291 réponses à ce sujet

[Battlebloodmage]

To be fair, Curie is only installed in a body made by the Institute,her personality comes from the Miss Nanny unit she was. Also isn't this spoiler territory?

I think most people have problem with the body was made with your son's DNA because in a sense, Danse's personality is also was different from the one he was born with anyway. Danse was brainwashed by the Railroad and released into the Rivet City where the BoS found him. Still, they're not really incest anyway, because your son's DNA is only being used as a template, the DNA variation is different between every synth and every human. Maxson stated that he found out about Danse after comparing DNA to Institute synths, meaning that synths have different DNA from each other and from other humans. If Danse had the similar DNA to you, Maxson would have found out and gets all pissy. Basically synths are not really related to you, even DNA wise, so they're not really your children. 

[Donk]

I feel like I'm reading a tumblr post.

I just choked on my cigarette

[Donk]

Barely legal also means someone who is within their late teens specifically 18 years old. Intelligence and sexual maturity hardly correlate to one another either. Does a teenage genius meant she's mentally and sexually mature as an adult as well? (which reminds me of this story of girl genius who became a prostitute... adults were taking advantage of her and she fell apart..)

Liara was primarily based on Mission Vao. ME1's Liara carry a lot of Mission's personality in particularly an intelligent naive innocent girl... except that Mission is 14 years old meanwhile ME1's Liara is 106 and she herself quote "she is barely considered more than a child" by Asari standard, you can simply knock the 0 in between that if that's make a difference. It was until in ME2 and ME3 that she began to develop mentally and physically into a mature woman. Mission Vao also have her adult counterpart who is Vette in SWTOR who is a slave and is nothing like Mission or Liara.

So, do I feel ME1 Shepard, who is an adult in late 20s, is taking an advantage of a young girl who is approximately in her late teens? Yes. It doesn't help that Meer make himself sound like a creep. Then again it wouldn't be odd if they had a chaste relationship like Tali and Josephine and naturally progress into a sexual relationship in later installment.

But my main issue in the last few posts wasn't about her age, it was when adults defending themselves projecting their fantasy of her having their babies. Saying that she's old enough to have sex equals to she's old enough to have their babies..... this young very intelligent alien girl, the person you see grow in three games, with 900 years more to go in her life.. its just plain wrong, man.

Friggin BSN.

Okay, I'm going to bite anyway. I've been ignoring these posts so far.

You are overthinking it way too much. I don't even know what Mission V whatever is from, nor do I really give a toss but let's simplify this, shall we?

1. It is true Liara is young for an Asari. But she is old enough. She is a fully developed woman and the reason she had no sexual experience prior to Shepard was because she kept to herself and devoted her life (up until the point of getting tangled up with Shepard and the reaper threat) to studying Prothean artefacts. She is or at least was an introvert.

2. There is a first time in any woman's life to become sexually active. She rather shyly expresses an attraction to Shepard. It isn't "taking advantage". She is an intelligent woman who makes her own choices. The shyness is one part to do with inexperience but not solely based on her age. Like I said, she spent a lot of her time alone and studying. Just because she is "young by Asari standards" doesn't equate to her being some pre pubescent child that is coaxed into having sex.

3. It's a game. So what if people like the idea of babies? It isn't gonna happen because *gasp* it isn't actually real anyway! She has fully developed breasts, she talks intelligently and maturely and she looks like a woman. Not a teenager. Now I'm no lore expert on Asari but is there some "legal age" an Asari has to be before she decides to join? And keep in mind that with Asari the physical aspect is actually optional. Asari sex is just mind melding, learning the life experience of the species she chooses to meld with, carrying on the knowledge etc.

As somebody who enjoys the Liara romance and likes her character, I don't appreciate the insinuation that I'm some pervert into borderline paedophilia. I went through this exact same argument about Sera.

[Norhik Krios]

You're kidding right mate?

Life persists because people breed. Has nothing to do with romance. Romance is more or less a novelty that people with emotions like to have. Some people can have romance without banging at all. Depends on the purpose.

