198 réponses à ce sujet

[General TSAR]

As in not being constantly accompanied by AI companion characters and undertaking most missions solo? That is not to say that there would not be characters like the companions in previous Bioware games, it is just that they would not be in your party for most of the game. To be honest Bioware has not really done anything interesting with the party mechanic for a while now, at best all it really adds is an extra hand (and sometime hindrance) in combat and the occasional line of banter, whats more since the games expect you to use party members in missions it makes it hard for your party members to have any real agency in the plot since they always have to be on hand to assist you in whatever mission you are undertaking.

 

By getting rid of the whole party mechanic it would allow Bioware more freedom to do more interesting things with the gameplay that would currently be impossible or very awkward to implement with the party system as it is, it would also free up characters that would have usually been relegated to companion status to have more agency and allow them to do more interesting things in the plot.

 

And don't worry I am sure they could still work in your stupid ****** romance options as well.

The party system works because the NPCs assist you, talk with each other, give their insight to the player character, and break up boredom.

 

Why on Earth would you get rid of it? Maybe offer an optional solo deployment like Dragon Age sure, but getting rid of it sounds like an absolutely stupid design decision. 

[Dark Eff3ct]

I would be interested in a game where you select characters to do certain missions in the area while you do a mission by yourself. Depending on who you pick changes what happens. Sort of like the suicide mission in ME2 but throughout the game and no team to back you up. You could run into the characters who you sent out while you are trying to complete your mission so you still have some interaction with them through the mission, they can also talk with you via comms.

You still talk to the squad back at base, just instead of having all these great warriors following you, you are each charged with completing part of the mission. Giving the game creators a chance to switch up gameplay while still creating loveable characters for all.

I hope to god that made sense.

[Dalakaar]

As in not being constantly accompanied by AI companion characters and undertaking most missions solo?

My infiltrator often told his companions to "Sit and Stay" and went off by himself cloaked.

 

The option to do that without having to constantly tell them to stop following me like a bunch of lost puppies? I'd take it. Would make the infiltrator class a lot more immersive if I'm sneaking around.

 

I have already given my reasons as to why I would personally like to see this however the main opposition to the idea seems to be on the basis that you can't have a strong storytelling experience or characters without party based gameplay, the question I am now asking is why can't you?

Good question. Bet you the answer isn't.

[RatThing]

I thought it was by far the most boring of the story DLCs, and would have much better had it been designed similar to LotSB, except with the focus on the Virmire Survivor.

 

Well, at least Arrival had a story, contrary to about 60% of the main game. Also let's not forget that the companions were completely silent in the Overlord DLC. I don't remember them doing anything there except moving a corpse across the room for no particular reason.

 

Seriously, a companion only added to the story when that companion was mandatory for the mission. Aside of that, a few comments is all you get. So why not give you the option to go alone from time to time if it adds some gameplay variations like the ability to play stealth? I'd certainly be open for it.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I like having options, unlimited options of what I want to go alone or with companions (Please don't set up for people to HAVE companions when it comes to fighting. Like on Dragon Age 2 when I want to fight by myself, but ended up getting my ass kicked in the process.) BioWare should give people choices of whether they want to play a party banter or being a lone wolf, and don't set it up for players to have to have companions all the time.

[AlanC9]

I like having options, unlimited options of what I want to go alone or with companions (Please don't set up for people to HAVE companions when it comes to fighting. Like on Dragon Age 2 when I want to fight by myself, but ended up getting my ass kicked in the process.) BioWare should give people choices of whether they want to play a party banter or being a lone wolf, and don't set it up for players to have to have companions all the time.

How can that be balanced, though? If a game is playable solo, it's going to be too easy with a party. This is a real problem with DAI already.

[Ahglock]

I actually like this idea Queen S.

When I actually think about what companions add I'm unimpressed. Some banter in the background the rare comment on a decision I'm going to make woo hoo. All of that could be handled by a comms system where I pick 2 tactical advisors to watch my progress that I stream t them.

