Immersion really? Did we morph into the Skyrim nexus forums all of sudden? I didn't even think that the DA games had the kind of atmosphere where you could immerse yourself, rather than just an interactive movie where you could make a few choices from time to time.
"Immersion" is the worst nonsense buzzword in video game fandom ever. It makes my bred-on-tabletop-games soul weep when I see misguided players conflate RPGs with this virtual reality-ish garbage criterion.
I don't mind the NPC initiating if it's a part of their personality, but I want the option to turn them down nicely, or to just ignore it. You don't have to outright reject someone, you can also just ignore a flirt -- "So, how about them Venatori?" But I also do NOT want the
option to go anywhere. I want to be 100% sure of my intention when I click a line that is meant to be a flirt. I got ninjamanced by Leliana once in DAO simply because I was being all girly about certain things. It was quite a bummer. I don't really care if that's realistic and that you can't control how others react, it still sucked to unintentionally lead someone on.
Zevran. Zevran was IMO a well-done example of an NPC initiating flirts. I mean, it's Zev. He flirts with the Warden after s/he has just royally kicked the tar out of him. It's clearly part of his personality. If you politely ask him to stop, he stops. The only thing that I didn't like was the fact that you could net some disapproval for turning him down; I can see the justification for that with Anders, but not Zevran. Guy hits on everything that moves, he should be able to take a simple "no."
Also, agreed on the heart option. Unintentionally leading someone on is one of those IRL elements of romance that's uncomfortable for everyone. I don't really want or need it in my escapist fantasy 
Yeeeeaah, you do realize there were all sorts of races, colors, sexual orientations, and religious backgrounds in DAO and DA2, right? Nothing has changed.
As for why they join the Inquisition... there is a giant ****** hole in the sky and an ancient darkspawn magister that wants to kill everyone. Who the hell wouldn't want to stop that?
I think the main reason is that this "political correction" is way too modern, not something that you had during the dark ages. Sure DAO had some but in its core had a medeivel view.
One of my complaints of the inquisition was actually that it felt too modern in its views on hbtq, female standing and they never really went deep on the racial aspect. It feels that the writers are scared to offend the known communitys. Rather explain that this is how it was during that time
I think the main reason is that this "political correction" is way too modern, not something that you had during the dark ages. Sure DAO had some but in its core had a medeivel view.
One of my complaints of the inquisition was actually that it felt too modern in its views on hbtq, female standing and they never really went deep on the racial aspect. It feels that the writers are scared to offend the known communitys. Rather explain that this is how it was during that time
But... DAO had already established that Thedas didn't have the same type of hangups.
During what time? Thedas is a medieval fantasy, emphasis on the fantasy. There's no "this is how it was". There were no dragons in 12th century. You couldn't heal a gaping hole in your side by waving your hands over it and downing a magic potion.
And yet the witcher game applies this and comes out on top
Zevran. Zevran was IMO a well-done example of an NPC initiating flirts. I mean, it's Zev. He flirts with the Warden after s/he has just royally kicked the tar out of him. It's clearly part of his personality. If you politely ask him to stop, he stops. The only thing that I didn't like was the fact that you could net some disapproval for turning him down; I can see the justification for that with Anders, but not Zevran. Guy hits on everything that moves, he should be able to take a simple "no."
Also, agreed on the heart option. Unintentionally leading someone on is one of those IRL elements of romance that's uncomfortable for everyone. I don't really want or need it in my escapist fantasy
Zevran was pretty fun 
Bioware games are usually about gathering people who specialize in different things and come from different places, because you need the very best to succeed. DA2 was about a group of people who couldn't find their place in the world and ended up friends. In both cases, it makes perfect sense we would end up with a diverse cast.
And yet the witcher game applies this and comes out on top
The Witcher series has a set canon, the books it was based on take place in a fictional Europe or really a fictional version of Poland, racial diversity was nonexistent, and at the time it was written LGBT issues didn't exist there. Also, Sapkowski has made some wildly racist comments in the past, so it's not like he wanted only white people for immersive reasons. Bioware on the other hand has 100% control over the worlds they create, and the previous lead writer for DA is gay. So a very bad comparison.
