190 réponses à ce sujet

[MrFob]

Get a good voice actor, coupled with excellent writing, and you could pull off  Rachni, Elcor, or Hanar companions easily enough. Though you are right that those two elements tend to be in short supply when it comes to dealing with 'alien' aliens. Plus no one wants to take risks, as you said.

 

I'm sure producers scoffed at the idea of a wheeled garbage can that communicated through beeps and whistles, but Star Wars risked it and R2-D2 has become one of the most iconic and memorable characters in the franchise. BioWare needs to take chances, in exploring and showcasing the unknown; and I don't mean in a "Which trending social issue should we tackle?" way either.

 

Yes, R2D2 is a very good example of how it can be done well indeed. Just saying that it's difficult to pull off well (interestingly, BioWares own version of R2D2 T3-M4 from KotOR didn't work for me at all and I basically never took him along). I think that is the main reason why ME species were mostly rubber-head aliens, despite the presumed freedom that a complete CGI production like Mass Effect allows. I'd also say that there is probably a cap in the number of such exotic aliens you can put in one room together before it's too much for the majority of the audience to handle.

 

We'll see if BW has the chops and the guts to pull it off in ME:A. Since they seem to usually design characters around their personality rather than around outside factors (even if those would make more sense, see Ash in ME3), I am skeptical. But who knows, maybe they'll surprise us.

[Vortex13]

Yes, R2D2 is a very good example of how it can be done well indeed. Just saying that it's difficult to pull off well and I think that is the main reason why ME species were mostly rubber-head aliens, despite the presumed freedom that a complete CGI production like Mass Effect allows. I'd also say that there is probably a cap in the number of such exotic aliens you can put in one room together before it's too much for the majority of the audience to handle.

 

We'll see if BW has the chops and the guts to pull it off in ME:A. Since they seem to usually design characters around their personality rather than around outside factors (even if those would make more sense, see Ash in ME3), I am skeptical. But who knows, maybe they'll surprise us.

 

 

Yeah, I really hope BioWare can make some good 'alien' aliens this time around. IMO, their track record hasn't been that great so far.

 

After Mass Effect 1, we didn't see any new aliens added that were't rubber fore headed humans, or just a rehash of a previous idea: The elaboration of the Geth in ME 2 was just an expansion done by Chris L'etolie (and then reduced to Pinocchio bots in ME 3 anyway), and the Leviathans were just (pre-Catalyst) Reapers: Skin Edition.

[Kabooooom]

I'm curious about something Mordin told Shepard during his loyalty mission.

"Human genetic construction, more diverse. Hairs, pigments, height, biotic and intelligence components, Unpredictable that way. Fascinating."

Along those lines.

So, since almost every alien species in the past Mass Effect games were more or less having similar structures, what if we get a species whose genetic construction is almost as diverse or more than humans?

You just brought up the single dumbest comment in all of mass effect. A simple google search would have told the writers that humans are, in fact, abnormally genetically homogenous due to the fact that our species nearly died out and we suffered a severe genetic bottleneck 70,000 years ago.

[ABASOVA]

You just brought up the single dumbest comment in all of mass effect. A simple google search would have told the writers that humans are, in fact, abnormally genetically homogenous due to the fact that our species nearly died out and we suffered a severe genetic bottleneck 70,000 years ago.

I just did the simple (I know wikipedia is not always reliable) google search and now I am confused.

 

The Toba eruption has been linked to a genetic bottleneck in human evolution about 50,000 years ago,[31][32] which may have resulted from a severe reduction in the size of the total human population due to the effects of the eruption on the global climate.[33]

According to the genetic bottleneck theory, between 50,000 and 100,000 years ago, human populations sharply decreased to 3,000–10,000 surviving individuals.[34][35] It is supported by genetic evidence suggesting that today's humans are descended from a very small population of between 1,000 and 10,000 breeding pairs that existed about 70,000 years ago.[36]

 

Proponents of the genetic bottleneck theory (including Robock) suggest that the Toba eruption resulted in a global ecological disaster, including destruction of vegetation along with severe drought in the tropical rainforest belt and in monsoonal regions. For example, a 10-year volcanic winter triggered by the eruption could have largely destroyed the food sources of humans and caused a severe reduction in population sizes.[22] Τhese environmental changes may have generated population bottlenecks in many species, including hominids;[37] this in turn may have accelerated differentiation from within the smaller human population. Therefore, the genetic differences among modern humans may reflect changes within the last 70,000 years, rather than gradual differentiation over millions of years.[38]

 

