154 réponses à ce sujet

[Aren]

'Pull the lever!' or whatever to you. 

Divine Inquisitor Pull the lever!

[Addictress]

Am not the grammar police; simply indicating that a seemingly well written post is headed by errors, and one that is sharply critical of the writing. The irony is sharp enough to warrant footwear....

Writing isn't all about grammar and syntax. A plot is a plot, regardless of the language

[Elhanan]

Writing isn't all about grammar and syntax. A plot is a plot, regardless of the language

And the plot of the Thread title is...?

[GoldenGail3]

Writing isn't all about grammar and syntax. A plot is a plot, regardless of the language

I think writing is mostly about grammer and syntax's

[Addictress]

Okay.

Look.

When you say, "Arrested Development is a well-written comedy."

Are you pointing more to the grammar and syntax, or to the characters, the plot and subplots, the comedic ideas, etc?

:/

I'll just calm down and slowly walk away.

[GoldenGail3]

Okay.
Look.
When you say, "Arrested Development is a well-written comedy."
Are you pointing more to the grammar and syntax, or to the characters, the plot and subplots, the comedic ideas, etc?
:/
I'll just calm down and slowly walk away.

.... Wtf is this? I was saying the plot wouldn't work if it had poor grammer and syntax in it. It'd be crappy; even with a good plot.

[Elhanan]

Okay.

Look.

When you say, "Arrested Development is a well-written comedy."

Are you pointing more to the grammar and syntax, or to the characters, the plot and subplots, the comedic ideas, etc?

:/

I'll just calm down and slowly walk away.

I would say that the sentence appears to be well crafted, and that I have not watched the show; no opinion at this time.

However, in this case the OP makes a rather harsh post saying the writing of the quest seems poorly done, but entitles the thread with 'Feel Poor Written'. I simply smirk a bit at the irony.

[Medhia_Nox]

I think writing is mostly about grammer and syntax's

 

I think grammar (it's with an "a" btw) and syntax are the way in which writing is conveyed. 

I believe there's a very important difference between the methods by which one writes and the finished body of work.

 

A person could write a perfect essay.  It can be correct in all technical aspects, but also be the most boring piece of tripe you've ever read.  Conversely, one may write both a technically perfect essay AND an engrossing piece of writing.

 

That, however, requires more than just grammar and syntax.  It requires artistry (even for essays). 

 

I would say any enduring work is 10% technical (grammar/syntax) and 70% artistry and 20% pure dumb luck that your work will be published/appreciated.

[TK514]

Divine Inquisitor Pull the lever!

 

Why does this look so familiar?

[Nimlowyn]

I think grammar (it's with an "a" btw) and syntax are the way in which writing is conveyed.

I believe there's a very important difference between the methods by which one writes and the finished body of work.

A person could write a perfect essay. It can be correct in all technical aspects, but also be the most boring piece of tripe you've ever read. Conversely, one may write both a technically perfect essay AND an engrossing piece of writing.

That, however, requires more than just grammar and syntax. It requires artistry (even for essays).

I would say any enduring work is 10% technical (grammar/syntax) and 70% artistry and 20% pure dumb luck that your work will be published/appreciated.

I look at it less as percentages ( I'll just call it a pie chart cause I like my metaphors) and more like a house. Grammar and syntax make up the foundation. (I've been in workshops where the mechanicals were weak enough to make the writing confusing if not incomprehensible. So that's foundational.) Narrative structure might be the walls, narrative voice the roof... And that X factor, that talent, may be the person who lives in the house. The one element that makes a house a home, that gives the structure soul.

Every part is important and has a role to play. Take one part away and it is an incomplete structure. Without a person living there though, a house is just an empty building.

[GoldenGail3]

I think grammar (it's with an "a" btw) and syntax are the way in which writing is conveyed. 
I believe there's a very important difference between the methods by which one writes and the finished body of work.
 
A person could write a perfect essay.  It can be correct in all technical aspects, but also be the most boring piece of tripe you've ever read.  Conversely, one may write both a technically perfect essay AND an engrossing piece of writing.
 
That, however, requires more than just grammar and syntax.  It requires artistry (even for essays). 
 
I would say any enduring work is 10% technical (grammar/syntax) and 70% artistry and 20% pure dumb luck that your work will be published/appreciated.

Yeah, lol. But i find it important to have good spelling - so that people can't tell me I'm an idiot for my lack of bad spelling.

[Donk]

.... Wtf is this?

 

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

My biggest problems with it:

 

- Everything involving Corypheus feels poorly-written. Perhaps if I had played the DLC for DA 2, I would feel differently, but as presented in DA:I, he is a weak villain, and any scenes with him in them suffer for it.

 

- The mission should have been the one important opportunity to present Corypheus as a menacing villain. Instead, he is easily dealt with one-on-one, to the point where the player has plot armour preventing any major negative consequences. The villain doesn't present the necessary danger to justify his threat level.

 

- The scene should have presented the protagonist with adversity, and set the cause back. Instead, the player ends up with a new castle, a new army, and a new power base that actually dramatically improves their odds against the villain they just fought and fairly easily survived.

