126 réponses à ce sujet

[tomkaa988]

 

ME1 Renegade: Hardass

ME2 Renegade: Badass

ME3 Renegade: Ass

This!

so this.

 

need more badass :'(

[Patchwork]

I miss the 'practical but kinda cheating' actions ME2 Renegade had like blowing up the fuel tank or shooting the crane to kill off some of the enemy's men.

 

I don't want a morality system in MEA but I think the interrupts should come back.

[Statichands]

 

Yes, bring back Sith Lord Shep.Once more the sith will rule the galaxy

[Ahriman]

The problem with Renegade is that all people imagine it differently, writers included. Personally I don't know the right answer here. Set some person as Renegade prototype aka "what would X do here?"? Get rid of iconic dichotomy completely? But points and their relation to persuasion should be gone either way.

Who cares about Renegade or Paragon, I want this quiz show interrogation style implemented

What's the reward for right answer?

[themikefest]

I thought ME3 had some great renegade interrupts as well. Punching Gerral and killing Udina come to my mind.

While punching Gerrell isn't bad, I would've shot the guy in the foot or even better, pull off his mask.

With Udina, I would've preferred shooting him in the arm or shoulder, so I can question him
 

I really don't see much difference between ME1, ME2 and ME3 when it comes to renegade options. Some renegade choices feel pragmatic while others were just evil or make Shepard sound like a racist *** (like killing the council and the settlers on Feros, choosing Morinth, shooting Falere).

Nothing evil about doing those things. I've never saved the council. I've killed all the colonist a couple of times. I only chose Morinth once to see and hear the difference in ME2. I've shot Falere a couple of times.

[Oni Changas]

You aren't getting it.

 

Renegade was about position and approach, not about tone. That is what the first two games GOT WRONG. The flaw is that they attached a tone to the decision, instead of just being about the decision. The paragon is the idealist, the renegade is more practical. Its the same crap they get wrong in Jade Empire, by attaching tone instead of just being about the philosophy, not only do they skew what they are trying for the philosophy to be, they cause the character to wildly vary in tone if the player wants to go both ways. Nevermind in the first two games, you got points for both philosophies when you do nothing in relation to them.

 

Here is why ME3's character works....almost all Renegade choices and options can fit the Paragon character and vise versa. He can flip between the two without causing the characterization to go wild. Therefore the neutral option was not necessary in ME3.

 

And if Renegade Shepard does shoot Mordin, it haunts him. When he shoots Falere, its like he had to do it. Its character consistency. because a Paragon could do it, especially the former, given the circumstances (if Wreav not Wrex was in charge for instance).

[Master Warder Z_]

 

Yes, bring back Sith Lord Shep.Once more the sith will rule the galaxy

 

...Least they aren't hypocrites.

[Xen]

Tbh, I agree. Since renegade is supposed to be more pragmatic/ruthless/whatever, they're the last person who should be going off at Han Garrel for using similar tactics. It just makes renegade Shep look like a hypocritical jerk, who'll risk other people's lives for the mission, but can't handle the same thing happening to them. It would make more sense if renegade supported it, but paragon disapproved (not 'punch him in the face' disapproval though), because of their sense of fairness/idealism/whatever. 

 

I think this is my issue with the whole paragon/renegade thing. What each one stands for isn't clear or consistent.

Indeed, Ruthless Shep especially has no excuse to be mad at Gerrel for getting the job done with a little bit of danger close (which doesn't even get anyone injured let alone killed) when they threw their entire squad/platoon/ whatever into a meatgrinder at Torfan for the lulz.

The best part is that when you go up and talk to Joker after the mission, the Renegade option then defends and supports Gerrel. It's like Shep has schizophrenia.

[Master Warder Z_]

Indeed, Ruthless Shep especially has no excuse to be mad at Gerrel for getting the job done with a little bit of danger close (which doesn't even get anyone injured let alone killed) when they threw their entire squad/platoon/ whatever into a meatgrinder at Torfan for the lulz.

The best part is that when you go up and talk to Joker after the mission, the Renegade option then defends and supports Gerrel. It's like Shep has schizophrenia.