Other research has cast doubt on a link between Toba and a genetic bottleneck. For example, ancient stone tools in southern India were found above and below a thick layer of ash from the Toba eruption and were very similar across these layers, suggesting that the dust clouds from the eruption did not wipe out this local population.[39][40][41] Additional archaeological evidence from Southern and Northern India also suggests a lack of evidence for effects of the eruption on local populations, leading the authors of the study to conclude, "many forms of life survived the supereruption, contrary to other research which has suggested significant animal extinctions and genetic bottlenecks".[42] However, evidence from pollen analysis has suggested prolonged deforestation in South Asia, and some researchers have suggested that the Toba eruption may have forced humans to adopt new adaptive strategies, which may have permitted them to replace Neanderthals and "other archaic human species".[43] This has been challenged by evidence for the presence of Neanderthals in Europe and H0m0 floresiensis in Southeastern Asia who survived the eruption by 50,000 and 60,000 years, respectively.[44]

 

Additional caveats to the Toba-induced bottleneck theory include difficulties in estimating the global and regional climatic impacts of the eruption and lack of conclusive evidence for the eruption preceding the bottleneck.[45] Furthermore, genetic analysis of Alu sequences across the entire human genome has shown that the effective human population size was less than 26,000 at 1.2 million years ago; possible explanations for the low population size of human ancestors may include repeated population bottlenecks or periodic replacement events from competing H0m0 subspecies.[46]

 

 [39] Mount Toba Eruption – Ancient Humans Unscathed, Study Claims". Retrieved 2008-04-20.

 

[40] Sanderson, Katherine (July 2007). "Super-eruption: no problem?" (– Scholar search). Nature (journal). doi:10.1038/news070702-15. Archived from the original on December 7, 2008. Retrieved 2008-12-12.

 

[41] John Hawks. "At last, the death of the Toba bottleneck".

 

[42] "Newly Discovered Archaeological Sites in India Reveals Ancient Life before Toba". Anthropology.net. 25 February 2010. Retrieved 28 February 2010.

 

[43]Supervolcano Eruption In Sumatra Deforested India 73,000 Years ago". Science Daily. 24 November 2009.; Williams & others 2009.

 

[44] "Environmental Impact of the 73 ka Toba Super-eruption in South Asia – ScienceDirect". Anthropology.net. 24 November 2009. Retrieved 3 March 2010.; "New Evidence Shows Populations Survived the Toba Super-eruption 74,000 Years ago". University of Oxford. 22 February 2009.

 

 

Some debate still going on in the scientific community about that theory though. Don't know what to think  . At least we know something happened once or many times to humans.

[WarGriffin]

 

****ing Rodents!

[The Real Pearl #2]

 

****ing Rodents!

isn't that spore?

[Mistic]

isn't that spore?

 

It's Galactic Civilizations.

[Kabooooom]

I just did the simple (I know wikipedia is not always reliable) google search and now I am confused.


The Toba eruption has been linked to a genetic bottleneck in human evolution about 50,000 years ago,[31][32] which may have resulted from a severe reduction in the size of the total human population due to the effects of the eruption on the global climate.[33]
According to the genetic bottleneck theory, between 50,000 and 100,000 years ago, human populations sharply decreased to 3,000–10,000 surviving individuals.[34][35] It is supported by genetic evidence suggesting that today's humans are descended from a very small population of between 1,000 and 10,000 breeding pairs that existed about 70,000 years ago.[36]

Proponents of the genetic bottleneck theory (including Robock) suggest that the Toba eruption resulted in a global ecological disaster, including destruction of vegetation along with severe drought in the tropical rainforest belt and in monsoonal regions. For example, a 10-year volcanic winter triggered by the eruption could have largely destroyed the food sources of humans and caused a severe reduction in population sizes.[22] Τhese environmental changes may have generated population bottlenecks in many species, including hominids;[37] this in turn may have accelerated differentiation from within the smaller human population. Therefore, the genetic differences among modern humans may reflect changes within the last 70,000 years, rather than gradual differentiation over millions of years.[38]

Other research has cast doubt on a link between Toba and a genetic bottleneck. For example, ancient stone tools in southern India were found above and below a thick layer of ash from the Toba eruption and were very similar across these layers, suggesting that the dust clouds from the eruption did not wipe out this local population.[39][40][41] Additional archaeological evidence from Southern and Northern India also suggests a lack of evidence for effects of the eruption on local populations, leading the authors of the study to conclude, "many forms of life survived the supereruption, contrary to other research which has suggested significant animal extinctions and genetic bottlenecks".[42] However, evidence from pollen analysis has suggested prolonged deforestation in South Asia, and some researchers have suggested that the Toba eruption may have forced humans to adopt new adaptive strategies, which may have permitted them to replace Neanderthals and "other archaic human species".[43] This has been challenged by evidence for the presence of Neanderthals in Europe and H0m0 floresiensis in Southeastern Asia who survived the eruption by 50,000 and 60,000 years, respectively.[44]

