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[Dai Grepher]

The letter was because she failed, the Qun would never say "yeah we tried to kill you and every head of state of Thedas. No hard feelings".
It was damage control, before every nation of Thedas united against the Qun before they invaded gain.

 

Well the letter was for Josephine, so it isn't like they meant for Viddasala to read it. They didn't send it to her. They sent it to Josephine and Viddasala intercepted it so she could read it herself. There would have been nothing in it about her failing or how she should respond at that time. So if this was damage control, then why didn't Viddasala send this letter to Josephine as the Triumvirate intended?

 

And if this was nothing but subterfuge, why was Viddasala angry about it? Shouldn't she have just recognized this as the Triumvirate trying to deceive the Inquisition long enough for Dragon's Breath to conclude? And wouldn't she have sent the letter to Josephine so that the Triumvirate's deception could take affect?

 

By preventing the Triumvirate's letter from reaching Josephine, it means her request for clarification goes unanswered. Thus the Inquisition would consider it an act of war, as would the rest of Thedas. This is exactly what the Triumvirate doesn't want to happen, but it is what Viddasala wanted. So she outright defied the Triumvirate's will and actively tried to start a war between Thedas and Par Vollen.
 

If the Triumvirate approved of Dragon's Breath, then you are correct that they would not admit to it. They would lie and say they had no knowledge of it. But just because they would lie IF Dragon's Breath was sanctioned does not mean Dragon's Breath was sanctioned. If Dragon's Breath was not sanctioned, then the Triumvirate would also claim that they had no knowledge of it, and they would be telling the truth in this case.

 

So them saying they had no knowledge is not proof of anything. Viddasala's actions and reaction to the Triumvirate's reply is proof that she was Tal-Vashoth. She was intercepting Hissrad's requests for clarification. Josephine's letter confirms this. Knowing that Hissrad's attempts were being blocked, Josephine sent her own letter via her own trusted couriers, and they got through to the Triumvirate, which truly had no knowledge of Viddasala's actions because she was blocking Hissrad's reports and giving false reports of her own. The Triumvirate then sent a response, which Viddasala's agents saw coming from Par Vollen and going to the Inquisition. Her agents intercepted that, delivered it to her, she read it, realized that the jig was up, and then got real desperate. She crumpled the letter up in anger and hoped the Inquisition would assume the Triumvirate failed to reply to their letter, thus causing war. She called on Iron Bull to turn on the Inquisitor (even if he was declared Tal-Vashoth) when she made no such attempt prior to this.

[The Baconer]

Well the letter was for Josephine, so it isn't like they meant for Viddasala to read it. They didn't send it to her. They sent it to Josephine and Viddasala intercepted it so she could read it herself. There would have been nothing in it about her failing or how she should respond at that time. So if this was damage control, then why didn't Viddasala send this letter to Josephine as the Triumvirate intended?

 

And if this was nothing but subterfuge, why was Viddasala angry about it? Shouldn't she have just recognized this as the Triumvirate trying to deceive the Inquisition long enough for Dragon's Breath to conclude? And wouldn't she have sent the letter to Josephine so that the Triumvirate's deception could take affect?

 

By preventing the Triumvirate's letter from reaching Josephine, it means her request for clarification goes unanswered. Thus the Inquisition would consider it an act of war, as would the rest of Thedas. This is exactly what the Triumvirate doesn't want to happen, but it is what Viddasala wanted. So she outright defied the Triumvirate's will and actively tried to start a war between Thedas and Par Vollen.
 

If the Triumvirate approved of Dragon's Breath, then you are correct that they would not admit to it. They would lie and say they had no knowledge of it. But just because they would lie IF Dragon's Breath was sanctioned does not mean Dragon's Breath was sanctioned. If Dragon's Breath was not sanctioned, then the Triumvirate would also claim that they had no knowledge of it, and they would be telling the truth in this case.

 

So them saying they had no knowledge is not proof of anything. Viddasala's actions and reaction to the Triumvirate's reply is proof that she was Tal-Vashoth. She was intercepting Hissrad's requests for clarification. Josephine's letter confirms this. Knowing that Hissrad's attempts were being blocked, Josephine sent her own letter via her own trusted couriers, and they got through to the Triumvirate, which truly had no knowledge of Viddasala's actions because she was blocking Hissrad's reports and giving false reports of her own. The Triumvirate then sent a response, which Viddasala's agents saw coming from Par Vollen and going to the Inquisition. Her agents intercepted that, delivered it to her, she read it, realized that the jig was up, and then got real desperate. She crumpled the letter up in anger and hoped the Inquisition would assume the Triumvirate failed to reply to their letter, thus causing war. She called on Iron Bull to turn on the Inquisitor (even if he was declared Tal-Vashoth) when she made no such attempt prior to this.