On the gameplay side they add advantages when you use their powers wisely. But when you design a game as a solo game you are given a lot more freedom in character capabilities and ways to interact and deal with objectives.

[sjsharp2011]

How can that be balanced, though? If a game is playable solo, it's going to be too easy with a party. This is a real problem with DAI already.

 

 

Yeah the only way they can do it is to approach it the asme way as Draqgon Age otherwise you'll end up with a screwed up game I think.

[Hiemoth]

To be honest, for me the central question here is somewhat odd. Sure, there are things that can be done without a party mechanics just as there are things to be can done with the party mechanics, it is ultimately a question of value and of focus. Unless we first agree what is actually this mythical thing that could be done without a party, the whole discussion is ultimately meaningless. Just saying they could do more is useless.

 

Also, Deus Ex is a horrible comparison as it has several differences in game mechanics than the lack of a party. It is also designed from a FPS point-of-view, so should ME also shift to that as it allows for different things. It is a stealth game as well, which requires huge changes in how the encounters, levels and gameplay is designed, which is probably also a reason I've seen only a few people praise the combat mechanics of DE. While it allows different biotic builds, it isn't designed to have as a huge a variability in character abilities than the ME games, but maybe if that variability is also stripped, they could also focus more on speciifc classes and give them more depth.

[Eleonora]

I have to admit there's only one situation in the whole trilogy where I'm thankful to have squad mates (in battle, not talking about the importance of dialogue and such), and that's during the human reaper battle (ME2) on insanity. The squad actually kills the collectors that keep spawning there, allowing me to concentrate on the reaper.

 

I can't think of another situation where my squad mates actually made a difference in battle. Or maybe I just never pay attention to what they're doing.

[Linkenski]

I would like a Mass Effect dual adventure where you bring one squadmate along at max. It would make it likely to become a co-op game too, then.

[Madeline McQueen]

Wow, tell me how you really feel, is it because I called your romance options stupid?

Lol and why not? I usually do tell people what I think, what's the point in beating around the bush? 

 

Lol no, something this belittling wouldn't effect me, your comments don't really bother me because straight away as I said they are very childish and immature. Also by the way you are talking you do sound like a petulant child and children a lot of the time don't know how to act in a mature manor, hence why children don't bother me that much. I wasn't having ago, I was just telling you straight, do with that what you will.    

[MichaelN7]

I find the "squad" or "team" in BioWare games to be a hallmark.

But I also liked Arrival from Mass Effect 2, which was almost entirely solo (aside from Dr. Amanda Kenson, but she's very temporary)

It forced you to change mind-sets, since now you only have your powers and no squad.

For me, it gave my Vanguard a workout, what with all the shields everywhere.

 

In both Mass Effect and Dragon Age, I find it very satisfying to take myself and my ragtag bunch of misfits, armed with only basic powers and abilities, and turn us into a force to be reckoned with.  It's very rewarding to see the different strategies and combos that can be pulled off.

However, some of the most intense battles have been ones where I'm the only one left standing.

Every power must be used carefully.

Every cooldown is agony

For if I fall, the cause dies with me, so...

I WILL NOT FALTER!

*cue glorious music*...

 

Anyway, the solo experience is something that if done well is tremendously fun, but if it's "just for lolz" then it's like making a delicious sandwich and then switching to toast at the last minute (nothing against toast); all the character-building brought down to "NOPE" is underwhelming and a little insulting.

 

I think it could be implemented well, maybe have your squad split up on a mission, like if you're on a desert planet and there's a canyon that forks.

One companion takes the left fork, the other the right, and you go down the middle.

It would be a convenient excuse to play as your companions, pull a "meanwhile", go back to Ryder, and then have the squad meet up.

Or a mission where you get separated from your team because your shuttle "pulled a Vega" (see: crashed), and now you're on your own in unfamiliar territory that isn't necessarily friendly, knowing that you must find your team because they're your friends and you never leave a man behind (Paragon) or because they have valuable skills you don't want to have to replace (Renegade).  It adds content that almost writes itself, you can't lose.

