158 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Not just you, Xil, but apparently "realism" means conforming to standard human body proportions, and in a fantasy realm of magic, demons and dragons, skinny elves are just pushing things too far.

It's not about human proportions so much as it is it aesthetic: if your going to create something that's fundantally human in body plan - and elves are absolutely human in their body plan, and there are people IRL who are that skinny - you need to at least avoid making your character look sickly or absurd.

[YourFunnyUncle]

It's not about human proportions so much as it is it aesthetic: if your going to create something that's fundantally human in body plan - and elves are absolutely human in their body plan, and there are people IRL who are that skinny - you need to at least avoid making your character look sickly or absurd.

They are a supposed to be a different humanoid species, not humans. A minute watching them run, fight and do everything that a well-fed organism can do shows that they are clearly neither ill nor malnourished. What you are saying boils down to nothing more than anthropocentric nonsense based on failure of imagination.

Edit: But I do agree that it's about aesthetics. It's just that you're superimposing real-world aesthetics on a fantasy species, which to me makes little sense.

[nightscrawl]

^ I'm sorry, but that argument doesn't hold up. Even if they were sickly and whatnot, they wouldn't have unique combat animations. Bioware consistently uses the same animations for everyone, so the elves moving and doing "everything that a well-fed organism can do" is not significant, as does everyone in the game(s).

[YourFunnyUncle]

^ I'm sorry, but that argument doesn't hold up. Even if they were sickly and whatnot, they wouldn't have unique combat animations. Bioware consistently uses the same animations for everyone, so the elves moving and doing "everything that a well-fed organism can do" is not significant, as does everyone in the game(s).

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not talking just about combat animations, I'm talking about all the elves represented in the game in all scenes. They are shown as perfectly healthy and living their lives. They are clearly not ill or starving. You might make an argument that some servant elves might be underfed, but there are plenty enough elves of higher standing to give the lie to that.

[In Exile]

They are a supposed to be a different humanoid species, not humans. A minute watching them run, fight and do everything that a well-fed organism can do shows that they are clearly neither ill nor malnourished. What you are saying boils down to nothing more than anthropocentric nonsense based on failure of imagination.

Edit: But I do agree that it's about aesthetics. It's just that you're superimposing real-world aesthetics on a fantasy species, which to me makes little sense.

I don't understand your point. I'm not saying the elves are sickly. I'm saying they look sickly. The complaint about appearance is solely about their aesthetic by definition. The very idea of an elf is anthropomorphic, because they're just humans with pointy ears. Making them a bit skinnier - which again is not different from how some actual humans are actually built - doesn't change the image they convey.

The idea that we should judge the aesthetic by any other standard is nonsense - a non sequitur. It's the equivalent of saying that the elves are ugly because they're not abulatory turds, which is well recognised to be the most alluring form on the planet Zorbkalz 99.

[YourFunnyUncle]

I don't understand your point. I'm not saying the elves are sickly. I'm saying they look sickly. The complaint about appearance is solely about their aesthetic by definition. The very idea of an elf is anthropomorphic, because they're just humans with pointy ears. Making them a bit skinnier - which again is not different from how some actual humans are actually built - doesn't change the image they convey.

The idea that we should judge the aesthetic by any other standard is nonsense - a non sequitur. It's the equivalent of saying that the elves are ugly because they're not abulatory turds, which is well recognised to be the most alluring form on the planet Zorbkalz 99.

 

All I'm saying is that it takes nothing more that a tiny bit of imagination to get from "Ugh! they look like skinny humans!" to accepting that it's the way that elves are in the DA universe and moving on. Getting hung up on human aesthetics seems odd to me in a fantasy world.

 

I think it's a good thing that they have a different body plan precisely because it makes them visually unique and not just "humans with pointy ears". The Dwarves and Qunari are clearly distinct from humans. Why shouldn't the Elves be?

