291 réponses à ce sujet

[Akrabra]

If it had been KoTOR 1, there would have been these options:

 

A. "No Liara, I love you too much.  Something may happen to you!  I couldn't live with myself if Kai Leng suddenly jumped off a helicopter and smacked you so hard you were actually thrown in the air."

 

B."I deny your request.  This is my ship and I say who comes with me on missions.  Deal. With. it."

 

C. "Sure you can Liara.  Just make sure not to get all angsty and definitely don't keep spouting 'MY PEOPLE' like a broken record."

 

D. "Not a chance in hell.  You're obviously an author's pet and I'm tired of you getting hamfisted into every scene without me having a say!  Also, here's a puppy dog.  I want you to throw it out the airlock mid FTL.  Mwahahahaha"

hahaha priceless.

 

I'm disinteresting in debating the sematics of how much emotion can be invested in each aspect of the game.

 

Instead, I'll just amend my point to something more precise: Romance content is emotion driven and increases rp potential, which means that plenty of people have plenty to say about it, but it does not follow that it is all they care about.

 

I spend more time talking about food than I do breathing, but it does not follow that breathing is unimportant to me. Likewise, I spend more time talking about the romances and characters in general than I do combat, and yet combat is still the first thing I look for.

You're such a badass. 

[Lady Artifice]

The fact that it doesn't matter to me is why the common tendency to confuse my continued assertion of the obvious fact that most players/developers care a lot about romances with some kind of driving attempt to care about it is so very silly.

 

I fail to see what any of this has to do with you. I began by saying that I believe this fanbase as a whole does not exclusively care about the romance content. My position hasn't changed.

[Seraphim24]

I fail to see what any of this has to do with you. I began by saying that I believe this fanbase as a whole does not exclusively care about the romance content. My position hasn't changed.

 

I fail to see why it would be easy to answer why people would be wary of stating that romance content is most important to them? When I can't really think of a reason why that would be so, or why it should have anything to do with me specifically?

 

The fanbase, as a whole, does exclusively care about the romance content, now, at least, maybe not then, you need look no further than this very forum.

[Seraphim24]

There is no reason why stating

 

"I care about romantic aspects more than gameplay" should be of a huge concern to anyone, there are games that focus on gameplay more, and those people would naturally gravitate towards them etc.

 

Failing to simply state that seems odd to me, because there is as I say nothing really objectionable about that, and frankly since it's so obvious it would already happen anyway, regardless of how that position is characterized from developers or fans or anyone.

[Seraphim24]

Not to mention there's actually people pointing towards the convergence of media in the sense of games and linear narratives and other things combining as a phenomenon generally which makes the point somewhat moot anyway.

 

Maybe the problem is tagging it as "romance?" Bioware from the very beginning promoted themselves as like the "story company" at any rate.

[Lady Artifice]

I fail to see why it would be easy to answer why people would be wary of stating that romance content is most important to them? When I can't really think of a reason why that would be so, or why it should have anything to do with me specifically?

 

The fanbase, as a whole, does exclusively care about the romance content, now, at least, maybe not then, you need look no further than this very forum.

 

I disagree. I talk to a multitude of members of forum posters who care about the romances only secondarily, or not at all.

[Lady Artifice]

You're such a badass. 

 

Why, thank you.

[Seraphim24]

I disagree. I talk to a multitude of members of forum posters who care about the romances only secondarily, or not at all.

 

I've been talking to one in between posts, obviously they exist, and like in a post to him, I said "you are in the minority."

 

Not to mention, I'm pretty sure he himself accepts that fact and hasn't controverted my assertion of his place being in the minority.

[Hellion Rex]

Gimme six total, 3 of each gender. One bi, one straight, one gay. That way people have 2 possible options for romance. That's more than fair, in my opinion.

 

DAI did it very weirdly, at least to me.

[Seraphim24]

But again, if no one wants to answer my question as to why that's a bad thing to admit to? I guess it just doesn't make sense to me why saying you care about that more than a game is something people would shy away from, but also no one wants to explain that so whatever I guess.

[Seraphim24]

Like that guy said "I don't care about romance tis secondary"

 

No one here to my knowledge has ever said "I don't care about gameplay tis secondary" even though it's pretty clearly true for a lot of people.

 

I don't get why the second one is taboo.

 

As someone who often plays games I guess you could say motivated by gameplay (Game Boy Mario, Kirby, whatever) I've never been offended or something by them that Bioware and Blizzard made their.. things lol I don't know what to call them. I found (and still find) them kind of amusing and engaging.

