18 réponses à ce sujet

[CosmicGnosis]

Solas totally expected the Orb to kill Corypheus, which it kind of did... except Solas didn't realize that Corypheus had mastered the power of the Blight. And this single miscalculation spawned the rest of the game. To undo that mistake, Solas used the Inquisitor, the sole survivor of the explosion and bearer of the Anchor. But wait... How did the Inquisitor survive the explosion? I doubt that the Anchor saved him/her because Solas had anticipated that Corypheus would create it, and the process was supposed to kill him. So the Anchor alone couldn't have protected the Inquisitor. Yeah, I wonder if there was some "Divine intervention" (pun) going on after all. Some Herald of Andraste stuff. Not literally Andraste, though, but Mythal or something. It's just very strange...

 

Another issue is the dark future from In Hushed Whispers. I still don't understand what was ultimately going to happen to Corypheus. If the Anchor was going to kill the Inquisitor eventually, would it have killed Corypheus, too? And if so, could he have just possessed another tainted body, or was the Anchor more "spiritual" than physical, and thus would have actually annihilated him anyway? Corypheus didn't fully understand the magic he was wielding, and I really doubt that his grand plans were even possible. It's more likely that he would have destroyed both the world and himself instead of actually becoming the world's new god.

[Aren]

Solas totally expected the Orb to kill Corypheus, which it kind of did... except Solas didn't realize that Corypheus had mastered the power of the Blight. And this single miscalculation spawned the rest of the game. 

 

Another issue is the dark future from In Hushed Whispers. I still don't understand what was ultimately going to happen to Corypheus. If the Anchor was going to kill the Inquisitor eventually, would it have killed Corypheus, too? And if so, could he have just possessed another tainted body, or was the Anchor more "spiritual" than physical, and thus would have actually annihilated him anyway? Corypheus didn't fully understand the magic he was wielding, and I really doubt that his grand plans were even possible. It's more likely that he would have destroyed both the world and himself instead of actually becoming the world's new god.

 

 

I'm unsure about it.

His ability would have been capable to save him from the anchor?

I don't think so since the magical mark doesn't' just affect the body but also alter in part the nature of a being,it become part of their life force,i think it make you more "Elven" so probably the anchor would have followed him into the new body at each new  rebirth.

I once argued that Corypheus immortality would have also not been working against Solas petrification ability.

[CosmicGnosis]

I think it would be really interesting if the Inquisitor's survival was more than just luck, but not something that the Chantry faithful expected. Like maybe Mythal recognized Solas' error before he did, and intervened in order to preserve the means to combat Corypheus (saved the Inquisitor). 

[Dai Grepher]

The spirit in the Fade saved the player character. She saw Justinia calling for help, she saw the player character try to help her, she saw her knock the orb to him, and she saw him pick it up. The spirit knew the magic would kill the player character, so she protected him. Then when he awoke she helped him escape the Fade.

 

Alternate theory?

 

The Maker did it.

[Wulfram]

Maybe the Inquisitor was better positioned to take a jump into the fade because they weren't doing the ritual?
Maybe Corypheus would have got into the fade immediately and Solas just really sucks at making plans?

[Beerfish]

For such a haughty elf Solas made a pretty big error with the whole, oh corfrigginus will get killed by the bowling ball of death bit.

[Heimdall]

I would assume the spirit of Faith was somehow responsible, or the wouldn't have been conferred on Corypheus had it gone as planned.

That seems more likely, since not even Solas seems able to transfer the Anchor to himself. So it seems that Corypheus wouldn't have receive the Anchor immediately, that was just a fluke of the Inquisitor's interference.

[CosmicGnosis]

The "Divine" spirit probably did actually intervene, and I suspect that we haven't learned everything about that spirit, yet. But I still want an answer about my dark future question: What would have happened to Corypheus if he had the Anchor?

[Dai Grepher]

I think Corypheus would have been able to master the anchor, since he understood how the magic worked. But even if it would have killed him eventually, he would have simply resurrected in another tainted creature. He also still would have had the orb. I think he was filling it with red lyrium energy after the Conclave explosion. He may have been able to fashion another anchor made out of taint magic.

