126 réponses à ce sujet

[tomkaa988]

Why do many people here want to make the game worse?

 

Renegade in ME2 was TERRIBLE. Shepard acts so out of character and goes out of his way to do these actions. It was the "rule of cool" instead of character consistency.

 

In fact ME3 did it far better than the first two games in that Renegade was practical but at times heartbreaking, and for the most part, made realistic and consistent to a paragon who may want to choose some Renegade options. And who needs the neutral option when the dialogue itself for the two choices are dialed down towards neutral. ME3 Shepard is FAR from bipolar.

 

What happens when a Paragon wants to make a Renegade decision in ME2, he leaves character.

 

Seriously, ME3 Shepard is better...he has more of a consistent character than the first two games, which was stuck in uncanny valley. ME3 Shepard is more like your Adam Jansens, your Geralts, your Max Caulfields....and its those kinds of characters that a dialogue wheel is needed. ME2's Shepard is not quite Fallout 4 bad, but its bad.

regardless of anything, we're not "making" the game. our chatter here wont affect me:a in any way, so don't cry.

in me2 shep was abandoned by the alliance, councel etc, why would they act all paragon? what if the character we're trying to play doesn't have any noble feelings? it still is in a way a role-playing game. what if i wanna play a badass angry on the whole world rogue spectre? what if i suceed? awesome then! there's nothing worse than an illusion of choice - which similar dialogue options often provide. you can play your game paragon all the way, no one's forcing your hand you know? and that's the beauty of it - to have variety

[txgoldrush]

Then why not get rid of the dialogue wheel? That would help with role playing.

 

The problem with Bioware VA'd protagonists outside ME3 is that hey are stuck in the uncanny valley between established character and blank slate. ME3 choose to go towards the former and it works.

[MrFob]

Then why not get rid of the dialogue wheel? That would help with role playing.

 

The problem with Bioware VA'd protagonists outside ME3 is that hey are stuck in the uncanny valley between established character and blank slate. ME3 choose to go towards the former and it works.

...for you.

 

Personally, I didn't like the constraint of diversity that was introduced in ME3 at all. I didn't mind the fact that you could play a bipolar Shepard before. After all, you didn't have to. No one forced you to take every single interrupt.

 

Granted, on a first playthrough, it can occasionally be difficult to anticipate what your choices really mean but especially for people like us who do multiple playthroughs and develop an idea for how the system works, ME1/2 gave you a much wider variety for developing interesting paragade and renegon characters. I preferred that.

[Livi14]

I thought ME3 had some great renegade interrupts as well. Punching Gerral and killing Udina come to my mind.

I really don't see much difference between ME1, ME2 and ME3 when it comes to renegade options. Some renegade choices feel pragmatic while others were just evil or make Shepard sound like a racist *** (like killing the council and the settlers on Feros, choosing Morinth, shooting Falere).

[Master Warder Z_]

while others were just evil or make Shepard sound like a racist ***

 

 

[KaiserShep]

I thought ME3 had some great renegade interrupts as well. Punching Gerral and killing Udina come to my mind.

I really don't see much difference between ME1, ME2 and ME3 when it comes to renegade options. Some renegade choices feel pragmatic while others were just evil or make Shepard sound like a racist *** (like killing the council and the settlers on Feros, choosing Morinth, shooting Falere).

 

I think that the shoot-the-colonists option is actually a reasonable one to add. As far as gameplay is concerned, the colonists basically give love taps compared to other enemies, especially since there's not a biotic in the bunch, but in-universe, using the gas grenades over neutralizing them is technically the riskier option, especially if you accidentally use up the grenades before getting them all lol

[themikefest]

Nevertheless, cup checking Admiral Gerrel after the Geth Dreadnought is never not satisfying.

I would've shot the clown in the foot.

 

Still, there were a couple of parts in the game that could've used an interrupt.

[Master Warder Z_]

I would've shot the clown in the foot.

 

[themikefest]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvtQWvC2hYo

I only shot Conrad once. More to see the outcome than anything else. I like his character. Too bad he didn't get more scenes in the trilogy.

[Quarian Master Race]

Gerrel "renegade" interrupt is so lame. What kind of wuss gets mad at a brilliantly executed strategy that successfully destroys the enemy toasters with zero friendly casualties? Not renegade at all.

I should have been given an interrupt to shake that man's hand or give him a hearty brofist for his maverick boldness. Or given Raan a slap upside the bucket for being such a nagging nancy about it, either way.

[themikefest]

Gerrel "renegade" interrupt is so lame. What kind of wuss gets mad at a brilliantly executed strategy that successfully destroys the enemy toasters with zero friendly casualties? Not renegade at all.

