388 réponses à ce sujet

[Jedi Comedian]

SWTOR is too straight for my taste.

Yeah, it seems like some pretty cool trailer, and I bet the game benefited from Star Wars movie being released.

[Shechinah]

This trailer shows us two jedi-like warriors and also brothers being trained like spartans by a father that does not really care about them, not even about their military victories. Valkorion then watches as Arcann and his brother duel after the rebel son finally explodes and attacks their father after years of coldness only to end up killing his brother, his real family. Only after this Valkorion shows an ounce of respect and calls him "son". We'll never see anything like this being made into a movie as long as Disney has the rights of SW.

 

Oh, I wish I knew how to make the hide spoiler function work because I do feel we do but I am not sure it would be polite to discuss the film and its villains since it only recently came out and there is no way of warning people before they see the posts.
 

[Jedi Comedian]

TOR is "too straight" even for a Bioware game 'cause SW has lots of conservative fans, I'd say.

[Jedi Comedian]

Well, since I'm here I think should give my opinion about the topic, I'd say ME2 Illusive Man is the best "villain" Bioware has ever given us, I've never cared so much about a "villain" since Kreia from TSL or Ozymandias from Watchmen (these two are obviously not made by Bioware, but I can't think about any other example of "villain who is more right than the hero", well maybe Letho from TW2).

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Letho in TW2 - The villain I let go. 

[ArcadiaGrey]

But Saren was an idiot.

 

I agree that this time we're the invaders. There are going to be those who live in Andromeda before us. We're fighting for our survival. So we're our good guys. Those who live in Andromeda should be their good guys. Andromeda is 4X larger than the MW, so maybe we find an isolated cluster that's sort of uninhabited, but maybe it's claimed. There's not enough of us to be an established civilization so it's obvious that we're 1) refugees; 2) invaders; 3) explorers. It will depend upon how we proceed. 

 

We'll have to learn how to live within their laws, not the other way around. But maybe there are other worlds in that cluster who do not want to be part of that empire and want to ally with us. 

 

But you know how this is going to turn out. An ancient and deadly enemy will be discovered. One that threatens all life in the galaxy and only you can stop it from happening. 

 

I hope that isn't the case as well.  Andromeda is a chance to tell a different type of story, if we end up with one bad guy that everyone wants to defeat it'll just be the same old same old.

 

DA2 had the benefit of both sides being right and wrong, so you could roleplay supporting either side.  That was interesting at least and stopped Hawke from being the almighty hero.  I liked that.  He could be an arse which I think is pretty great tbh.

 

Solas is a good example because you feel conflicted.  He's not really a bad guy, just a guy trying to do a good thing who screwed up entirely and now wants to fix it.  Sure, fixing it entails destroying the world....so there's that...but at least he's human.  Or elven anyway.  Then Loghain was trying to do good for Ferelden, but did it in the worst ways possible.  It makes them more interesting and sympathetic.  They both want to fix the world, but their methods suck.

 

Anyway I don't want one bad guy.  No Saren, or Corypheus, or any other big bad wolf painted with a broad stroke of bad-guy-ness.  In fact, MEA would be more interesting to me if it didn't have one defined enemy.  Let it be a story about exploration as you said.  Perhaps we could be the ones who are hunted, the aliens of Andromeda coming to get us because they don't want our kind.  Maybe we don't follow them, hunt them or try and stop them, but just get on with our lives until they come knocking on the door and we have no choice, Haven style.  That might work.  Let's face it, every game MUST end in a big boss fight (on pain of death  ), although Trespasser proved that actually, it might not have to.  The end could be different if it was written well enough.

[NKnight7]

I want a villain that I'm invested in just as much I'm invested in for the protagonist and companions. This is where I disliked Corypheus because it was difficult for me to care about him and his motives.

[ZipZap2000]

I think we need a smaller scale Saren Sovereign situation that gradually becomes a bigger tale. I'm a fan of the dark master and his apprentice trope the Saren like apprentice makes it personal and the Master through the apprentice is a threat to you. He may even fear you so he sends his best to take you out.

I know that's what they were aiming for with KL but lets be real it lacked a moment to genuinely make you hate TIM for what he's done and Thanes death was moving but a Victory of sorts. Have the bad guy beat you legitimately and its a different tone.

Have his boss rub it in to you and you're on the right track. Nothings drives me more than being kicked while I'm down.

Corypheus was a meh by the end and he started out well. But I don't buy DLC for anything but ME so I really had no idea who he was and what he was about. Too much mystery and a beautiful but ultimately generic end battle broke the deal.

In Andromeda it might be as simple as a well written oppressive leader with his heart set on small scale genocide. Or post genocide and you've discovered his crimes.

