198 réponses à ce sujet

[UniformGreyColor]

Yeah but these things always can be improved the point Iwas trying to make is the fact that the options are there for those that want them. There's always going to be room for improvemenrt but that's always what we can hope for as games get bigger and better. I think the fact though that Bioware have dolne a pretty good job with the tech at their disposal is a step in the right directoin. As for ordering companions to not use certain abilties you can I believe switch the abilities to disabled I believe in the tactics screen. I think they will eventually get there though.

 

I think we are more or less on the same page. My only real point is that better AI (in other words choice mechanics for how my characters play) is better.

 

[Edit] I guess my only caveat is that we have the technology to implement what my prior suggestion is but it is not being implemented by bioware.

[This is the End My Friend]

...you're just writing gibberish. How does removing companions give more gameplay or narrative freedom? How does removing companions change how enemies are killed? What are you talking about?

 

Its much easier to balance a game for one character, you can do more things (ie. stealth or none lethal takedowns). You have more freedom in creating an enemy, maybe they aren't even bad at all. Maybe you are the bad guy (ie. UNATCO/NSF from Deus Ex). Party gameplay is fine but your choices really come down to slaughter your enemy or die. It would really suck if it Deus Ex my only option was to murder the NSF.

 

Plus, are people attached to followers or interesting characters? because you can have a bunch of interesting characters without them following the PC around everywhere. 

[Killroy]

Its much easier to balance a game for one character,

It's no easier to balance a game for a single character with a wide array of abilities than for a group of characters with a wide array of powers. And if your argument is that you want massive changes to the core gameplay so as to make less work for BioWare then you very clearly don't understand the situation.

you can do more things (ie. stealth or none lethal takedowns).

You can do those things with squadmates if you design game for such things. Why is 100% one thing or 100% the other? They can make a stealth game with a single character but they couldn't have stealth gameplay in a game with a small squad?

You have more freedom in creating an enemy, maybe they aren't even bad at all. Maybe you are the bad guy (ie. UNATCO/NSF from Deus Ex). Party gameplay is fine but your choices really come down to slaughter your enemy or die. It would really suck if it Deus Ex my only option was to murder the NSF.

This is pure gibberish. A party doesn't impact those things at all. There are numerous occasions in party-based BioWare games where you're given the option of killing someone or not killing them. And you being the villain is a narrative choice, not a gameplay choice.
 

Plus, are people attached to followers or interesting characters? because you can have a bunch of interesting characters without them following the PC around everywhere.

Why is relegating the interesting characters to home base or whatever somehow better than having companions? Why would have a group of people back there talking to you but not people with you on the battlefield to help you fight? What possible justification could there be for that?

[This is the End My Friend]

You misunderstand, examples are good when you comparing similar things, comparing DAI with TW3 is like comparing apples with oranges. Both are fruits but are fundamentally different, that being said ME has even less in common with TW3 than DAI, granted we are talking about ME Andromeda since it appears Bioware decided to take the Inquisition route here in terms of the main character's background and development (from what we can tell this early).  By definition, Gerald is meant to be solo because that's how the Witchers work in the universe, which is the fundamental difference I'm talking about. With that being said, bringing up the Wticher in a topic about whether or not should ME move to a solo gameplay model is wrong because of how the lore and the universe of each series work.

 

Also I missed your point, it is common knowledge that Bioware is very good at character writing but I still fail to understand how a transition to a solo game would theoretically improve that. 

 

I was comparing them in regards to how well they handled there characters in combination with the amount of resources used. If that's not applicable then what is?  I don't think at any point I said as solo experience would improve character writing, maybe a little more freedom in terms of overall writing. Though I suppose you could have characters do things outside of the PC and therefore stand on there on own a bit more. If anything I'm arguing the a solo experience doesn't mean that BioWare's character writing automatically has to be flushed down the toilet. 

[This is the End My Friend]

Anyways. I was only offering an opposing view to the belief that a BioWare game would cease to be a BioWare game if they removed the followers. I'm not interesting in arguing back a forth for eternity. 

[This is the End My Friend]

I guess I'll bite one last time. 

 

You can do those things with squadmates if you design game for such things. Why is 100% one thing or 100% the other? They can make a stealth game with a single character but they couldn't have stealth gameplay in a game with a small squad?

 

 

Sure. But I can't think of any good examples of followers using stealth in any game. There AI hasn't been good enough, usually they just stumble around like a bear in a china shop and blow your cover.

This is pure gibberish. A party doesn't impact those things at all. There are numerous occasions in party-based BioWare games where you're given the option of killing someone or not killing them. And you being the villain is a narrative choice, not a gameplay choice.

 
Yes. The PC being the villain is a narrative choice, but you the player choosing how you want to deal with that reality is a gameplay choice. You going to kill them all or try limit casualties.