I don't even know why he went with that cheesy but true quote, in this thread. We were talking about "different romance options" and not "no romance at all". 

[Donk]

I don't even know why he went with that cheesy but true quote, in this thread. We were talking about "different romance options" and not "no romance at all".

He was trying to pick up

[goofyomnivore]

I'd take lesser romance options if it meant the few in the game had more depth. I usually end up watching half of the romances on YouTube because I simply cannot replay the game that many times to experience them all. 

[NM_Che56]

Its funny how that works.  When you have a reason to care for a character other than the fact that they are a romance option, it tends to have more of an impact.

I agree!  There are so many ways games can tackle relationships, and not just the romantic kind.

[Kappa Neko]

Ok, Bioware romances are often cringe-worthy while the friendships are wonderful and make their games for me along with banter of any combination...

 

Best thing about DAI? Dorian and female inquisitor friendship! Made me almost cry twice. Second best thing? Mommy Morrigan. Made me tear up too.

Best thing about Mass Effect? Garrus and Liara, best friends in the galaxy (though the Liara/femShep romance is one of the few epic ones because story!).

 

So I'm ALL for fewer romances that are actually written decently. And yes, the story romances are usually the most immersive imo. They add a lot to both the LI and the protagonist. Though I suspect a close friendship to a story-relevant character would be just as good. I was actually slightly disappointed that the Liara romance didn't add much because she's just as amazing as a friend. You get 99% the same content. All her most touching scenes I got in the friendship too in ME3.

 

I would be fine with only one male and one female option, both bisexual (or player-sexual, they don't need to have a stated sexuality outside the romance). If that character is well-written, it should be easy to enjoy the romance.

 

I don't think the Witcher games are the best example of a well-written romance, imo there is little romance content. Certainly not more than in Bioware games. But of course it's all better integrated exactly because there are only two options (only one in W2). And it's an established relationship. So of course every conversation between Geralt and Yen/Triss is going to be loaded with (restrained) emotion, unlike in games where the romances are unconnected extra content. Bioware LIs will say the same thing regardless of relationship status 90% of the time. Because writing two versions of evry conversation for all romance companions would probably double the spoken lines in the game. Very expensive.

Yennefer is not easy to like in the game (adore her in the books though!) and while the romance has sweet moments, it did little for me (so much better in the books). Now Geralt and Ciri, that's great stuff in the game too. Very emotional!

So again, for me the non-romance relationship (Ciri) wins against the romance (Yen or Triss).

 

That's my emotional reaction anyway.^^

 

 

PS: I'm still searching for a way to erase the Jacob romance from my memory. If romance option means the female protagonist will ALWAYS talk like that, I vote for NO romance! Or Witcher-style. If that means male protagonist and a female LI, so be it. Anything is better than "I'm more interested in talking for a bit". This is what I mean by cringe-worthy Bioware flirtation. *shudders*

[wright1978]

I think 4 player sexual/bisexual is the minimum personally for a bioware game with an unfixed protagonist and still allow proper level of choice.
Witcher 3 got away with having 2 because of the set sexuality of the protagonist. I certainly wouldn't have tolerated one of the women being removed, as Triss and Yen appeal to very different audiences.

Also think you've got to be very careful with close friendships as not everyone will want to be friends with said character in a game based round a player characterised protagonist. I wouldn't say Liara friendship works that well as evidenced by the vociferous group that took issue with her handling.

[Gothfather]

Barely legal also means someone who is within their late teens specifically 18 years old. Intelligence and sexual maturity hardly correlate to one another either. Does a teenage genius meant she's mentally and sexually mature as an adult as well? (which reminds me of this story of girl genius who became a prostitute... adults were taking advantage of her and she fell apart..)

