154 réponses à ce sujet

[Shechinah]

Nah, I do believe different opinions do not yet qualify as conformity.

[CronoDragoon]

Let's be fair here: plenty of people were rude to the OP before she started lashing out with insults.

 

Well. Aren't you having fun criticizing everything about the game?

 

 

 

Disagree about the quest, but it may apply to the thread title, if one is to complain about writing....

 

 

This is like Dunning-Kruger criticism, where the complainer suffers from the delusion that their complaints are good.

[Arshei]

Let's be fair here: plenty of people were rude to the OP before she started lashing out with insults.

 

A discussion without aggressive opinions is boring.

 

 

Nah, I do believe different opinions do not yet qualify as conformity.

 

Then you haven't a comply about how your companion just disappear when Corypheous appear?, you can't just ignore things, you think is worth your money the fact that they made no effort in the work?

And then people comply if you call them fanboy

[CronoDragoon]

Then you haven't a comply about how your companion just disappear when Corypheous appear?, you can't just ignore things, you think is worth your money the fact that they made no effort in the work?

 

Well, the alternative is that it's a solo mission with no real fighting or challenge (or both companions you take perma-die). Which could work, I guess, but considering this is the first clash between the Inquisition and Corypheus, I could see why they'd want something a big more exciting.

[giveamanafish...]

Agree with your other points mostly, but I do think it was silly to send out the Herald. If the leadership of the Inquisition can't remember that the Herald is the only person proven to be able to close rifts and that they should be protected at all costs (let's ignore the fact that we're also allowed into constant danger by wandering around with only three people), then realistically they aren't good leaders. Leaders should keep a cool head in a crisis (and I do think Cullen managed to do so throughout the mission) and should be the ones to say "no you can't sacrifice yourself, we will send a squad to the trebuchets." It's leaders who are deciding the course of action, not the panicked masses trying to survive.

 

Especially since there is no reason for the Herald to go out against an unknown enemy. At this stage, we didn't know it was Corypheus or that he was looking for the Herald/Anchor. We only learn that by the time we're already out there and everyone else is retreating.

 

What could have been cool is if we did a Gates of Denerim or prison break quest where we assign a follower (Cassandra) to lead a team to the trebuchets, and have the Herald lead the charge for the rest of the forces through the hidden pass. But then this would have eliminated the Herald meeting Cory face to face.

 

I do think there are several logic flaws to the quest, but they're easily overlooked because it's one of the stronger and more atmospheric quests in the whole game.

 

 

But was Roderick likeable at all before that point? I thought his conversion was more of a death bed one, as the last time we saw him was when we were on our way to Val Royeaux. I enjoyed his scene in IYHSB but it seemed more like a last minute turn rather than a gradual one since our first moments with him.

If I remember correctly this quest introduces the-pale-kid-with-the-funny-hat and he explains right at the beginning of the battle that they are coming for the Herald. Isn't this also expanded on in the conversation with Cullen, the kid and the other guy with the funny hat, just before you head to the Trebuchet? The idea was to save as many as possible from what seemed like a certain death. It was a 'hail mary' kind of situation that could be construed to require the Herald's sacrifice, w/o regard to the future. Judging by some people's reaction maybe this sense of desperation wasn't adequately conveyed?

 

Explanation. 'Hail Mary' is a commonly used  expression in American Football (toss -ball to youse forerners) to describe desperate last second of the game plays where the game is otherwise already lost:

 

Edit:  Cole and Roderick(?).

[Elhanan]

Let's be fair here: plenty of people were rude to the OP before she started lashing out with insults.

If one is to post a criticism about writing, it might be best to insure that the thread title is grammatically correct. The post seemed well written, so I remain curious.

[correctamundo]

If I remember correctly this quest introduces the-pale-kid-with-the-funny-hat and he explains right at the beginning of the battle that they are coming for the Herald. Isn't this also expanded on in the conversation with Cullen, the kid and the other guy with the funny hat, just before you head to the Trebuchet? The idea was to save as many as possible from what seemed like a certain death. It was a 'hail mary' kind of situation that could be construed to require the Herald's sacrifice, w/o regard to the future. Judging by some people's reaction maybe this sense of desperation wasn't adequately conveyed?

