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[Biotic Apostate]

In DnD universe you always can find everything close enought and could create any bizzarre and halfthat-halfthat creature and play it if game master agree. the other question would be how the hell he is there and how become a hero in this story...DnD almost does not care a bit about explanation and reaction of who you are and others

 

this is new disney canon of star wars, and bio with makeb add some of them, before in the whole starwars there was only straight relationship for childmaking and a hutts hermaphrodites and insectoid race with many genders as "minorities"...about pigmentation(let be clear that there is no "whites" "asians" and "blacks" "latinos" in star wars) there is so many different races in starwars especially humanlike that noone care and they are like twileks everywere almost on each planets with millions peoples who migrate and migrate and migrates everytime they wanted, thats not the same as with many universes and it always was since first starwars films and books. comics

 

Witcher universe in dark medieval setting have a very rare amount bisexuals-lesbians if you are about this minorites who mostly only a old mages males and females and Ciri as a main hero, "dark skinned asians" exist there but they far far away and we see few of them in books and kinda many(if we can understand simple truth that lands where we have game story are far far away from those there they can be seen commonly) in Witcher games

 

the problem is when you create some char or add anything(like elephants and zebra in show wasteland) you kinda need his history and explanation, this is senseles and less realistic to add everything, and this ruins game universe

 

in DAI as i can see and what makes author of this tread confused and talk about political correction, that there is a problem with to many "rivanies" in the ferelden and orlais lands there they are no common but for some reason and this is not explanated they are in DAi even that 10 years ago in DAO they were not at least in ferelden, i am not talk about Vivienne who have full explanation of how and where, i ma talk about others like Denet mother Giselle and others

 

about non-straits peoples this is Orlais lands and they as Antivans always was stated to have much into this sinse the beginning of DA, stil this is strange to not give any reaction for such things from non-orlesians like there was in DAO and Zevran have talk about such and we have Ogren reaction and others, in DAI only Mother Giselle have something very small and mostly about tevinter mage stuff

 

Qun(i am not consider Bull words as truth since Sten and lore was said how it worked). Tevinter must be another story there such relationships were not tolerated much and this would be silly to show racism and nazionalistic, religion. magictolerance stuff of  Thedas nations cultute but not other sides...Dorian story already are kind of stupid and all that whine not make sense if noone was really care about who he was and with who he do romance as with Crem would be about a woman who was go to army and pretended, lie that she is a male until it was discovered

 

Many characters were really not suited to be together, to be as Inquisition companions and Inquisitor always have his herald and orlais chantry stuff no matter what and who we are, even after we know the truth about elven powers

DnD does not care about that, because it's main point is giving the player the freedom to create their own character. 

 

Whether you like it or not, there is no Disney canon, there is Star Wars canon, if you choose to disregard anything Disney has done with it, it's your choice, doesn't change the fact that it is canon. 

 

The Witcher is constrained by what the author has created, and the author didn't care about including sexual or racial minorities.

 

Bioware created the world with minorities from the start, it's not like adding a zebra in snow. Rivaini people were there in DAO and DA2, and the country itself is on a peninsula (easy access to seas), they have a lot of merchant vessels to trade with other countries, and most pirates come from there. It makes a lot of sense that they would be seen in every country. And there's not a lot of them in DAI. We had Duncan in Origins, Isabella in 2, and Vivienne in Inquisition. There is zero information about where Denet and Giselle are from. And Giselle has an orlesian accent.

 

I have no idea what point you are trying to make with lgbt people in Ferelden. The codex states that it is normal everywhere, Ferelden doesn't like when it is too public, but otherwise no one cares there, and Tevinter discourages it, because bloodlines are the most sacred thing. (That's why Dorian's story made sense in showing how Tevinter operates) That's it. And Krem is in Bull's team - that's why there is no limit to who is supposed to be in it.

 

The Inquisition is almost forgotten when it comes back in the recent game, there are no rules on how it is supposed to be structured internally, and the inquisitor has the right to include anyone he wants to.