 

Liara was primarily based on Mission Vao. ME1's Liara carry a lot of Mission's personality in particularly an intelligent naive innocent girl... except that Mission is 14 years old meanwhile ME1's Liara is 106 and she herself quote "she is barely considered more than a child" by Asari standard, you can simply knock the 0 in between that if that's make a difference. It was until in ME2 and ME3 that she began to develop mentally and physically into a mature woman. Mission Vao also have her adult counterpart who is Vette in SWTOR who is a slave and is nothing like Mission or Liara.

So, do I feel ME1 Shepard, who is an adult in late 20s, is taking an advantage of a young girl who is approximately in her late teens? Yes. It doesn't help that Meer make himself sound like a creep. Then again it wouldn't be odd if they had a chaste relationship like Tali and Josephine and naturally progress into a sexual relationship in later installment.

 

But my main issue in the last few posts wasn't about her age, it was when adults defending themselves projecting their fantasy of her having their babies. Saying that she's old enough to have sex equals to she's old enough to have their babies..... this young very intelligent alien girl, the person you see grow in three games, with 900 years more to go in her life.. its just plain wrong, man.

 

Sorry but this smacks of projection. Something inside YOU or your life experience has wormed its way into this conversation.

 

When someone has had a professional academic CAREER for half their life they are not incapable of consent and no RATIONAL person can say yeap that just a smart teenager.  You ask any academic in their twenties if they feel like old more esteemed members of their field ever treat them or consider them little more than a child. I am sure you'll find it common. You are projecting some pretty ugly things into the game with NO evidence. Mission was not a romanceable character in KOTOR. She never is overtly sexual towards the player or anyone else. She also isn't naive, for christ sake she LEADS you through Talos saving your ass because of your naivete when you first meet her. Yes she is blind sided by FAMILY, her brother. It isn't naive to believe family will have your back or believe in family longer than other's would. The only person I know who had the hots for her was a 15 year old (at the time) brother of a friend of mine, an entirely age appropriate response from a hormonal teen.

 

Part of liara's social awkwardness is that she is "pure blooded" Asari so she has encountered racism and discrimination from the very peers she would have learned these skills from. This isn't because she is a 'teenager.' NOTHING in the lore backs you up. you have something dark and twisted inside you. yes you. Nothing in the game suggest anything you are projecting. And since when is pregnancy in connecting ADULTS wrong? You need to examine what is wrong with YOU before you start equating romantic relationship with Liara to rape, paedophilia or some kind of Force non consensual pregnancy issue. Nothing in the game suggest anything of these really ugly & hurtful accusations. YOU are the ugly person in this thread with you insinuations that are nasty and truly dark.

 

damn you for making me defend Liara AGAIN. i honestly feel sullied by your opinion it is gross.

[Mistic]

Ok, Bioware romances are often cringe-worthy while the friendships are wonderful and make their games for me along with banter of any combination...

 

Best thing about DAI? Dorian and female inquisitor friendship! Made me almost cry twice. Second best thing? Mommy Morrigan. Made me tear up too.

Best thing about Mass Effect? Garrus and Liara, best friends in the galaxy (though the Liara/femShep romance is one of the few epic ones because story!).

 

So I'm ALL for fewer romances that are actually written decently. And yes, the story romances are usually the most immersive imo. They add a lot to both the LI and the protagonist. Though I suspect a close friendship to a story-relevant character would be just as good. I was actually slightly disappointed that the Liara romance didn't add much because she's just as amazing as a friend. You get 99% the same content. All her most touching scenes I got in the friendship too in ME3.

 

I had the same feeling, to be honest. Morrigan or Alistair as friends in DA:O, Aveline and Varric in DAII, and my personal canon Inquisitor is a female elf not because any Solas or Cullen nonsense, but because the friendship with Dorian and Cassandra made for a fantastic roleplaying experience in DA:I. And in Mass Effect there's Garrus, of course, especially since ME2.

 

Sometimes, I think that by trying to make some characters for good romances they end up turning them into great friend material. So yeah, Bioware, go ahead, make good romantic options... but please, make good friendship options too.

[SerriceIceDandy]

I was pretty happy with how it was done in DA:I. Having companions having certain preferences in whom they're attracted to added a little more depth to them. It had enough to cater to everyone, but still maintained variety. 