Additional caveats to the Toba-induced bottleneck theory include difficulties in estimating the global and regional climatic impacts of the eruption and lack of conclusive evidence for the eruption preceding the bottleneck.[45] Furthermore, genetic analysis of Alu sequences across the entire human genome has shown that the effective human population size was less than 26,000 at 1.2 million years ago; possible explanations for the low population size of human ancestors may include repeated population bottlenecks or periodic replacement events from competing H0m0 subspecies.[46]

[39] Mount Toba Eruption – Ancient Humans Unscathed, Study Claims". Retrieved 2008-04-20.

[40] Sanderson, Katherine (July 2007). "Super-eruption: no problem?" (– Scholar search). Nature (journal). doi:10.1038/news070702-15. Archived from the original on December 7, 2008. Retrieved 2008-12-12.

[41] John Hawks. "At last, the death of the Toba bottleneck".

[42] "Newly Discovered Archaeological Sites in India Reveals Ancient Life before Toba". Anthropology.net. 25 February 2010. Retrieved 28 February 2010.

[43]Supervolcano Eruption In Sumatra Deforested India 73,000 Years ago". Science Daily. 24 November 2009.; Williams & others 2009.

[44] "Environmental Impact of the 73 ka Toba Super-eruption in South Asia – ScienceDirect". Anthropology.net. 24 November 2009. Retrieved 3 March 2010.; "New Evidence Shows Populations Survived the Toba Super-eruption 74,000 Years ago". University of Oxford. 22 February 2009.


Some debate still going on in the scientific community about that theory though. Don't know what to think . At least we know something happened once or many times to humans.

I am confused about why you are confused. The debate is not that one (or many) genetic bottlenecks obviously occurred within our lineage. This is what analysis of our genome suggests, and that is some pretty hardcore evidence.

The debate is what actually caused these bottlenecks, which is a debate that will probably rage forever, because correlation doesn't equal causation. People picked an obvious culprit - a supereruption in roughly the same time period, but that doesn't mean that's what did it. A widespread viral infection could easily have come close to wiping out primitive man before we left Africa, for example, and is a suitable but improvable candidate for earlier bottlenecks. With the recent one, one must explain how our population was reduced 70,000 ish years ago when we had already migrated halfway across the globe. So naturally, people looked towards catastrophes.

But correlation doesn't equal causation, as I said.

[MissMayhem96]

The only questions Bioware needs to ask in deciding alien designs is: Are they sexy enough? And could humans get it on with them within physiological reason?

No one cares if it's too fetishy either Gaider. MAKE IT SO REGARDLESS. >_>

I remember that one behind-the-scenes clip of a Bioware concept artist (?) Talking about how since so many people loved Garrus on ME1 they made him a love interest in ME2..

To me personally, if I find the characters personality interesting I'm going to romance them regardless of looks. Solas, Garrus, and Thane are examples of this..

[Novak]

Yes because the Hanar, Elcor or Leviathan were so humanoid. And there were all the other non sapient species. The thing is right now we have absolutely no clue what other way a species could evolve in a way it could use tools, and having hands (or something which can be used with the same precision) and using hands eventually leads to separating them from the ground. 

The thing is we don't know, that's just our best guess. We are our only example of truly intelligent life that is able to manipulate our surroundings and build tools and eventually develop enough to reach out into space. Sperm whales are extremely intelligent and there are hints that their brains are even more capable than ours, but that alone doesn't cut it. Pattern recognition, long term memory, body parts that can be used in multiple ways one of them assembly and being land based animal to eventually harness an energy source (namely fire) (even oxygen could be required since it provides are relatively stable form of energy, but well that's just really guesswork) is as far as we can tell necessary to become really advanced species. And as we have no other reference or any clue of another way that's what we have to go on there is really no sense in making characters forcefully different.

Another factor is psychological, how connected were the hanar or the elcor? Not really that much  I bet. While they might be funny or interesting not humanoid enough to be really emotionally interesting and that is required from a game which plays with emotions as such. 

 

And finally and this might even be the most important one. Fight and general game mechanics would be radically different and very difficult to develop and probably a little boring. I mean really? Try writing hanar tactical movements. 