 

Explanation. 'Hail Mary' is a commonly used  expression in American Football (toss -ball to youse forerners) to describe desperate last second of the game plays where the game is otherwise already lost:

 

Edit:  Cole and Roderick(?).

 

Yeah, but you actually have to pay attention to the game then to notice that ;-). Then again some people seem to prefer games where you are locked up in a gilded cage for fear of hurting yourself. Makes for a "fun" adventure.

[Shizukai]

I really don't think that we all have to agree on whether it is a good quest or a bad one. But nobody has to get rude and I have to admit that phrases like "fanboy/fangirl" and "average consumer" just make me angry. We do share our passion (or at least an interest) for the DA-series, there is no need to create a hierarchy of "good fans" and "bad fans" or something like this...

 

Also, stop grammar discussions.

Not everyone in here grew up only speaking and writing English, it is not my mother tongue either and I do make a lot of mistakes but that does not change my opinion...or its significance. I'm not blaming anyone for not speaking my native language either, so... just stop it.

[Elhanan]

I really don't think that we all have to agree on whether it is a good quest or a bad one. But nobody has to get rude and I have to admit that phrases like "fanboy/fangirl" and "average consumer" just make me angry. We do share our passion (or at least an interest) for the DA-series, there is no need to create a hierarchy of "good fans" and "bad fans" or something like this...
 
Also, stop grammar discussions.
Not everyone in here grew up only speaking and writing English, it is not my mother tongue either and I do make a lot of mistakes but that does not change my opinion...or its significance. I'm not blaming anyone for not speaking my native language either, so... just stop it.

Am not the grammar police; simply indicating that a seemingly well written post is headed by errors, and one that is sharply critical of the writing. The irony is sharp enough to warrant footwear....

[Abyss108]

Ya know, it's kinda rude to imply anyone who doesn't agree with you is a fanboy. hater

 

It's so strange how communications break down after someone gets called a Nazi. 

[Nimlowyn]

It's so strange how communications break down after someone gets called a Nazi. 

Or when a stupid comment is made suggesting domestic violence that is both rude and a complete non sequitur. 

[vbibbi]

If I remember correctly this quest introduces the-pale-kid-with-the-funny-hat and he explains right at the beginning of the battle that they are coming for the Herald. Isn't this also expanded on in the conversation with Cullen, the kid and the other guy with the funny hat, just before you head to the Trebuchet? The idea was to save as many as possible from what seemed like a certain death. It was a 'hail mary' kind of situation that could be construed to require the Herald's sacrifice, w/o regard to the future. Judging by some people's reaction maybe this sense of desperation wasn't adequately conveyed?

 

Explanation. 'Hail Mary' is a commonly used  expression in American Football (toss -ball to youse forerners) to describe desperate last second of the game plays where the game is otherwise already lost:

 

Edit:  Cole and Roderick(?).

I forgot the Cole/Dorian comments. My point still remains that the entire game is based on the absurdity that the Herald/Inquisitor is constantly placed into unnecessary danger when they are built up as the only hope to save the world. What happened to the idea that people who had willingly joined the Inquisition would lay down their lives for the cause, except wait no they'd rather leave the only person capable of closing rifts behind so they can escape?

 

The idea of being the only person in the world with a special world-saving power AND leader of an organization doesn't mesh well with the standard RPG format of being an adventurer out in the field constantly in battle. The nominal leader of an organization, figurehead or not, should not be committed to the field with only three followers, nor should they sacrifice themselves for a desperate chance that others MIGHT survive.

[BSpud]

My my, so there is no such thing as a legitimate complaint. The customer is always wrong and the company is always right. Gotcha.