 

All that said, as I stated earlier, I'd welcome a bigger amount of variation in body size within each species, To an extent we see it already in the companion characters. It's been noted in this thread that Solas doesn't quite have the same body as other male elves, but also Sera's body seems to be a very slightly skinnier version of the human female one, and Iron Bull has a different shape to the standard Qunari, as evidenced by the "Spoils of the Qunari" DLC armors initially failing to work on him. It would be nice if they could extend that to accommodate more variation among the minor NPCs of each species, and of course in the way that the protagonist looks. Being able to bulk up a warrior elf a little, or indeed make a human or Qunari mage thinner wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

Edit: Of course that would involve BioWare committing a lot of development resources to such a system, which would probably give them problems with their cinematics too...

[vertigomez]

I wanna know what's up with the elves and facial hair. I figured they'd be smooth like dolphins, but Sarel, Fenris, and even some (unmodded, I think??) male Lavellans have random stubble or a five o' clock shadow going on. Wtf?

[DreamSever]

I wanna know what's up with the elves and facial hair. I figured they'd be smooth like dolphins, but Sarel, Fenris, and even some (unmodded, I think??) male Lavellans have random stubble or a five o' clock shadow going on. Wtf?

Wish they did tbf my elves look 15 and it breaks immersion

[JJDXB]

Elves can have facial hair I think.  I might be confusing it with LOTR. 
 

But the vast majority cannot even have stubble and i think are more or less "hairless" below the neck.  I mean, so are all the other races in game, but like in lore not supposed to have much hair save for above the nose.

 

I suppose this doesn't help with their twinkiness.

 

As far as bodies go, all they need to do is make there shoulders a little wider.  I don't think the joint can really work with the arms right by the sides if the shoulders are that thin.  They've got a similar thing going on with the leg joint.  It feels the body wasn't designed to have the legs directly underneath, it's more like you'd find on quadrupedal animals.  It certainly makes them look unique though, it's got a more ethereal, branching tree like definition to it.

[nightscrawl]

I wanna know what's up with the elves and facial hair. I figured they'd be smooth like dolphins, but Sarel, Fenris, and even some (unmodded, I think??) male Lavellans have random stubble or a five o' clock shadow going on. Wtf?

 
They use the same skin for everyone.
 
 

Elves can have facial hair I think.  I might be confusing it with LOTR. 
 
But the vast majority cannot even have stubble and i think are more or less "hairless" below the neck.  I mean, so are all the other races in game, but like in lore not supposed to have much hair save for above the nose.
 
I suppose this doesn't help with their twinkiness.
 
As far as bodies go, all they need to do is make there shoulders a little wider.  I don't think the joint can really work with the arms right by the sides if the shoulders are that thin.  They've got a similar thing going on with the leg joint.  It feels the body wasn't designed to have the legs directly underneath, it's more like you'd find on quadrupedal animals.  It certainly makes them look unique though, it's got a more ethereal, branching tree like definition to it.

 
No, DA elves cannot have facial hair.

Hi.

You're not missing the banter between Solas and Blackwall about elven beardlessness because of the banter bug. It was pulled out of the banter array and made to not trigger because it actually contradicts Word of Gaider (i.e. canon).

So, what happened was I wrote a bunch of banter while tired and obviously confused about the state of elven facial hair. The banter I wrote got voiced, and then one day, just to be sure, I checked with David Gaider about elven beards. The conversation went kind of like this:

"Hey, can elves grow beards?"
"No."
"Er, really? I wrote a banter referencing elf beards."
"You should probably delete it."
"I will."

So I went off and tried to make sure that this mistake of mine would never see the light of day. Of course, people dug around in the files and found the soundclips.

I would urge you to interpret that banter as Solas trolling Blackwall.

[Gervaise]

The whole beard thing came about because that mini series with Tallis in had an elderly elven keeper with a stubbly beard, so people started saying elves could have beards, instead of realising that they had just got it wrong when casting the old guy.    Up to then it had always been accepted that elves in DA do not have beards.  In Origins there was no option for having a beard in the elf generator, whereas you could have one as a human (or dwarf).   Ancient elves don't even have hair. 

 

You could definitely give your elf a more weathered look if you wished, which in a way would make sense what with them living out in the wilds, exposed to the elements on a daily basis, which could account for the shading affect on some elves.  

[vertigomez]

I'm glad there's confirmation. It just bothered me that Fenris came right out and said "elves don't grow beards" but then... some of them look like they forgot to shave that morning.