 

As for the Asari being too much like humans just with blue tint and some weird skin crests instead of hair. Post ME1 has revealed some more differences as the skin texture was different more like little plates. But really that has a reason for it, and they said as much in the art books they just wanted to make attractive aliens which can be romanced. They kinda dipped their foot in the water with that one so to speak. In the beginning they didn't know how this Alien human romance thing is gonna fly so they started lightly with the Asari (In ME1 was no indication of cross species ****** other than Asari if I recall correctly) and only expanded after the first one since fan demand was there and they knew the market would respond. I'm completely fine with it, I get why they did it and I actually really like the concept I don't need some totally weird **** like Garrus and Tali was probably only acceptable because you had the hips and were able to imagine the rest of it (that's my opinion yours may differ and that's why BioWare has responded to you and made almost everyone fuckable, I for one stick with the Blue Angels) 

 

But if you want to a more lore specific explaination of things read the codex and you'll notice that it's guessed that the Asari actually use some form of telepathy and biochemistry to make them seem attractive to all the species (which makes sense since much of what determins if we find another human attractive is actually not visual and more to do with many smells we don't actively pick up) so in fact they could be a big fat jellyfish. Of course you could poke holes in that all you want by saying if that were true human Armor wouldn't fit and recorded videos would display the true form since they can't influence the cameras and would give you a clear picture, but really who cares. 

 

I just want a Asari squad member in the team. 

In the new Mass Effect of course

Modifié par Novak, 16 janvier 2016 - 08:36 .

[Novak]

Yeah its odd that we didn't get any furry aliens. You'd think they would exist. I wouldn't mind if the furry ended up being a giant sentient cat/dog whatever. Like Red XIII in Final Fantasy VII. I know it gets annoying that I keep bringing it up all the time in 97 and as it happens even contemporary games are behind it in some regards. Kinda embarrassing.

 

I would also support shark/dolphin people. Or just generally humanoid aquatic people. Alien mermaids. as the new asari.

And maybe a very small race. Little gremiins like the Asura in Guild Wars 2. Make them extremely bloodthirsty for added fun.

 

More likely to be an engine issue. This might change with Frostbite

[Mistic]

I just want a Asari squad member in the team. 

In the new Mass Effect of course

 

So far, we've had three possible Asari squad members (compared to 8 humans, 2 krogans, 2 AIs, 1 turian, 1 quarian, 1 salarian, 1 drell, 1 prothean) and there's been at least one available Asari companion in each game. So if there's an alien race with good possibilities, that's the Asari.

[Kabooooom]

. The thing is right now we have absolutely no clue what other way a species could evolve in a way it could use tools, and having hands (or something which can be used with the same precision) and using hands eventually leads to separating them from the ground.
The thing is we don't know, that's just our best guess.

This is not accurate. We actually do know that there are other ways, cephalopods and elephants can each manipulate objects with remarkable dexterity. Indeed, for cephalopods, an argument could be made that the dexterity is even better and more precise than with hands. Other animals that utilize tools, such as cetaceans and certain avian species, do so clumsily with their mouths and with minimal dexterity. Dexterity requires anatomy that lends itself to fine manipulation - either with hands, tentacles, a proboscis, whatever.

For terrestrial animals, the obvious path to take would be to modify pre-existing structures that would be ubiquitous among species - for vertebrates this was hands and feet, and evolution adapted them for increased dexterity and manipulation of objects among vastly diverse species with multiple lineages through convergence. Obviously this is an incredibly effective way for nature to create a way for an animal to manipulate the environment.

This is why I am not that averse to bipedal aliens. Clearly, such anatomy is of adaptive significance. What I am averse to is it being displayed as ubiquitous - instead, be a little more creative Bioware. I liked the Hanar for this reason. And the Leviathans, they were probably my favorite of all - a species that enslaved another species to do the work they couldn't do. That was brilliant. That's the sort of cleverness that should be brought to the table for Andromeda.

But somehow I think we will just get more rubber mask aliens.

[Mechler]

More likely to be an engine issue. This might change with Frostbite

 

Hopefully.

[Vortex13]

One thing I don't get with non-humnoid animations, is that the argument for not including them is that they would be too much work for the developer. Now, while it is true that such unique designs would require more attention than other elements, I don't see how it would be brutally difficult to implement especially when 99% of all the other characters and NPCs utilize the same humanoid animation rig. 

 

Even if fully animating a Rachni or Hanar took 100+ hours compared to the regular humanoid aliens, it shouldn't (comparatively), be that big of an issue when all the humanoid animations can be used for all the other characters in addition to already having animation rigs and skeletons already completed from other titles like DA:I or Battlefield that can easily be swapped into Mass Effect. 

 

Walking/Running cycles, sitting and standing animations, etc. all of these have been done already in countless games; with at least two utilizing the same engine that Andromeda will feature. Copy and pasting this previous work should make any initial start up animation process for humanoids virtually non existent, so why would it be so difficult to take all that saved time and utilizing it to bring something truly unique to the game?

