161 réponses à ce sujet

[The Baconer]

Help for what? Fulfilling his duty to the Qun even at the cost of his mercenaries? Hissrad even says, "Doesn't matter. The Qun demanded it." That's all there was to it, and Gatt confirms that the Qunari were pleased.

 

Mental help. Help with not losing sight of the Qun, when Bull had previously struggled. Having Bull go back isn't bad or inconvenient (from the perspective of Gatt and other Qunari), it's beneficial. It might even just be routine, assuming he would go back for a debriefing regardless. 

[LordParbr]

No, accepting Orlais' offer could be another option. What's stopping that from happening, other than BioWare's laziness?

Aside from starting another war between Ferelden and Orlais, you mean?

And the Inquisition was the most powerful force in southern Thedas at the time. No way it can lose to a couple of broken and corruptible countries.

Did I say it would? I said the conflict would tear Ferelden and Orlais apart, while making the Inquisition useless while it's engaged in a 2-front war. Then it'll fall apart from corruption, sabotage, and Ferelden/Orlesian members not wanting to go to war with their own countries

[Dai Grepher]

Mental help. Help with not losing sight of the Qun, when Bull had previously struggled. Having Bull go back isn't bad or inconvenient (from the perspective of Gatt and other Qunari), it's beneficial. It might even just be routine, assuming he would go back for a debriefing regardless. 

 

But from Gatt's perspective Hissrad never lost sight of the Qun. So I doubt he would have said anything that would make the Qunari reeducate him.

 

He does go back for debriefing regardless. And assuming that he would be reeducated as a routine measure, that did not stop him from questioning the Qun before. It doesn't absolutely make him sacrifice the Chargers either. So why would it make him blindly side with Viddasala in contrast to the irrefutable proof that she was Tal-Vashoth? Any reeducation should have actually made him more of a hardliner against the rogue actions of Viddasala.

[Dai Grepher]

Aside from starting another war between Ferelden and Orlais, you mean?


Did I say it would? I said the conflict would tear Ferelden and Orlais apart, while making the Inquisition useless while it's engaged in a 2-front war. Then it'll fall apart from corruption, sabotage, and Ferelden/Orlesian members not wanting to go to war with their own countries

 

Yes. Aside from that, which didn't seem to discourage Orlais from suggesting the merger. So what if Ferelden wanted to war with the combined might of Orlais and the Inquisition? They can't even beat the Inquisition with Orlais' help.

 

But would Orlais and Ferelden launch such a war against an organization that took no aggression against them and had actually helped them for the prior two years? I doubt they would start the war in the first place, but even if they did the fully-powered Inquisition would crush both countries easily.

[Evan_the_mechanic]

How do I get trespasser? The only dlc I could get was jaws, no others

[giveamanafish...]

How do I get trespasser? The only dlc I could get was jaws, no others

If you are on an older generation console, the two newest dlcs aren't available. Don't shoot the messanger. There are threads about this in this forum.

 

Aside from starting another war between Ferelden and Orlais, you mean?


Did I say it would? I said the conflict would tear Ferelden and Orlais apart, while making the Inquisition useless while it's engaged in a 2-front war. Then it'll fall apart from corruption, sabotage, and Ferelden/Orlesian members not wanting to go to war with their own countries

A lot of people are forgetting that the Inquisition at this point had been infiltrated by Solas' spies and ?? stated her concern that the Inquisition had become too weakened by that to continue.

 

It's also hinted that the Inquisition, as a standing army, had overstayed its welcome in Ferelden. People need to remember the old saying, going back to Napoleon?, that an army marches on its stomach. You need a tax and land base to substain a standing army -- or your army degenerates into banditry. The tax and land base belonged to Ferelden. The Inquisition was getting financial support from Orlais, but was on Ferelden land and taxing Ferelden merchants, controlling roads and possibly obtaining tribute from Ferelden peasants. So something had to  give.

 

The idea that the old Inquisition became a corrupted force over time, for reasons, some like the above, was also stated early on in the vanilla game.

[The Baconer]

But from Gatt's perspective Hissrad never lost sight of the Qun. 