 

As for the bad future, I think this shows that Corypheus was either still trying to enter the Black City, or he was successful but it did not hold the power he thought was there. It's also possible that he released some of the evanuris by expanding the Breach. If so, he may have been locked in battle with them, which would explain why he let Alexius live for so long without coming to kill him. I'm sure he was fighting against Flemeth as well. He likely also had Samson drink from the Well of Sorrows, messing up Flemeth's plans even more.

 

Also... Descent shows us that...

 

Spoiler

...the Breach stirred the titan awake. So maybe the Breach being that large caused the titan to freak out and start moving around too much, thus destroying most of Ferelden.

[Ambient_Riot]

Actually, I don't think Solas expected Corypheus to obtain the Anchor at all. As far as we can tell, the Anchor is a one-time deal. Corypheus was unable to replicate it with the Orb, and when he was unable to remove it and decided to kill the Inquisitor, he determined to find another way to enter the Fade entirely. Solas' original plan had Cory dying in the explosion, with him retrieving the now unlocked orb and gaining the Anchor for himself. But as far as we can tell, even if things had went according to plan, all he would've recovered was the Orb as the Anchor would've been applied to Corypheus as everything exploded. My guess is that this is just another one of Solas' **** ups. He likely didn't expect Cory to have the knowledge to properly use the orb, much less to know about the Anchor or how to apply it. 

 

As for whether or not Corypheus could've survived the Anchor, I doubt it. He was powerful, but he's not even remotely on the same level as Solas, even weakened as he is. It probably would've destroyed his current body eventually, and he would've passed on to a new host to be reborn. I don't think the mark is spiritual, as the physical removal of the arm bearing the Anchor saved the Inquisitor.

[nightscrawl]

Solas totally expected the Orb to kill Corypheus, which it kind of did... except Solas didn't realize that Corypheus had mastered the power of the Blight. And this single miscalculation spawned the rest of the game. To undo that mistake, Solas used the Inquisitor, the sole survivor of the explosion and bearer of the Anchor. But wait... How did the Inquisitor survive the explosion? I doubt that the Anchor saved him/her because Solas had anticipated that Corypheus would create it, and the process was supposed to kill him. So the Anchor alone couldn't have protected the Inquisitor. Yeah, I wonder if there was some "Divine intervention" (pun) going on after all. Some Herald of Andraste stuff. Not literally Andraste, though, but Mythal or something. It's just very strange...
 
Another issue is the dark future from In Hushed Whispers. I still don't understand what was ultimately going to happen to Corypheus. If the Anchor was going to kill the Inquisitor eventually, would it have killed Corypheus, too? And if so, could he have just possessed another tainted body, or was the Anchor more "spiritual" than physical, and thus would have actually annihilated him anyway? Corypheus didn't fully understand the magic he was wielding, and I really doubt that his grand plans were even possible. It's more likely that he would have destroyed both the world and himself instead of actually becoming the world's new god.

 
I rather assumed that being at the nexus of the explosion and becoming simultaneously afflicted with the Anchor, as well as being sucked into the Fade, is what saved the future Inquisitor. But... that doesn't account for the Divine's survival**. Also, if the surrounding Wardens were killed, along with Corypheus, how did he use one of them to hop bodies? If it were just the Inquisitor that survived and was sucked in the Fade I could understand it, but not with those other things.
 
And you have to admit, the world one year in the future wasn't looking too hot anyway. Who would want to rule over that miserable wreck?

 

 

** I've always assumed that the Divine did survive the explosion and we see the real her in those memory flashbacks later on. Then she urged the future Inquisitor to go on without her and was killed. Then the spirit took her form after that, who is what we interact with in the Fade at Adamant.

 

For such a haughty elf Solas made a pretty big error with the whole, oh corfrigginus will get killed by the bowling ball of death bit.

"Bowling ball of death." I love it.

