198 réponses à ce sujet

[Fullmetall21]

No, I was merely pointing out that despite the fact that both games made the switch to open world gameplay one was well received while the other wasn't suggesting that just maybe Bioware trying something slightly (and I mean as slight as slight gets) different is not the reason the latest Dragon Age games have not been as well received. I am getting a little sick of people using Inquisition and Dragon Age 2 as an excuse as to why Bioware should not do anything different as if putting less effort into your games is somehow this edgy and experimental new game design philosophy.

 

Perhaps you should read the entire thread and then re-read it again to ensure that you have a somewhat informed idea of the subject being discussed before posting knee jerk reactions.

 

People are always bringing up DAI and DA2 because other people continue to bring up the Witcher in every possible scenario. Witcher was designed from the start as a solo game, the same way Halo was designed as a solo game. I wonder, how would feel if CDPR decided to remove a feature that was part of the Witcher franchise since the beginning for no obvious reason other than change. Would you feel the same way about the Witcher? Would it even be Witcher to you? If something that people actually like works, why would you take a huge risk by changing it? Because the new feature might work better? 

 

Also let's say that Bioware actually get's rid of the companion system. What would happen then? people would just say that Bioware is copying Halo or the Witcher, just like they did when Bioware decided to branch out into open world model. People were saying DAI was a poor copy of Bethesda's Skyrim and with good cause. Companion interactions are vital to any Bioware game and it's actually something Bioware is really really great at. Party banter while in the field might not mean much to you, but it means a great deal to a lot of other people.

 

I still fail to understand why having companions around is bothering you. As I understand it, your argument is that Bioware should use the resources spared from that removal into various gameplay improvements. Except gameplay was never a priority for Bioware and most of their fans like the fact that they focus more on the story. Part of that story is companion interactions. Take the original Mass Effect as an example of that, it has the crappiest gameplay mechanics however it is still considered the greatest game in the trilogy and quite possibly one of the best RPGs of all time.

 

So to answer your original question since you apparently think that I didn't read your post, no I would definitely NOT sacrifice companions for gameplay purposes. There are tons of other solo games out there that you might enjoy if that's your thing, you mentioned quite a few yourself, but I would like to keep the few party based games that are actually decent as they are. And let me tell you, the party banter in DAI was some of the most amusing dialogue I ever heard in any video game ever.

Modifié par Fullmetall21, 14 janvier 2016 - 03:35 .

[Queen Skadi]

People are always bringing up DAI and DA2 because other people continue to bring up the Witcher in every possible scenario. Witcher was designed from the start as a solo game, the same way Halo was designed as a solo game. I wonder, how would feel if CDPR decided to remove a feature that was part of the Witcher franchise since the beginning for no obvious reason other than change. Would you feel the same way about the Witcher? Would it even be Witcher to you? If something that people actually like works, why would you take a huge risk by changing it? Because the new feature might work better?

 

Depends what they are removing and what the proposed benefits are, I am sure if you had been paying attention you would know that the Witcher series from the first game to the third has gone through many changes while still maintaining a consistent tone and staying true to the universe.

 

Also let's say that Bioware actually get's rid of the companion system. What would happen then? people would just say that Bioware is copying Halo or the Witcher, just like they did when Bioware decided to branch out into open world model. People were saying DAI was a poor copy of Bethesda's Skyrim and with good cause. Companion interactions are vital to any Bioware game and it's actually something Bioware is really really great at. Party banter while in the field might not mean much to you, but it means a great deal to a lot of other people.

 

I still fail to understand why having companions around is bothering you. As I understand it, your argument is that Bioware should use the resources spared from that removal into various gameplay improvements. Except gameplay was never a priority for Bioware and most of their fans like the fact that they focus more on the story. Part of that story is companion interactions. Take the original Mass Effect as an example of that, it has the crappiest gameplay mechanics however it is still considered the greatest game in the trilogy and quite possibly one of the best RPGs of all time.

 

It is not so much that they bother me it is more that I see greater potential in a game that does not have to limit it's gameplay options in order to compensate for AI controlled companions. Now by your own admission with gameplay not being one of Bioware's greatest strengths obviously the companions aren't doing much to help in this regard so it would seem the biggest thing that the companions provide is story content, however what story content do they provide that they could not as regular NPCs? Banter? You don't need a party for that, ever hear of refund guy, the salarian bachelor party or the friendzoned turian? How about the bear pits in Thief? Plenty of random conversations you can eavesdrop on in the world around you without having them constantly happen in your party.

 

As for them being accused of copying Halo for having a solo protagonist why would they? Did Halo invent the solo protagonist? You do realize that Halo 5 features a squad now don't you? Unless they do a carbon copy of the Halo formula I don't see why they would be accused of copying Halo, what a silly claim. There is plenty they could do with a solo protagonist without being a Halo clone and there are plenty of games that make far better use of the solo protagonist than the Halo series.