 

Based on...

 

 

He does go back for debriefing regardless. And assuming that he would be reeducated as a routine measure, that did not stop him from questioning the Qun before.

 

Yes, that much would be known by the re-educators, and they would change their methods to correct that. 

 

 

So why would it make him blindly side with Viddasala in contrast to the irrefutable proof that she was Tal-Vashoth? Any reeducation should have actually made him more of a hardliner against the rogue actions of Viddasala.

 

Indeed it would, but since I have no reason to believe she was a rogue agent, there's really no dilemma. 

[TK514]

The Inquisition was a paper tiger. Some, if not all, of its martial might was either borrowed from Orlais and Ferelden or had family in those nations. How many folks do you think would stick around to support an armed insurrection by an organization whose purpose was ended in the face of having to fight their friends and families?

Skyhold is absurdly vulnerable to seige, because you don't even have to beseige the castle itself, you just need to close the passes leading to it. It's a minimal cost solution to an organization that thinks far too highly of itself. The three other taken keeps would be considerably more difficult to take back, though hardly impossible.

Orzammar under Bhelen might momentarily consider aiding the Inquisition, then his brain would start working again and he'd remember that Orzammar is entirely dependent on trade with Orlais in order not to starve to death, as illustrated quite clearly by the dwarven delegation at the ball.

Any other potential allies would be too far away to help, assuming they cared or didn't have issues of their own to deal with. Nevarran tensions with Tevinter keep them from getting adventurous, Tevinter has to worry about the Qunari and each other, Starkhaven either isn't friendly with the Inquisition or is tied up helping restore Kirkwall, and so on and so forth.

Not even the Chantry, with all its political power, could do more than delay the inevitable. The intelligent members of the Inquisition know it, which is why they bothered to show up to the Council at all. The Inquisition was never in a position where they had a choice to ignore the dictates of Orlais and Ferelden. At their best, the worst they could have done was make it painful for those nations to enforce their will, which any true organiztion with the 'good of Thedas' in mind would have avoided at all cost.

[LordParbr]

If you are on an older generation console, the two newest dlcs aren't available. Don't shoot the messanger. There are threads about this in this forum.

A lot of people are forgetting that the Inquisition at this point had been infiltrated by Solas' spies and ?? stated her concern that the Inquisition had become too weakened by that to continue.

It's also hinted that the Inquisition, as a standing army, had overstayed its welcome in Ferelden. People need to remember the old saying, going back to Napoleon?, that an army marches on its stomach. You need a tax and land base to substain a standing army -- or your army degenerates into banditry. The tax and land base belonged to Ferelden. The Inquisition was getting financial support from Orlais, but was on Ferelden land and taxing Ferelden merchants, controlling roads and possibly obtaining tribute from Ferelden peasants. So something had to give.

The idea that the old Inquisition became a corrupted force over time, for reasons, some like the above, was also stated early on in the vanilla game.

Right, people never think this stuff through. It's never as simple as having the bigger stick

[Dai Grepher]

Based on...

 

 

 

Yes, that much would be known by the re-educators, and they would change their methods to correct that. 

 

 

 

Indeed it would, but since I have no reason to believe she was a rogue agent, there's really no dilemma. 

 

Gatt's own statement. "I defended you Hissrad. I told them you would never become Tal-Vashoth."

 

And how would they know that? Only the player heard Bull's comments about Qunari life and how most people in the south would fail at it.

 

That's fine for you bas, but true Qunari like Hissrad had every reason to believe it.

[Dai Grepher]

The Inquisition was a paper tiger. Some, if not all, of its martial might was either borrowed from Orlais and Ferelden or had family in those nations. How many folks do you think would stick around to support an armed insurrection by an organization whose purpose was ended in the face of having to fight their friends and families?

Skyhold is absurdly vulnerable to seige, because you don't even have to beseige the castle itself, you just need to close the passes leading to it. It's a minimal cost solution to an organization that thinks far too highly of itself. The three other taken keeps would be considerably more difficult to take back, though hardly impossible.