[In Exile]

As to how the divine survived, we see the anchor allow people to enter the physical fade even if they lack it: this is what happens with the Abyss quest. The Inquisitor uses the anchor to travel physically into the Fade, and the companions are also able to enter (alongside Hawke and the Warden companion).

[nightscrawl]

^ That's fine, but what about all those Wardens and Corypheus?

[sandalisthemaker]

I have lots of questions too.

 

Where were all the thousands of Chantry sisters, brothers, and clerics, templars, mages, Cassandra, Leliana, etc when the Divine was captured by Corypheus?  Before the explosion, when she was being held and bound by the Wardens?   No one alive afterwards including the right and left hand of the Divine know who Corypheus was before In Your Heart Shall Burn, so that means they didn't see him/know he captured the Divine?  Seems unlikely. 

 

How did the Inquisitor stumble into the ritual? Where was he/she during the Conclave, and how did he/she bumble into the room?

 

Why did the Inquisitor scramble to grab the orb since presumably he/she had no idea what it was, what it did, or whether or not a violently glowing magical object was even safe to touch like that? 

 

Alas, we'll likely never know. 

[Wren]

 

 

 

I'm unsure about it.

His ability would have been capable to save him from the anchor?

I don't think so since the magical mark doesn't' just affect the body but also alter in part the nature of a being,it become part of their life force,i think it make you more "Elven" so probably the anchor would have followed him into the new body at each new  rebirth.

I once argued that Corypheus immortality would have also not been working against Solas petrification ability.

 

Solas didn't gain his petrification ability until after he absorbed Mythal's essence after Corypheus was already dead.  

[nightscrawl]

I have lots of questions too.
 
Where were all the thousands of Chantry sisters, brothers, and clerics, templars, mages, Cassandra, Leliana, etc when the Divine was captured by Corypheus?  Before the explosion, when she was being held and bound by the Wardens?   No one alive afterwards including the right and left hand of the Divine know who Corypheus was before In Your Heart Shall Burn, so that means they didn't see him/know he captured the Divine?  Seems unlikely.

Well the Conclave would supposedly have lasted quite a while, with people being camped out there and such. So it could have happened during some down time. I've never had too much of a problem with that. BUT there are a special group of templars, the Knights Divine, that guard her specifically. Wtf were they??

 

Where was he/she during the Conclave...

Many players have said they wanted some sort of prologue depicting these events, seeing our PC before they became the Herald and so on. I happen to prefer the way it was done, dropping us right into the thick of things, no memory, etc, leaving everything up to head-canon. But that's just me.

 

How did the Inquisitor stumble into the ritual? ... and how did he/she bumble into the room?
 
Why did the Inquisitor scramble to grab the orb since presumably he/she had no idea what it was, what it did, or whether or not a violently glowing magical object was even safe to touch like that? 
 
Alas, we'll likely never know.

Yepper, totally agree with this. While I don't need a prologue of walking around the Conclave, I would have liked just a tad bit more expansion for the scene. The whole thing just seems unlikely.

As for the orb, I've always thought that was rather amusing, but I can understand it. I think it might be some sort of reflex to reach for something like that. Also, you can see that the Divine knocks it out of Corypheus's hand, so the soon-to-be-Herald reaches for it thinking it is something important that should be retrieved, and possibly kept from the bad guy assaulting the Divine.

[Gervaise]

I have been thinking about this too.   Corypheus seemed to gain a fair bit of knowledge from interacting with the orb.   He knew about the Temple of Mythal and the Well of Sorrows from consulting it.   I also wonder if that is how he knew about the vallaslin being slave markings.   His era was a very long time after the raising of the Veil so it seems doubtful it would be something he knew from Tevinter history, seeing as no one from Tevinter has mentioned it before.   His aim seems to have been to enter the Black city and assume the throne of godhood but was it also to tear down the Veil completely?   Did he see in the orb that it had been used to construct it?  What did he think he was going to get from the Well of Sorrows?

