52 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

So Dragon Age (and Bioware in general) uses time skips between scenes for dramatic impact.
 
This is old news. I'm more confused about how or why this is bad. Do we want extreme amounts of tedium time between events?

I'm not complaining about time skips, I'm complaining about the story acting as if large distances are trivial or non-existent. Just because the player doesn't experience the travel time, doesn't mean the characters should act like it doesn't exist.

Going from Skyhold to Val Royeaux and back again for a casual lunch with a friend makes no sense unless Orlais is the size of Luxembourg or something. Similarly Redcliffe surely isn't a days march from Denerim, as Morrigan implies.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

DA games are filthy casuals when it comes to fast travel. I hope in future installments, we get an option to disable fast travel, because its for casual scrubs.

[SomberXIII]

I don't mind accepting abstraction in the passage of time, but I do think DAI is much too casual about travel. The most blatant example for me being when the Inquisitor just casually pops down to Val Royeaux to have lunch with Cole

Lunch with Cole could happen during the visit to Val Royeaux. The game could have cut the scene separately for gameplay reason.

 

DA games are filthy casuals when it comes to fast travel. I hope in future installments, we get an option to disable fast travel, because its for casual scrubs.

Such arrogancy.

[Wulfram]

Lunch with Cole could happen during the visit to Val Royeaux. The game could cut the scene separately for gameplay reason.

I don't see the gameplay benefit that would justify it. Actually from my perspective of playing on an aging PC, having seperate trips to Val Royeaux is rather bad because it means lots of time looking at load screens.

And honestly from a strict roleplaying perspective I find it a bit difficult to justify any trips to Val Royeaux after the first, at least for a dutiful and committed Inquisitor. The reasons for making the trip are all rather minor and personal considering the threat we're facing and the length of the journey. Would have been better if they'd had the "main city" be Halamshiral or something.

[AedanStarfang]

DA games are filthy casuals when it comes to fast travel. I hope in future installments, we get an option to disable fast travel, because its for casual scrubs.

Aww is the PC elitist feeling a tad butthurt? 

[AlanC9]

DA games are filthy casuals when it comes to fast travel. I hope in future installments, we get an option to disable fast travel, because its for casual scrubs.

Of course, you can simply not use fast travel. Well, except for getting from one map to the other.

[AlanC9]

And honestly from a strict roleplaying perspective I find it a bit difficult to justify any trips to Val Royeaux after the first, at least for a dutiful and committed Inquisitor. The reasons for making the trip are all rather minor and personal considering the threat we're facing and the length of the journey. Would have been better if they'd had the "main city" be Halamshiral or something.

Unless Val Royeaux is on your way to, say, the Western Approach, etc. Or if you really need better schematics, I guess. Obviously this can't work for some of the scenes.

I had a similar problem with Dagna's mission in DA:O. You're going all the way back to Orzammar to tell her she's got the job?

[CronoDragoon]

So Dragon Age (and Bioware in general) uses time skips between scenes for dramatic impact.

 

This is old news. I'm more confused about how or why this is bad. Do we want extreme amounts of tedium time between events?

 

You don't like hearing what Tyrion had for lunch every day on his way to Daenerys for 1000 pages?

[GoldenGail3]

Aww is the PC elitist feeling a tad butthurt? 

 

I wish - I can plug in my peasant controller in my computer if i so wish; and it works too.

[nightscrawl]

Of course, you can simply not use fast travel. Well, except for getting from one map to the other.

 

I never use the fast travel around maps. In Skyhold it is simply more immersive for me, and it took quite a while for me to learn my way around completely the first play. On other maps I only use it when absolutely necessary, but I do avoid it 95% of the time. I also stick to roads or clearly defined paths if I can.

 

But of course it is required for going from place to place, that is, from map to map. In the future I would prefer the world to be fully open, but barring that, the DAI method was fine too. I did enjoy the freedom I had on each map.

 

I've always liked the Guild Wars style of exploration re: fast travel. The very first time you go anywhere in that game it MUST be the long way, on foot. After you arrive you unlock the fast travel node on the map and can alternatively use that from that time forward. But at least you've actually seen and gone through the wider world.

 

 

I'm not complaining about time skips, I'm complaining about the story acting as if large distances are trivial or non-existent. Just because the player doesn't experience the travel time, doesn't mean the characters should act like it doesn't exist.

Going from Skyhold to Val Royeaux and back again for a casual lunch with a friend makes no sense unless Orlais is the size of Luxembourg or something. Similarly Redcliffe surely isn't a days march from Denerim, as Morrigan implies.