[Biotic Apostate]

I've read all of the novels that have been published in English as well as the short story collections. While I cannot speak to what Sapkowski has said or stated in interviews there is bisexual sex and romance in his novels (Ciri has a girlfriend and gay sex) as well as a very liberal attitude towards abortion and women's rights for a Polish Catholic writer (Geralt is very clearly for abortion as a woman's right and there are several pages devoted to that in an early story). There are also mentions of other races trading in Geralt's world and existing. I'd also point out that racial issues are addressed in how the relationships between humans and others are dealt with and Sapkowski does not betray any supremacist notions in his handling of that.

 

I really hate the whole "world of the Witcher" argument that came up this summer anyway. Whole legions of fools arguing that there shouldn't be darker people because this was European, blah, blah, blah. European only in the most tertiary ways unless you really think people hunted wyverns in Europe at one time! Sapkowski also blended in other mythologies into his stories and not just Eastern European. There is a fair bit of Celtic mythology in his tales as well as German/ French "fairy tales." I was so glad when Hearts of Stone came out and CDPR put a race in that borrowed a fair bit from Arabia so that maybe all that blah, blah, blah will stop now!

I tend to treat the work and the author as completely separate. There is nothing really in the Witcher world that would say that the author is a racist. But I dislike Sapkowski based on his interviews and public appearances.

 

I still think that people who had such an aggressive reaction to the mere thought of including a black character are at least a little racist and had a convenient excuse this time.

[Fylimar]

I think, everyone in Thedas has a reason to help whatever fraction, that is going to stop the rifts, therefore I can see, why people like Sera, Vivienne, Dorian... work together, even if they would never do so in normal circumstances. And besides the rifts, there is the mage/templar war and the inquisition tries to find a solution for that too. As Mother Giselle explained in one of the very first quests and as you can see in a very sad sidequest (with that elven woman, who lost her husband, because templars confused him with a mage): every one is caught in that fight -  to a point, where even once sympathetic people can't understand it any more. So I guess joining the inquisition is kind of self preservation and many of your companions tell you so, if you ask them (Sera for example). 

And as for their racial/Sexual/cultural differences: I really like it, it makes the game world seem bigger and more alive. And of course we gamers are all different, so they give each to his/her taste. Why not? If you don't like a specific companion for whatever reason, it's ok, there are enough to fill the gap.

 

I don't think you can compare a fantasy world with our medieval world. And it would make maybe for a more 'realistic' play, but it would be less fun. In Thedas women have the same rights as men, why not? And they already are racists, when it comes to elfs and mages, so why add skin colour to it. And you have religious misunderstandings: When you play a non-Andrastian inquisitor, you have to constantly remind Cassandra & Co, that you don't believe in the maker (I played a dwarf and an elf so far). They do not hold that against you, but still, they pop up the question very often. So some things are very realistic. 

I saw what happened in other (Bioware) games, if you don't give people enough companion/li choices: In Baldurs Gate you have tons of companion mods to add every race, sexual preference, culture etc. you can imagine (and some you probably can't imagine, there are beholder companions and the like around ... even a mindflayer, if I remember correctly). SO I guess, it was kind of gift from the developers to actually give us that diversity in companions. Just look at some old threads in the suggestion section, what kind of companions people wished fo future games - there is a big palette and I guess, the devs just tried to please the majority. And I think, it works - all companions are interesting. I don't like all in the same way, but none of them are boring. I love the conversations.

[AFA]

The only "PC" thing that bothered me was the Qunari being totally cool with trans people retcon, but that topic has been covered in detail elsewhere. Some of it came across as heavy-handed (Dorian's quest)

 

I think some things that people labeled as political correctness may have just been bad design choices. 

[Geth Supremacy]

The only "PC" thing that bothered me was the Qunari being totally cool with trans people retcon, but that topic has been covered in detail elsewhere. Some of it came across as heavy-handed (Dorian's quest)

 

I think some things that people labeled as political correctness may have just been bad design choices. 

 

I felt like it was just a checklist that had to be met.

[vertigomez]

It's not a retcon just because you couldn't conceive of it.

[Rogue Unit]

Shut up crybaby. You're breaking my immersion.

[Xilizhra]

It's not a retcon just because you couldn't conceive of it.

Eh. The only way it's not a retcon is if the qunari would, say, declare Aveline or Cassandra to be aqun-athlok. The part that doesn't jive with the Qun is the part where you get to make a choice.

[Elhanan]

I felt like it was just a checklist that had to be met.

While I am not personally fond of Dorian's quest due to language, I did not even encounter it in my initial campaign. And that Dwarven Rogue Inq and Dorian seem to have as close a friendship as the others.