 

Why is relegating the interesting characters to home base or whatever somehow better than having companions? Why would have a group of people back there talking to you but not people with you on the battlefield to help you fight? What possible justification could there be for that?

 

Why do they have to just sit around though? Maybe they have other **** to accomplish like Triss being the leader of the mage underground. I never said it would be better just that it wouldn't necessarily be worse, which seems to be the widely held belief. 

[Killroy]

Sure. But I can't think of any good examples of followers using stealth in any game. There AI hasn't been good enough, usually they just stumble around like a bear in a china shop and blow your cover.

 
I can't think of any good BioWare games with a solo PC, so we're even. 
 

Yes. The PC being the villain is a narrative choice, but you the player choosing how you want to deal with that reality is a gameplay choice. You going to kill them all or try limit casualties.

 
Again, nothing to do with having squadmates.  
 

Why do they have to just sit around though? Maybe they have other **** to accomplish like Triss being the leader of the mage underground. I never said it would be better just that it wouldn't necessarily be worse, which seems to be the widely held belief.

If they're off doing their own things then the interactions with them are much more limited. What's gained from that? And why is "maybe it wouldn't be any worse?" a good enough reason to fundamentally change the series?

[Queen Skadi]

Sure. But I can't think of any good examples of followers using stealth in any game. There AI hasn't been good enough, usually they just stumble around like a bear in a china shop and blow your cover. 

 

Well there was the Last of Us but we all know how that went

 

 

If she wasn't dancing around in plain sight she was teleporting to your enemies and knifing them in the throat instantly giving away your position. And they only had one follower they needed to account for and even then the stealth gameplay was kept extremely simple, imagine how much of a pain it would be with 2 or more or if they had more complex environmental interactions?

[Queen Skadi]

If they're off doing their own things then the interactions with them are much more limited. What's gained from that? And why is "maybe it wouldn't be any worse?" a good enough reason to fundamentally change the series?

 

If they are off doing then they have more life and agency within the story instead of just being drones that wait around base for the player to tell them what to do. Besides even if they do their do their own thing within the story I am sure the writers could still provide plenty of opportunities for you to interact with them. Seriously do you really need them to be around all the time just so they can tell you to come back later because they are in the middle of calibrations?

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Hey I think the whole going solo isn't a bad idea, but they can set up options for having companions to accompany you along the journey or be a lone wolf. I don't like the idea of having companions to be forced upon me and set it up for people to have companions in order to play the game, it's all about freedom of choice that people want to have companions or not.

[RatThing]

It's obvious that decend stealth gameplay is only possible when you are able to go alone. That's why they only did it in Arrival. And I actually think that it can add to the story as well going alone from time to time. Two of my favourite movies are The Martian and The Revenant (just seen it yesterday). Most of the time the hero is on his own trying to survive in a hostile environment. This feeling of being lost and abandoned and having no one else to rely on but yourself tells a story of its own. Even in Mass Effect one of the most breathtaking moments for me was the undervater mission during Leviathan. It was only too short and didn't offer any gameplay. 

In the next game there could be parts where the hero is left behind either on an uncharted world or behind enemy lines and have to fight his/her way back to his team. Or covert missions that (s)he has to accomplish undetected. If done right, this could be really great in terms of gameplay and story. 

[Nonoru]

That would mean no party banter, not sure I'm willing to give up on that for a whole game. 

 

Not that I would be against some solo missions/quests mind you. 

[Ahglock]

Hey I think the whole going solo isn't a bad idea, but they can set up options for having companions to accompany you along the journey or be a lone wolf. I don't like the idea of having companions to be forced upon me and set it up for people to have companions in order to play the game, it's all about freedom of choice that people want to have companions or not.

I think the thing is when you design with the idea of a solo protagonist you design, maps, stealth, combat, out of combat capabilities differently. Is it possible to design a party based game the same way? I guess, but I've never seen it. And it's that fundamental change of designing from the ground up without having to devote resources to a party and its AI or to things only used on one mission that they are asking for.

I'm going more to the general topic here and not a direct response to your post but It's certainly not going to happen in this game. Way too late in development. But I think bioware could pull it off. A archeologist, a private detective, spy there are tons of character ideas that they can base it on. Personal interactions easily can be far more robust than any previous bioware game just change the focus. Funny thing is I suspect a solo operator story would have more personal interactions in the game. It's not forced but a 3rd person shooter where you bring a squad is trending more toward combat than dude on his/her own.

[Novak]

But then I wont be able to hear the screams of my enemies.

 

But honestly would you not like to see more variety in the gameplay that could be offered by creating more of a solo orientated experience?