 

In fact, just started the Republic Stormtrooper in SWTOR pretty interesting they really put a lot of effort into it it seems.

[FraQ]

But again, if no one wants to answer my question as to why that's a bad thing to admit to? I guess it just doesn't make sense to me why saying you care about that more than a game is something people would shy away from, but also no one wants to explain that so whatever I guess.

 

I can't talk to romance taking precedence over gameplay but I will tell you I'm more likely to enjoy a game with a great story and bad mechanics than I am a game with great gameplay and a terrible story.

 

Romance IMO adds a lot to a story but I don't think that romance by itself can make for a compelling game.

 

So while I wouldn't say Gameplay is secondary to romance for me. I will say that Gameplay is secondary to great writing.

 

Telltale games are a great example, there really isn't much there as far as gameplay goes but I still love their games because of the stories they tell and the characters they introduce me to.

 

*edit*

 

The original Mass Effect is maybe a better example. It's shooting/gameplay mechanics are the weakest of the trilogy by far but it's still my favorite because I find it's story to be the most enjoyable.

[Lady Artifice]

I've been talking to one in between posts, obviously they exist, and like in a post to him, I said "you are in the minority."

 

Not to mention, I'm pretty sure he himself accepts that fact and hasn't controverted my assertion of his place being in the minority.

 

And yet I remain unmoved by either your opinion or his.

 

The amusing bit here is that this all began with one of Donk's jokes.

 

Like that guy said "I don't care about romance tis secondary"

 

No one here to my knowledge has ever said "I don't care about gameplay tis secondary" even though it's pretty clearly true for a lot of people.

 

I don't get why the second one is taboo.

 

As someone who often plays games I guess you could say motivated by gameplay (Game Boy Mario, Kirby, whatever) I've never been offended or something by them that Bioware and Blizzard made their.. things lol I don't know what to call them. I found (and still find) them kind of amusing and engaging.

 

In fact, just started the Republic Stormtrooper in SWTOR pretty interesting they really put a lot of effort into it it seems.

 

My claim that I don't exclusively care about romances is not motivated by the idea being taboo, but by it being true. As for why it might be taboo, there are several reasons, but one of these is that plenty of posters are just tired and aggravatated by the predominance of romance related discussion on this forum. Hence the jibes about these games becoming a dating sim, or as Donk (again, jokingly) said, hentai.

[Seraphim24]

Well I can pile on this to a degree, I enjoyed Life is Strange as an experience more than a lot of full fledged "games," it was just kind of interesting to engage with even though it didn't really feature much "gameplay." 

 

On the other hand, I had no interest in Telltale games because even though they also were not games the experience wasn't interesting it all felt more conventional or something? 

 

That said fundamentally a game that devotes itself to being addicting and interesting is still quite a fun thing.

 

My claim that I don't exclusively care about romances is not motivated by the idea being taboo, but by it being true. As for why it might be taboo, there are several reasons, but one of these is that plenty of posters are just tired and aggravatated by the predominance of romance related discussion on this forum. Hence the jibes about these games becoming a dating sim, or as Donk (again, jokingly) said, hentai.

 

I don't know, if people complain about that, and keep coming here, maybe they care about it more than they're letting on or something. If someone is really annoyed by all that it's not crazy difficult to just go elsewhere.

[FraQ]

Well I can pile on this to a degree, I enjoyed Life is Strange as an experience more than a lot of full fledged "games," it was just kind of interesting to engage with even though it didn't really feature much "gameplay." 

 

On the other hand, I had no interest in Telltale games because even though they also were not games the experience wasn't interesting it all felt more conventional or something? 

 

That said fundamentally a game that devotes itself to being addicting and interesting can often still be quite fun for me.

 

That's fair enough and for me it's not a 100% unbreakable truth either.

 

I enjoyed the heck out of Call of Duty 4 and Gears of War simply because they nailed the gameplay to a degree that it was just pure joy to play. Even if the stories in those games were paper thin.

 

It's just that generally, I lean more towards good narrative being the most important aspect when it comes to my enjoyment and like I said, a good romance can add an awful lot to a good narrative.

[Seraphim24]

That's fair enough and for me it's not a 100% unbreakable truth either.

 

I enjoyed the heck out of Call of Duty 4 and Gears of War simply because they nailed the gameplay to a degree that it was just pure joy to play. Even if the stories in those games were paper thin.