Sorry; checklist does not appear to be required.

[The Loyal Nub]

I tend to treat the work and the author as completely separate. There is nothing really in the Witcher world that would say that the author is a racist. But I dislike Sapkowski based on his interviews and public appearances.

 

I still think that people who had such an aggressive reaction to the mere thought of including a black character are at least a little racist and had a convenient excuse this time.

 

Right. I can't speak to how Sapkowski is in public but in his novels there is no overt racism. But you did say there were not lgbt romances and that's not correct. Ciri has a gay romance in the saga. I just had to point that out. There is even in Witcher 3 dialogue options for her to say she is into women and the hint in one scene in Novigrad that she might be intimate with oneirimancer and a barmaid. I wondered how many players resented this as a BioWare style thing without having read the novels or knowing that Ciri has had relationships with women and that is canon.

[Jedi Comedian]

Right. I can't speak to how Sapkowski is in public but in his novels there is no overt racism. But you did say there were not lgbt romances and that's not correct. Ciri has a gay romance in the saga. I just had to point that out. There is even in Witcher 3 dialogue options for her to say she is into women and the hint in one scene in Novigrad that she might be intimate with oneirimancer and a barmaid. I wondered how many players resented this as a BioWare style thing without having read the novels or knowing that Ciri has had relationships with women and that is canon.

[Jedi Comedian]

There was a gay romance in TW2: Phillipa and Cynthia, OH WAIT, it was made as goddamm fanservice.

I doubt the book is any different.

[Setitimer]

Well, let's be real, Dorian is just Gaider's Mary Sue, and the whole time travel thing was his Doctor Who wish fulfillment.  So to that extent it makes sense he's there.

 

For the rest, yeah, the amount of PC is just idiotic.  Easily half of the relationships you witness or hear about are same-sex.  The empress, the scout with her apostate friend in the Hinterlands, random Grey Warden diaries lying around, etc etc.  It's to the point where every time I meet someone pining for a missing spouse or lover I assume it's a gay relationship.  And the game goes out of its way to avoid any kind of "heteronormatism": other than a few specific instances, there are no children around, and hardly anyone seems to be married.  And, of course, half the soldiers are women, there is basically no gender-specific division of labor (which I guess explains the lack of children?) etc.  It's a nonsense world that can't work and bears no resemblance to a real life medieval setting.

 

All of which would be OK if DA had always been like this.  But it's really jarring to go from DA:O, which was a gritty and somewhat realistic medieval setting, to this world where every minority has to be represented as equal to everyone else and where nothing triggering or traumatizing can ever happen.

[vertigomez]

Eh. The only way it's not a retcon is if the qunari would, say, declare Aveline or Cassandra to be aqun-athlok. The part that doesn't jive with the Qun is the part where you get to make a choice.

They kind of do. Cassandra asks if Bull sees her as a man according to that line of thought, and he says it depends on if she's in her armor (that is, being a warrior) or not.

[The Loyal Nub]

There was a gay romance in TW2: Phillipa and Cynthia, OH WAIT, it was made as goddamm fanservice.

I doubt the book is any different.

 

Since the books were written before the games and when the audience was primarily Polish speakers it would be impossible to say for certain. But it doesn't change the fact that gay romances are in his writings and he also handles sexuality far differently than cdpr did. Geralt really doesn't live it up with prostitutes like he does in the games-now that was entirely fan service but the audience was far different than the literary one.

[Elhanan]

They kind of do. Cassandra asks if Bull sees her as a man according to that line of thought, and he says it depends on if she's in her armor (that is, being a warrior) or not.

The Iron Bull's opinion does not appear to speak for the Qun itself. And as one that is cast in an undercover role, that opinion is questionable as being truthful.

[Setitimer]

Right. I can't speak to how Sapkowski is in public but in his novels there is no overt racism. But you did say there were not lgbt romances and that's not correct. Ciri has a gay romance in the saga. I just had to point that out. There is even in Witcher 3 dialogue options for her to say she is into women and the hint in one scene in Novigrad that she might be intimate with oneirimancer and a barmaid. I wondered how many players resented this as a BioWare style thing without having read the novels or knowing that Ciri has had relationships with women and that is canon.