I should have been given an interrupt to shake that man's hand or give him a hearty brofist for his maverick boldness. Or given Raan a slap upside the bucket for being such a nagging nancy about it, either way.

He had an itchy trigger finger. Shepard didn't have to help him and his species to deal with the dreadnought, but she/he did.

[Quarian Master Race]

He had an itchy trigger finger. Shepard didn't have to help him and his species to deal with the dreadnought, but she/he did.

Yeah s/he did. Blame Hackett for ordering Shepard to do so and the plot for requiring it.

[themikefest]

Yeah s/he did. Blame Hackett for ordering Shepard to do so and the plot for requiring it.

I don't care about Hackett.  And as far as the plot goes. I usually have enough ems for the ending I want by that time.  So if I could avoid dealing with the geth and quarians, I would.

[aoibhealfae]

I though the Diplomatic/Sarcasm/Intimidation work well in DAII. The neutral responses is just as abrasive as the aggressive option and the sarcasm can sometimes come as anger and denialism. In ME2, being pure neutral is just almost as bland as paragon. And I find its funny that both paragon and renegade can be very pro-Cerberus. Their writing is all over the place.

[SlottsMachine]

@OP

 

Haha. Reminds me of the Millionaire game I had as a kid, Regis would flat out call you a moron for repeated failure in answering the fastest finger question. Good times, that game taught that I'm not Mensa material. LOL. 

[txgoldrush]

...for you.

 

Personally, I didn't like the constraint of diversity that was introduced in ME3 at all. I didn't mind the fact that you could play a bipolar Shepard before. After all, you didn't have to. No one forced you to take every single interrupt.

 

Granted, on a first playthrough, it can occasionally be difficult to anticipate what your choices really mean but especially for people like us who do multiple playthroughs and develop an idea for how the system works, ME1/2 gave you a much wider variety for developing interesting paragade and renegon characters. I preferred that.

The constraint of diversity allows the character to be more consistent and less bipolar. It WAS ME1 and ME2 Shepard that was bipolar, NOT ME3's. Shepard would be so out of character for many of the Renegade moments in the first two games. There was no way he would even be an officer for the alliance if he acted like he does in the first two games.

 

Renegade was moronic at many points....being mean to your teammates, sadistic actions with no moral defense, and being a racist character and then not being one. Its jarring. ME2 especially was a mess.

 

Imagine Geralt of Rivia being allowed to kill civilians that didn't attack him or wrong him. CDP doesn't really allow him to. Why? Because it goes against his character. Imagine of Max from Life is Strange was allowed to bully Kate....the options would be more diverse, but the characterization takes a large hit. The problem with Deus Ex HR is that Jansen is allowed to do things against his character. Same with Marston in Red Dead Redemption. Its jarring and its flawed game design.

 

Like it or not, ME1 and ME2's dialogue is very flawed, ME3 fixed this by making the characters personality 95% of the time consistent.

[Ahglock]

Like it or not, ME1 and ME2's dialogue is very flawed, ME3 fixed this by making the characters personality 95% of the time consistent.

Minds well make it all auto dialogue then, I mean whats another 5%. 

[Oni Changas]

Why do many people here want to make the game worse?

 

Renegade in ME2 was TERRIBLE. Shepard acts so out of character and goes out of his way to do these actions. It was the "rule of cool" instead of character consistency.

 

In fact ME3 did it far better than the first two games in that Renegade was practical but at times heartbreaking, and for the most part, made realistic and consistent to a paragon who may want to choose some Renegade options. And who needs the neutral option when the dialogue itself for the two choices are dialed down towards neutral. ME3 Shepard is FAR from bipolar.

 

What happens when a Paragon wants to make a Renegade decision in ME2, he leaves character.

 

Seriously, ME3 Shepard is better...he has more of a consistent character than the first two games, which was stuck in uncanny valley. ME3 Shepard is more like your Adam Jansens, your Geralts, your Max Caulfields....and its those kinds of characters that a dialogue wheel is needed. ME2's Shepard is not quite Fallout 4 bad, but its bad.

Sometimes I wish BSN had a dislike button.

 

ME2 was the best Renegade for me. You could stay consistently pissed off while still chumming it up with your squad at times (bro-hugging Jacob, chuckling at Garrus' story) yet it had some of the coolest interrupts like the intro to Miranda's loyalty mission; snapping an Eclipse officer's neck in front of his underlings after he tries to threaten you. You also have the many ways you can make Elias Kelham talk. THAT's the very definition of intimidate. ME3 Renegade has Shep being Mr. Nice Guy to the council, kissing Liara's ass, and executing close friends/allies. Most of that is due to lack of player choice in dialogue in ME3 admittedly but still ME3's interrupts were very underwhelming compared to ME2. 