[Enigmatick]

Mass Effect is partly an homage to pulpy space operas.

 

The asari design is said to literally be a parallel to "off color space babes". I think their priorities are a bit different than yours.

[Laughing_Man]

The asari design is said to literally be a parallel to "off color space babes". I think their priorities are a bit different than yours.

 

Well, things never really changed since ME1 in this regard, and neither are the Asari the only alien race designed for fanservice.

 

The Drell were a similar attempt in the opposite direction. (some would claim that it was not successful, but then not everyone likes the Asari either)

 

The fact that Turians / Quarians were made romancable was also cheap fanservice that had no regard for logic or lore.

I mean, you can kill Quarians by breathing on them, and apparently Turian genetic material is deadly for Krogan.

 

(it's simply rather similar to choosing to have sexual relations with someone that has a deadly STD, or doing the reverse as someone that has a deadly STD, the fact that you can be careful and take pills therefore minimizing risk somewhat, does not make the whole idea any more appealing)

 

 

As far as I'm concerned, if it will allow for a more coherent less stupid story telling and world-building, they should just kick the romance wagon

of the nearest cliff and be done with this headache.

[NM_Che56]

There are practical considerations for making aliens anthropomorphic.  Animation is probably one of them.  Also, aliens I've seen in other IP often resemble something we're familiar with.  We can't get away from it because we have never experienced anything really alien, in the literal sense of the word.  

[Laughing_Man]

There are practical considerations for making aliens anthropomorphic.  Animation is probably one of them.  Also, aliens I've seen in other IP often resemble something we're familiar with.  We can't get away from it because we have never experienced anything really alien, in the literal sense of the word.  

 

I don't know, there are some very cool and crazy alien designs on deviantart.

[Mistic]

Even if fully animating a Rachni or Hanar took 100+ hours compared to the regular humanoid aliens, it shouldn't (comparatively), be that big of an issue when all the humanoid animations can be used for all the other characters in addition to already having animation rigs and skeletons already completed from other titles like DA:I or Battlefield that can easily be swapped into Mass Effect. 

 

Walking/Running cycles, sitting and standing animations, etc. all of these have been done already in countless games; with at least two utilizing the same engine that Andromeda will feature. Copy and pasting this previous work should make any initial start up animation process for humanoids virtually non existent, so why would it be so difficult to take all that saved time and utilizing it to bring something truly unique to the game?

 

And yet there are other threads which point out the problem of copy-pasting animations: female Shepard having exactly the same animations as male Shepard (who also would need improvement too). Maybe some players would like for Bioware to put that extra effort in improving those animations before thinking of aliens. After all, we aren't playing as aliens, but as humans.

[Draining Dragon]

I thought they all looked sufficiently alien while still seeming like people, with the exception of the asari, who looked a bit too human.

[ABASOVA]

I thought they all looked sufficiently alien while still seeming like people, with the exception of the asari, who looked a bit too human.

Lol. These statements always omit the obvious!

 

Asari too human

 

Quarian so alien

 

 

I'm going to guess there will be mass recognition of the above when the new squaddie is a guy 

 

 

BioWare he is way too human

[Laughing_Man]

I thought they all looked sufficiently alien while still seeming like people, with the exception of the asari, who looked a bit too human.

 

Have you seen the Tali picture? She is literally a stock photo of a completely human girl. With glowy tattoos.

 

Edit:

 

Ninja'd.

[ABASOVA]

Have you seen the Tali picture? She is literally a stock photo of a completely human girl. With glowy tattoos.

 

Edit:

 

Ninja'd.

The response you will get:

 

But...but Tali has 3 fingers and 3 toes and bent legs.

 

The response they get: 

 

So what asari breed through mind melding, are parthenogenic, have head tentacles, uber-biotics, and have some weird drell-like frills on the back of their necks.

 

But it is still not good enough!
 

Quarians are just humans in cool suits, and you can thank the photoshop. And the books and one of the devs imagining Tali looked like Famke Janssen.

 

 

Cosplay! Imagines what she would look like in ^that outfit 

 

 

At least she don't look like a turian woman!

 

 

^ She is the new romance for the guys. Move aside Cassie and Josie!

[capn233]

You just brought up the single dumbest comment in all of mass effect. A simple google search would have told the writers that humans are, in fact, abnormally genetically homogenous due to the fact that our species nearly died out and we suffered a severe genetic bottleneck 70,000 years ago.

 

Unfortunately when they were writing they couldn't find any comparing genetic homogeneity of humans against that of other space-faring civilizations.