 

No because there are a ton of games which do exactly that.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I think the thing is when you design with the idea of a solo protagonist you design, maps, stealth, combat, out of combat capabilities differently. Is it possible to design a party based game the same way? I guess, but I've never seen it. And it's that fundamental change of designing from the ground up without having to devote resources to a party and its AI or to things only used on one mission that they are asking for.
I'm going more to the general topic here and not a direct response to your post but It's certainly not going to happen in this game. Way too late in development. But I think bioware could pull it off. A archeologist, a private detective, spy there are tons of character ideas that they can base it on. Personal interactions easily can be far more robust than any previous bioware game just change the focus. Funny thing is I suspect a solo operator story would have more personal interactions in the game. It's not forced but a 3rd person shooter where you bring a squad is trending more toward combat than dude on his/her own.

They can pull it off.

[Bruno Hslaw]

If BW had some vaguely intelligent AI, I would love companions. It seems a very Bioware type of thing. However when they stand on top of cover being shot, ignoring your orders NO. Spend the time and effort on them. Maybe they will be more than the bullet magnet that dies in seconds and I ignore until they get back up later. Right now an auto turret has as much use, firing a distraction and being a target to absorb bullets. 

[Laughing_Man]

You filthy necromancers.

 

Anyway, at this point I think Bioware won't do any worse with a mostly solo based game.

I would certainly enjoy more focus on story telling, choices, and lore elements; and less on mostly empty banter and stale romance.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

You filthy necromancers.

Anyway, at this point I think Bioware won't do any worse with a mostly solo based game.
I would certainly enjoy more focus on story telling, choices, and lore elements; and less on mostly empty banter and stale romance.

I think the option of going solo is a nice change without compromising the story and all.

[malloc]

I guess we have finally stopped pretending the game is an RPG and just said **** it.

[Revan Reborn]

As in not being constantly accompanied by AI companion characters and undertaking most missions solo? That is not to say that there would not be characters like the companions in previous Bioware games, it is just that they would not be in your party for most of the game. To be honest Bioware has not really done anything interesting with the party mechanic for a while now, at best all it really adds is an extra hand (and sometime hindrance) in combat and the occasional line of banter, whats more since the games expect you to use party members in missions it makes it hard for your party members to have any real agency in the plot since they always have to be on hand to assist you in whatever mission you are undertaking.

 

By getting rid of the whole party mechanic it would allow Bioware more freedom to do more interesting things with the gameplay that would currently be impossible or very awkward to implement with the party system as it is, it would also free up characters that would have usually been relegated to companion status to have more agency and allow them to do more interesting things in the plot.

 

And don't worry I am sure they could still work in your stupid ****** romance options as well.

If you think about it, Mass Effect is already kind of a solo adventure. Given how atrocious companion AI was in ME1-3, they were absolutely worthless on Insanity. I had to Rambo my way through all three games while companions were merely part of the backdrop. So, is what you are asking really necessary?

 

Also, you do realize you don't actually need to take companions with you? They are optional and not required.

 

Lastly, I'd argue it is companions (even in combat) that make BioWare games different from Skyrim, The Witcher 3, or any other AAA RPG on the market. Heck, I like having certain companions with me just for the party banter. I think we would lose something if we were to just remove companions from combat, even if companion AI is worthless.

 

If anything, BioWare needs to figure out a way to make companions more valuable, rather than irrelevant.

[kalpain]

Years ago I thought it would be cool to have an open world GTA type game set on the Citadel.  Mouse could be trying to be a crime boss or maybe he joins C-Sec.  Or Bailey leads a murder investigation that takes you to as yet unseen locations on the Citadel.  Or something set on Illium or Omega. Or something required you to explore all of these places in a way we were never able to before.  But oh well...

[wrdnshprd]

as long as there are plenty of characters to interact with.. i wouldnt have a problem.  but as others have said.. it would feel wrong, and not really a bioware game.  part of the fun of bioware games is the companion system.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Me personally I'm sick and tired of people follow me around all the time, I would prefer going solo. But make it an option like on Fallout or Elder Scrolls series will be nice to create balance between lone wolf and having company.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Honestly, and it may or may not be because XCOM 2 absorbs the majority of my current free time, but I could see a Mass Effect Tactics gaiden game being made, instead. The series already has a solid background lore to draw conflicts from, lots of races and factions to create stories, and many different guns, tech powers and Biotics that could translate into interesting gameplay options. Heck, I'm pretty sure enterprising modders coud turn XCOM 2 into a Mass Effect game via mods if they were dedicated; the game even has a race of aliens that are dead ringer for Krogans if you put a helmet on their faces and modders have already recreated Jack's tatoos, hairstyle and ear pieces.

 

By contrast,a solo game doesn't appeal to me. I play Bioware games, and heck RPGs in general, for the characters first and foremost. Solo RPGs always suffer from the lack of companyif you ask me, even the good ones like TW3.