 

I think the spirit in the Fade saved the Inquisitor and that it could have been a faith spirit, although that begs the question, why didn't it save Justinia since she was the one of faith you assume it was watching?     Alternatively, could it have been a Hope spirit?    These are meant to be very rare and powerful.   That could account for it helping the Inquisitor because entering when they did gave the hope to Justinia that Cory could be stopped (not from killing her but from completing his plan), then them getting the anchor gave everyone the hope that the Breach could be closed and later that Corypheus could be defeated.   The song that Giselle leads everyone in is a song about hope.    

 

Strangely enough, my Lavellan initially believed that if there had been a divine being behind him in the Fade, it must have been Mythal (since he had her vallaslin) and thus an indication that his gods were returning to the world (ironic) and when Solas told him about the elven origin of the orb, he felt even more convinced that it had been directed to him as the rightful bearer, whilst Cory was the true thief, but I doubt that Flemeth had anything to do with events, even though she did know about Solas handing over his orb to Cory.

 

In the dark future I wonder if Corypheus reached the Well of Sorrows and got Calpurnia to drink from it (I think that would be his default choice over Samson).   In which case, did he get any information from it?    What happened to Flemeth in the dark future?     Was she just holed up somewhere waiting for the merging of the material world and the Fade to get to the point where the evanuris were released?    Or was she just cursing Solas for his stupidity because this wasn't the way it should have gone? 

[Dai Grepher]

Where were all the thousands of Chantry sisters, brothers, and clerics, templars, mages, Cassandra, Leliana, etc when the Divine was captured by Corypheus?  Before the explosion, when she was being held and bound by the Wardens?   No one alive afterwards including the right and left hand of the Divine know who Corypheus was before In Your Heart Shall Burn, so that means they didn't see him/know he captured the Divine?  Seems unlikely. 

 

How did the Inquisitor stumble into the ritual? Where was he/she during the Conclave, and how did he/she bumble into the room?

 

Why did the Inquisitor scramble to grab the orb since presumably he/she had no idea what it was, what it did, or whether or not a violently glowing magical object was even safe to touch like that? 

 

Alas, we'll likely never know. 

 

They were in the temple, only Cassandra and Leliana were away. I think it is said that Cassandra was with Varric at the time, escorting him to the conclave to meet the Divine. I think Leliana tells you where she was too. I think she said Justinia told her to stay behind in case something happened. She did give the directive that if the conclave failed that the Inquisition should be reestablished.

 

My theory on the conclave is that the player character, in my case the male human mage, discovered the main meeting chamber where everyone was slain. So he then went running into the nearby room when he heard the Divine call for help.

 

As for how Corypheus got in and captured the Divine, I think it went like this.

 

Corypheus possesses a Grey Warden, and walks in with the rest of the Wardens (who Justinia trusted). These Wardens probably had no idea about Corypheus. Then when all the Grand Clerics, Templars, Mages, Carta, Valo-Kas, any possible elves, and everyone else was in the main chamber talking Corypheus took control of the Grey Wardens and started killing everyone except the Divine. I suspect Corypheus may have launched into his "black liquid takeover" animation first. That way everyone would be focused on the one Grey Warden while the other Wardens attacked them. Then Corypheus blasted the crap out of everyone and the Wardens dragged Justina to a backroom. Corypheus went to fetch the orb.

 

If there were any survivors in the main chamber, they probably ran away to get help, and this is where the player character came from. He went running into the backroom when he heard Justina, just as Corypheus was engaging in the sacrificial ritual.

 

I doubt the player character was in the main room when any of this happened, since there is no blood on him.

 

Cory probably thought everyone was dead or had fled the temple.

 

He grabbed the orb because the plot needed to move forward. But even from a logical standpoint, if the Divine knocked it out of the monster's hand, and the monster wants it, then logically the player would grab it first to keep the monster from getting it.
 