[Xilizhra]

So elves don't grow facial hair, but do grow pubic hair? I find it somewhat curious, but maybe it's not that odd if everything is based on magic.

[vertigomez]

So elves don't grow facial hair, but do grow pubic hair? I find it somewhat curious, but maybe it's not that odd if everything is based on magic.

I assumed they didn't do that either, but then Lavellan gets the same scene with Sera where it's referenced so... perhaps it's simply not as, um, plentiful?

[nightscrawl]

I assumed they didn't do that either, but then Lavellan gets the same scene with Sera where it's referenced so... perhaps it's simply not as, um, plentiful?

Perhaps it's just fine and wispy... Or perhaps no one in Thedas has pubic hair other than Iron Bull.

[vertigomez]

Perhaps it's just fine and wispy... Or perhaps no one in Thedas has pubic hair other than Iron Bull.

Well, as they long as they don't all have the terrifying Ken doll flesh-diapers of their nude models...

[Witch Cocktor]

Perhaps it's just fine and wispy... Or perhaps no one in Thedas has pubic hair other than Iron Bull.

 

Lol! Well, at least the female Inquisitor has some if you romance Sera!

[vertigomez]

Does this mean elves do/n't have leg hair?

What about qunari?

Durn uniform hairless body models!

[nightscrawl]

Does this mean elves do/n't have leg hair?

What about qunari?

Durn uniform hairless body models!

Talking about it seriously, elves might have just generally fine hair all over. Somewhat related, I have wondered what color Fenris's is... He has the white hair (from the lyrium, or trauma, or both), but dark eyebrows. I've assumed that his body hair would be dark as well. I rather wish he had white eyebrows for a whole look + markings.

[In Exile]

Why do we assume the ancient elves don't have hair on their heads? Solas shaving his head is arguably a style. 

 

 

Talking about it seriously, elves might have just generally fine hair all over. Somewhat related, I have wondered what color Fenris's is... He has the white hair (from the lyrium, or trauma, or both), but dark eyebrows. I've assumed that his body hair would be dark as well. I rather wish he had white eyebrows for a whole look + markings.

Part of that is that he looks pretty weird with white eyebrows. I think his natural hair colour is black, minus the lyrium. One wonders though whether his lyrium tatoos were some special ritual of the ancient elves. Until we met Abelas, I would have said yes, but none of the Sentinels had tatoos like Fenris. 

[Witch Cocktor]

I'm very salty that elves can't have facial hair. Like, EXCUSE ME for wanting to butch up my elf a little! >:c

[vertigomez]

That's what dwarves are for, Witch Cocktor!

Talking about it seriously, elves might have just generally fine hair all over. Somewhat related, I have wondered what color Fenris's is... He has the white hair (from the lyrium, or trauma, or both), but dark eyebrows. I've assumed that his body hair would be dark as well. I rather wish he had white eyebrows for a whole look + markings.

That's what I'm thinking. More like vellus hair, maybe?

As for Fenris, I like the dark eyebrows (and...maybe body hair? Who knows) Sort of draws attention to the weirdness of the hair, which I've always assumed was white either because of the lyrium itself or the trauma of the ritual.

[Witch Cocktor]

That's what dwarves are for, Witch Cocktor!

But that'd be TOO manly! Whenever I create a character, I like to dance between masculine and feminine. So like, a thin, small framed body but a masculine face with a lot of facial hair. That's what I wanted but I guess ELVES ARE TOO GOOD FOR FACIAL HAIR!?

[Xilizhra]

But that'd be TOO manly! Whenever I create a character, I like to dance between masculine and feminine. So like, a thin, small framed body but a masculine face with a lot of facial hair. That's what I wanted but I guess ELVES ARE TOO GOOD FOR FACIAL HAIR!?

Have a female dwarf with a beard.

[vertigomez]

But that'd be TOO manly! Whenever I create a character, I like to dance between masculine and feminine. So like, a thin, small framed body but a masculine face with a lot of facial hair. That's what I wanted but I guess ELVES ARE TOO GOOD FOR FACIAL HAIR!?

Well, Blackwall does say he stole all the beards and all the power held within.