 

In "Blood of Elves" it states explicitly that Triss Merigold had same-sex romances in the past.  And of course while the books don't present racism between humans, there is obvious hatred between the various humanoid races (humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings) which is certainly a proxy for human racism.  Sapkowski presents this very well in some cases, e.g. Dudu and the plight of the Dopplers who have just about been wiped out.

 

In general the Witcher world doesn't go out of its way to exclude homosexuality or races, it just handles them realistically for a setting that is basically medieval Poland and eastern Europe.

[The Loyal Nub]

In "Blood of Elves" it states explicitly that Triss Merigold had same-sex romances in the past.  And of course while the books don't present racism between humans, there is obvious hatred between the various humanoid races (humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings) which is certainly a proxy for human racism.  Sapkowski presents this very well in some cases, e.g. Dudu and the plight of the Dopplers who have just about been wiped out.

 

In general the Witcher world doesn't go out of its way to exclude homosexuality or races, it just handles them realistically for a setting that is basically medieval Poland and eastern Europe.

 

I said in an earlier post there was racism between humans and elves but I wasn't clear here and I meant only that he did not present real world racism in his books or advocate racism as a good thing.

 

But that's probably enough about the Witcher. I'll only say the books are worth reading and are a little bit different than the games in some respects although Witcher 3 came the closest to capturing/getting the mood right.

[Xilizhra]

Well, let's be real, Dorian is just Gaider's Mary Sue, and the whole time travel thing was his Doctor Who wish fulfillment.  So to that extent it makes sense he's there.

Does anyone actually know the definition of Mary Sue anymore?

 

 

For the rest, yeah, the amount of PC is just idiotic.  Easily half of the relationships you witness or hear about are same-sex.  The empress, the scout with her apostate friend in the Hinterlands, random Grey Warden diaries lying around, etc etc.  It's to the point where every time I meet someone pining for a missing spouse or lover I assume it's a gay relationship. 

How many diaries are those? And tell me about your "etc" claims.

 

 

And the game goes out of its way to avoid any kind of "heteronormatism": other than a few specific instances, there are no children around, and hardly anyone seems to be married.

How many people were married in previous DA games? Was that number higher than in this?

 

 

And, of course, half the soldiers are women, there is basically no gender-specific division of labor (which I guess explains the lack of children?) etc.  It's a nonsense world that can't work and bears no resemblance to a real life medieval setting.

Aside from the idea that a gender-specific division of labor is required for children to exist is utterly ludicrous... Thedas has literate peasants, standardized currency, transport reliable enough that large, surviving refugee populations are visible, and gorram magic. It was never intended to be a real-life medieval setting.

 

 

All of which would be OK if DA had always been like this.  But it's really jarring to go from DA:O, which was a gritty and somewhat realistic medieval setting, to this world where every minority has to be represented as equal to everyone else and where nothing triggering or traumatizing can ever happen.

No it wasn't. And as for "nothing triggering or traumatizing can ever happen..." I don't think you actually played the game. I mean, it included an attempt at gay conversion therapy.

[Setitimer]

Eh. The only way it's not a retcon is if the qunari would, say, declare Aveline or Cassandra to be aqun-athlok. The part that doesn't jive with the Qun is the part where you get to make a choice.

 

The whole thing is an obvious retcon.  Here is a direct quote from DA:O:

• Sten: Why are you here?
• Leliana: What do you mean?
• Sten: Women are priests, artisans, farmers or shopkeepers. None of them have any place in fighting.
• Leliana: I have no idea how to answer this...
• Sten: It is not done. There is no more to it.
• Leliana: Do you mean your people have no female mages or warriors?
• Sten: Of course not. Why would our women wish to be men?
• Leliana: What are you talking about? They don't wish to be men.
• Sten: They shouldn't. That can only lead to frustration.
• Leliana: Sten...no, never mind. Let's drop this.

There's similar dialogue with Sten if you play a female warrior, he thinks you're defying your destiny and he doesn't understand why you would take that role or why society lets you do it.

 

Of course, that's not just the Qunari.  The beginning of the HF warrior origin has a whole conversation where Teyrn Cousland talks about his "fierce girl" and Arl Howe seems disgusted by the entire prospect of letting a woman, and especially a noblewoman, be a soldier.  But where it's rare among humans, obviously for the Qunari it's practically inconceivable.