 

If the character you adored wasn't romance-able because of their preferences: tough ******, that's life. I think that way of thought should be continued when writing new romance arcs. 

 

Although to have the game acknowledge who you've decided to pursue within the main narrative is probably a bit too demanding. 

[KaiserShep]

Ok, Bioware romances are often cringe-worthy while the friendships are wonderful and make their games for me along with banter of any combination...

Best thing about DAI? Dorian and female inquisitor friendship! Made me almost cry twice. Second best thing? Mommy Morrigan. Made me tear up too.
Best thing about Mass Effect? Garrus and Liara, best friends in the galaxy (though the Liara/femShep romance is one of the few epic ones because story!).

So I'm ALL for fewer romances that are actually written decently. And yes, the story romances are usually the most immersive imo. They add a lot to both the LI and the protagonist. Though I suspect a close friendship to a story-relevant character would be just as good. I was actually slightly disappointed that the Liara romance didn't add much because she's just as amazing as a friend. You get 99% the same content. All her most touching scenes I got in the friendship too in ME3.

I would be fine with only one male and one female option, both bisexual (or player-sexual, they don't need to have a stated sexuality outside the romance). If that character is well-written, it should be easy to enjoy the romance.

I don't think the Witcher games are the best example of a well-written romance, imo there is little romance content. Certainly not more than in Bioware games. But of course it's all better integrated exactly because there are only two options (only one in W2). And it's an established relationship. So of course every conversation between Geralt and Yen/Triss is going to be loaded with (restrained) emotion, unlike in games where the romances are unconnected extra content. Bioware LIs will say the same thing regardless of relationship status 90% of the time. Because writing two versions of evry conversation for all romance companions would probably double the spoken lines in the game. Very expensive.
Yennefer is not easy to like in the game (adore her in the books though!) and while the romance has sweet moments, it did little for me (so much better in the books). Now Geralt and Ciri, that's great stuff in the game too. Very emotional!
So again, for me the non-romance relationship (Ciri) wins against the romance (Yen or Triss).

That's my emotional reaction anyway.^^


PS: I'm still searching for a way to erase the Jacob romance from my memory. If romance option means the female protagonist will ALWAYS talk like that, I vote for NO romance! Or Witcher-style. If that means male protagonist and a female LI, so be it. Anything is better than "I'm more interested in talking for a bit". This is what I mean by cringe-worthy Bioware flirtation. *shudders*

Dorian/F!Quisitor is probably my favorite buddy pairing in these games. I can never avoid the heart icon dialogue, because it always makes them seem like a fun duo.
One of my personal favorite exchanges is when Inky can say: I was...distracted. Dorian: Distracted? By my wit and charm? I have plenty of both. Inquisitor: Today at least. Dorian: Ooh! You wound me!

[Lady Artifice]

1) Ok

2) more mo-cap sequences, Dialogue options.   More actors.  So, to answer your question, maybe or maybe not.

 

 

Comment about budget notwithstanding, I felt more of a connection to Elizabeth (Bioshock: Infinitie), Ellie (The Last of Us), Clementine (The Walking Dead) and Quiet (MGS V) than I have with most Bioware characters that were romance options.   I would rather have a more meaningful relationship development (and not necessarily romance) than a bunch of superficial options or interactions.  

 

I certainly don't blame you for liking those characters and their stories. And this motivation seems much less spurious than some hypothetical assertions about the relative resources involved. 

 

Of course, there is another downside to those examples. Involved as they are, some of them serve as a core motivation for the progression of the plot. Elizabeth in particular is a good example of this, because the development of that relationship is entirely contingent on the PC being exactly Booker, and no one else. 

 

In order to recreate similar deeply involved and plot relevant story arcs, Bioware wouldn't just have to place constrictions on the number of romance options, but also RP options. That has historically proven to be a controversial decision in a series that usually emphasizes roleplaying freedom. 