 

Yes, I completely agree. Fast travel is/can be necessary depending on how the game is developed. But at least allow the player to have the illusion that significant time is passing. The farthest points in the game, The Western Approach and The Fallow Mire, take a few seconds on the loading screen. In reality it would probably be at least a month or so. Not acknowledging that seems a bit silly.

[CronoDragoon]

I've always liked the Guild Wars style of exploration re: fast travel. The very first time you go anywhere in that game it MUST be the long way, on foot. After you arrive you unlock the fast travel node on the map and can alternatively use that from that time forward. But at least you've actually seen and gone through the wider world.

Isn't this what DA: I does with its camps and Fast Travel points? With map fog, it doesn't let you warp anywhere unless you've discovered it on foot (and in the case of camps of course, built the camps).

[Wulfram]

I had a similar problem with Dagna's mission in DA:O. You're going all the way back to Orzammar to tell her she's got the job?

Yeah, I generally only half completed the quest for that reason. I just head-canoned the Warden would contact her after the archdemon was defeated.

[diaspora2k5]

I can teleport to almost anywhere in TW3 and FO4 too, this is in most open world RPGs except for like pokemon if you count that as one.

[Realmzmaster]

Fast travel (with markers and camps) is there for the convenience of the gamer who chooses to use it. It is an option that can chosen or not except from going from map to map in DAI.

 

It has been a staple in CRPGs for a long time. Some crpgs actually note the transition of time by using a calendar. It actually has zero effect on the story being told. Some crpgs use a wait command. So if you fast travel to a store and it is closed the gamer can speed up time by using the wait function.

 

These are options for the gamer's convenience. It is especially useful in a game that require a lot of back tracking between locations.

 

Fallout one had the vault dweller find a water chip in 150 days (which could be extend with a particular quest) and 500 days to stop the mutant invasion of the vault (400 days if you use the solution in the particular quest noted before).

 

That did not go over well with gamers who are completionists. The same with quests in DAI like Wicked Hearts Wicked eyes or the magical cold timer in Jaws of Hakkon.

 

The point is that some gamers are simply not bothered by it. Unless the game is going to be time dependent developers see very little point in making references to in game time.

 

DAO has the Archdemon wait around until the warden actually gathers his/her army.

[nightscrawl]

Isn't this what DA: I does with its camps and Fast Travel points? With map fog, it doesn't let you warp anywhere unless you've discovered it on foot (and in the case of camps of course, built the camps).

 

Well yes, but Guild Wars is an MMO, so they have connected maps spanning the world, and traveling through those is what I was referring to. There are some really out of the way places and merchants that you can only get to by slogging through on foot... or doing corpse runs (run through mobs until they kill you and get resurrected at a shrine that is closer to the destination, repeat and get closer).

[Arshei]

I can teleport to almost anywhere in TW3 and FO4 too, this is in most open world RPGs except for like pokemon if you count that as one.

 

At least when you teleport in Witcher 3 and Fallout 4 is to places you know you can travel walking in 10 minutes, and when you travel in the game there pass 4 hours.

[midnight tea]

At least when you teleport in Witcher 3 and Fallout 4 is to places you know you can travel walking in 10 minutes, and when you travel in the game there pass 4 hours.

 

We don't have an internal clock in DAI - so why assume the same thing doesn't happen there as well? There's no rule anywhere that says "no clock = all travel happens in real time".

 

On the contrary; it's easy to assume that some time has passed between travelling from one point to another if we know that tehres some distance between them. It's been done in games for decades. Heck - it happens in movies since their inception. One scene ends - another begins and in turns out we're in another spot, if the story requires so. Does this means that a character managed to travel from one spot to another in a second (excluding scenarios where they actually can), especially when we don't have a clock displaying passage of time for us on the screen???

 

No. And it's bizarre to assume that. For the most part it's a non-issue.

[Arshei]

We don't have an internal clock in DAI - so why assume the same thing doesn't happen there as well? There's no rule anywhere that says "no clock = all travel happens in real time".

 

On the contrary; it's easy to assume that some time has passed between travelling from one point to another if we know that tehres some distance between them. It's been done in games for decades. Heck - it happens in movies since their inception. One scene ends - another begins and in turns out we're in another spot, if the story requires so. Does this means that a character managed to travel from one spot to another in a second (excluding scenarios where they actually can), especially when we don't have a clock displaying passage of time for us on the screen???

 

No. And it's bizarre to assume that. For the most part it's a non-issue.

 

Because as I said before, it looks a bit... imposible, travel from SKyhold to Val Royeaux, in lore time from the game it should took us 3 weeks, nothing happened in Inquisition.

If there was an invisible clock Heaven should be destroyed the second time we travel to Val Royeaux.