 

Personally I think its more the fault of bad writing that works horribly with the preset scenario more then the actual fault of the renegade system, for example who is to say that the Renegade does not value their own life over that of other people? You can cite it as selfish and it may very well be, but it can also be pragmatism. If you die then not only is humanity losing one of its best soldiers, but also a leading expert on the giant cuddelfish robots that are invading the galaxy.

 

So personally I think anger could be justified in this situation if it wasn't so misplaced in the sense that it's applied but that's renegade in general, a lot of decisions that would make sense in proper context come off as just plain being a jack ass.

[Broganisity]

You talk too much.

[Livi14]

Tbh, I agree. Since renegade is supposed to be more pragmatic/ruthless/whatever, they're the last person who should be going off at Han Garrel for using similar tactics. It just makes renegade Shep look like a hypocritical jerk, who'll risk other people's lives for the mission, but can't handle the same thing happening to them. It would make more sense if renegade supported it, but paragon disapproved (not 'punch him in the face' disapproval though), because of their sense of fairness/idealism/whatever. 
 
I think this is my issue with the whole paragon/renegade thing. What each one stands for isn't clear or consistent.

Shepard is leading the fight against the Reapers for the WHOLE Galaxy, is the only person with the cipher (at least if you killed Shiala in ME1) - and this guy sends you to do his dirty work on the Dread (after starting a stupid war at the worst possible time) and doesn't even think twice before almost danger-closing Shep to death. He is willing to doom the entire galaxy by risking the one person who is doing all the manual labor to get everybody to get along for a chance at destroying the Geth. I wish they'd have given me the option to shoot him.

But I agree that paragon/renegade isn't always consistent.

[SlottsMachine]

Gunning down Han Gerrel would've been great. Sure there would be some terrible repercussions for doing so, but that's what failthroughs are for. Like how you haven't properly experienced the suicide mission until you get most everyone killed, actually feels like a suicide mission. 

[KaiserShep]

Indeed, Ruthless Shep especially has no excuse to be mad at Gerrel for getting the job done with a little bit of danger close (which doesn't even get anyone injured let alone killed) when they threw their entire squad/platoon/ whatever into a meatgrinder at Torfan for the lulz.

The best part is that when you go up and talk to Joker after the mission, the Renegade option then defends and supports Gerrel. It's like Shep has schizophrenia.

 

I like to use the renegade dialogue in the war room and skip the interrupt, and then use the renegade dialogue with Joker. The way I see it, Shepard can spare the underlings the griping and put on the diplomatic act. Perhaps I'm alone here, but my interpretation of the dialogue to Joker that seems to support Gerrel has a hint of sarcasm. I think that's my favorite way to read it. 

[Xen]

Shepard is leading the fight against the Reapers for the WHOLE Galaxy, is the only person with the cipher (at least if you killed Shiala in ME1) - and this guy sends you to do his dirty work on the Dread (after starting a stupid war at the worst possible time) and doesn't even think twice before almost danger-closing Shep to death. He is willing to doom the entire galaxy by risking the one person who is doing all the manual labor to get everybody to get along for a chance at destroying the Geth. I wish they'd have given me the option to shoot him.
 

If Shep's so important than why are Hackett, TIM and the Council constantly sending you on highly dangerous missions where you will likely be killed at all? Seems like if Prince/ss Space Jesus is the key to everything they should just hide her/him in a fortress somewhere and send a million unimportant mooks to do their job (as they do if you skip Arrival, for instance). All Gerrel knows is that Shepard volunteered for the mission without even being asked, with him even commenting that "it's a hell of a risk, Commander." I fail to see why he should change his highly successful tactics simply for the sake of someone's wittle feelings about having to pick up their purse and get a move on to leave the target area instead of dithering about shooting the breeze with the robot.