[Gothfather]

Dorian/F!Quisitor is probably my favorite buddy pairing in these games. I can never avoid the heart icon dialogue, because it always makes them seem like a fun duo.
One of my personal favorite exchanges is when Inky can say: I was...distracted. Dorian: Distracted? By my wit and charm? I have plenty of both. Inquisitor: Today at least. Dorian: Ooh! You wound me!

Dorian is actually a great friend for the male Inquisitor too. If you don't pursue the romance option with him he treats you much the same way. And because his responses are all "scripted" in that he treats you in X manner based on your actions there isn't really a gender divide with this friendship. I never felt Dorian was trying to get in my pants in my male inquisitor playthrough because I never pursued the romance with him but i was there for him as a friend when he went through his "daddy issues." Which has almost become obligatory with bioware companions. Protagonist as therapist.

 

Dorian and Sera have great friendship relationships/scenes that are not exclusive to the opposite gender. they can be pursued my same gender inquisitors, I do it all the time and encourage people to do so.

[Seraphim24]

I disagree with you but our disagreement is based on subjective things.

 

I play Bioware games for their stories but it is false to say I don't care about game play. DA2 is a game i have only played twice and I hated the game play so much that it is the only Bioware game where i turned down the difficulty to the easiest lvl simply to make the game end faster. I love Hawke and Hate Anders. I think Anders is the best villain Bioware has ever written. And i "hate" him because he was so well done and such a great progression from Awakenings to DA2. But i really really hate DA2 for its game play. Pretty much every other RPG that bioware has done had superior game play to DA2. I don't understand how you think DA2 is as good as it gets.

 

I disagree with you about Skyrim. I think Skyrim blows DA2 out of the water in terms of quality. But again likes and dislikes on media are subjective there is no right or wrong. My opinion is 100% right and correct for ME. Your opinion is 100% right and correct for you.

 

For many people DA2 does the worse crime you can do for a game it was boring to "play." Yes the story was interesting but the environments and level design were so boring and they reused so many environments that should have been unique because the nature of telling the story over ten years means you will see the same locations over and over again so two different caves shouldn't look and be the exact same. The combat was bland and DA:I while taking the same foundation refined it so that it is actually enjoyable to fight things. In DA2 it was monotonous, the endless enemy spawns, enemies falling from the sky. All the bits in between the story where a chore to endure for more than a small minority.

 

Oh I didn't realize you responded to me here till just now

 

Okay so... yeah if the level design in Dragon Age 2 is boring then Skyrim is downright lifeless by an extension of that logic. There essentially isn't level design, practically speaking.

 

Prologue, ok, that's clearly the first level.

Level 2 would have to be the Barrows right? I assume, anyway, well if you try and get to the Barrows naturally the first thing you'll probably do is run into some over-tuned bandits who will drag you through the snow, then you wander around the base of the mountain for awhile trying to find the inroads, and like none of this is at all clear.

 

Moreover, speaking of boring if you decide to go to Whiterun or Windhelm or something next you are going to be running along the road for a very long time.

 

None of the objectives or organization in Skyrim is at all elegant, and the RPG mechanics are as simple as it gets...

 

Frost, Fire, Lighting spells. Sneak, dual wield, backstab. One hand sword, two hand sword, shield. It's all very straightforward.

 

Not to mention, the huge amount of grinding... I mean the game is almost pure grind, with hundreds of thousands of quests, it makes quite unreasonable expectations on time in many ways. And many of those quests are quite generic (There's a bounty on bandit X)

 

It's designed as mass appeal popcorn RPG, it can quite boring at times

 

That said I actually found it kind of fun in the aggregate, but Dragon Age 2 was much more active and sumptious in the combat and overall experience.

 

In many ways you could actually consider a DA2 a popcorn sort of experience as well, but in that case everything is much more focused around the abilities and levels, it's like an extremely insanely optimized RPG.