 

And as for the general tone of the responses that I read in the first couple of pages: The fact that you don't agree with someone's criticism doesn't mean that those criticisms are invalid. It's amazing how easily people can say, "Oh look, this silly person thinks his opinion matters," while having no self-awareness about it.

[Shizukai]

My problem was, that people got "bullied" for not writing in perfect English sentences in here.

It was not about the art of writing. 

 

A crappy (or wrong) writing can take the fun out of a great book even though the storyline might

be great. But it is a question of the media used to deliver the story: A script/screenplay can be full

of grammatical errors et cetera and the consumer is never confronted with them and is therefore

able to enjoy a great story.

 

..........................

The concept of Corypheus is not a new one. He is a very simple antagonist in my opinion but that 

does not make him a bad one. It doesn't have to be mixed-up and complicated with every enemy-

character we met. Sometimes, I really enjoy getting back to very basic concepts and ideas like in

children's books. That does not make me stupid, average or "easy to entertain".

 

I'm a hobby writer with a degree in this field myself and this constant pressure "to do something new"

is really putting me into self-doubt a lot. But if you take a look at the very "big" stories that kept us

breathless and brought us to laughter and tears - you will soon realize that they often contain a very 

simple plotline.

[Elhanan]

My problem was, that people got "bullied" for not writing in perfect English sentences in here.
It was not about the art of writing. 
 
A crappy (or wrong) writing can take the fun out of a great book even though the storyline might
be great. But it is a question of the media used to deliver the story: A script/screenplay can be full
of grammatical errors et cetera and the consumer is never confronted with them and is therefore
able to enjoy a great story.
 
..........................
The concept of Corypheus is not a new one. He is a very simple antagonist in my opinion but that 
does not make him a bad one. It doesn't have to be mixed-up and complicated with every enemy-
character we met. Sometimes, I really enjoy getting back to very basic concepts and ideas like in
children's books. That does not make me stupid, average or "easy to entertain".
 
I'm a hobby writer with a degree in this field myself and this constant pressure "to do something new"
is really putting me into self-doubt a lot. But if you take a look at the very "big" stories that kept us
breathless and brought us to laughter and tears - you will soon realize that they often contain a very 
simple plotline.

Bullied? Sorry, but if one is to gift everyone with a stinging criticism Of The Writing, they may wish to attempt to make the lead as well written as the post itself. My notice of this ironic matter pales enormously to anything that should be compared to bullying behavior. But in this day and age, I should not be too surprised.

[Shizukai]

Oh wow, please excuse my lack of using a softer word. I put it in "" and (!) used cursive script for a reason.

[Elhanan]

Oh wow, please excuse my lack of using a softer word. I put it in "" and (!) used cursive script for a reason.

As a writer, perhaps you may understand that proper communication of that thought could have been more "clear"....

[Shizukai]

I really thought it would be clear enough for I double-marked it. The form of communication, especially regarding the written one, does matter.

But I already apologized, so I really think you can stop to quibble over it by now.

I ignore your attempt to mock me on purpose and will stop  discussing the sin I  committed.

 

This is not and was never what this thread was/is about.

 

 

[Edit]

It is kind of amusing how I asked everyone to stop pointing out wrong or questionable use of the English language in order to

keep the peace of this discussion... and now I get criticised for it straight away. Oh the irony...

[Elhanan]

I really thought it would be clear enough for I double-marked it. The form of communication, especially regarding the written one, does matter.
But I already apologized, so I really think you can stop to quibble over it by now.
I ignore your attempt to mock me on purpose and will stop  discussing the sin I  committed.
 
This is not and was never what this thread was/is about.
 
 
[Edit]
It is kind of amusing how I asked everyone to stop pointing out wrong or questionable use of the English language in order to
keep the peace of this discussion... and now I get criticised for it straight away. Oh the irony...

Nice of you to let it drop like this....

As for the topic, I disagree completely.

[Shizukai]

Nice of you to let it drop like this....

 

I'm not here to start a fight, that's all (:

[almasy87]

You closed the breach, no one apart of Cassandra says something about it, I dont know, our charcater could have died only Cassandra run to see the Inquisitor

Then the celebration... really?, just 6 NPCs dancing around the fire?

 

Oh, some random people is atacking us, why we should be surprised or confused?, we closed the breach who could be angry with us?, no, just Cullen appear and start to sending soldiers.

I can not laugh at the part when Josephine surprises because the templars/mages don't wear a flag, sweety, you are going to get killed and you care about the flag?

 

In the part when you save people I haven't a complain, maybe the dead of Chanciller Roderick was totally unnecessary, and I think they just make him die to win the love of the player.

 

And here is the worst part:

Herald - Oh, I am going to sacrifice

Cullen - K, see ya.

I was expecting a "was a pleasure working with you" or something!

 

 

Really?, my character is going to give her life for the people in Heaven and they don't worry?

I know they just know the inquisitor less than a month but no one at least thank you for sacrifice?