I appreciate the point about not putting in characters just to check off boxes. All characters ultimately should serve the story and have a reason for appearing. This is the same issue with having too many cameos, returning characters, or too much fanservice, etc.
But it's an RPG. One that specifically invites the player to participate in creating their own characters, picking their team, and making choices. People are going to want to make choices and see themselves in characters they can identify with. Whether it is wanting more characters that look like them or more romances of a certian type or more combat classes to choose from or whathaveyou. This is different from a movie or novel, where you might have a story about some fixed protagonist in a specific setting or time period, where the audience is expected to experience the story from the perspective of someone else.
To be honest I do kinda feel like a bit of the magic has been lost with the romances in a way, because they can't be as spontaneous anymore. That is not to say that the romance arcs themselves aren't good. DAI has some of the best in the series. They have gotten better written, more nuanced, and varied. But, at the same time we have a lot of..."Warning! Clicking the heart will initiate romance with X character. Are you sure? Are you doubly sure??" I miss the days where you could unexpectedly stumble into a romance with Leliana or someone just by being nice. I do think some people have gotten offended a little too easily because some character tried flirting with them.
There have been complaints in the past about certain romances being "forced" on the player.
It's hard to figure out what people want...
No one will ever be happy with how they implement dialogue, especially in the romances. Personally, I think it was wise to err on the side of clarity and maybe lose a bit of spontaneity, but that's just me.
The Witcher series has a set canon, the books it was based on take place in a fictional Europe or really a fictional version of Poland, racial diversity was nonexistent, and at the time it was written LGBT issues didn't exist there. Also, Sapkowski has made some wildly racist comments in the past, so it's not like he wanted only white people for immersive reasons. Bioware on the other hand has 100% control over the worlds they create, and the previous lead writer for DA is gay. So a very bad comparison.
The Witcher series has a set canon, the books it was based on take place in a fictional Europe or really a fictional version of Poland, racial diversity was nonexistent, and at the time it was written LGBT issues didn't exist there. Also, Sapkowski has made some wildly racist comments in the past, so it's not like he wanted only white people for immersive reasons. Bioware on the other hand has 100% control over the worlds they create, and the previous lead writer for DA is gay. So a very bad comparison.
Old man Sapkowski have 0 personal influence and 0 care about Witcher games of CD project who can do and show what they want. he would never look and care about them and everything what was not in his old books is non-canon
we not see non-white people in witcher books and games exept zerricandiands cos they as zebras are far far far away on south of nilfgaard and witcher books not cover entire lands of witcher universe cos Geralt and others was not been there in books
Sapkowski is a racist? I thought the whole Scoia'Tael thing meant he was against racism.
Scoia'Tael. Zerricandians, Witchers and Witches who were treated realisticly...he show racism and many themes as it must be
Sapkowski is a racist? I thought the whole Scoia'Tael thing meant he was against racism.
He made some racist comments and then brushed it off, because he was being supposedly sarcastic. Nothing more, but these comments and his rude public behaviour left a bad taste
Old man Sapkowski have 0 personal influence and 0 care about Witcher games of CD project who can do and show what they want. he would never look and care about them and everything what was not in his old books is non-canon
Scoia'Tael. Zerricandians, Witchers and Witches who were treated realisticly...he show racism and many themes as it must be
He hates the video games, but this doesn't change the fact that CD Projekt Red try to be as close to the source material as possible
He hates the video games, but this doesn't change the fact that CD Projekt Red try to be as close to the source material as possible
As a bio when they do games in a starwars and dnd universe
Which is exactly why they developed DA and ME. BioWare have a creative freedom with their self-created franchises that CD Projekt Red don't with The Witcher, so their worlds can have whatever lore they choose.As a bio when they do games in a starwars and dnd universe
Bioware games are usually about gathering people who specialize in different things and come from different places, because you need the very best to succeed. DA2 was about a group of people who couldn't find their place in the world and ended up friends. In both cases, it makes perfect sense we would end up with a diverse cast.