He doesn't like that.

[Kierro Ren]

No good or bad, no heaven or hell, just perspective. I like the idea that not all villains are born evil, just something traumatic happened that made their views change. Others are just oozing with evil.

 

I liked Saren alot, because yes he hated humans, but he was a hell of a soldier. I was a little crushed when he goes "Thank you, Shepard." He too had respect for Shepard, despite his opinion of them. I was curious, if he would of some how broken Sovereign's control, would he of became Shepard's friend (Kinda a DBZ villain turned friend)?

 

I think it would of been interesting, if you could of talked Saren down, he'd break from Sovereign's control, and get arrested. In ME2, when you go to the Citadel, you were able to talk to him, he'd say stuff like "I'm sorry." "You're a good person, but I don't fully trust humans." "Sovereign's dead, but I can still feel him... pulling... tearing my mind apart, Shepard!" In ME3 he could be released un Shepard's authority, because being connected to Sovereign may of given Saren an idea of Reaper weaknesses. And just throwing it out there, I think it would also be interesting if he was a romance option. He hated you at first, but after saving in in ME, he grew to love you. I care about certain villains, because I wonder what type of friend they'd make, if a piece of you rubbed off on them.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I just wanted Corypheus dead.

 

In ME3, I just wanted The Illusive Man dead, whereas in ME2 he was sympathetic. When you send out your army and your assassins to kill me you cross the line. His purpose in ME3 was the villain we could fight because the Reapers were the villain we couldn't fight. 

 

In DA2 you could give the Arishok back his tome and turn over Isabel. You could side with the Mages or the Templars. In the end you had to deal with the problem with Anders blowing up the Chantry. You had a choice of killing him or letting him go. He could have been your lover. How exacting were you? Hawke must have felt kind of helpless in that situation. 

 

Loghain presented another dilemma. With Ferelden now almost with no Grey Wardens, I chose to make him a Grey Warden. Anora still chose to have Alistair executed despite the deals made which left DA2 without a drunk mopey one. 

 

Even Skyrim had a more complicated plot despite the fact that you were the chosen one. Once you did your thing you didn't matter anymore. So choose your side carefully. Talos chose mine.... I was wandering in the north then I heard a fight between some bears and some other creature, and heard a splash. I picked up something at my feet. "You have now joined the Stormcloaks." The Gods have chosen.

[WarGriffin]

A complex scenario like the Peacekeeper/Scarran empire would be good with the Pathfinder expedition being the sudden wild card that throws everything out of wack

[LinksOcarina]

Well,

 

Solas is a very good antagonist in the end. I actually care about that one a lot.

 

People for some reason like Jon Irenicus (I don't, I thought he was mediocre) because of his complexity, Loghain because of his stubbornness and badassery, and Master Sun Li because of the entire connection to the overall plot. Dragon Age 2 also had no true villains; only people who made bad decisions.

 

So it can be done. I think the response to Corypheus, who honestly I thought was a good villain compared to trash like Kai Leng and the Archdemon, is going to spur a more complex character in the end.

 

My personal hope is that the villain is someone who was on your side, but switches sides mid-game. Perhaps a certain N7 Officer... 

[SerriceIceDandy]

I feel like a good villain is, as mentioned previously, someone who we can identify with in their aims and reasoning. The Illusive Man was a good example of this because although he was a bit Machiavellian in his approach to supporting humanity, ultimately his aims were something that can resonate with everyone. He was clearly a bit shifty, but he was more frustrated that you could/would not see things his way. Rather than cackling over a cauldron about his aims to subjugate all the other races, he was trying to ensure Humanity's safety be being an inter-stellar superpower. He was a pragmatist, albeit a callous one. To him having to oppose Shepard was lamentable, but an obstacle that had to be resolved.

Corypheus could have been better. The attack on Haven made him initially appear to be above the reach of the Inquisition. However, after that he was essentially thwarted by the Inquisition at every point after, which undermines him somewhat. However his motivations were a little cliché, and was just a very flat Big Bad.

I'd quite like to see a bit of a DA2 situation between Meredith and Orsino, or the Geth vs the Quarians. Where maybe one race is the 'enemy' but may not be all that bad, and our initial ally might not be telling the entire truth. 

[Quarian Master Race]

Dont really care as long as I can continue to interrupt their bloviating monolouges with trollish one liners like "we don't have time to deal with this idiot", "you won't look so smug with a hole in your head" or "you're just a machine, and machines can be broken".

