enjoyed is the betrayal at Highever in DA:Origins. The castle was overrun and Bryce was already bleeding out, and the only thing left to do was flee.
Agree. Also think start of ME3 is a forced failure. Earth/Mars falls and you have to flee and that isn't an issue.
Equally Kai Leng/Thane fight could have been ok if they'd put a real obstacle into why Shep couldn't get to them(Left Shep locked in the room above looking on etc). Instead its just silly 3 fully armed killers sit idly by and watch a melee fight between a ninja with a sword and a severely ill drell without a sword.
Sure there will be, but not done as badly as Kai lame. Please can you tell me why shepard and his two squad mates stood and did nothing while Thane fought Kai lame? Please can anyone explain that?
It's even better as a biotic Shepard!
Hm. In Kotor's case, the game makes it seem like the player is the one who's lucky to get away from Malak instead of the other way around.
But that's exactly my point. You can beat Malak in that fight; beat him easily if you're competent. Then he wins because reasons and the game tells you that you need to run away from him.
But I never felt like I was winning from Malak in that fight. I just got his health down to a certain threshold which was easy, sure, but I never felt like I did any significant damage to him.
During Kai Leng's fight I felt I was actually doing damage to him because he has to recharge his shields constantly while blinding Shep with that gunship. It's the fact that Kai Leng needs to use cheap tricks to keep himself alive during the fight which makes him seem like an inferior foe, while Malak apparently just isn't hurt enough during the fight. That's far easier for me to accept.
. Kicks everyone down a notch. And happy endings / success all the time is overated. This is why my headcanon ending is that Shep and everyone dies and the Reapers win. Then, Liara's message gives the next cycle a head start and they successfully defeat the Reapers. There's a certain degree of symmetry with that, in that she is a xenoarcheaologist and her message, discovered by future races, is what saves everyone.
Although I liked a lot more than one thing about ME3 (it's my favorite game of the series...warts & all), I agree with the OP. The protagonist shouldn't be able to curb-stomp every challenge thrown his or her way. While that might satisfy the people who self-insert and want to feel like gods, it makes for a lousy story. Bioware was on the right track in not allowing Shepard to save Thane and in handing Shepard a defeat at Thessia, although both could probably have been handled a bit better. Bioware also was on the right track in aiming for a bittersweet finale to ME3. It was just poorly executed.
But I never felt like I was winning from Malak in that fight. I just got his health down to a certain threshold which was easy, sure, but I never felt like I did any significant damage to him.
During Kai Leng's fight I felt I was actually doing damage to him because he has to recharge his shields constantly while blinding Shep with that gunship. It's the fact that Kai Leng needs to use cheap tricks to keep himself alive during the fight which makes him seem like an inferior foe, while Malak apparently just isn't hurt enough during the fight. That's far easier for me to accept.
I think the more annoying thing is that the gunship is clearly in the line of fire and you should be able to shoot it down, just like the other gunships Shepard's destroyed in the past.
Defeats have to be believable. That's the secret in writing them. I played a game one time where I had cornered the bad guy and shot him point blank with a shotgun one barrel to the chest and the other to the face, yet he ran away. The guy was unarmored, too. I don't remember the name of the game, but it completely broke my immersion in the game, and I put the game away. It wasn't that I had to win the fight, it was that I did win the fight but lost anyway because of plot armor. If you're writing a scene like that, don't give the player a shotgun, and make sure you have a cutscene written before the player closes within a certain distance.
I think the more annoying thing is that the gunship is clearly in the line of fire and you should be able to shoot it down, just like the other gunships Shepard's destroyed in the past.
The fact that the ponytail needed the gunship to provide cover fire for him while he cried about needing to recharge made him more pathetic than he already was. The fight added nothing to the game. Just have the wannabe assassin order the gunship to fire at the supports as soon as Shepard and TIM ended their conversation
Interesting. I couldn't get past the fact that Malak was taking tons of damage while my PC wasn't. You felt that the damage Malak was taking.... wasn't real?But I never felt like I was winning from Malak in that fight. I just got his health down to a certain threshold which was easy, sure, but I never felt like I did any significant damage to him.
During Kai Leng's fight I felt I was actually doing damage to him because he has to recharge his shields constantly while blinding Shep with that gunship. It's the fact that Kai Leng needs to use cheap tricks to keep himself alive during the fight which makes him seem like an inferior foe, while Malak apparently just isn't hurt enough during the fight. That's far easier for me to accept.