[Ryzaki]

I think most people have problem with the body was made with your son's DNA because in a sense, Danse's personality is also was different from the one he was born with anyway. Danse was brainwashed by the Railroad and released into the Rivet City where the BoS found him. Still, they're not really incest anyway, because your son's DNA is only being used as a template, the DNA variation is different between every synth and every human. Maxson stated that he found out about Danse after comparing DNA to Institute synths, meaning that synths have different DNA from each other and from other humans. If Danse had the similar DNA to you, Maxson would have found out and gets all pissy. Basically synths are not really related to you, even DNA wise, so they're not really your children. 

 

eh the real reason it's not an issue is because even if synths are related to you synths can't breed. Therefore no issue.

[kalikilic]

So in the last few Bioware games they have made almost all our companions romancable.  While this is great and I love the verity I think I would like them to limit the number of romance options but weave the romance into the overall story.  You know have your romance option or lack there of come up in the main storyline from time to time or get alternate scenes from time to time.  And have other companions just in general treat the two of you as a couple. 

i agree with this and would like this as well.

 

however, people like variety as well and i dont believe bioware would want to narrow options, since it means so much to the fan base. all that mattered to me was Ashley and it would have been amazing to have a deeper romance story with her, more dialogues, more scenes and more in line with the main storyline of mass effect 3. but they could not even get the ending correct.

 

moving forward, they have the opportunity to get it right this time. having a romance storyline that ties into the main storyline would be amazing. imagine for a minute the cliche' plot of the villain kidnapping your LI. its hella cliche but it'll still capture my attention, if done with some intricate writing and actions, that are relevant and defining to the main story line.

 

good stuff. props to OP for not opening a useless thread.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I think BioWare should research Kama Sutra and put it's teachings in their games to make romance more meaningful.

[Battlebloodmage]

eh the real reason it's not an issue is because even if synths are related to you synths can't breed. Therefore no issue.

You're saying it as if gay incest is ok or something. 

[Ryzaki]

You're saying it as if gay incest is ok or something. 

 

Sole and Danse/Curie do not have the family dynamic that makes incest harmful. Without the risk of breeding it's a complete non issue. You can find it gross but trying to say it's harmful for Sole to romance Danse/Curie (which is the actual reason incest is banned and not just "oh that's gross.") is laughable.

[Battlebloodmage]

Sole and Danse/Curie do not have the family dynamic that makes incest harmful. Without the risk of breeding it's a complete non issue. You can find it gross but trying to say it's harmful for Sole to romance Danse/Curie (which is the actual reason incest is banned and not just "oh that's gross.") is laughable.

Yes, which is something I've mentioned, they're not related in term of family familiarity or DNA wise, so they're not really considered related. Their DNA is different, and they have never been raised as a family. Not sure why you quoted me.

[Ryzaki]

Yes, which is something I've mentioned, they're not related in term of family familiarity or DNA wise, so they're not really considered related. Their DNA is different, and they have never been raised as a family. Not sure why you quoted me.

 

Their DNA isn't that different is my point. They're based off Father which means they're similar enough to Sole to be seen as "relatives" via DNA. (Remember they want the purity of Father's DNA to "perfect" the synths. It's highly unlikely they used other sources since they're corrupted).  It just ultimately doesn't matter because everything else.

[Battlebloodmage]

Their DNA isn't that different is my point. They're based off Father which means they're similar enough to Sole to be seen as "relatives" via DNA. It just ultimately doesn't matter because everything else.

It seems more like a blueprint than anything. Their DNA is different between synths and between each other, and even different from the SS, so no, they are that different. Maxson didn't even find any connection between the SS and Danse which would have shown up if they're related. 

[Ryzaki]

It seems more like a blueprint than anything. Their DNA is different between synths and between each other, and even different from the SS, so no, they are that different. Maxson didn't even find any connection between the SS and Danse which would have shown up if they're related. 

 

Again you keep mentioning Maxson like he'd have any reason to check the Sole's DNA (especially since they know the PC is from a vault) particularly against Danse's. Unless you have proof of Maxson checking Sole's DNA I fail to see the relevance. It's likely it's Shaun's DNA with slight variations at the most. More than enough to count as family.