 

It's just that generally, I lean more towards good narrative being the most important aspect when it comes to my enjoyment and like I said, a good romance can add an awful lot to a good narrative.

 

For me I think it's whether it's all integrated, there's nothing that annoys me more than someone making a big action game because they're supposed to make an action game or something and yet it plays like a really bad RPG or something.

 

If I'm playing an action game, it should be like an in your face sort of experience and that should permeates the other just general qualities of the experience like God Hand or something, it should be like... action rich.

 

If I'm playing an action game and it has like generic Romance in it or something it feels weird and usually the action game isn't balanced or fun to play anyway.

[Seraphim24]

I guess that's kind of the inspiration for my original comment, no matter what, I'm probably getting a Bioware game, they keep changing hats but it's all the same kind of "Story / Romance driven" RPG kind of experience in the end to me.

 

At which point there is really no harm in just saying that's what it is in the aggregate.

 

And which like I said I often find somewhat engaging, somewhat depending on the exact thing we're talking about, whatever it is, it doesn't fall into a strict typical Hollywood movie classification or something.

[Seraphim24]

I guess it just seems also to harken back to a phenomenon on my mind from some other thread just now, which is that this generalized mass of some kind of geekery sphere was homogenized, and, maybe I'm wrong, but it seems Bioware was on the far end of that mass of stuff, almost spilling into something else entirely.

 

The reality is they are the creme de la creme of that kind of this sort of specific phenomena of a nerdy geeky thing, they go the extra mile for their jokes and all that, and it's also tended to manifest itself in their romances and other things which make (made?) them unique. They shouldn't be pressed into following that center, rather, if anything, it would be the other way around, or at least, have more confidence in themselves relative to some of these other things.

 

It seems to me that "center" of that increasingly homogenized mass wanted the "fringe" so to speak, to philosophically align itself more with the center, but which from my perspective is just completely wrong. The fringe should should just be whatever it is, not respective of it's placement vis a vis other media.

 

The contents of that sphere have somewhat amorphous boundaries... they seem to decisively include some kind of comic sentiment rooting all the way back in MOBAs or in some multiplayer gaming, incorporate things like Hollywood comic adaptations and then seem to end somewhere in Blizzard and Bioware with a more full fledged experience.

 

I can't speak to realities of this or that, but I do know in this philosophical sense the Bioware "games" or romance driven experience with game elements or whatever are fine and may be looking forward to future releases... whatever they label themselves as...

[Gothfather]

When I think about functioning adults preying and desperately wanting to impregnate very young inexperienced girl..... ... ...... I kept remembering how I miss doing vivisection for animal studies.

 

And it wasn't a custom exactly, Matrons are the child-bearing age for the Asari. The only way for Liara to achieve her physiological maturity as a Matron while she was a Maiden was to mindmeld frequently with her partner which still could take very significant amount of years. Ironically, a human equivalent to this was to have sex with pre-teenage girls who are still in the cusp of puberty and in the process of sexual maturity which is around 15-17. And we're all aware that girls can get pregnant very very young. Now you see why I view this in disgust.

 

and the funny thing is I am actually a muslim woman and an easterner and I always criticize constantly about people's attitude on statutory rape and child marriages. So, what was so western about criticizing adults romanticizing themselves with this fantasy? 

 

You are WAY off base.

 

Asari are sexually active in the Maiden stage of life, they join mercenary groups, become exotic dancers leave "the nest" and explore the galaxy. They are by every RATIONAL definition based on the lore in game vs. players projecting something onto them that isn't there, equivalent to young college students who do some questionable things as they mature. Do all Asari behave the same way? No but to equate Liara to a teenage is to IGNORE every bit of in game lore. Liara was a PROFESSIONAL scientist who was trusted to lead a dig in her field of study. You do NOT give this kind of responsibility to a teen you give it to an adult.

 

You have projected the status of teen onto Liara but the in game evidence is overwhelming that she isn't equivalent to a teenage girl. She is a grown woman already finished her higher education and already some decades into her professional career.

 

Please provide me with ONE piece of in game lore that even suggest that Liara is a teen.

 

You know what the worst thing about your entire mindset is? You have me defending Liara perhaps the worst LI in Bioware's history. (Please all you Liara lovers this is my SUBJECTIVE opinion nothing you say can change that and nothing I say will change your opinion of Liara so please save the "hate.")

[Gothfather]

People talk most about what they care about most.

I think you have made a false syllogism.