 

In regards to Mass Effect 1 being considered the best in the series, no, not by a long shot, Mass Effect 2 was a major improvement in almost every regard.

[TheBunz]

tl;dr

Are you guys writing a novel?

[rapscallioness]

No.

[blahblahblah]

Change is always good, staying the same and not to change is bad.

Lol, making RE4 from survival horror into a 3rd person shooter was never been a good change just like ME2 removing many RPG to improve the shooting and turning it into a linear corridor shooter.

[Fullmetall21]

 

Plenty of random conversations you can eavesdrop on in the world around you without having them constantly happen in your party.

 

 

Eavesdropping and party banter are two completely different things. There are conversations that only happen in party banter and they would make no sense out of context. I would not be willing to sacrifice story content for any gameplay changes in a story driven RPG. I don't play Bioware games for their gameplay, I play them for their story and I assume the larger part of the community feels the same way. In other words, as long as the story is great, I couldn't care less about the gameplay nor would I ever make it a priority over more story content.

 

And because you listed the Wticher as a game with no companions that works, I didn't like that part of it at all. I must have heard more lines of Gerald talking to himself than him actually having conversations with his NPC "companions". 

[saladinbob]

If the game was made open world like (modern) Fallout or TES games then sure. But Bioware traditionally don't make those sorts of games so whilst I agree that the party mechanic has been stale for some time, I'd rather see Bioware freshen it up with new gameplay concepts rather than ditch it altogether. 

[sjsharp2011]

I don't mind there being solo plsy for those that want it but if they do it should be done in a way similar to Dragon Age as I think Bioware have at leasrt got that part of it right. But then the only time I go solo even on DA ais when I'm doing something simple like doing some shopping in Val Royeaux or something.

[creeptool]

[Queen Skadi]

Eavesdropping and party banter are two completely different things. There are conversations that only happen in party banter and they would make no sense out of context.

 

Give me an example.

 

I would not be willing to sacrifice story content for any gameplay changes in a story driven RPG.

 

That is part of the problem, too many people treating gameplay and story as 2 entirely separate things when they should be working together to create an experience that is greater than the sum of their parts, story can give reason for gameplay mechanics and gameplay mechanics can reinforce story elements, sure you can create a game that focuses on one and ignores the other but in the end the end result will be a weaker game that does not live up to it's potential.

 

You make it sound like Bioware should just take a page from Telltale and abandon gameplay altogether.

[Fullmetall21]

Give me an example.

 

 

 

That is part of the problem, too many people treating gameplay and story as 2 entirely separate things when they should be working together to create an experience that is greater than the sum of their parts, story can give reason for gameplay mechanics and gameplay mechanics can reinforce story elements, sure you can create a game that focuses on one and ignores the other but in the end the end result will be a weaker game that does not live up to it's potential.

 

You make it sound like Bioware should just take a page from Telltale and abandon gameplay altogether.

 

Tali commending on the spikes called Dragon's Teeth on the derelict reaper mission is one example. Fact is if some specific companions aren't there you don't get that particular conversation and it would make no sense out of context. There is actually a whole topic here on BSN dedicated to companion's unique dialogue when on missions. Things you literally can't hear unless you bring them with you. I assumed you were talking about Mass Effect banter because Dragon Age is filled with meaningful or plain amusing banter. 

 

Bioware is known for their stories, their characters and the interactions between those characters. I'm not suggesting them taking a page off Telltale or CDPR or "insert popular RPG company here", if I wanted that I would simply play games from said companies. What I'm suggesting is that Bioware should stay the same, at the very least in their philosophy and continue to create the great games they are known and loved for. If anything the one suggesting Bioware take a page from anyone is you.

 

EDIT Spelling. 

Modifié par Fullmetall21, 15 janvier 2016 - 12:35 .

[prosthetic soul]

Having a Bioware game without party members would be completely antithetical to Bioware's motto on narrative game design. That's literally their biggest strength

 

Spoiler

If not their only remaining one period >_>

 

A Bioware game without party members is like a car without an engine.  Then all you're left with is....a horse-drawn carriage.

[creeptool]

[UniformGreyColor]

OMG, just no.. no, no, no. Companions bring so much to the table! I would actually hate to see Bioware drop that. For me it would be a question of resources. Hypothetically, yes, bioware could branch out and make a new series that is dedicated to solo adventures, but it would come down to resources to make a game where there are no companions and deviate from their almost signature model they have. Now, before I get ahead of myself, TW3 is a great game and a huge portion of the game is played solo, but even in that game there are times when you are playing with another character. To make a long story short, in general Bioware has done a great job with their party based games and I would hate to see then give that up all the way. There is a reason why other games like F4 are starting to implement companions in their games and that is because it is just more fun to have them in the game.