[Dai Grepher]

I have been thinking about this too.   Corypheus seemed to gain a fair bit of knowledge from interacting with the orb.   He knew about the Temple of Mythal and the Well of Sorrows from consulting it.   I also wonder if that is how he knew about the vallaslin being slave markings.   His era was a very long time after the raising of the Veil so it seems doubtful it would be something he knew from Tevinter history, seeing as no one from Tevinter has mentioned it before.   His aim seems to have been to enter the Black city and assume the throne of godhood but was it also to tear down the Veil completely?   Did he see in the orb that it had been used to construct it?  What did he think he was going to get from the Well of Sorrows?

 

I think the spirit in the Fade saved the Inquisitor and that it could have been a faith spirit, although that begs the question, why didn't it save Justinia since she was the one of faith you assume it was watching?     Alternatively, could it have been a Hope spirit?    These are meant to be very rare and powerful.   That could account for it helping the Inquisitor because entering when they did gave the hope to Justinia that Cory could be stopped (not from killing her but from completing his plan), then them getting the anchor gave everyone the hope that the Breach could be closed and later that Corypheus could be defeated.   The song that Giselle leads everyone in is a song about hope.    

 

Strangely enough, my Lavellan initially believed that if there had been a divine being behind him in the Fade, it must have been Mythal (since he had her vallaslin) and thus an indication that his gods were returning to the world (ironic) and when Solas told him about the elven origin of the orb, he felt even more convinced that it had been directed to him as the rightful bearer, whilst Cory was the true thief, but I doubt that Flemeth had anything to do with events, even though she did know about Solas handing over his orb to Cory.

 

In the dark future I wonder if Corypheus reached the Well of Sorrows and got Calpurnia to drink from it (I think that would be his default choice over Samson).   In which case, did he get any information from it?    What happened to Flemeth in the dark future?     Was she just holed up somewhere waiting for the merging of the material world and the Fade to get to the point where the evanuris were released?    Or was she just cursing Solas for his stupidity because this wasn't the way it should have gone? 

 

Most of Corypheus' knowledge about the elves probably came from Dumat. He did know about the Well before getting to the Temple of Mythal. Which is why he had Samson or Calpernia ready. I doubt he knew anything about the orb aside from that he held immense magical power. He probably figured it was like the somnoborium in Tevinter. In fact, the somnoborium were probably based off of the foci orbs. Cory just wanted to get back into the Black City and claim the dark power that was there, thinking it would make him a god.

 

Probably because Justinia wanted the player to survive. "Run while you can, warn them!" She knew she was toast. She knew the player needed to survive to warn the others. Yes, it could have been a Hope Spirit.
 

My Levellan thought she was saved by Falon'Din, since she has his vallaslin and because he's the "Friend of the Dead" and I think he is also connected to the belief in "fortune". Same with her getting the mark. After the Spirit she thought Falon'Din sent it to help her, and after Solas she believed that events were arranged by Falon'Din to where the Dread Wolf's plan will ultimately backfire on him, because now she knows that Falon'Din is alive somewhere and can be released (headcanon required, obviously).

 

Flemeth and Mythal probably thought that Solas would just wait (like a smart person) until he was strong enough, and then tear down the Veil.

 

Nope, Samson is the default choice. Cory's memory crystals at the Temple of Dumat state that "Samson has failed, but Calpernia stands ready". So Samson was always his first choice, while Calpernia was probably just meant to handle some of the Venatori issues (regarding slaves). Plus, Samson is picked to drink from the Well if you sided with mages, even though Calpernia is still around.

 

Cursing Solas, most likely. She clearly made no attempt to rescue him if he is captured. I suspect Cory was running into problems with the evanuris. I'm not sure if he got the Well's knowledge. Maybe it wasn't as effective with Samson, or maybe Mythal can choose who gets it. The Inquisitor who drinks can be in the Well's "world" and ask things before getting any answers, and then the Inquisitor has to agree to the compulsion or demand answers. So maybe there is a consciousness that can choose to reject someone who applies for compulsion. Then again, the Well may have granted the compulsion thinking that the person could be used against Corypheus, in which case Cory could control Samson with the red lyrium or Calpernia with the binding.

 

But yeah, Flemeth, Morrigan, OGB Kieran, Mythal, etc. They were probably all pretty powerless against Corypheus in the bad future.