Orzammar under Bhelen might momentarily consider aiding the Inquisition, then his brain would start working again and he'd remember that Orzammar is entirely dependent on trade with Orlais in order not to starve to death, as illustrated quite clearly by the dwarven delegation at the ball.

Any other potential allies would be too far away to help, assuming they cared or didn't have issues of their own to deal with. Nevarran tensions with Tevinter keep them from getting adventurous, Tevinter has to worry about the Qunari and each other, Starkhaven either isn't friendly with the Inquisition or is tied up helping restore Kirkwall, and so on and so forth.

Not even the Chantry, with all its political power, could do more than delay the inevitable. The intelligent members of the Inquisition know it, which is why they bothered to show up to the Council at all. The Inquisition was never in a position where they had a choice to ignore the dictates of Orlais and Ferelden. At their best, the worst they could have done was make it painful for those nations to enforce their will, which any true organiztion with the 'good of Thedas' in mind would have avoided at all cost.

 

I think Orlais and Ferelden were the paper tigers. Vivienne as Divine even states this as fact. The only time the Inquisition needed those soldiers was when they took down Corypheus' forces in the Arbor Wilds, and even then the Inquisition did most of the legwork. As for the Inquisition soldiers being from Ferelden or Orlais, sure they were, but what does that matter if their countries attack the Inquisition? Remember, Ferelden wars with itself all the time. The banns start feuds over many frivolous things, even an apple tree one time. Orlais is ruled by rich, pompous elites who bring ruin to each other for fun. How many Inquisition soldiers would prefer that over the Inquisitor who saved the world from a vile evil and terrible cataclysm? And how many of these lords would turn down a deal from the Inquisition to betray their own ruler(s) in exchange for more land? Their friends are the other Inquisition soldiers, and their families would most likely either not fight the Inquisition, or probably join them.

 

There are too many passages to block, and the terrain favors the Inquisition. Ferelden would not consider it a minimal cost once their patrols start getting curb stomped by mages and soldiers working together.

 

And then Bhelen would remember that the Inquisition knows the truth about the titans, and he would seek out trade with the Free Marches instead. The Inquisition's good friend and Viscount Varric Tethras could help with that.

 

Frostback Basin, the Dales, Kirkwall, and possibly Ostwick if the Inquisitor is a Trevelyan. And Nevarra has only tensions with Tevinter. Tensions that the Inquisition constantly alleviates. The connection with Cassandra will keep Nevarra as a steadfast ally.

 

Delay the inevitable what? Talks? That's all they were. If Ferelden and Orlais went to war with the Inquisition, the Chanty's support would devastate both countries. The faithful would stage an uprising against their lords. Ultimately, Orlais and Ferelden had no power. They can't protest the Inquisition merging with the Chantry, which is clearly more of a threat to Orlais and Ferelden than the Inquisition remaining independent. Which means their dictates were backed by nothing but empty threats.

 

And let's not lose sight of the real truth here, the truth that BioWare was trying to keep us blind to with their false choice. The Inquisitor should have been able to convince both countries to allow the Inquisition to remain independent through the presentation of evidence, through diplomacy, and through common sense concessions. The only reason we couldn't is because BioWare is lazy and wants to funnel everyone into the same outcome.

[Dai Grepher]

Right, people never think this stuff through. It's never as simple as having the bigger stick

 

Of course not, which is why the Inquisition would use spies, secrets, and propaganda as well.
 

[The Baconer]

Gatt's own statement. "I defended you Hissrad. I told them you would never become Tal-Vashoth."

 

And? For the Qunari, reeducation is not a punishment. Reeducation is not a punishment. What Gatt is afraid of, and what his defense is relating to, is how they might choose to reassign him after his assessment.

 

 

And how would they know that? Only the player heard Bull's comments about Qunari life and how most people in the south would fail at it.

 

Bull was already on thin ice with his superiors for sharing intel with the Inquisition. His further behavior during the mission would make reeducation a necessity, assuming it wasn't already on the table. 

 

 

That's fine for you bas, but true Qunari like Hissrad had every reason to believe it.