 

She was Tal-Vashoth... the moment Josephine sent her inquiry. Once the covert op fails, the Viddasala is just a liability to be cut loose. 

[Mistic]

If the Triumvirate approved of Dragon's Breath, then you are correct that they would not admit to it. They would lie and say they had no knowledge of it. But just because they would lie IF Dragon's Breath was sanctioned does not mean Dragon's Breath was sanctioned. If Dragon's Breath was not sanctioned, then the Triumvirate would also claim that they had no knowledge of it, and they would be telling the truth in this case.

 

True enough, there's no way to prove or disprove it without asking the members of the Triumvirate. Also, it could be that the members of the Triumvirate are not as united as it may seem at first glance, and that the Qunari have infighting factions the same as any other country in the game. Maybe that could play a part in Dragon Age 4. For example, making an alliance with a Qunari moderate faction. Awakening already offered the chance to side with a darkspawn faction, there's nothing impossible after that.

[Boost32]

Well the letter was for Josephine, so it isn't like they meant for Viddasala to read it. They didn't send it to her. They sent it to Josephine and Viddasala intercepted it so she could read it herself. There would have been nothing in it about her failing or how she should respond at that time. So if this was damage control, then why didn't Viddasala send this letter to Josephine as the Triumvirate intended?
 
And if this was nothing but subterfuge, why was Viddasala angry about it? Shouldn't she have just recognized this as the Triumvirate trying to deceive the Inquisition long enough for Dragon's Breath to conclude? And wouldn't she have sent the letter to Josephine so that the Triumvirate's deception could take affect?
 
By preventing the Triumvirate's letter from reaching Josephine, it means her request for clarification goes unanswered. Thus the Inquisition would consider it an act of war, as would the rest of Thedas. This is exactly what the Triumvirate doesn't want to happen, but it is what Viddasala wanted. So she outright defied the Triumvirate's will and actively tried to start a war between Thedas and Par Vollen.
 
If the Triumvirate approved of Dragon's Breath, then you are correct that they would not admit to it. They would lie and say they had no knowledge of it. But just because they would lie IF Dragon's Breath was sanctioned does not mean Dragon's Breath was sanctioned. If Dragon's Breath was not sanctioned, then the Triumvirate would also claim that they had no knowledge of it, and they would be telling the truth in this case.
 
So them saying they had no knowledge is not proof of anything. Viddasala's actions and reaction to the Triumvirate's reply is proof that she was Tal-Vashoth. She was intercepting Hissrad's requests for clarification. Josephine's letter confirms this. Knowing that Hissrad's attempts were being blocked, Josephine sent her own letter via her own trusted couriers, and they got through to the Triumvirate, which truly had no knowledge of Viddasala's actions because she was blocking Hissrad's reports and giving false reports of her own. The Triumvirate then sent a response, which Viddasala's agents saw coming from Par Vollen and going to the Inquisition. Her agents intercepted that, delivered it to her, she read it, realized that the jig was up, and then got real desperate. She crumpled the letter up in anger and hoped the Inquisition would assume the Triumvirate failed to reply to their letter, thus causing war. She called on Iron Bull to turn on the Inquisitor (even if he was declared Tal-Vashoth) when she made no such attempt prior to this.

Do you do remember she had the aid of the Antaan? She could only have it if the Arishok sent them with her. No way a Tal-Vashoth would have several Antaan soldiers.

[Dai Grepher]

She was Tal-Vashoth... the moment Josephine sent her inquiry. Once the covert op fails, the Viddasala is just a liability to be cut loose. 

 

If that is true, then Hissrad should have recognized this fact as well and sided with the winners.
 

[Dai Grepher]

True enough, there's no way to prove or disprove it without asking the members of the Triumvirate. Also, it could be that the members of the Triumvirate are not as united as it may seem at first glance, and that the Qunari have infighting factions the same as any other country in the game. Maybe that could play a part in Dragon Age 4. For example, making an alliance with a Qunari moderate faction. Awakening already offered the chance to side with a darkspawn faction, there's nothing impossible after that.

 

That is possible, and it would be interesting to see. The Ariqun may have known about Viddasala's actions and secretly authorized it unbeknownst to the Arishok and Arigena. Then the Ariqun could no longer hide it once Josephine's letter made it through. This may have even been the "debates" that were waged in Par Vollen.

 

However, the impression I get from the Qunari is that a top level official would not dare go behind the backs of the other two. I think they take their customs and their order very seriously. Even Viddasala probably thought she was doing what was best for the Qunari religion, but something the Ariqun would not authorize. So I think the debates were about the Ariqun failing to give proper oversight to her agents. But seeing the Qunari society collapse in on itself due to varying interpretations or philosophies would be interesting.