[midnight tea]

Because as I said before, it looks a bit... imposible, travel from SKyhold to Val Royeaux, in lore time from the game it should took us 3 weeks, nothing happened in Inquisition.

If there was an invisible clock Heaven should be destroyed the second time we travel to Val Royeaux.

 

Who said that nothing at all happened in Inquisition? And who says that anything of note/drastic has to happen or that Inquisition doesn't have people or resources to deal with whatever happens? The time it took Inquisition to form, then close the Breach and defeat Corypheus lasted in what is estimated to be around a year to about 2 years time. Obviously there had to be weeks when nothing absolutely dramatic or notable happened, just like it didn't do so in DAO or Skyrim or every story that takes some time. Even in books or movies we just skip non-interesting, travelling part with sort descriptions like "it took them 6 weeks to travel to this city". How many weeks/months it took for Frodo to travel to Mordor after all and how many of them were noted to be eventful? We don't have description of every second, nor we assume that they've had adventures every day.

 

Then there's another thing - it is a time resembling Middle Ages/Renaissance times, and not the modern, fast-flowing time where stuff happens every second. Those were generally slower times, both because people lacked means for fast travel and there being less people in general.

 

Also - the events in Inquisition are triggered by events and not by passage of time per se. The Inquisitor has to acquire allies and close the Breach in order for Haven to be destroyed.

[AlanC9]

Because as I said before, it looks a bit... imposible, travel from SKyhold to Val Royeaux, in lore time from the game it should took us 3 weeks, nothing happened in Inquisition.
If there was an invisible clock Heaven should be destroyed the second time we travel to Val Royeaux.

If there was an invisible clock in ME1, Saren would win if Shepard did any UNC missions.

If there was an invisible clock in DA:O, the darkspawn would capture Denerim if the Warden went back and forth between the Circle Tower and Orzammar to do Dagna's quest.

If there was an invisible clock in KotOR, the Sith would...... but you can work this one out for yourself.

Stop pretending there's any difference between DAI and any other Bio game.

[almasy87]

It's kinda funny, specially when you travel to places for romance/companions quests.

Example 1: Solas' breakup. He and Lavellan travel (in their Skyhold outfits, so no armor) all the way to Crestwood, and then he leaves you. And I'm supposed to believe that they just walked separately back to Skyhold like that? I mean it would take weeks.. Imagine being heartbroken and having to travel on your own by feet for so long without any armor

Example 2: Cole's quest.. You get IQ (with armor on) and everyone else (Cole, Solas, Varric) are without any armor.. they go somewhere that looks like the Hinterlands.. quite far away from Skyhold! If they get attacked, will the IQ protect them all while they hide behind a rock or something?

Example 3: Romanced Cullen takes you somewhere that looks again like Crestwood.. and again you are only wearing your PJ Sure he's somewhat wearing his armor (?) but that sounds extremely dangerous, what if they were attacked by some bandits?

And there are other examples

I love this game, and this little imperfection amuses me so much

[nightscrawl]

It's kinda funny, specially when you travel to places for romance/companions quests.

Example 1: Solas' breakup. He and Lavellan travel (in their Skyhold outfits, so no armor) all the way to Crestwood, and then he leaves you. And I'm supposed to believe that they just walked separately back to Skyhold like that? I mean it would take weeks.. Imagine being heartbroken and having to travel on your own by feet for so long without any armor

Example 2: Cole's quest.. You get IQ (with armor on) and everyone else (Cole, Solas, Varric) are without any armor.. they go somewhere that looks like the Hinterlands.. quite far away from Skyhold! If they get attacked, will the IQ protect them all while they hide behind a rock or something?

Example 3: Romanced Cullen takes you somewhere that looks again like Crestwood.. and again you are only wearing your PJ Sure he's somewhat wearing his armor (?) but that sounds extremely dangerous, what if they were attacked by some bandits?

And there are other examples

I love this game, and this little imperfection amuses me so much

 

Hah I've thought about this in regard to Dorian's romance quest. If you kill the merchant he says some angry words and storms off. But you still have to go back to Skyhold... I don't imagine that journey was pleasant.

[caradoc2000]

"Beam me up, Scotty", captain Kirk had fast travel already in the sixties.

[AresKeith]

2/10

Bad troll thread

[diaspora2k5]

If there was an invisible clock in ME1, Saren would win if Shepard did any UNC missions.

If there was an invisible clock in DA:O, the darkspawn would capture Denerim if the Warden went back and forth between the Circle Tower and Orzammar to do Dagna's quest.

If there was an invisible clock in KotOR, the Sith would...... but you can work this one out for yourself.

Stop pretending there's any difference between DAI and any other Bio game.

Or really most RPGs in general.