Many our companions what Inquisitor have as options does not have sense to be his companions rather then just agents of Inquisition and some agents have sense to be our companions
Dorian(exile who is not even a magister or member of a imperium circle, its a pity that Felix dies and not him). Blackwall(who is noone and not a real greywarden officer, and lelianna even know it). Sera. Cole have zero sense to be Inquisitor companion, they are noone and not valuable to be them
Vivienne have some amount of loyalists mages and some political influence, she is optional, she is more uselfull as Vinn was for Grey warden still not as valuable as Fionna
Bull have a mini army of mercenaries and he is spy from Qunari who give us info, he is optional, even have a role in main story-treespacer and his fate have influence on many Tal-Vashots
DAI have plenty of guys who is not where they need to be and many of them are forced to be with us no matter what even that was not make sense
No, there are not "many." The only followers that are "forced" on the player are the three we start out with at the beginning of the game: Cassandra, Varric, and Solas. Those are recruited by default, so the player has no choice. But every single other follower in the entire game is OPTIONAL. With all of them you can refuse recruitment, and some have the option to kick them out afterward.
Solas is our musthave cos he is the only dreamer mage and save us from destruction of our mark, damn he is the only one with later morrigan who say and give info about everything what we and Inquisition really need, he give us support. power and skyhold
Varrick is ultraneutral who is not care about who we are and our decidions exept save the world and he have his peoples everywhere, he is our all-thedas spy and trade network and he with hawke was deal with coryfeus and have info about red lyrium.....sure that he would be in next game to be the storyteller of Keep
others who we must have does not have this influence and value
Cassandra-cos she was command some peoples before many of them die and we take full controll, her forced position as our companion was understandable only before we have our own alliances and crush the breach and have skyhold, after she do nothing and can be drunk and be mad at us, we kill lord seeker with other seekers and thats all
Lelianna
Josephine
Cullen
Mother Giselle
so what "choice" we have in the game
Bull
Vivienne
Dorian
Blackwall
Sera
Cole
Vivienne and Bull are the only ones who are not a noone and total useless, and even they are not needed at all and just a addicional minor alliances who is like we have in agents,
those 2 are actually more valuable than lelianna and josephine, cullen
and yeah Vivienne have content of becoming divine but is is almost our own support and in the beginning we can not see that path as with divine cassandra and lelianna
Also, you mentioned that this level of diversity takes away from your immersion. You know what ruins my immersion? Feeling like people like me don't (or aren't allowed to) exist in a fantasy video game world.
Dragons and magic? Fine. RL minorities? HERESY.
You're turning my words around what bugs me is that ALL these "minorities" are present directly around the Inquisitor. As I said I do not mind the diversity that includes whatever minority you count yourself a part of. I always feel as though speaking about "minorities" is a touchy subject. Ultimately the fact is I try to compare the DA:I world with the real world and these minoriteies ARE minorities and thus unlikely to be ALL present among the main cast of characters is what I am saying. Your feeling victimized when you are not even attacked only emphasizes how insecure you are and does not add to the discussion, but that's probably my fault as I said I tend to be clumsy with my words.
And about the previous DA and DA2, yes all these diverse races and sexual orientation and so on were present one way or another but not ALL of them as part of the main cast of characters. But as Witch Cocktor mentionned and I've thought about that too it is possible that these aren't minorities at all in Thedas. The thing is that is never clearly explained and thus I compare as I said previously with the real world. It does sound unlikely though that there would be no minorities at all. What they could have done is reverse the majorities and minorities or just switch some and not others now that might be interestng though it would probably cause some troubles with story making. Ultimately I think we always imagine things on the basis of the world we live in we rarely just think of something that comes outta nowhere. Managing to write a story with that context would probably be quite a feat IMHO.
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