[Dai Grepher]

Do you do remember she had the aid of the Antaan? She could only have it if the Arishok sent them with her. No way a Tal-Vashoth would have several Antaan soldiers.

 

Her division typically does have aid from the Antaam. She had them at the Darvaraad for years. Yet one of the Antaam notes that the Ben-Hassrath were not properly documenting the locations of the artifacts they were finding.

 

Viddasala merely misused the Antaam soldiers she was given for purposes of protecting Qunari sites and agents in order to fight the Inquisition instead. She kept them in the dark about what was really happening. Remember, the Antaam she had were fighting against the elvhen spirits at first. They did not fight against the Inquisition until the Inquisitor showed up in the elvhen ruins.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Her division typically does have aid from the Antaam. She had them at the Darvaraad for years. Yet one of the Antaam notes that the Ben-Hassrath were not properly documenting the locations of the artifacts they were finding.

That wasn't the only case of doubt in Viddasala's actions either. There was the use of lyrium to power Saarebas, syet Saarebas are not supposed to be allowed near the substance. There was also concerns about how the Ataashi was being treated going against the demands of the Qun, since the Qun does not demand animal cruelty. 

[BSpud]

Huh?

ME2 had a great ending. It's ME3's that sucked.

Closely followed by DAI.

Disband or servitude. Give me a break.

Probably the same genius responsible for the ME3 fiasco.

And all this worrisome for MEA....

 

LOL. He meant ME2's critical failure/Reapers-take-over non-canon bad ending.

 

Also, Casey Hudson did not work on Awesomewonderfulradpasser.

[Dai Grepher]

That wasn't the only case of doubt in Viddasala's actions either. There was the use of lyrium to power Saarebas, syet Saarebas are not supposed to be allowed near the substance. There was also concerns about how the Ataashi was being treated going against the demands of the Qun, since the Qun does not demand animal cruelty. 

 

Right, and the Ben-Hassrath agents had to be convinced of that too, as a note in the Vir Dirthara camp proves.

 

Also, I question the use of females as sword-wielding warriors in the various levels. Was this an oversight by BioWare, or was this another clue that Viddasala was acting outside the Qun to suit her own agenda?
 

[Spectr61]

LOL. He meant ME2's critical failure/Reapers-take-over non-canon bad ending.
 
Also, Casey Hudson did not work on Awesomewonderfulradpasser.

The point is a "good" ending is possible in ME2. If you want to go that way.

It is not possible in either ME3 or DAI.

[In Exile]

Also, I question the use of females as sword-wielding warriors in the various levels. Was this an oversight by BioWare, or was this another clue that Viddasala was acting outside the Qun to suit her own agenda?

 

This is Tallis all over again. The Ben-Hasthrath aren't warriors. 

[The Baconer]

If that is true, then Hissrad should have recognized this fact as well and sided with the winners.

 

The Qunari aren't known for practical logic. 

[Dai Grepher]

This is Tallis all over again. The Ben-Hasthrath aren't warriors. 

 

Of course not. Why would their women wish to be men? That can lead only to frustration.
 

[Dai Grepher]

The Qunari aren't known for practical logic. 

 

The Iron Bull is was though.

[The Baconer]

The Iron Bull is was though.

 

He was before his probable debriefing and reeducation, yes. Why do you think he made for a "bad" Qunari?

[Dai Grepher]

He was before his probable debriefing and reeducation, yes. Why do you think he made for a "bad" Qunari?

 

He made for a bad Qunari because he got sick of all the death.

 

But if he pulls off the mission and lets the Chargers die, then the Qunari have no need to reeducate him. He proves himself in that case.

 

If you don't do the mission, then maybe they might reeducate him, maybe they wouldn't. But regardless, his ability to see facts and predict behavior should not be lost because of lessons to stay loyal and obedient to the Qun. He knows how to exploit the loopholes, and how to bend the rules.
 

[The Baconer]

He made for a bad Qunari because he got sick of all the death.

 

But if he pulls off the mission and lets the Chargers die, then the Qunari have no need to reeducate him. He proves himself in that case.

 

He proves that he will defer to the authority of bas, even when the correct course of action should be clear and done without hesitation, according to the Qun. 

 

Honestly, there's not much that he actually proves in this instance. Does he follow orders? Sure... but from the wrong authority. It's simply good fortune for the Qunari if the Inquisitor just happens to follow through on the deal and order Iron Bull to sacrifice his men. Bull will even say he isn't a "friend of the alliance" in later companion dialogue, so there is quite a rationale for another bout of reeducation. 