 

What is true is that people don't invest time and energy into something they are indifferent to aka what they don't care about. yet this could be expressed in a positive or negative towards a given topic. Yet you assume that if they are silent it must be that they don't care. You can't make that leap. Silence isn't evidence of lack it is simply lack of evidence.

 

There use to be an off topic section of the forum I never used it but you can not say I didn't care about the issues or topics raised in there. it just isn't logical to say because I only use DA:I and ME:A forums currently that I now no longer care about the past games of bioware. There are just too many holes in your premiss for it to stand up.

[ZipZap2000]

I'm not sure how anything can measure up to Citadel in terms of tonal disconnect. It's the end of the universe, and we're having a comedic adventure regarding a clone and have a big party and play games in the arcade and casino.

One hell of a send off though. Even if it doesn't make sense story wise.

[Seraphim24]

I think you have made a false syllogism.

 

What is true is that people don't invest time and energy into something they are indifferent to aka what they don't care about. yet this could be expressed in a positive or negative towards a given topic. Yet you assume that if they are silent it must be that they don't care. You can't make that leap. Silence isn't evidence of lack it is simply lack of evidence.

 

There use to be an off topic section of the forum I never used it but you can't not say I didn't care about the issues or topics raised in there. it just isn't logical to say because I only use DA:I and ME:A forums currently that I now no longer care about the path games of bioware. There are just too many holes in your premiss for it to stand up.

 

Well let me make this clearer, there does appear to be a very strong interest in those aspects, and they also appear to be under some false geas imposed by the "gaming sphere" that you have to care about "gameplay" but seems to me to be more often about limiting the potential within Bioware games?

 

Dragon Age 2 was just a good experience, lots of interesting, unique, character interactions, etc, but then a bunch of people were criticizing it based on "gameplay" reasons and I'm like, the gameplay was about as good as it gets from Bioware and still better than most other "games" I play which barely invest in it at all.

 

I mean what were holding up as better? Skyrim? That thing was a massive quest a thon chore grind on a fundamental level, I mean, I still enjoyed it and all but Dragon Age 2 was a better game (or lets just say better experience) than Skyrim.

 

I'm not inventing that a lot of people found that focus very appealing, or that an equal number of people made groundless assertions that it was a "worse" game. Ok, maybe it wasn't so gamey, but compared to what, Arkham? Uncharted? Assassin's Creed? None of those games are gamey, Assassin's Creed 3 was really just a movie to be honest all the mechanics and things were so unbelievably awkward..

 

You can actually draw a similar analogy to FF13, it wasn't a very gamey Final Fantasy either, or something but neither were the arlier Final Fantasies.

[rapscallioness]

I would like the characters/squadmates/companions to have deeper story relevance in general. Then if I romance one, the potential plot twist, or story beats are more intensified for me as a player.

 

I would like BW to continue to work on the interactions with our companions regardless of romance. Yet if those main interactions are worked on, made more complex and nuanced, then the romances cannot help but improve and feel more nuanced as well.

 

So, no, I do not want BW to focus on the romances having deeper story relevance, rather I want BW to focus on the squadmates in general having deeper story relevance. The side effect of this would, ofc, be more interesting romances.

 

I honestly think that BW has made improvements in both areas in ME3 and DAI. The companion interactions were improved in ME3 -there was more in-field banter vs ME2; people moved about the ship, talked to each other. If BW can just keep moving forward with this and actually bring them into the story in more significant and interesting ways, it would be great. And, I mean, it's not like the squaddies are really disposable (except SM), so you might as well use the companions.

 

I think both ME3 and DAI made great strides in the romance dept. The romance scenes were unique. The romances themselves were unique to each character, and not always clear cut, or press the heart button twice to get laid-romance by rote. So they are making progress, imho.

 

And some betrayal, please. Or at least make me Doubt! Not like Jacob. I mean betrayal from a squaddie in the main story that happens to everybody; being in a romance with them only adds to the experience, for better or worse. Or make me doubt them some way, only to find I was mistaken later.

 

I want more nuanced, interesting and story involved squaddies to be the focus. The romances will follow.

[ABASOVA]

I'm not sure how anything can measure up to Citadel in terms of tonal disconnect. It's the end of the universe, and we're having a comedic adventure regarding a clone and have a big party and play games in the arcade and casino.

 

 

That's ok though cuz...

 

We's immortal now! 

[ShallowlLife9871]

O.0 what is Kaidan doing?