 

Yes, the uninitiated (read:fellow bas) knows the "true" ways of Qunari. 

 

It makes for comedic reading, but it's not really adding anything to the argument itself. 

[Dai Grepher]

And? For the Qunari, reeducation is not a punishment. Reeducation is not a punishment. What Gatt is afraid of, and what his defense is relating to, is how they might choose to reassign him after his assessment.

 

Bull was already on thin ice with his superiors for sharing intel with the Inquisition. His further behavior during the mission would make reeducation a necessity, assuming it wasn't already on the table. 

 

Yes, the uninitiated (read:fellow bas) knows the "true" ways of Qunari. 

 

It makes for comedic reading, but it's not really adding anything to the argument itself. 

 

It's also unnecessary if the Qunari in question proves to be loyal and effective, which Hissrad did in that case. The only reason they ever reeducated him is because he requested it. I didn't hear Gatt mention anything about reassessment. If Hissrad had sounded the retreat he would be declaring himself Tal-Vashoth. There would be no reassessment.

 

But Gatt said he understood how it worked out in the field. He understood that transparency was needed in order for Hissrad to stay within the Inquisition. Gatt also understood that it was difficult to give up the Chargers for the sake of the mission. All that was important was that Hissrad followed the demands of the Qun. No reeducation was necessary.

 

Hissrad knew the true ways of the Qunari, as did the ex-templar in the mines, and both knew that Viddasala giving lyrium to saarebas was a violation of the Qun. Even the Viddasala's own forces were questioning her. And the final nail in the coffin was the letter from the Triumvirate claiming no knowledge of Viddasala's actions. Even if this had been a deception as your side claims, this should have at least been enough to make Hissrad doubt the Viddasala and have her return to Par Vollen for questioning. You had a letter from the Triumvirate clearly stating that the alliance with the Inquisition was valued. Viddasala was working against that alliance, and therefore required clarification from the Ariqun and Arishok to sort things out.

[The Baconer]

It's also unnecessary if the Qunari in question proves to be loyal and effective, which Hissrad did in that case. 

 

No. The mission's success is determined by the Inquisitor making a call that shouldn't be theirs to make. 

 

 

But Gatt said he understood how it worked out in the field. He understood that transparency was needed in order for Hissrad to stay within the Inquisition. Gatt also understood that it was difficult to give up the Chargers for the sake of the mission. All that was important was that Hissrad followed the demands of the Qun. No reeducation was necessary.

 

See above. Also note Bull's mental health after the incident. Performance is not the only issue that factors into reassessment. 

 

 

Hissrad knew the true ways of the Qunari, as did the ex-templar in the mines, and both knew that Viddasala giving lyrium to saarebas was a violation of the Qun. 

 

In violation of the Qun, or in violation of the Qunari's interpretation of it? Regarding the latter: The Qun's "demands" are whatever the Triumvirate needs them to be at X time. For the Ben-Hassrath in particular, nothing is off-limits. 

 

As for the former: There is literally no section of the Qun (of what's available to us) that states as much. So, the idea that the Viddasala's actions are a violation can only be derived from our past interactions with the Qunari themselves... and they've been nothing but the pinnacle of consistency.

 

 

Even the Viddasala's own forces were questioning her. And the final nail in the coffin was the letter from the Triumvirate claiming no knowledge of Viddasala's actions. Even if this had been a deception as your side claims, this should have at least been enough to make Hissrad doubt the Viddasala and have her return to Par Vollen for questioning. 

 

Why would he doubt the Viddasala when he's one of the people in on the deception?

[Dai Grepher]

No. The mission's success is determined by the Inquisitor making a call that shouldn't be theirs to make. 

 

See above. Also note Bull's mental health after the incident. Performance is not the only issue that factors into reassessment. 

 

In violation of the Qun, or in violation of the Qunari's interpretation of it? Regarding the latter: The Qun's "demands" are whatever the Triumvirate needs them to be at X time. For the Ben-Hassrath in particular, nothing is off-limits. 

 

As for the former: There is literally no section of the Qun (of what's available to us) that states as much. So, the idea that the Viddasala's actions are a violation can only be derived from our past interactions with the Qunari themselves... and they've been nothing but the pinnacle of consistency.