 

ME1 Renegade: Hardass

ME2 Renegade: Badass

ME3 Renegade: Ass

[straykat]

I don't mind more consistency in the writing, but I don't care about playing some military simulator. I'd prefer being Dirty Harry or playing Die Hard in space. Something to that effect. Typical action stuff. I don't need to act like I'm following some protocol (as if a Spectre ever would anyways). The same people who complain about that probably complain about the armor styles too.. or how Shep shouldn't romance any of the crew. It's just autistic nagging. Nothing more.

[Oni Changas]

Gerrel "renegade" interrupt is so lame. What kind of wuss gets mad at a brilliantly executed strategy that successfully destroys the enemy toasters with zero friendly casualties? Not renegade at all.

I should have been given an interrupt to shake that man's hand or give him a hearty brofist for his maverick boldness. Or given Raan a slap upside the bucket for being such a nagging nancy about it, either way.

I'm gonna also add the Shep and Co. couldn't respond when Gerrell decided to plant his foot up the geth fleet's ass for the umpteenth time. I bet he, Hackett, Victus, Javik, and Wrex all down 6 bottles of ryncol each day while out-armwrestling guys half their ages and chomping cigars laced with napalm. Such manly badassery.

[MrFob]

*snip*

 

Like it or not, ME1 and ME2's dialogue is very flawed, ME3 fixed this by making the characters personality 95% of the time consistent.

 

Oh don't we all just love people who, in a discussion about preferences, assume a tone of possessing the absolute and unassailable truth? I may just have to bow my head to your wisdom and wealth of undeniable facts.

[txgoldrush]

Sometimes I wish BSN had a dislike button.

 

ME2 was the best Renegade for me. You could stay consistently pissed off while still chumming it up with your squad at times (bro-hugging Jacob, chuckling at Garrus' story) yet it had some of the coolest interrupts like the intro to Miranda's loyalty mission; snapping an Eclipse officer's neck in front of his underlings after he tries to threaten you. You also have the many ways you can make Elias Kelham talk. THAT's the very definition of intimidate. ME3 Renegade has Shep being Mr. Nice Guy to the council, kissing Liara's ass, and executing close friends/allies. Most of that is due to lack of player choice in dialogue in ME3 admittedly but still ME3's interrupts were very underwhelming compared to ME2. 

 

ME1 Renegade: Hardass

ME2 Renegade: Badass

ME3 Renegade: Ass

You aren't getting it.

 

Renegade was about position and approach, not about tone. That is what the first two games GOT WRONG. The flaw is that they attached a tone to the decision, instead of just being about the decision. The paragon is the idealist, the renegade is more practical. Its the same crap they get wrong in Jade Empire, by attaching tone instead of just being about the philosophy, not only do they skew what they are trying for the philosophy to be, they cause the character to wildly vary in tone if the player wants to go both ways. Nevermind in the first two games, you got points for both philosophies when you do nothing in relation to them.

 

Here is why ME3's character works....almost all Renegade choices and options can fit the Paragon character and vise versa. He can flip between the two without causing the characterization to go wild. Therefore the neutral option was not necessary in ME3.

 

And if Renegade Shepard does shoot Mordin, it haunts him. When he shoots Falere, its like he had to do it. Its character consistency. because a Paragon could do it, especially the former, given the circumstances (if Wreav not Wrex was in charge for instance).

[Dantriges]

Who cares about Renegade or Paragon, I want this quiz show interrogation style implemented

[The Hierophant]

This is all i can think about. 

 

[BraveVesperia]

Gerrel "renegade" interrupt is so lame. What kind of wuss gets mad at a brilliantly executed strategy that successfully destroys the enemy toasters with zero friendly casualties? Not renegade at all.

I should have been given an interrupt to shake that man's hand or give him a hearty brofist for his maverick boldness. Or given Raan a slap upside the bucket for being such a nagging nancy about it, either way.

Tbh, I agree. Since renegade is supposed to be more pragmatic/ruthless/whatever, they're the last person who should be going off at Han Garrel for using similar tactics. It just makes renegade Shep look like a hypocritical jerk, who'll risk other people's lives for the mission, but can't handle the same thing happening to them. It would make more sense if renegade supported it, but paragon disapproved (not 'punch him in the face' disapproval though), because of their sense of fairness/idealism/whatever. 

 

I think this is my issue with the whole paragon/renegade thing. What each one stands for isn't clear or consistent.