 

OP, if you wish to feel validated about this, I suggest looking up smudboy. He nitpicks every single damn thing but at least that means all the actual bad stuff gets brought to light no matter what they are.

 

Smudboy lol

[robertthebard]

Share the mission with someone who isn't a fanboy of Dragon age and you are going to see how bad written is the mission.

I am not trying to change the game to my likes, this is imposible, I am complaining because the game isn't exactly cheap, and there are mission like this that have no logic.

 

No one can't deny they do a terrible work when your companion simply disappear from the map when Corypheous enter to the scene.

Actually, what you're going to find is that they've seen it before, in a ton of games, and quite literally hundreds of books and movies too.  It all ties in to paying attention, however, since the point you rehash here is amply explained, in the very quest you're talking about:

 

Dragon attacks, and you send your companions away.  That is what "Go" means, or maybe it's "move".  However, the plan was made, you're to distract him, and drop a mountain on his head.  You.  Not your companions.  You are the one Cory wants, this is explained in great detail as well.  This is an inherent problem with people that just want to skip cutscenes, or skip through dialog; they miss the text, let alone the subtext of what's going on, and then scream about bad writing.

 

This assessment will of course have people labelling me "fanboy", because I had the audacity to point out flaws in your logic.  I can deal with that.  My post history may tell a different tale, but hey, who needs facts when you can just scream "fanboy" because you didn't understand what was really going on?

[TK514]

Judging by some people's reaction maybe this sense of desperation wasn't adequately conveyed?

 

In my opinion, this phrase could be applied to most of the game.  I didn't hate DA:I, but at no time did I ever feel a sense of threat or urgency from the main plot.

[Elhanan]

In my opinion, this phrase could be applied to most of the game.  I didn't hate DA:I, but at no time did I ever feel a sense of threat or urgency from the main plot.

Not from gathering Shards, Bottles, or Requisitions perhaps, but the events concerning Adamant Fortress and the Fade seemed rather urgent to me. This plus the siege of Haven also provided such drama.

[AlanC9]

The idea of being the only person in the world with a special world-saving power AND leader of an organization doesn't mesh well with the standard RPG format of being an adventurer out in the field constantly in battle. The nominal leader of an organization, figurehead or not, should not be committed to the field with only three followers, nor should they sacrifice themselves for a desperate chance that others MIGHT survive.

Like I mentioned upthread, ME1 has a similar problem. See also, Star Trek:TOS.

Anyway, if you don't buy IYHSB, you shouldn't buy the whole premise of the game. And maybe we shouldn't.

[AlanC9]

In my opinion, this phrase could be applied to most of the game.  I didn't hate DA:I, but at no time did I ever feel a sense of threat or urgency from the main plot.

I'm not sure it's conceptually possible to simultaneously let the player manage pacing and convey a sense of urgency.

[robertthebard]

I'm not sure it's conceptually possible to simultaneously let the player manage pacing and convey a sense of urgency.

I agree.  I can imagine the backlash if every single plot quest was timed like WE/WHs, a mechanic that received a lot of flak here, as I recall.  It may have been interesting to see the results if you failed to get a quest done on time, and had those forces at the final fight, with a time limit.  If you didn't complete the quests, every sub plot that you would have otherwise thwarted went through, and in the end, you had either pretty much what we got for the end fight, or you had to fight all the way to Cory, with a time limit, and if you didn't make the time limit getting to Cory, he wins.

[TK514]

Not from gathering Shards, Bottles, or Requisitions perhaps, but the events concerning Adamant Fortress and the Fade seemed rather urgent to me. This plus the siege of Haven also provided such drama.

 

While I found Corypheus' introduction interesting, I did not find any of those particularly urgent or threatening...

 

I'm not sure it's conceptually possible to simultaneously let the player manage pacing and convey a sense of urgency.

 

and this is why. 