 

Why would he doubt the Viddasala when he's one of the people in on the deception?

 

That's your opinion, not Gatt's. From his perspective Hissrad chose to do the right thing. That he and the Inquisitor gave him sound advice first is irrelevant, as the choice was ultimately Hissrad's.

 

Hissrad's mental health was fine. He scatters their ashes and lets go. He says its time to be Qunari again. He can even yuk it up with the rest of them at Wicked Grace afterward. He's doin' great.

 

So a Qunari can violate the Qun whenever it is considered necessary by that same Qunari? Any evidence for this? Seems to me that all Qunari would strictly adhere to the Qun even to their own detriment, not break the Qun whenever it behooved it. Also, if nothing is off limits for the Ben-Hasrath, then why does Hissrad state that Viddasala would never let saarebas within a hundred feet of lyrium?

 

Her actions being a violation can be derived from what two Qun believers state, and the note confirming that the Qunari in the Vir Dirthara were doubting her as well. It can also be derived from her action of crumpling the letter from the Triumvirate to Josephine. It shows she was acting without authorization, and thus acting against her superior's wishes.

 

Hissrad was not in on any deception. If there had been a deception and he had been in on it, they would not have sent him back to the Inquisition where spirit Cole could possibly read his mind and expose the entire plot before it even started. Also, he would have attacked the Inquisitor in the Vir Dirthara along with the rest of the Qunari when Viddasala ordered them to kill the Inquisitor. He would not just keep slaughtering his own people when the Inquisitor was always the target. The Vir Dirthara is the last chance for the Qunari to kill the Inquisitor before he puts a stop to Dragon's Breath. Also, the Triumvirate's letter changes everything. Even if this had been the plot from the beginning, the letter cancels the mission. It's aborted, because the Inquisition found out about it. At that point it would be about disavowing Viddasala, cutting her loose, and trying to salvage the alliance with the Inquisition. Hissrad could have done that by calling Viddasala Tal-Vashoth and assuring the Inquisition that the Triumvirate had no involvement in Dragon's Breath.

 

Another thing. If Hissrad had been in on some plot with Viddasala, she would not have been so misinformed. She incorrectly believed that the Inquisitor was an agent of Fen'Harel. Hissrad could have confirmed that this was not the case at all. His report would also confirm that Solas left the Inquisition directly after Corypheus was defeated, and thus had no further involvement with it. So this proves she had no connection to Hissrad's information at all, thus the operation itself was all her doing.

[ModernAcademic]

*Watching the discussion from afar and judging you*

[The Baconer]

That's your opinion, not Gatt's. From his perspective Hissrad chose to do the right thing. That he and the Inquisitor gave him sound advice first is irrelevant, as the choice was ultimately Hissrad's.

 

Sound advice shouldn't have been needed, least of all the Inquisitor's. 

 

 

Hissrad's mental health was fine. 

 

Classic. 

 

 

So a Qunari can violate the Qun whenever it is considered necessary by that same Qunari? Any evidence for this? 

 

Absolutely. Women can't be warriors, but the women in the Ben-Hassrath who fight aren't "warriors", and the women who are warriors aren't women. A male Qunari who is a craftsman or even part of the priesthood (outside of Ben-Hassrath agents) isn't a male, even though he is. A Basalit-An who just happens to be a mage isn't actually a mage, but they are. And so on...

 

 

Her actions being a violation can be derived from what two Qun believers state, 

 

People undoubtedly lower on the pecking order than she is (and possibly viddathari? Come on, now). 

 

 

Hissrad was not in on any deception. If there had been a deception and he had been in on it, they would not have sent him back to the Inquisition where spirit Cole could possibly read his mind and expose the entire plot before it even started. 

 

By the same train of thought, Cole should have been able to expose the plot regardless of Iron Bull's presence. And Solas'. There were plenty of agents from both sides to reveal that. In any event, Cole states that he feels "nothing" from Bull when he is killed. 

