101 réponses à ce sujet

[Sinful Force]

 

It would be a terrible thing for all shotguns to have Raider/Piranha accuracy. Those two shotguns have more dps, but wider spread. I don't want to have the same weapons over and over, I want new stuff and mechanics.

Nerfing smart choke is not necessary, accuracy on Mass Effect 3 is totally fine. And I don't think shotguns can shoot across maps, considering how bigger maps are compared to the previous game. example: shooting the Claymore on Hydra (Geth Pyro, headshot, ~10m away) took 3 squares of his shields. Not a big deal. Sniper rifles are still the kings of long-range gameplay.

 

 

^ Then what's the point of SR with scope penalty? Heck, shotguns don't even need to be scoped as the accuracy difference is barely noticeable on shotgun between scoped and non-scoped. Why I always hipfire them, as that also helps with recoil too. Not scoping is also the only way to avoid the dreaded aim assist nonsense on consoles (PC at least has a nice Mgamerz mod to finally be rid of aim assist & motion blur).

 

Shotguns also don't have to worry about shield gate.

 

 

So yes. Shotguns are beyond OP when used right. (Smart choke or Smartchoke + Accuracy boosting classes) Being able to snipe with shotguns like Raider should never of been possible.

[TheNightSlasher]

It would be a terrible thing for all shotguns to have Raider/Piranha accuracy. Those two shotguns have more dps, but wider spread. I don't want to have the same weapons over and over, I want new stuff and mechanics.
Nerfing smart choke is not necessary, accuracy on Mass Effect 3 is totally fine. And I don't think shotguns can shoot across maps, considering how bigger maps are compared to the previous game. example: shooting the Claymore on Hydra (Geth Pyro, headshot, ~10m away) took 3 squares of his shields. Not a big deal. Sniper rifles are still the kings of long-range gameplay.

I don't know about claymore, haven't used it in a long while but there are quite a few shotguns that have tight spread at range.
If I'm using a shotgun, I should be forced to engage enemies in point blank range.

It is possible to have varieties even with raider/piranha like accuracy. There are other parameters too.

[Mission_Scrubbed]

Then what's the point of SR with scope penalty?

Shotguns are effective, short-ranged weapons. Medium if you add Smart Choke. The only SR like shotguns I can think of is the Geth and the Graal. But that's the way they function. Oh, and the Crusader, but it has to worry about the Shield Gate.

 

shotguns don't even need to be scoped

That's a matter of preference you see, as I have always scoped my Claymore for years when in close-combat for it gives me more headshots.

 

Shotguns also don't have to worry about shield gate.

And that was indeed genius of the ME3 developers. Killing a target from across the map should never be easier than to encounter it face-to-face. Hell, I dance with Banshees and Phantoms, why should a sniper kill it unscathed 100m away?

 

Shotguns are beyond OP when used right. (Smart choke or Smartchoke + Accuracy boosting classes) Being able to snipe with shotguns like Raider should never of been possible.

Wait, you lost me there. With the exception of lolReegar, shotguns are definitely not op, just because their "group" (<--if I'm allowed to say so) is more complete and balanced than the other weapon "groups". Besides, when used right, you can work with almost anything.

 

Now, Marksman boosts your accuracy and firerate over a small period of time. It allows you to snipe with the Raider. It does exactly what it says it does. I really don't see where the crime is. Same goes for all accuracy boosting powers. Maps in ME3 are huge, and I don't want to convict myself playing forever SRs and Infiltraitors just because shotguns would suck otherwise.

 

To summarize, I feel that if you nerf Smart Choke or Accuracy powers you'll take a huge chunk of versatility and variety out of this game. Mass Effect 3 had many things done right, for It lasted for too long on it's own merits. Just my 2 cents.

[Loufi]

Most shotguns IRL have a maximal effective range around 50 meters. Beyond this distance, the pellets continue their run but the spread becomes too high to kill a humanoid sized target.

 

I didn't make rigourous tests to check it, but, based on experience, I have the feeling that it kinda fits with what we have in ME3...

[Abramsrunner]

Shotguns in ME3 is the first game where I actually liked using them, because they didn't feel gimpy past 5 meters. Back in the day I used the Claymore so much because it was so different from shotguns in other games, & when I pot-shotted an assault trooper's head from 40 meters away on Cerberus/Giant/lolSliver is when I knew shotguns were good. The M-300 Claymore was & still is an awesome shotgun, & it be better be back in ME:A unchanged.

[TheShadyEngineer]

Giving shotguns Piranha like accuracy and spread is a really bad idea. It would basically turn the entire weapon class into pellet based Revenants, and nobody wants that. I agree that shotguns in general are too good at range but instead of nerfing their accuracy, I think introducing a new damage drop-off over range mechanic would be better. Say a shotgun does maximum damage per pellet up to 10m and drops off to 50% damage per pellet at 50m. Arbitrary numbers to illustrate a point btw, inb4 shotgun fanboys get on my case. SMGs and pistols would get the same treatment while ARs and SRs will have less steep drop off. You'll still have your Crusaders, Paladins, Graals, GPSs and other niche weapons, the steep drop-off will only apply to standard hit scan pellet based shotguns and high cap semi or fully auto pistols and smgs.