 

So, basically, keep the team/squad-dynamic, but a smattering of pure solo would be a ready source of "shaking things up" to keep it exciting, especially if it can be tied to the story.

 

Worst case scenario, go with Inquisition.  Bring a full team or just yourself, just make sure it's who/what you want, since you may not be able to change it later.

 

I should go.

[Madeline McQueen]

Which they already do in DA anyway I believe. I prefer to work with a team but if they put in an option whereby the player can go alone if they want to i suppose it's not too bad but it should be as an extra because one of the reasons why I love Biowares games are their characters. Without the characters woith me cauing havoc for the bad guys I don't think I'd enjoy the game half as much.

Exactly! 100% agree with you, that's exactly how I feel. And yes they do let you do it in DA which suits everyone. I see no problem in doing that in ME but if we are forced to play most of it solo then they will probably have a lot of unhappy customers. They do the whole team bit and banter so well, why change what people love? Makes no sense.   

[fraggle]

Personally I'd hate to go on solo missions. There's a reason I dislike Arrival and Omega DLC. I can't take my squad mates with me and that sucks big time for me.

You learn a lot about characters when you take them on missions and listen to what they have to say, how they react in certain situations and through the banter with other characters.

 

I wouldn't mind if there's on option to go on your own though, then everybody could have what they want. Guess that's not gonna happen though.

[Jedi Comedian]

The closest thing we have got was ME: Infiltrator

[Queen Skadi]

To be honest, for me the central question here is somewhat odd. Sure, there are things that can be done without a party mechanics just as there are things to be can done with the party mechanics, it is ultimately a question of value and of focus. Unless we first agree what is actually this mythical thing that could be done without a party, the whole discussion is ultimately meaningless. Just saying they could do more is useless.

 

Also, Deus Ex is a horrible comparison as it has several differences in game mechanics than the lack of a party. It is also designed from a FPS point-of-view, so should ME also shift to that as it allows for different things. It is a stealth game as well, which requires huge changes in how the encounters, levels and gameplay is designed, which is probably also a reason I've seen only a few people praise the combat mechanics of DE. While it allows different biotic builds, it isn't designed to have as a huge a variability in character abilities than the ME games, but maybe if that variability is also stripped, they could also focus more on speciifc classes and give them more depth.

 

There is a lot they could do with the solo experience if did not have to worry as much about companion AI and pathfinding, I deliberately left the benefits vague because I wanted to leave it open to all the possibilities and expected the BSN to use their imagination, perhaps I expected too much of the BSN?

 

And yes Deus Ex does have many differences in mechanics and those differences are largely made possible by the fact that the game does not need to compensate as much for party AI and pathfinding, could you imagine trying to play Deus Ex with a party shadowing your every footstep? Without having to compensate for and rely on companions it would open up more opportunities for the developers to do more interesting things with the gameplay and provide other options for tackling obstacles other than straight combat, yes it would require huge changes in how the encounters, levels and gameplay is designed but then Bioware games are in desperate need of a shake up in this department, have you seen many people willing to praise the gameplay in Bioware games?

[Queen Skadi]

Lol and why not? I usually do tell people what I think, what's the point in beating around the bush? 

 

Lol no, something this belittling wouldn't effect me, your comments don't really bother me because straight away as I said they are very childish and immature. Also by the way you are talking you do sound like a petulant child and children a lot of the time don't know how to act in a mature manor, hence why children don't bother me that much. I wasn't having ago, I was just telling you straight, do with that what you will.    

 

Maturity is overrated, this is only something you can learn when you are truly mature.

 

Alternatively the surest sign of immaturity is the unending desire for maturity.

 

Perhaps you will understand when you are older.

[Lady Artifice]

Even setting aside the fact that this kind of radical adjustment in game design would involve neglecting Bioware's most notable narrative strength, there's also a practical argument to be made against it.