[Dai Grepher]

I seriously doubt Gatt phrased it that way in his report. Besides, the Inquisitor only made a statement that they needed to hold that hill at all costs, and Iron Bull merely said he knew that. Ultimately, the decision to let the Chargers die only required Bull to do nothing. So it isn't like anyone could infer that Bull was taking an action in the affirmative to obey the Inquisitor. Making the choice to signal the retreat could be seen as following the Inquisitor, since the Inquisitor encourages it. But there is no way to tell if Iron Bull would have signaled the retreat by his own choice. And again, Gatt would have given Hissrad a favorable review, as he is the one who defended him to their superiors. And I also doubt Gatt saw it as hesitation. He probably saw it as Bull showing concern for his men, which Gatt understood.

 

He says he isn't a fan of the alliance because he fears that it might mean the Qunari will try something. It just makes him nervous. He knows the Qun must dominate the world, he simply didn't expect to see it done in his lifetime. And I doubt he made this sentiment known to the Qunari.

[The Baconer]

I seriously doubt Gatt phrased it that way in his report. 

 

I'll bet.

 

 

Besides, the Inquisitor only made a statement that they needed to hold that hill at all costs, and Iron Bull merely said he knew that. Ultimately, the decision to let the Chargers die only required Bull to do nothing. So it isn't like anyone could infer that Bull was taking an action in the affirmative to obey the Inquisitor. Making the choice to signal the retreat could be seen as following the Inquisitor, since the Inquisitor encourages it. But there is no way to tell if Iron Bull would have signaled the retreat by his own choice. And again, Gatt would have given Hissrad a favorable review, as he is the one who defended him to their superiors. And I also doubt Gatt saw it as hesitation. He probably saw it as Bull showing concern for his men, which Gatt understood.

 

Gatt didn't need to "see" it as anything, Bull literally debates the decision twice, and then turns directly to the Inquisitor for the final word. There is absolutely no logical or pragmatic reason to not have him return for reassessment, especially someone with a history like Bull. 

 

 

He says he isn't a fan of the alliance because he fears that it might mean the Qunari will try something.

 

Turns out he was right to be apprehensive. 

[9TailsFox]

I'll bet.

 

 

 

Gatt didn't need to "see" it as anything, Bull literally debates the decision twice, and then turns directly to the Inquisitor for the final word. There is absolutely no logical or pragmatic reason to not have him return for reassessment, especially someone with a history like Bull. 

 

 

 

Turns out he was right to be apprehensive. 

And Gatt could just report "Mission failed" without even mentioning Bull/Chargers incident.

 

If Mission was successes I doubt Gatt would even care to mention Bull hesitation. And if mission failed well we see what actually happened.

[SomberXIII]

Huh?

ME2 had a great ending. It's ME3's that sucked.

Closely followed by DAI.

Disband or servitude. Give me a break.

Probably the same genius responsible for the ME3 fiasco.

And all this worrisome for MEA....

Personal insults must be a thing for you. 

[Dai Grepher]

I'll bet.

 

 

 

Gatt didn't need to "see" it as anything, Bull literally debates the decision twice, and then turns directly to the Inquisitor for the final word. There is absolutely no logical or pragmatic reason to not have him return for reassessment, especially someone with a history like Bull. 

 

 

 

Turns out he was right to be apprehensive. 

 

What, you think Gatt, being Hissrad's friend, would report that he hesitated when such a thing wasn't even all that discernible in the first place and wasn't important to the mission? You don't think Gatt would just see the results and report that Hissrad was a loyal Qunari just as he had been telling the Ben-Hassrath that whole time?

 

Okay, so assuming Bull hesitated twice and turned to the Inquisitor for the final word, who in the Ben-Hassrath saw him do this?

 

But he was wrong about who made the move. He thought the Triumvirate would use the alliance as a way to take over the south through war, when in fact it was only the Viddasala going rogue and using infiltration tactics.

[The Baconer]

What, you think Gatt, being Hissrad's friend, would report that he hesitated when such a thing wasn't even all that discernible in the first place and wasn't important to the mission? 

 

Don't do that. Just be honest, here. 

 

 

Okay, so assuming Bull hesitated twice and turned to the Inquisitor for the final word, who in the Ben-Hassrath saw him do this?

 

The one who was standing right there? 

 

 

You don't think Gatt would just see the results and report that Hissrad was a loyal Qunari just as he had been telling the Ben-Hassrath that whole time?

 

No, I think Gatt would, as both a comrade and a friend, want Bull to get help. 

[Dai Grepher]

Help for what? Fulfilling his duty to the Qun even at the cost of his mercenaries? Hissrad even says, "Doesn't matter. The Qun demanded it." That's all there was to it, and Gatt confirms that the Qunari were pleased.