 

Other weapon mechanics I'd like to see are faster transitions bw weapons. Reloading a primary being faster than switching to a secondary makes no sense. Select fire for most weapons, because why not have a burst fire shotgun or setting a CQC automatic to single fire to deal with ranged targets. A complete revamp of burst weapons to make them less useless and have more attachment customization. Actually scratch that, more meaningful attachment customization. We have a good number of attachments as of right now but only like 4 or 5 of them are worth using. When's the last time anyone saw a scope of any kind on any weapon, be it standard or thermal? AR stability dampener? Pistol melee stunner? Shotgun ULM? No, scrubby pugs using those attachments doesn't count.

[TheNightSlasher]

Giving shotguns Piranha like accuracy and spread is a really bad idea. It would basically turn the entire weapon class into pellet based Revenants, and nobody wants that. I agree that shotguns in general are too good at range but instead of nerfing their accuracy, I think introducing a new damage drop-off over range mechanic would be better. Say a shotgun does maximum damage per pellet up to 10m and drops off to 50% damage per pellet at 50m. 

Considering the fact that I like Revenant, I wouldn't be opposed to that.

 

In all seriousness, the damage drop-off beyond a certain range is probably a better way to reduce their ranged effectiveness than lowering the accuracy. It was just the first thing that came to my mind to prevent shotguns from being effective at range. I just don't like the idea of a shotgun headshotting an enemy at range. I love most shotguns in this game but that just feels off to me. 

[Saikyo_McRyu]

Considering the fact that I like Revenant, I wouldn't be opposed to that.

You are so awesome

[RidiculousMammal]

  The fact that shotguns can do massive damage past 5 meters negates the point of calling them shotguns.   I call for a wider diversity in gun usage during game, so people don't just use 1 gun the entire game.

 

  E.g. of silliness in ME3 is when you pack an acolyte just to deal with ONE enemy in the game.

[DarkOrgasm]

I cant wait for the new nerf and turf , I mean buff wars to come back to BSN, So many tears (I hear 2Pac in the background) and tasting tears again for many will be a daily event to come here for

[Catastrophy]

Screw guns, we want powers and abilities and hot bodies.

[Abramsrunner]

^A greater diversity among powers, & abilities would go further than reworking weapons, it's a shame that we didn't get some of those SP powers, like Defense Matrix, Defense Drone, Dominate, (I would play an Asari just to see Phantoms sync kill eachother) Flare, & Biotic Protector.

[Sinful Force]

So bum bum jiggle physics and more variety of it > then weapons and powers?

[Alfonsedode]

Take PRS and throw it out the airlock.

 

Pretty much as long as they don't do something as insane as base power damage on the weapon's base damage, we should be ok.

what are u talking about ?

 

For the rest i quite agree with TNS, every thing is mostly fine as is but i dont care that much about MM sniper spread of the raider though

[Catastrophy]

what are u talking about ?

 

For the rest i quite agree with TNS, every thing is mostly fine as is but i dont care that much about MM sniper spread of the raider though

That was the power balancing in DAI MP. Your power damage output would scale with weapon damage.

The good part: It scaled.

The bad: RNG and people salivating to obtain better gear.

 

Not the hot body of the character was the focus of interest, no it was a cold piece of metal.

[DaemionMoadrin]

The focus of this thread was weapon mechanics, nothing else. If we want to discuss -everything- that ME:A should have or be able to do, then we're going to need a lot more time. I could also point out a few threads I started regarding those topics in the ME:A forums, where this discussion belongs.

[capn233]

what are u talking about ?

 

For the rest i quite agree with TNS, every thing is mostly fine as is but i dont care that much about MM sniper spread of the raider though

 

For which part?

 

The weapon weight - power recharge paradigm ended up being counterproductive for overall balance.

 

The last part is a reference to how Dragon Age Inquisition works.  Imagine if you took an engineer and your Overload damage depended on if you equipped the Predator vs the Carnifex.

 

I don't agree with some of what TNS said because some of my least favorite qualities of Mass Effect 2 weapon balance would make a return.  Granted, ME2 had the best overall weapon balance of the trilogy, but the two big interrelated problems were the range modifiers for damage and the horrible accuracy for shotguns.

 

The variety in spread for ME3 shotguns is fine at base.  Making everything like the Piranha would be a huge over-correction.  It would make more sense to simply unlink shotgun spread or pattern from accuracy bonuses.  A mod like Smart Choke to tighten the pattern is fine, although a the bonus might need to be changed.  A large reason it is so popular a mod is because most of the other mods are completely useless.  That is in no small part due to HVB and the weight glitch, but also due to the how mediocre SG ULM is, and the general availability of ammo vs spare ammo pools.