Your opinion on the (entirely necessary, if you expect quarian assistance against the Reapers) war against the geth is irrelevant, but at least illuminating. I'll restate that no one even got injured by the action in question, meaning it is less dangerous than the stupid things even your squadmates do (Like Wrex trying to rip your guts out on two seperate occasions for the pettiest of reasons, or Liara covering your six at the temple by incompetently standing about, then taking a flight on Kai Leng airlines, which actually does lead to Shep's near death). In terms of results, Joker staying in the cockpit of the destroyed Normandy like a re-re and literally getting Shepard killed at the beginning of ME2 was far more egriegious, yet I hardly ever see anyone whine about that, probably because Joker isn't trying to blow up the precious little Reaper allied toaster woobies that are killing millions of innocent people as the mission is taking place, so let's be entirely honest here.

Gerrel's right, only a horrible excuse of a soldier run by their petty emotions would get butthurt about a bit of danger close from allied forces that doesn't even hurt anyone except the enemy and throw a grossly unprofessional temper tantrum (that would get any real officer "retired") about it. It's perfectly in character for the whiny wussbag paragon, but not for the renegade, especially considering that the renegade tells the quarians before the mission to counterattack immediately after the Reaper signal is disabled, which is exactly what he does.

I like to use the renegade dialogue in the war room and skip the interrupt, and then use the renegade dialogue with Joker. The way I see it, Shepard can spare the underlings the griping and put on the diplomatic act. Perhaps I'm alone here, but my interpretation of the dialogue to Joker that seems to support Gerrel has a hint of sarcasm. I think that's my favorite way to read it. 

I go Renegade in the war room and then congratulate Gerrel with the Paragon option before agreeing with Xen's plan to study the acquired platform, because that's the only way to remain in character. I read no sarcasm into the dialouge with Joker, as it perfectly matches the mindset of the typical Renegade of putting the mission first.

[Barquiel]

Gunning down Han Gerrel would've been great. Sure there would be some terrible repercussions for doing so, but that's what failthroughs are for. Like how you haven't properly experienced the suicide mission until you get most everyone killed, actually feels like a suicide mission.

In the original script, Tali actually offers to kill Gerrel when the war is over, arguing that her entire species shouldn't pay for one old man's stupidity. That would have made me like her a lot more

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Since we are discussing humor and Renegade: 

 

And just for balance:

[themikefest]

In the original script, Tali actually offers to kill Gerrel when the war is over, arguing that her entire species shouldn't pay for one old man's stupidity. That would have made me like her a lot more

Really? If she offers to do that, why couldn't she make an effort to stop the geth from uploading the code that dooms her species?

[omgodzilla]

Sometimes I wish BSN had a dislike button.

 

ME2 was the best Renegade for me. You could stay consistently pissed off while still chumming it up with your squad at times (bro-hugging Jacob, chuckling at Garrus' story) yet it had some of the coolest interrupts like the intro to Miranda's loyalty mission; snapping an Eclipse officer's neck in front of his underlings after he tries to threaten you. You also have the many ways you can make Elias Kelham talk. THAT's the very definition of intimidate. ME3 Renegade has Shep being Mr. Nice Guy to the council, kissing Liara's ass, and executing close friends/allies. Most of that is due to lack of player choice in dialogue in ME3 admittedly but still ME3's interrupts were very underwhelming compared to ME2. 

 

ME1 Renegade: Hardass

ME2 Renegade: Badass

ME3 Renegade: Ass

 

I never understood this. I always felt that the ME1 and ME2 renegades were much bigger assholes than the ME3 one. At least all of the renegade options in ME3 could be defended with valid arguments. Shooting Mordin was done to secure Salarian cooperation, while preventing a possible Krogan uprising in the future. Killing Falere was done because she was an Ardat Yakshi. Hell, the Asari military WANTED to wipe out all the Ardat Yakshi so that the Reapers don't get their hands on them. Killing Ashley/Kaidan was hardly an execution. They were armed and pointing their friggin weapon at you! Killing Wrex was just self-defense. There's absolutely no valid reason to criticize renegade shepard for defending himself against an angry Krogan trying to kill him. What else is there? People like to include the quarian genocide as a renegade option but that's just bullshit. You don't get any renegade points from choosing either the Geth or the Quarians. If you can't do the renegade or paragon persuasion, then you HAVE to pick one of them. 