[Ascari]

Removing companions would only make it boring and also cliche.

 

Also Deus Ex is a bad comparision because it's not character based.

[ZipZap2000]

I don't mind there being solo plsy for those that want it.

Anyone else see what I saw.

[Madeline McQueen]

Maturity is overrated, this is only something you can learn when you are truly mature.

 

Alternatively the surest sign of immaturity is the unending desire for maturity.

 

Perhaps you will understand when you are older.

Yes it's okay to let your hair down of course we all need to let loose from time to time but there are times where we must be mature whether you like it or not. Okay a social site like this doesn't really matter to an extent, there are trolls everywhere on the net but it would be nice to not have to see childish mannerisms for once. And no, that is not correct, maybe you'll learn that one day when you hit adulthood. That just shows you have a lot of growing up to do.  

 

Either way we have digressed, you asked for peoples opinions and we are giving it, but just one little bit of advise - if you don't want people to get annoyed with your posts in future then perhaps not starting off as childish and rude from the start might be a good idea? There is no need for it to be honest and if someone asks you why you are behaving like that, going for them may not be the best way to go (unless you really are just looking for attention). Just because there are many, many trolls out there why do you want to act like one of them, can't you just be a better person? I think we need less to be honest but hey, maybe that's just me.

 

Anyway, I'm off and to cut to the chase and get back on topic, it looks like a lot of people wouldn't like your idea at all or wouldn't mind going half way - if it was like DA and the player was allowed to choose to go on missions solo or with a party. That one looks like it would please most. Least now you have your answer.   

[creeptool]

OMG, just no.. no, no, no. Companions bring so much to the table! I would actually hate to see Bioware drop that. For me it would be a question of resources. Hypothetically, yes, bioware could branch out and make a new series that is dedicated to solo adventures, but it would come down to resources to make a game where there are no companions and deviate from their almost signature model they have. Now, before I get ahead of myself, TW3 is a great game and a huge portion of the game is played solo, but even in that game there are times when you are playing with another character. To make a long story short, in general Bioware has done a great job with their party based games and I would hate to see then give that up all the way. There is a reason why other games like F4 are starting to implement companions in their games and that is because it is just more fun to have them in the game.

i agree...  the biggest thing that made bioware great is the party members and the dialogue options...at best bioware would be below average game developer if they got read of the party members and dialogue options.

[prosthetic soul]

I don't mind there being solo plsy for those that want it but if they do it should be done in a way similar to Dragon Age as I think Bioware have at leasrt got that part of it right. But then the only time I go solo even on DA ais when I'm doing something simple like doing some shopping in Val Royeaux or something.

Oh you are just incorrigible.  A nice stab at multiplayer proponents! 10/10

[UniformGreyColor]

i agree...  the biggest thing that made bioware great is the party members and the dialogue options...at best bioware would be below average game developer if the got read of the party members and dialogue options.

 

While I agree, I do think Bioware is capable of making a good purely single player game, but again, resouces. I would completely want them to stick to party based games. Let the other developers stick with single player, every dev team does what it does best and bioware is no exception.

 

Actually this whole discussion has me actually wondering if they will go with single player soon. Only time will tell.

[sjsharp2011]

Oh you are just incorrigible.  A nice stab at multiplayer proponents! 10/10

 

 

What are you talking about I was refering to the fact that in the DA series you can run solo without companions  if you wish too I wouldn't encourage it as it does make the game hard to play that way but if people wish to the options are there. I prefer to run as part of a team and have people such as Garrus, Tali, Leliana and Varric to name a few accompany me when I do my missions. i'm just asying that as long as it's optional as to whether we run with or without them like it is in DA then I wouldn't complain about it.

[Queen Skadi]

Tali commending on the spikes called Dragon's Teeth on the derelict reaper mission is one example. Fact is if some specific companions aren't there you don't get that particular conversation and it would make no sense out of context. There is actually a whole topic here on BSN dedicated to companion's unique dialogue when on missions. Things you literally can't hear unless you bring them with you. I assumed you were talking about Mass Effect banter because Dragon Age is filled with meaningful or plain amusing banter. 

 

Bioware is known for their stories, their characters and the interactions between those characters. I'm not suggesting them taking a page off Telltale or CDPR or "insert popular RPG company here", if I wanted that I would simply play games from said companies. What I'm suggesting is that Bioware should stay the same, at the very least in their philosophy and continue to create the great games they are known and loved for. If anything the one suggesting Bioware take a page from anyone is you.

 

EDIT Spelling. 