 

I'm not exactly sure what BioWare was going for with the halfhearted 'open world' they attempted but, in my opinion, it captured none of the benefits of such a game with many of its negatives.  One of which was that we, the player, control the pacing.  I can go deal with this supposedly critical threat to the Grey Wardens...oooor I can go to a fancy party.  (or I can just faff off over here in randomville, doing shard collection or whatever)  I mean, how urgent can the threat be if I've got time to ride to Val Royeaux, be feted by the nobility in a party full of intrigue and ego, then head back to Skyhold before riding off to the far end of Orlais to deal with whatever has the Wardens all hot and bothered?  Had it been structured without the choice, that would have felt more urgent.  "You need to go save the Wardens before they're a demon army, so we've temporarily cut off access to any other locale!" would have been a great way to enforce that this is a BIG DEAL and you need to treat it as such.

 

That still wouldn't have helped much with Corypheus' credibility as a threat, since he fell flat due to being an absentee villain (among other things), but a tighter story without all the random giant areas for the sake of saying there are random giant areas would have definitely made for a more enjoyable game.

 

Haven is something of a different issue, that has more to do with Marketing than the game itself.  Since every time we turned around during the lead up to the game, they were telling us how awesome Skyhold was, Haven never felt like more than a lengthy prologue.  I knew we weren't going to stay there, so it getting attacked and destroyed felt less like a loss and more like a 'Finally we get our real HQ' moment.  In short, we got rewarded for getting our asses handed to us.  Now, had Corypheus later assaulted Skyhold and temporarily driven us out, now THAT would have been tense and impactful.  But alas, it was not to be.

[Nimlowyn]

Accidental post.
 

[Madmoe77]

If one is to post a criticism about writing, it might be best to insure that the thread title is grammatically correct. The post seemed well written, so I remain curious.

 

 

Man walks into an art museum. He stands in front of two pieces-each distinctly different from the other; one he doesn't like. I forgot the punchline sorry. 

 

Edited for an s  irony accredited

[Elhanan]

Man walks into an art museum. He stand in front of two pieces-each distinctly different from the other; one he doesn't like. I forgot the punchline sorry.

Differing opinions do occur. But if the said man were to sketch the piece he disliked in crayon as an example, it might be difficult to take such criticism seriously.

[ModernAcademic]

*watching events unfold from the sidelines*

 

[correctamundo]

While I found Corypheus' introduction interesting, I did not find any of those particularly urgent or threatening...

 

 

and this is why. 

 

I'm not exactly sure what BioWare was going for with the halfhearted 'open world' they attempted but, in my opinion, it captured none of the benefits of such a game with many of its negatives.  One of which was that we, the player, control the pacing.  I can go deal with this supposedly critical threat to the Grey Wardens...oooor I can go to a fancy party.  (or I can just faff off over here in randomville, doing shard collection or whatever)  I mean, how urgent can the threat be if I've got time to ride to Val Royeaux, be feted by the nobility in a party full of intrigue and ego, then head back to Skyhold before riding off to the far end of Orlais to deal with whatever has the Wardens all hot and bothered?  Had it been structured without the choice, that would have felt more urgent.  "You need to go save the Wardens before they're a demon army, so we've temporarily cut off access to any other locale!" would have been a great way to enforce that this is a BIG DEAL and you need to treat it as such.

 

That still wouldn't have helped much with Corypheus' credibility as a threat, since he fell flat due to being an absentee villain (among other things), but a tighter story without all the random giant areas for the sake of saying there are random giant areas would have definitely made for a more enjoyable game.

 

Haven is something of a different issue, that has more to do with Marketing than the game itself.  Since every time we turned around during the lead up to the game, they were telling us how awesome Skyhold was, Haven never felt like more than a lengthy prologue.  I knew we weren't going to stay there, so it getting attacked and destroyed felt less like a loss and more like a 'Finally we get our real HQ' moment.  In short, we got rewarded for getting our asses handed to us.  Now, had Corypheus later assaulted Skyhold and temporarily driven us out, now THAT would have been tense and impactful.  But alas, it was not to be.

 

Now you are describing more or less every game out there.