 

 

Hissrad was not in on any deception. If there had been a deception and he had been in on it, they would not have sent him back to the Inquisition where spirit Cole could possibly read his mind and expose the entire plot before it even started. Also, he would have attacked the Inquisitor in the Vir Dirthara along with the rest of the Qunari when Viddasala ordered them to kill the Inquisitor. He would not just keep slaughtering his own people when the Inquisitor was always the target.

 

The Inquisitor wasn't always the target. If they didn't die in the bombings, the anchor was supposed to take care of them. Then Solas' sabotage threw everything into chaos. 

 

 

Even if this had been the plot from the beginning, the letter cancels the mission. It's aborted, because the Inquisition found out about it. At that point it would be about disavowing Viddasala, cutting her loose, and trying to salvage the alliance with the Inquisition. Hissrad could have done that by calling Viddasala Tal-Vashoth and assuring the Inquisition that the Triumvirate had no involvement in Dragon's Breath.

 

He could have, as well as everyone else following her orders. But they didn't. 

 

 

Another thing. If Hissrad had been in on some plot with Viddasala, she would not have been so misinformed. She incorrectly believed that the Inquisitor was an agent of Fen'Harel. Hissrad could have confirmed that this was not the case at all. His report would also confirm that Solas left the Inquisition directly after Corypheus was defeated, and thus had no further involvement with it. So this proves she had no connection to Hissrad's information at all, thus the operation itself was all her doing.

 

She might have been wrong about the Inquisitor literally being an agent of Fen'Harel, but since everything we accomplish in the DLC is done in accordance to his will, she wasn't effectively wrong. 

[ModernAcademic]

How do the Qunari know about Fen'Harel?

 

How do they know anything about the Elven Gods being real people and not just myth?

 

This whole plot about the Divasalla knowing that Solas is his agent makes no sense. This would imply she knows that Skyhold is an old, elven fortress, that Fen'Harel is actually real (an ancient myth actually being an existing person? I mean, come on!), that the Qunari have an in-depth understanding of elven lore.

 

And what about the extensive research on Eluvians? Where did that come from? How would the Qunari learn about their existence in the first place? How would they know of their purpose and their connecion to the Fade? And why would they be concerned with such magic?

 

The Qunari are supposedly worried about the Breach, not about what a secret group of elves are doing in Southern Thedas. What does the Breach have anything to do with Eluvians and an ancient darkspawn Magister tearing a hole in the skies? There's no connection.

 

Trespasser raised lots of questions that remain unanswered.

[The Baconer]

How do the Qunari know about Fen'Harel?

 

How do they know anything about the Elven Gods being real people and not just myth?

 

This whole plot about the Divasalla knowing that Solas is his agent makes no sense. This would imply she knows that Skyhold is an old, elven fortress, that Fen'Harel is actually real (an ancient myth actually being an existing person? I mean, come on!), that the Qunari have an in-depth understanding of elven lore.

 

And what about the extensive research on Eluvians? Where did that come from? How would the Qunari learn about their existence in the first place? How would they know of their purpose and their connecion to the Fade? And why would they be concerned with such magic?

 

When the Qunari decide to do something, they will do it better than anyone else... because reasons. 

[Absafraginlootly]

This post will contain major plot-heavy spoilers regarding the fate of the Inquisition. If you have not played the Trespasser DLC yet, please only continue to read at your own risk.

 

------------------------------------------

 

The major choice we get after the end of Trespasser is whether to keep the Inquisition around under a peacekeeping role under direct service to the Divine or to disband it entirely. 

 

I did not like being pigeonholed into these two choice as both, to me, are not desirable. The whole time during Trespasser when people would ask me what I would do with the Inquisition, I would say that the Inquisition was still needed whether the powers that be liked it or not. (Especially when talking to the ambassadors from Orlais and Fereldan I basically told them that the Inquisition was not going anywhere.)

 

My whole goal and my whole thought-process was to keep the Inquisition as an independent watch-dog organization protecting Thedas much like the Grey Wardens. This was the same feel that I got at the end of the vanilla game from the epilogue. Instead, we're given the choice to be a peacekeeping arm of the Chantry or disband entirely. That just leaves a poor taste in my mouth.