 

Hell, the only option in ME3 that isn't defendable is the one that alot of people like to pick (even paragons). I'm of course speaking about punching the reporter. I mean seriously, what justification is there for a special forces badass to assault a civilian reporter just because she asked annoying questions? 

 

That's not to say that I didn't enjoy renegade in ME2. In fact, I feel that ME2 by far had the most entertaining and diverse morality system in the trilogy. And it did a much better job with interrupts (especially renegade ones). But overall, I feel that ME3's renegade was a bit more realistic and consistent. He actually felt like a real person, rather than an action hero from the 80s. Just look at the way Shepard reacts after he shoots Mordin. His face is full of guilt. He throws away his gun and walks away. Later in the game, you have a conversation with Garrus about how fucked up this war is. Shepard didn't want to shoot Mordin but he felt that he had to in order to win the war. Renegade Shepard never showed that much depth and  complexity in the first two games. My only problem with ME3's renegade is the fact that there are so few renegade options at all (especially interrupts) compared to ME2. 

[Oni Changas]

Hey omgodzilla. This bud's for you

 

[omgodzilla]

 

Hey omgodzilla. This bud's for you

 

 

 

Yes, congratulations, you're capable of posting memes. Now how about you do the same with your counter-arguments? 

[KaiserShep]

 

Hey omgodzilla. This bud's for you

 

Thing is, omgodzilla's right. Some folks around here like to criticize ME3's Renegade over the others, but a proper full-fledged Renegade in the previous two games is pretty much a malicious jerk for no good reason a lot of the time. Not that there's anything wrong with being allowed to play a malicious jerk, but that's pretty much how it is. Take Mouse. You have this nobody schlub who is certain that telling anyone anything will get him killed, so Shepard's renegade response is to go all LAPD and stomp on him, which is kind of funny in that Thane is standing there and could have intervened to convince him without the need for violence, yet doesn't object (as ME companions seldom do). 

 

I go Renegade in the war room and then congratulate Gerrel with the Paragon option before agreeing with Xen's plan to study the acquired platform, because that's the only way to remain in character. I read no sarcasm into the dialouge with Joker, as it perfectly matches the mindset of the typical Renegade of putting the mission first.

 

To be more precise, it's the only way to remain in-character for the character you imagine your Shepard to be. Since my Shepard told the quarians to retreat at the first opportunity, criticizing Gerrel a bit would be consistent. As for agreeing with Xen's plan to study Legion, I would never permit her to study Legion, but a big part of why I would never agree with her no matter what Shepard I used is because Legion is right there. At least the Dalatrass had the wherewithal to give Shepard the plan to betray the krogan in secret, with which a spy/traitor had to provide the weak link. But Xen just says it right there, as if Legion/Geth VI couldn't just decide "Study me? Well good luck winning this war, meatsack. Time to sabotage your happy asses." I like how Legion had more sense to know when to keep things to itself to accomplish its goals, like when it withheld its plan to free geth from the consensus rather than simply terminate them all. 

[Oni Changas]

Yes, congratulations, you're capable of posting memes. Now how about you do the same with your counter-arguments? 

You have no argument for me to take seriously, so here, have another gander at this.

 

[Daemul]

ME2 Renegade was stupid, thank god Bioware got rid of that moron and got better writers in who actually KNEW how to portray renegade properly. If Bioware decides to keep the P/R system for ME:A (I don't think they will, but assuming they do), I have high hopes for renegade in ME:A, playing renegade in ME3 was my most enjoyable/heartbreaking/gutwrenching experience ever in the series. It was so damn good. 

[Zazzerka]

In the original script, Tali actually offers to kill Gerrel when the war is over, arguing that her entire species shouldn't pay for one old man's stupidity. That would have made me like her a lot more

 

I really, really want to know how her dialogue for that sounded in their heads.

 

"Just so you know, Shepart, I'm weeling to shank a a beetch once this is over weeth."

[omgodzilla]

You have no argument for me to take seriously, so here, have another gander at this.

 

I honestly can't tell if you're just trolling at this point.