 

edit:  For the most part I was also fine with researchable upgrades from ME2, and didn't think the weapon mods were much of a leap forward in ME3.  It seems like most of what they ended up doing was allowing Bioware to go cartoon style with some parameter on a few weapons so that you could slap a mod on to fix it.  Guess it allowed weapons to be differentiated from each other in theory.

 

If you are going to do mods, perhaps it would have been nice to have mods like Shield Piercing or Sabot Jacketing, etc for multiplier tuning.  We got Cranial Trauma for pistols, but it would have been great to have a headshot multiplier modifier for snipers.

[akots1]

Considering the fact that I like Revenant, I wouldn't be opposed to that.

 

In all seriousness, the damage drop-off beyond a certain range is probably a better way to reduce their ranged effectiveness than lowering the accuracy. It was just the first thing that came to my mind to prevent shotguns from being effective at range. I just don't like the idea of a shotgun headshotting an enemy at range. I love most shotguns in this game but that just feels off to me. 

IMHO, there is nothing wrong with shotguns as they are in ME3. First, technology develops and guns get better. Second, some powers (marksman, hunter mode, turian stability/accuracy, etc) improve the range of shotguns. I tend to consider shotguns as rather burst base damage versus low fire rate and assault rifles as continuous damage regardless of range. There are also hybrid types of weapons like talon (more of a shotgun than a pistol), crusader (more of a sniper rifle than a shotgun especially with the fix), venom and falcon (mini grenade launchers which are neither shotgun nor assault rifle, also acolyte may belong to the same class), graal/kishok pair, and some others.

 

I don't see any problem from the physics point of view as well. You can have one charge with precise accuracy (most of sniper rifles) or multiple charges with reduced accuracy and lack of scoping (most shotguns). But these multiple charges still fly where they should/can fly and if their spread is substantially reduced due to space magic, there is nothing wrong with it.

 

IMO, another problem, at least for PC, is frame rate and effect of frame rate on damage, enemy behavior and other things. They got rid of it in DAIMP but that produced a number of other oddities which made the game essentially unplayable due to mutiple syncing issues as it became very unstable.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Pay them a decent wage and credit them for their work.

[TheNightSlasher]

IMHO, there is nothing wrong with shotguns as they are in ME3. 

That seems to be everyone's opinion....except mine.

[Loufi]

That seems to be everyone's opinion....except mine.

OMG you're the special one !

 

Spoiler

[DarkOrgasm]

OK let me get this straight.

 

We're talking shotguns with space magic abilities not a saw-off12 ga in RL?  Right?? Right??

 

If a pistol can masquerade as a shotgun and a shotgun masquerade as a sniper rifle and a sniper rifle masquerade as a assault rifle, whats the problem?

 

We have a space magic soap opera with frogs and bird aliens and other sorts of things ie (looking at non space magic pugs) where so much is held in disbelief, why can't a shotgun shoot across a buggy EA hamster map??

 

 I mean really

[capn233]

If a pistol can masquerade as a shotgun and a shotgun masquerade as a sniper rifle and a sniper rifle masquerade as a assault rifle, whats the problem?

 

This is in fact something that needs to be re-evaluated.

[HeroicMass]

One of the reasons I always felt that Shotguns took such a high level of focus in this game is due to the way the thermal clip system works.  Contrary to the vast majority of shotguns in other games where you have to load individual shells, the thermal clip system allows for a high level of sustained DPS since we are able to reload them in a clip format.  I would imagine we never would have seen any nerfs to the pirahna if you had to load the 8 shells one at a time.  

 

Personally, it didn't bother me that they were this way.  I would imagine that we would have seen a higher amount of assault rifle usage if it had been a shell system vs. clip.  

 

For me, I just hope they continue to produce the better variety of weapons that we saw over the course of the DLCs.  The initial weapon set had some good things going for it, but the DLC weapons had a distinct feel to many of them that allowed for different playstyles than what we had at the beginning.  With the advent of new races into the universe, I hope they are able to deliver on that while bringing some fan favorites forward into ME:A

 

Also, obligatory Bioware pls

[Teh_Ocelot]

OK let me get this straight.

 

We're talking shotguns with space magic abilities not a saw-off12 ga in RL?  Right?? Right??

 

If a pistol can masquerade as a shotgun and a shotgun masquerade as a sniper rifle and a sniper rifle masquerade as a assault rifle, whats the problem?

 

This is in fact something that needs to be re-evaluated.

 

If we're still talking IRL vs. in-game function, then there are pistols that fire shot shells, there's nothing the least bit unrealistic about the Talon.

 

The Indra....yeah, got nothing for you there. #spacemagic