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[vertigomez]

Except IB says that Cullen and Cassandra would likely operate fine under the Qun assuming they didn't die in combat.

Yep. And they'd stick her in the antaam and treat her like a dude.

[Shechinah]

Of course, that's not just the Qunari.  The beginning of the HF warrior origin has a whole conversation where Teyrn Cousland talks about his "fierce girl" and Arl Howe seems disgusted by the entire prospect of letting a woman, and especially a noblewoman, be a soldier.  But where it's rare among humans, obviously for the Qunari it's practically inconceivable.

 

Except, as far as I can tell, it is not a rare thing as even in Dragon Age: Origins, there were women in military positions and they were never frowned upon which suggests it is less a cultural thing and more of an Arl Howe thing which would fit with what I believe I recall about his homelife.
 

[Setitimer]

Except IB says that Cullen and Cassandra would likely operate fine under the Qun assuming they didn't die in combat.

 

Yes, but that's because DA:I retcons the Qun.  The Qun as presented in DA:O would never accept Cassandra, or a female Cousland warrior, or Krem.

[Iakus]

 I mean, it included an attempt at gay conversion therapy.

You mean Dorian's father's blood magic thing?  Pretty sure that was an attempt to make him amenable to marrying the woman they had picked out for him.  Not to actually change his sexuality.  

[Elhanan]

Bull's opinion doesn't... but Sten's does, even though he explicitly says it's not his place to try to explain the Qun to an outsider?....

And yet Sten also can later accept a female Warden and Shale. It is his opinion, too; not the actual Qun itself.

[Iakus]

Yep. And they'd stick her in the antaam and treat her like a dude.

Yet she clearly identifies herself as a woman, though.

[KaiserShep]

It's kind of wierd though because he's complimentary if you're a rogue.

Well, let's be real, Dorian is just Gaider's Mary Sue, and the whole time travel thing was his Doctor Who wish fulfillment.  So to that extent it makes sense he's there.

I'd be curious to know the criteria Dorian meets to qualify as a Marty Stu. At the most, one might argue that Dorian's personal quest is akin to an author insert, but he never saves the day, or is admired by everyone. He certainly didn't wish to travel through time. Before the breach, he merely theorized on the concept with Alexius, who was really the one invested in accomplishing it.

To be perfectly frank, I think too many people in this forum misunderstand the concept of a Mary Sue.
 

For the rest, yeah, the amount of PC is just idiotic.  Easily half of the relationships you witness or hear about are same-sex.  The empress, the scout with her apostate friend in the Hinterlands, random Grey Warden diaries lying around, etc etc.  It's to the point where every time I meet someone pining for a missing spouse or lover I assume it's a gay relationship.  And the game goes out of its way to avoid any kind of "heteronormatism": other than a few specific instances, there are no children around, and hardly anyone seems to be married.  And, of course, half the soldiers are women, there is basically no gender-specific division of labor (which I guess explains the lack of children?) etc.  It's a nonsense world that can't work and bears no resemblance to a real life medieval setting.
 
All of which would be OK if DA had always been like this.  But it's really jarring to go from DA:O, which was a gritty and somewhat realistic medieval setting, to this world where every minority has to be represented as equal to everyone else and where nothing triggering or traumatizing can ever happen.

DA was always like this from the very beginning. If anything, Howe's criticism of a female Cousland warrior contradicts the description of the gender info right in the character creator, which specifically states that women typically are equals in the military.

[YourFunnyUncle]

Except as far as I can tell it is not a rare thing as even in Dragon Age: Origins, there were women in military positions and they were never frowned upon which suggests it is less a cultural thing and more of an Arl Howe thing.

Indeed. I seem to recall fighting a particularly powerful female warrior in Arl Howe's house, actually...

[KaiserShep]

Ser Cauthrien's a beast. Anyway, if you walk around Ostagar, female soldiers are everywhere.

[Elhanan]

Indeed. I seem to recall fighting a particularly powerful female warrior in Arl Howe's house, actually...

Also voiced by Alix....

[vertigomez]

Yes, but that's because DA:I retcons the Qun.  The Qun as presented in DA:O would never accept Cassandra, or a female Cousland warrior, or Krem.

Or maybe you made assumptions about the Qun based on your own flawed understanding?

You mean Dorian's father's blood magic thing?  Pretty sure that was an attempt to make him amenable to marrying the woman they had picked out for him.  Not to actually change his sexuality.

He says "he tried to... change me." Pretty clear allegory.

And yet Sten also can later accept a female Warden and Shale. It is his opinion, too; not the actual Qun itself.

And then he goes back to be re-educated.

Yet she clearly identifies herself as a woman, though.

But her talents make her a man, according to the Qun.

[Xilizhra]

You mean Dorian's father's blood magic thing?  Pretty sure that was an attempt to make him amenable to marrying the woman they had picked out for him.  Not to actually change his sexuality.  

No, I'm pretty sure it was to actually change his sexuality.

[Jedi Comedian]

I think the Inquisitor is the Mary Sue of DAI.

I didn't like Dorian because his story is about homophobia and I would prefer a fearsome, ruthless gay character because we have gotten almost NONE in modern fiction. I don't want to be remembered of the bigotry of real life ignorant sheep-shaggers while I am in Thedas, where there is no need to advocate for LGBT Rights.