 

I did not want to answer to Vivienne (who became Divine in my playthrough) especially because I did not agree with her ways. All hopes of an independent organization continuing on ended at that final dialogue option. Bioware even gave us 6 options but it really only amounts to the decision to be controlled by the Chantry or to disband.

 

Who else is with me on this? Who all wanted the Inquisition to remain an independent watch-dog organization keeping everyone in check?

 

They gave us 2 options with 3 different ways to express each one for roleplaying purposes, which I think was made clear on the dialogue wheel?

 

Whilst I was plenty satisfied with the endings, and tend to think that if left at the height of its power and independent the Inquistion would inevitably end up at war with Orlais and/or Ferelden, I sympathise with you for not getting the ending you wanted.

 

If you disband the inquisition it doesn't actually fully disband, a small, independent and trusted group continues on, but seeing as they aren't large enough or powerful enough to serve as watchman to whole nations and work in secret that might not be any consolation. 

[MCG]

With these games, I don't ever go with what 'I' would do, I instead go with what I feel my character would do instead. As for the big choices at the end of the game, no way was Kadan (my Qunari Inquisitor) going to war against Solas if he could prevent it. Those two always got along strongly in the game, and I really enjoyed their cutscenes together. The conversation about how Solas respects the Inquisitor at Skyhold always comes to mind, it showed some true appreciation. I believe that natural empathy came through to Solas too, so instead of losing someone as wise as Solas I made the choice of hopefully redeeming him. As for the Inquisition, I kept it going despite the corruption as a peacekeeping force. I was only slightly tempted to disband, but that really doesn't follow the character I'd created so far. The Inquisition gave Kadan purpose and the things he'd set out to do aren't finished yet, I think he has complete faith in the people around him to bring things back around. 

 

As for our future protagonist in the DA series, I'm assuming they wouldn't know anything about Solas or him as a person so whether or not their approach to the threat of Solas is similar to the Inquisitor's we'll have to see. Maybe they'll end up clashing.

[Dai Grepher]

Sound advice shouldn't have been needed, least of all the Inquisitor's. 

 

 

 

Classic. 

 

 

 

Absolutely. Women can't be warriors, but the women in the Ben-Hassrath who fight aren't "warriors", and the women who are warriors aren't women. A male Qunari who is a craftsman or even part of the priesthood (outside of Ben-Hassrath agents) isn't a male, even though he is. A Basalit-An who just happens to be a mage isn't actually a mage, but they are. And so on...

 

 

 

People undoubtedly lower on the pecking order than she is (and possibly viddathari? Come on, now). 

 

 

 

By the same train of thought, Cole should have been able to expose the plot regardless of Iron Bull's presence. And Solas'. There were plenty of agents from both sides to reveal that. In any event, Cole states that he feels "nothing" from Bull when he is killed. 

 

 

 

The Inquisitor wasn't always the target. If they didn't die in the bombings, the anchor was supposed to take care of them. Then Solas' sabotage threw everything into chaos. 

 

 

 

He could have, as well as everyone else following her orders. But they didn't. 

 

 

 

She might have been wrong about the Inquisitor literally being an agent of Fen'Harel, but since everything we accomplish in the DLC is done in accordance to his will, she wasn't effectively wrong. 

 

Who said the advice was needed? Hissrad never asked for it. He never asked the Inquisitor what he should do.

 

But you can't use the disputed source as its own source. You're begging the question. Give an example of the Qun or an official of the Qun backing your claim that the Qun can be broken in order to advance the Qun. If Viddasala was using females as warriors, then it's just proof that she was violating yet another part of the Qun. Besides, she wasn't even advancing the Qun. She was advancing her own idea of how to hold back magic. The Qunari already have a solution to saarebas.

 

Males are allowed to be craftsmen. If they weren't, then they would not be craftsmen.

 

A saarebas can be declared basalit-an. The Arishok can declare it of a mage Hawke.

 

It proves that her actions were conflicting with the Qun. So her being a rogue agent is entirely possible.