 

I don't remember that particular piece of Banter (probably because it was so insignificant it is not something worth remembering) and have no idea what it is supposed to infer but is there seriously no other way that information could be conveyed and is that particular piece of banter that vital to the experience? Could it not be conveyed through codex entries, audio logs, an advisor over headset or by any other means other than a tag along in your party? Also did you really need that piece of banter to complete the game, what did Tali commenting of the spikes called Dragon's Teeth really add that no other piece of Banter from any other character in the game could have?

 

Bioware is known for their stories, their characters and the interactions between those characters. I'm not suggesting them taking a page off Telltale or CDPR or "insert popular RPG company here", if I wanted that I would simply play games from said companies. What I'm suggesting is that Bioware should stay the same, at the very least in their philosophy and continue to create the great games they are known and loved for. If anything the one suggesting Bioware take a page from anyone is you.

 

Is there no room for growth and change? Should Mass Effect just become an annual series like Call of Duty or Madden and just release the same game every year with a few slight tweeks? I am not saying Bioware should just copy other games either but that does not mean there are not things that they could learn from them, game design does not happen in a vacuum and it is always good to have a look at what other games do well and learn from them while incorporating your own improvements.

 

Everything we do is built on the shoulders of giants and without the lessons learnt from games in the past we would not have the games we have today, incorporate the lessons learnt from your predecessors while adding your own improvements and unique touches.

[Queen Skadi]

Yes it's okay to let your hair down of course we all need to let loose from time to time but there are times where we must be mature whether you like it or not. Okay a social site like this doesn't really matter to an extent, there are trolls everywhere on the net but it would be nice to not have to see childish mannerisms for once. And no, that is not correct, maybe you'll learn that one day when you hit adulthood. That just shows you have a lot of growing up to do.  

 

Either way we have digressed, you asked for peoples opinions and we are giving it, but just one little bit of advise - if you don't want people to get annoyed with your posts in future then perhaps not starting off as childish and rude from the start might be a good idea? There is no need for it to be honest and if someone asks you why you are behaving like that, going for them may not be the best way to go (unless you really are just looking for attention). Just because there are many, many trolls out there why do you want to act like one of them, can't you just be a better person? I think we need less to be honest but hey, maybe that's just me.

 

Anyway, I'm off and to cut to the chase and get back on topic, it looks like a lot of people wouldn't like your idea at all or wouldn't mind going half way - if it was like DA and the player was allowed to choose to go on missions solo or with a party. That one looks like it would please most. Least now you have your answer.   

 

If people get annoyed by my posts that is on them, I do not personally attack people and am merely posting suggestions about how things could be done differently, not sure what is so childish about that? If you are the one getting offended about such mild content then perhaps it is you who needs to look in the mirror and ask yourself why it offends you so much.

[sjsharp2011]

I don't remember that particular piece of Banter (probably because it was so insignificant it is not something worth remembering) and have no idea what it is supposed to infer but is there seriously no other way that information could be conveyed and is that particular piece of banter that vital to the experience? Could it not be conveyed through codex entries, audio logs, an advisor over headset or by any other means other than a tag along in your party? Also did you really need that piece of banter to complete the game, what did Tali commenting of the spikes called Dragon's Teeth really add that no other piece of Banter from any other character in the game could have?

 

 

 

Is there no room for growth and change? Should Mass Effect just become an annual series like Call of Duty or Madden and just release the same game every year with a few slight tweeks? I am not saying Bioware should just copy other games either but that does not mean there are not things that they could learn from them, game design does not happen in a vacuum and it is always good to have a look at what other games do well and learn from them while incorporating your own improvements.

 

Everything we do is built on the shoulders of giants and without the lessons learnt from games in the past we would not have the games we have today, incorporate the lessons learnt from your predecessors while adding your own improvements and unique touches.

Game companies should also recognise and keep doing the things they do well  otherwise they risk the whole system falling apart. Companion banter and having companions work alongside you are 2 things that seem to really work well in both the ME and DA series so to quote something Cassandra Pentaghast might say  "They would be fools to drop it."

[UniformGreyColor]

What are you talking about I was refering to the fact that in the DA series you can run solo without companions  if you wish too I wouldn't encourage it as it does make the game hard to play that way but if people wish to the options are there. I prefer to run as part of a team and have people such as Garrus, Tali, Leliana and Varric to name a few accompany me when I do my missions. i'm just asying that as long as it's optional as to whether we run with or without them like it is in DA then I wouldn't complain about it.

 

I actually wouldn't mind if Bioware made games so that it is insurmountably difficult to complete without companions. That would tell the story of Bioware making really good AI for companions, or at least being able to control each party member to a very detailed level. While I'm at it I wouldn't mind an option to make companions either controlled mostly by AI as one option or full control as another, and a third that gives a bit of both.