The fact that the ponytail needed the gunship to provide cover fire for him while he cried about needing to recharge made him more pathetic than he already was. The fight added nothing to the game. Just have the wannabe assassin order the gunship to fire at the supports as soon as Shepard and TIM ended their conversation
That battle at the end of Thessia was one of the low points of the mission for me, it annoyed me seeing Shepard so easily beaten again by Kai Leng. You'd figured he would be more prepared and ready after the Citadel encounter. Also I agree with the gunship, we should've at least had the option to take it down.
That battle at the end of Thessia was one of the low points of the mission for me, it annoyed me seeing Shepard so easily beaten again by Kai Leng. You'd figured he would be more prepared and ready after the Citadel encounter. Also I agree with the gunship, we should've at least had the option to take it down.
Kai Lang really should have just remained a novel character, for all our sakes.
Great on paper, horrible execution.
Thessia scene could have been better if a Reaper suddenly burst through the ceiling.....everyone panic, Kai Leng using it as a distraction.
ME3 is the most disappointing end to a trilogy I've experienced. All you tools saying it does anything right are asking for a crappy ME4.
Thane being mortally wounded would have played out better if game had provided a reason why Shepard and his/her two squadmates couldn't intervene. An easy solution would have been to have Cerberus reinforcements on the way, with Thane taking on Kai Leng while Shepard and company dealt with the mooks. Thane then gets wounded while Shepard is still engaged in a firefight. Also, I'd have swapped out the lame ninja sword for an omni tool blade.
Thessia may have played out better if the player could get the upper hand on Kai Leng during the gameplay portion, appearing to force Kai Leng to retreat deeper into the temple. As Shepard pursues Kai Leng deeper into the temple, it's revealed to be a ruse, and Kai Leng detonates explosives that nearly kills Shep and causes the floor to collapse. Kai Leng uses his wits to win rather than rigged gameplay or curiously invulnerable gunships, and does it by employing something similar to a real world tactics. The feigned retreat, luring an enemy into into an ambush, is a tactic probably as old as warfare.
Kai Lang really should have just remained a novel character, for all our sakes.
Great on paper, horrible execution.
I read the novels and I do think I liked his character more in those than the games.
Thessia scene could have been better if a Reaper suddenly burst through the ceiling.....everyone panic, Kai Leng using it as a distraction.
That would be interesting. I agree that it would give Leng the distraction needed to download the VI
As a legit Karpyshynn hater, I never forgive him for CanonRevan and Kai Leng.... and he suck at characterization, that's why in the game, his ME1 characters (Anderson, Tali and Liara) flail and went flaccid very quick and in desperate need of massive rewrite for the next installment.
Would have love it if Kai Leng pick up some of the villain pointers from Imperial Agent's Hunter. Taunting you every few story arcs, crazy obsessive vibe, even way crazy conclusion.... so much satisfying.
But what they did to Thane is cheap but quite deserving... he doesn't want to die slow from his disease so the alternative is being killed for the sake of drama and what better way to put a stuffed into fridge trope.... sorry thanemancers
Forced failures in some circumstances are OK. The Human Noble failing to stop an entire army from killing his family makes sense. The Royal Army losing the battle at Ostagar despite the PC's efforts is alright. One of Hawke's siblings dying as they fight for their lives against an Ogre makes general sense.
But Thessia wasn't one of those. Kai Leng suddenly becoming invincible mid battle, a blinding flashlight making Shepard derp, and the companions standing there and being worse than useless in cutscenes is not how you induce a failure. It reeks of hamfisted writing and ''but thou must'' moments.
Forced failure against overwhelming odds is OK. But Kai Lame and his pet gunship aren't overwheling odds as far as Shepard is concerned, so it comes off as very forced. I don't want that.
That battle at the end of Thessia was one of the low points of the mission for me, it annoyed me seeing Shepard so easily beaten again by Kai Leng. You'd figured he would be more prepared and ready after the Citadel encounter. Also I agree with the gunship, we should've at least had the option to take it down.
You think Shep lost citadel? I felt like Thane was the only downside, you wipe the floor with Cerberus, kill udina and stop the coup. Outside of almost losing a fight to a terminally ill Drell there is no high point for Kai Leng.
Thane: That assassin should be ashamed of himself, a terminally ill Drell managed to stop him reaching his target.
TIM: I cant believe you let Shepard get the better of you Leng.
KL: It won't happen again
I agree, the coup is pretty much a win for Shepard. The victory might be bittersweet, but Shepard still foils Cerberus' plans there.
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