 

Cole was not around any of the agents. But he was near Hissrad. Cole only says he felt no sorrow or pain from Hissrad when he turned and fought the party.

 

But Solas' sabotage happened right away with the Qunari body. Therefore Hissrad should have been able to try to kill the Inquisitor at any point after that, especially if taken into far off areas where the murder could be covered up. And the mark's adverse affects were not known about until the Vir Dirthara. Even then, Viddasala still commanded them to kill the Inquisitor, not let the anchor kill him.

 

Not everyone else, because they didn't know the situation. But Hissrad could have. The fact he did not means he wasn't thinking straight. He blindly followed a Tal-Vashoth for no reason. It makes Hissrad an idiot, and I blame BioWare for that.

 

And just what part of his will did we fulfill by the time the Qunari attack us outside the abandoned temple? And Dragon's Breath had been in the works for some time before this. So Viddasala had wrongly assumed the Inquisition was working with Solas even before this.

[The Baconer]

Who said the advice was needed? Hissrad never asked for it. He never asked the Inquisitor what he should do.

 

Yes, he waited for the Inquisitor's word before making the final decision. 

 

 

Give an example of the Qun or an official of the Qun backing your claim that the Qun can be broken in order to advance the Qun. 

 

All I know of the Qun as it is literally written has exceedingly little relevance in our interactions with Qunari. Beyond that, all we know is what we're told by the Qunari themselves, who have been consistently inconsistent. If you want a more prominent example of the Qun being "broken" for the advancement of the Qunari, one could argue that their entire policy on magic, and potentially the use of Viddath-Bas. 

 

There is no chaos in the world, only complexity.

Knowledge of the complex is wisdom.

From wisdom of the world comes wisdom of the self.

 

Mastery of the self is mastery of the world. Loss of the self is the source of suffering.

 

 

Males are allowed to be craftsmen. If they weren't, then they would not be craftsmen.

 

A saarebas can be declared basalit-an. The Arishok can declare it of a mage Hawke.

 

Or a male shopkeeper (distributor of goods). The point is that certain vocations are reserved for specific genders in Qunari society, but when a person possesses an aptitude for a vocation that is outside their gender, they "become" the opposite gender. Even though they don't. Or when one's work is practically the same or very similar to a vocation that is outside their gender (such as Ben-Hassrath members who fight), but as long as the work goes by a different name, there is no violation. A bas Saarebas who becomes Basalit-An is no longer bas Saarebas, because speaking to and interacting with unbound mages is forbidden otherwise. But of course, they're still a mage in reality. 

 

It's a procession of nonsense-logic allowing for a potentially-infinite number of loopholes for the sake of convenience. And said loopholes have been used often. 

 

 

Cole was not around any of the agents. But he was near Hissrad. 

 

Riiiight.

 

 

But Solas' sabotage happened right away with the Qunari body.

 

Yes, which wasn't supposed to happen. Then he summoned the spirits which was also not supposed to happen. Engaging the Inquisitor in combat was never part of their plan, because it's simply a losing proposition (as demonstrated by the loss of the Gaatlok, the Lyrium mines, and in Iron Bull's death).  Yet, they were forced to put up resistance if they wanted any hope of Dragon's Breath succeeding. 

 

 

Not everyone else, because they didn't know the situation. But Hissrad could have. The fact he did not means he wasn't thinking straight.

 

 

Well, yeah, he's Qunari. 

 

 

And just what part of his will did we fulfill by the time the Qunari attack us outside the abandoned temple? And Dragon's Breath had been in the works for some time before this. So Viddasala had wrongly assumed the Inquisition was working with Solas even before this.

 

The part that involves us disrupting the Qunari and stopping Dragon's Breath, which we spend the entire DLC doing. 

[Gambit458]

Trespasser made me want to shove a sword through Tegan for how whiny he was. My first thought after finishing Trespasser was "Wow, how did Bioware screw up so bad with endings in Mass Effect 3 yet rebound and do it so well with Trespasser?" Trespasser had its flaws, but it got me excited for the next game. It does seem more apparent that your choices don't make much of a difference though with each game they make