 

When you're dealing with an array of different class builds, squad based combat is the best way for the player to be able to enjoy all of those classes in a single playthrough. You could remove the class system and reduce the number of abillity options, but I'd need someone to explain to me how that would be at all an improvement.

 

Since I work and take classes, the time I can give to replaying a game and trying different things is limited. I'd prefer more opportunities to enjoy a variety of combat styles in the first playthrough, not less.

[Seraphim24]

Bioware's strength is not it's "narrative" it's the whole thing, not one thing over the other, gameplay, characters, whatever, it all goes together.

 

As for the OP, there really isn't any reason it couldn't work but also equally not really any reason to see it as an automatic improvement. I never really trust the AI companions to be there in a time of need anyway, kind of just hope they mostly help the situation. If they were simply gone I might not even notice too much.

 

I guess it depends on what you define as "solo adventure" also since arguably the limited and singular nature of your companion in NWN might qualify it as a solo adventure.

[capn233]

For an isolated mission or two it would be fine.

[Killroy]

No one has laid out a case for what Mass Effect would gain from getting rid of companions. It would certainly be different, but what would be improved?

Companions are an integral part of Mass Effect so the series would have to be changed from the ground up to make this change. The narrative would have to be different for a solo asskicker to make sense. You would throwing away a lot of story and character possibilities for it. Organizations/militaries wouldn't make sense, so what would be left? Mercenary? Bounty Hunter? What are the stakes? What is the narrative?

If all you want is different then why are you playing an established series that doesn't give you what you want?

[Queen Skadi]

No one has laid out a case for what Mass Effect would gain from getting rid of companions.

 

You mean apart from all the gameplay opportunities the devs could explore that would be impossible or inconvenient in a game that needs to allow for companions? The truth is nobody has made a solid case for what we would lose by getting rid of companions, sure the major arguments are that we would somehow lose story and that it is impossible to create deep character interactions without companion characters, however nobody has been able to explain why? Surely the Witcher 3 is proof enough that the claim is rubbish. Seriously what do companions do that can only be done as permanent tag alongs apart from a bit of banter? Most of the deeper interactions with your companions happens back on the ship or in base anyway, whats more since companions always need to be on hand to assist you in missions it prevents them from playing more interesting roles in the story, freeing them from being permanent tag alongs will give them more opportunities for greater agency within the story which could potentially make for a richer story rather than subtracting from it.

[Killroy]

You mean apart from all the gameplay opportunities the devs could explore that would be impossible or inconvenient in a game that needs to allow for companions?

That's a change, not an addition or improvement.

The truth is nobody has made a solid case for what we would lose by getting rid of companions,

...you mean aside from the companions?

sure the major arguments are that we would somehow lose story and that it is impossible to create deep character interactions without companion characters

Yes, it is a fact that a character has to interact with other characters for there to exist character interaction.

however nobody has been able to explain why?

I'm 90% sure you're just trolling.

Surely the Witcher 3 is proof enough that the claim is rubbish. Seriously what do companions do that can only be done as permanent tag alongs apart from a bit of banter?

Now 100%. The Witcher is a lone wolf. It's pretty much his thing. He's not part of an organization of any kind. Who would the PC be in this Mass Effect game you want? A guy who pilots and maintain an entire ship by himself, in addition to going on extended combat missions for no reason by himself? Even pirates have brothers in arms and crews to assist them.

Most of the deeper interactions with your companions happens back on the ship or in base anyway, whats more since companions always need to be on hand to assist you in missions it prevents them from playing more interesting roles in the story, freeing them from being permanent tag alongs will give them more opportunities for greater agency within the story which could potentially make for a richer story rather than subtracting from it.

Why would we have a full complement on the ship but not a single companion on the battlefield? It's entirely moronic and again, adds nothing. It would just be change for the sake of change.

[FraQ]

Open to it? Yes.

 

Excited about it? No.

 

 

Alpha Protocol was a solo adventure with a lot of Bioware's typical mechanics and I got a good amount of enjoyment out of it. I can envision a really great game being made like that but until somebody actually makes that game, I'll remain skeptical on the idea.