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I feel like a good villain is, as mentioned previously, someone who we can identify with in their aims and reasoning. The Illusive Man was a good example of this because although he was a bit Machiavellian in his approach to supporting humanity, ultimately his aims were something that can resonate with everyone. He was clearly a bit shifty, but he was more frustrated that you could/would not see things his way. Rather than cackling over a cauldron about his aims to subjugate all the other races, he was trying to ensure Humanity's safety be being an inter-stellar superpower. He was a pragmatist, albeit a callous one. To him having to oppose Shepard was lamentable, but an obstacle that had to be resolved.

Corypheus could have been better. The attack on Haven made him initially appear to be above the reach of the Inquisition. However, after that he was essentially thwarted by the Inquisition at every point after, which undermines him somewhat. However his motivations were a little cliché, and was just a very flat Big Bad.

I'd quite like to see a bit of a DA2 situation between Meredith and Orsino, or the Geth vs the Quarians. Where maybe one race is the 'enemy' but may not be all that bad, and our initial ally might not be telling the entire truth. 

 

And I'd like to add in one qualifying factor - let's leave out the Red Lyrium. People make bad decisions. Look at Game of Thrones, for example. Aside from Joffrey and Ramsay who were and are insane, you have people making bad decisions. People who are greedy for power and those who are stuck in the middle. Aside from the "Others" coming down from the north - known in the TV series as the white walkers. It's all shades of gray. 

[Undead Han]

Letho in TW2 - The villain I let go. 

 

I had Geralt kill him, but only after sharing a drink with him.

 

Letho was a great villain, and having the villain be one of Geralt's former companions was an interesting choice.

[SentinelMacDeath]

I think FO4 did a decent job with the factions, they all have their reasoning, none of them are just good or just bad, they all do messed up things but at least they have a plan and run with it. I prefer that over a 100% super bad dude or dudette

[Donk]

I feel like there needs to be an invested interest into developing villains. This is something that is often lacking in Western RPG in general, it's mostly just doing a bunch of sidequests then suddenly fight the big bad, but the big bad is just appeared so suddenly and has no real tie to the protagonist that it doesn't really make me feel anything when fighting them. It would be cool to have some ties or personal reasons for why the protagonist wants to stop the villain asides from plunging the world into 1000 years of darkness. Maybe the villain kicked the protagonist's puppy or something, I want more interactions with the villains and more developing arc and story of some sort related to the protagonist and the villain.

I've always liked the idea of a personal grudge or a need for vengeance.

Imagine if for instance the villain used to be your best friend or even a family member or something and then took something from you that was important, like killing your beloved.

Personal reasons are great. I think that's why I really loved the serial killer arc in DA2.

[Donk]

I think FO4 did a decent job with the factions, they all have their reasoning, none of them are just good or just bad, they all do messed up things but at least they have a plan and run with it. I prefer that over a 100% super bad dude or dudette

A lot of people complain about that though. The fact they're all "grey" and have no moral alignment.

[SentinelMacDeath]

They do though, to their own cause.

[Battlebloodmage]

A lot of people complain about that though. The fact they're all "grey" and have no moral alignment.

People love to have their cake and eat it, too, like why couldn't there be solution for why all four factions can exist? They're making as if a war who has already going on for years can just end with a random guy suddenly appear out of nowhere. Many wars happen over nothing, and even then, it doesn't just end just like that. It's usually ended once someone win. All four factions have their good and bad points, that's really the point by making it grey. If there's the cop out option, most people would pick it, it takes away why choices are there in the first place. They really should have made us choose between geth and quarian. If there is a way to save both Kaidan and Ashley, then there is no reason for us to not save both.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I've always liked the idea of a personal grudge or a need for vengeance.

Imagine if for instance the villain used to be your best friend or even a family member or something and then took something from you that was important, like killing your beloved.

Personal reasons are great. I think that's why I really loved the serial killer arc in DA2.

Personal reasons only work for pre-determined protagonists. In games where the protagonist is up to the player, it's more a burden than a benefit. 

[Donk]

Personal reasons only work for pre-determined protagonists. In games where the protagonist is up to the player, it's more a burden than a benefit.

It could work if you can choose an "origin". But that would probably be a pain.

[Lucca_de_Neon]

But i like shooting people of whom i know nothing! 

[Lady Artifice]

I'm very much hoping for a partially playable origin story, and for the antagonist to be featured within that story. 

 

If the soon to be antagonist were to begin as a peer--a coworker/comrade in arms--of the protagonist, it would contribute additional subtext and significance to their eventual conflict. 

 

The player could still have plenty of freedom and control over their character. I'd want them to use the DAO origin stories as a premise. The player character immediately has the opportunity to set the tone for the relationship. Whether they were once best friends, fierce rivals, casual rivals, or just mutually respectful coworkers, it could add so much to the tension and weight of that dynamic.