I was flirting with Cullen all the time, I wanted to romance him, so, I can't give him a kiss before die?, I can't punch Vivienne?, just "Ok, I'm going to sacrifice, don't miss me then we get together and hear Cullen imitating Ricky Martin.

 

And Corypheous enter to the scene, where are my companion?

Cassandra: come on, leave this motherfu**ing herald alone, just run, we don't care.

 

Then the part when the villain told you his plan before kill you... And that's it?

No one worrys about you?

Even Mother Gisselle worry about you more than your companions/advisors?

dunno, I disagree with some of your points and agree with some.

Cassandra runs to check you out, but after the scene immediately shifts back to Haven, you don't get to see what happened after and what the others said.

Yeah, you see only a few people dancing around, but that's enough. Haven is a small place. Even in Skyhold you don't see the majority of your troops, they are stationed down the valley (you can see them from the top of the gate).

Cullen is the only one who looks worried.. not really. Cassandra too. Josephine is worried as well in her own way. She isn't a solder so her reaction is perfectly normal, she is a diplomat.. she isn't asking about their flag as in the actual drape.. she wants to know WHO could be attacking because t's her job as a diplomat to keep the relationship with other kingdoms healthy.. so she probably asks because she can't think of anyone who would have a grudge on them based on how she handles their contacts. And she's right.

I agree with wondering where the f are Leliana's spies and why didn't they see such force approaching. I guess they were all drunk/dancing/celebrating

Just a few flirts doesn't mean Cullen is suddenly in love with you. Why would he want to kiss you? D: You're not that important to him yet. If anything, it's after you're considered dead that he starts feeling more worried about you (proved by the next conversation with him).

I think Roderick was nice. He looked nasty but he redeemed himself in the end. I liked his character. And it's not because I pity him because he dies. It would have made no difference if he had stayed alive. He just changed his perspective.

I do agree that it's weird that suddenly when Corypheus arrives you're left alone.. But it was to make the scene a bit more epic. If you had been surrounded by guards or companions it would not have been as good. Actually he chooses to "land" when you are alone so he can talk to you.
(Still a bit silly that no one intervenes.. but I just assume they were busy fighting templars/mages around.

Finally.. The advisors are worried for you. You can see Cullen yelling "It's her/him! Thank the Maker!" just a second before you faint.
But they are in shock and concentrated on what to do so they don't see that you've waken up. Or would you have wanted them to immediately run at your feet when you got up asking "Are you alright???". That would make no sense, cause once again, you are not THAT important at the time.

Just my 2 cents



 

[BSpud]

JOESPHINE SWEETY Y U CARE SO MUCH ABOUT FLAG, I CAN NOT NOT LAUGH SO MUCH, ASKING ABOUT FLAG U CRAZY GRIL

[Medhia_Nox]

@Nimlowyn:  Without question I agree with you. 

 

@Shizukai:  It's not about "something new" - it's about something old written in such a refreshing way that people either 1) ignore other sources of the same material or 2) don't recognize the sources that are similar to it. 

 

So keep writing.

 

Also, while criticism is important and you ignore it at your own peril, allowing critiques to derail your desire to write might suggest it's a vocation not necessarily for you.  Artists of all forms are a self-important lot who love their own opinion more than anything else.  That's a spectacular attribute for making art and a pain in the ass one for making friends out of artists. 

 

As for Corypheus.  He has some classical elements and classical elements are part of all enduring fiction (regardless of the opinion of the hack amateur).  However, they are - in my opinion - used so poorly that a villain who could have had an element of "Frankenstein's monster" and "Dracula" ended up being more slash beastie to boorishly slaughter at the end of my personal power fantasy. 

 

Note about Dracula.  The real Dracula (that is, the one from the novel) is actually a really pathetic creature when you examine him in the context of the book.  Those pathetic elements.  The near panic to maintain power at all costs because of what it means.  The demon who's damnation is around every corner.  It's driven many classical villains.  (Wolfman, Dr. Moreau, Dr. Henry Jekyll, Dr. Frankenstein and his monster, Dracula are just a few.)

 

Now... let's look at something called Penny Dreadful.  It's a show on Showtime and is excellent in displaying the same types of villains that Corypheus actually is (chiefly the above mentioned characters all inhabiting the same universe).  But, when it does so it adds fresh new twists, has a different pacing to allow for better digestion of the basic tropes contained, and - at the end of the day - has delicious writing (yes, writing can have a "nutritional value" and the best writing fills you up like a robust meal).  Which... of course, is the grammar and syntax being discussed previously which - when combined with a mastery of words - makes for said "robust" writing.

[Arshei]

JOESPHINE SWEETY Y U CARE SO MUCH ABOUT FLAG, I CAN NOT NOT LAUGH SO MUCH, ASKING ABOUT FLAG U CRAZY GRIL

 

[BSpud]

JOE ZEE, U GOOFY WOMEN, WE COLLECT FLAGS FOR UR COLLECTION LATER OK?? LOL POOR WRITINGS.