[Elhanan]

And then he goes back to be re-educated.

Sten re-educated? Pls link the reference, as I do not recall this info.

[Elhanan]

I think the Inquisitor is the Mary Sue of DAI.

I didn't like Dorian because his story is about homophobia and I would prefer a fearsome, ruthless gay character because we have gotten almost NONE in modern fiction. I don't want to be remembered of the bigotry of real life ignorant sheep-shaggers while I am in Thedas, where we have no need to advocate for LGBT Rights.

And that perspective seems to be optional at best, as one can play the game and not discover this info.

[Jedi Comedian]

It worked in TW3 with Mislav (given the nature of the setting), but I do not want to see it in Thedas.

[Iakus]

Yes, but that's because DA:I retcons the Qun.  The Qun as presented in DA:O would never accept Cassandra, or a female Cousland warrior, or Krem.

 

I try to chalk it up to IB lying to himself.  He wants to believe that Krem and the other Chargers would find acceptance among is people when they inevitably take over Thedas.  But it's wishful thinking.  He even admits to trying not to think about what would happen to mages he knows.

 
But her talents make her a man, according to the Qun.

See, this is the kind of thing that should make the Qun so alien, and potentially hostile to humanity.  The lack of personal identity and freedom to choose who you want to be.  But the QUn appears to have been altered to make it more sympathetic and, well, human.

 

Cassandra is clearly a woman, but has a role that the Qun would peg her as male.  SOmething has to give, to their way of thinking.

[Jedi Comedian]

And that perspective seems to be optional at best, as one can play the game and not discover this info.

[vertigomez]

Sten re-educated? Pls link the reference, as I do not recall this info.

You think they made him the Arishok when he returned home, no questions asked, without seeing whether or not the bas had contaminated his mind?

[Shechinah]

You mean Dorian's father's blood magic thing?  Pretty sure that was an attempt to make him amenable to marrying the woman they had picked out for him.  Not to actually change his sexuality.  

 

Inquisitor: "He tried to change you?"

Dorian Pavus: "Out of desperation. I wouldn't put on a show, marry the girl, keeping everything unsavory private and locked away. Selfish, I suppose, not to want to spend my entire life screaming on the inside. He was going to do a blood ritual. Alter my mind. Make me.... acceptable. I found out, I left"

 

The conflict would still have occured even if Dorian had been heterosexual and he had been opposed to marrying someone to further a bloodline legacy which I consider to be plausible given that I believe we learn his parents are not especially keen on each other. I am assuming that the blood magic would force Dorian to become acceptable to the marital proposal since otherwise Halward would be very shortsighted in assuming that Dorian's sexuality were the only reason he would oppose marriage.  

 

Inquisitor: "Can blood magic actually do that?"

Dorian Pavus: "Maybe. It could also have left me a drooling vegetable. It crushed me to think he found that absurd risk preferable to scandal"

 

There's some nightmare fuel right there: A beloved and trusted parent secretly planning to use a method of mind control on you against your will that could potentially render you a vegetable. Talk about paranoia fuel as well.    

 

 

[Elhanan]

You think they made him the Arishok when he returned home, no questions asked, without seeing whether or not the bas had contaminated his mind?

I try not to assume as a rule.

[Iakus]

No, I'm pretty sure it was to actually change his sexuality.

Tevinter doesn't seem to care about sexuality, as long as you're willing to play the role you're given (Geez, Tevinter sounds like the Qun, doesn't it?)  As long as Dorian was willing to marry the woman who would bring prestige to House Parvus, and father a child to continue the Imperium's eugenics program, nobody would care what he does in his private life.

 

But Dorian was not willing to play along.  He wanted his own life

[vertigomez]

See, this is the kind of thing that should make the Qun so alien, and potentially hostile to humanity.  The lack of personal identity and freedom to choose who you want to be.  But the QUn appears to have been altered to make it more sympathetic and, well, human.
 
Cassandra is vlearly a woman, but has a role that the Qun would peg her as male.  SOmething has to give, to their way of thinking.

Of course something has to give. She IS a formidable warrior, and warriors are men, so she wouldn't be permitted to think of herself as a woman. It's the same way the Qunari treat mage Hawke - not a mage, just a basalit-an with phenomenal cosmic power at his/her fingertips. David Gaider calls it a certain kind of "willful ignorance" that the Qunari are very good at.

[Jedi Comedian]

Even if we ignore Dorian's personal quest, the whole papa Pavus thing did happened at Tevinter (I would have slit the old bugger's throat wide open if we were allowed to).

[Iakus]

Of course something has to give. She IS a formidable warrior, and warriors are men, so she wouldn't be permitted to think of herself as a woman. It's the same way the Qunari treat mage Hawke - not a mage, just a basalit-an with phenomenal cosmic power at his/her fingertips. David Gaider calls it a certain kind of "willful ignorance" that the Qunari are very good at.

If something has to give, then Cassandra would not do well under the Qun, whatever IB says.  SHe would either have to give up the sword and become a farmer or something (COuld you imagine her making disgusted noises at a field of potatoes?) or be "re-educated" to identify as a man.