[vertigomez]

The Iron Bull's opinion does not appear to speak for the Qun itself. And as one that is cast in an undercover role, that opinion is questionable as being truthful.

Bull's opinion doesn't... but Sten's does, even though he explicitly says it's not his place to try to explain the Qun to an outsider?

The whole thing is an obvious retcon. Here is a direct quote from DA:O:

• Sten: Why are you here?
• Leliana: What do you mean?
• Sten: Women are priests, artisans, farmers or shopkeepers. None of them have any place in fighting.
• Leliana: I have no idea how to answer this...
• Sten: It is not done. There is no more to it.
• Leliana: Do you mean your people have no female mages or warriors?
• Sten: Of course not. Why would our women wish to be men?
• Leliana: What are you talking about? They don't wish to be men.
• Sten: They shouldn't. That can only lead to frustration.
• Leliana: Sten...no, never mind. Let's drop this.

There's similar dialogue with Sten if you play a female warrior, he thinks you're defying your destiny and he doesn't understand why you would take that role or why society lets you do it.

Of course, that's not just the Qunari. The beginning of the HF warrior origin has a whole conversation where Teyrn Cousland talks about his "fierce girl" and Arl Howe seems disgusted by the entire prospect of letting a woman, and especially a noblewoman, be a soldier. But where it's rare among humans, obviously for the Qunari it's practically inconceivable.

Sten doesn't understand how a woman can be a warrior and still identify as a woman. That's the disconnect. You're looking at it through your own cultural lens, not his.

[Joseph Warrick]

Perhaps Inquisition would have been a better game if Cole hated black people. Or Iron Bull should have raped Leliana. Hey, this is a mature game for adults right? Rape always makes things better. Can't work out a plotline? Rape a woman. Edgy twenty-somethings will love you for it.

 

I'd recommend the short story "Houston, Houston, do you read?" which features a distant future all-women society that stumbles upon the three last men. After a short time watching them self-destruct, they decide not to resurrect the XY variant. Now that's a story we're not going to see in a videogame anytime soon.

[Shechinah]

The only "PC" thing that bothered me was the Qunari being totally cool with trans people retcon, but that topic has been covered in detail elsewhere. Some of it came across as heavy-handed (Dorian's quest)

 

I am going to be participating in debates about this topic for a very long time, ain't it?
 

[Iakus]

Bull's opinion doesn't... but Sten's does, even though he explicitly says it's not his place to try to explain the Qun to an outsider?


Sten doesn't understand how a woman can be a warrior and still identify as a woman. That's the disconnect. You're looking at it through your own cultural lens, not his.

Except IB says that Cullen and Cassandra would likely operate fine under the Qun assuming they didn't die in combat.

[Elhanan]

Well, let's be real, Dorian is just Gaider's Mary Sue, and the whole time travel thing was his Doctor Who wish fulfillment.  So to that extent it makes sense he's there.
 
For the rest, yeah, the amount of PC is just idiotic.  Easily half of the relationships you witness or hear about are same-sex.  The empress, the scout with her apostate friend in the Hinterlands, random Grey Warden diaries lying around, etc etc.  It's to the point where every time I meet someone pining for a missing spouse or lover I assume it's a gay relationship.  And the game goes out of its way to avoid any kind of "heteronormatism": other than a few specific instances, there are no children around, and hardly anyone seems to be married.  And, of course, half the soldiers are women, there is basically no gender-specific division of labor (which I guess explains the lack of children?) etc.  It's a nonsense world that can't work and bears no resemblance to a real life medieval setting.
 
All of which would be OK if DA had always been like this.  But it's really jarring to go from DA:O, which was a gritty and somewhat realistic medieval setting, to this world where every minority has to be represented as equal to everyone else and where nothing triggering or traumatizing can ever happen.

One should not assume....

DA is not a medieval setting; tis one of fantasy with Elves, Dwarves, Qunari, and more. Armor and arms, keeps and castles alone do not such a setting make.

And 'easily half' seems to be somewhat biased, and statistically incorrect. As mentioned, one should 'be real'. DAO also had it's share of representation (eg; Human Noble Warden, Leliana, Zev), though the lore and environment was not as detailed, but this was the founding story.

Objectively, it would appear that this criticism is slanted.