388 réponses à ce sujet

[WarGriffin]

Right, but that's because we worked with TIM in ME2.  Do you expect him to pull punches now that we're fighting against him?  Or do you expect him to throw everything at you?  Do you really expect to know everything that's gonna happen at the same time that Shepard doesn't know?  I can hear the tears of agony coming screaming down your cheeks now.

 

What the **** are you babbling about? I didn't even bring up TIM

 

Kai is not properly built up to be threat, His introduction is used to give Thane or Kirrahe one last moment... Thane's in particular makes Kai look incomptent which in turn make Shepard and Co look stupid

 

A proper introduction would be Phantoms kill the Salarian councilor's body guards.. Thane Shows up kicks the crap out of the Phantoms to save the councilor... Kai shows ups and demolishes Thane -with Shepard and Co busy with Cerberus mooks so we don't have the stupidity of Shepard and co sitting there not helping thane 

 

Yes it would upset the Thane Fans to see him go down in such a manner... but Thane's Death shouldn't be about making Thane look awesome one last time... It should be showing that Kai is a dangerous ruthless enemy that is more then a match for even Shepard's uber team of allies and is Tim's Ace in the hole. The Unstoppable Mailed Fist to TIM's Scheming Chessplayer.

 

A Proper Villian is a Legitimate THREAT to the hero... Bioware's problem is Legit threat usually means they are a few steps ahead of the hero... but whenever it comes down to throwdown. BW likes making it seem like the villain can never really be a true threat or equal to the hero -unless they are some  Nigh godlike force-

 

It always comes off if the villain stands and fights He'd lose regardless of where the story is.... so the Hero has to hunt him down to where he has nowhere left to run.

[Jedi Comedian]

ME2 TIM reminded me of Adrian Veidt. I'd love to see that again.

[goishen]

What the **** are you babbling about? I didn't even bring up TIM

 

 

You did when you bring up him not being "built up enough".  That's great.  So, you've worked against him in ME1, worked with him in ME2, and now you want an extra helping of cutscenes in ME3 just so that you can feel that he's being "built up"?

 

A Proper Villian is a Legitimate THREAT to the hero...

 

Ummm, K.   But Kai Leng was never going after Shepard directly.  Or did you miss that whole "I'mma gonna kill the council" on the ride back to Cerberus station?  Did you miss that when he said, "Target the supports"?  About the only time that I can think of that you're talking about is when Shepard kills him.  And even then he's not really a villain.  Or at least, not the main villain.  He's an obstacle.

[Iakus]

Are there any of the Baldurs Gate II writers left? Jon Irenicus is probably the best Bioware villain, love him. I like it when you actually cheer abit as the villain appear on screen. Loghain was great aswell. 

David Gaider and Luke Krisjansen were part of the writing team and are still around.  THough they worked on Dragon Age.  And Gaider is now on the third IP.

[Elhanan]

I am a fan of Loghain. Love to hate him, and then spend one playthrough to accept him as a Follower and get to actually know the man a bit better. Likely my fave cRPG villain of this new century.

[SentinelMacDeath]

I want my villain to be part of my super team of butt kickers and they'll betray me in the end, bonus points if it's my LI that betrays me

[Shechinah]

I think I'd really dig a teammate that betrays the player character because they believe it is the right thing to do depending on how they are written. 

 

I'd prefer that they are unhappy about the decision because it is a betrayal of trust but it is something they feel they have to do it because they consider it to be the right thing to do.

 

Bonus if how they feel about the betrayal depends on their relationship with the player character: if they dislike the player character then they do not feel bad about the betrayal but if they like the player character then they do feel bad about the betrayal.

[capn233]

 

Kai is not properly built up to be threat, His introduction is used to give Thane or Kirrahe one last moment... Thane's in particular makes Kai look incomptent which in turn make Shepard and Co look stupid

 

A proper introduction would be Phantoms kill the Salarian councilor's body guards.. Thane Shows up kicks the crap out of the Phantoms to save the councilor... Kai shows ups and demolishes Thane -with Shepard and Co busy with Cerberus mooks so we don't have the stupidity of Shepard and co sitting there not helping thane 

 

...

 

Yes, Kai wasn't really built up at all in game.

 

It would have also probably made more sense to have him be the one trying to steal the info from the Mars archives and beat the crap out of the VS.  But EDI needed a Cylon body for some reason so Eva.

[Mistic]

I think I'd really dig a teammate that betrays the player character because they believe it is the right thing to do depending on how they are written. 

 

I'd prefer that they are unhappy about the decision because it is a betrayal of trust but it is something they feel they have to do it because they consider it to be the right thing to do.

 

Bonus if how they feel about the betrayal depends on their relationship with the player character: if they dislike the player character then they do not feel bad about the betrayal but if they like the player character then they do feel bad about the betrayal.

 

So...

Spoiler

...isn't that basically Solas?

[Natureguy85]

What the **** are you babbling about? I didn't even bring up TIM

 

Kai is not properly built up to be threat, His introduction is used to give Thane or Kirrahe one last moment... Thane's in particular makes Kai look incomptent which in turn make Shepard and Co look stupid

 

A proper introduction would be Phantoms kill the Salarian councilor's body guards.. Thane Shows up kicks the crap out of the Phantoms to save the councilor... Kai shows ups and demolishes Thane -with Shepard and Co busy with Cerberus mooks so we don't have the stupidity of Shepard and co sitting there not helping thane 

 

Yes it would upset the Thane Fans to see him go down in such a manner... but Thane's Death shouldn't be about making Thane look awesome one last time... It should be showing that Kai is a dangerous ruthless enemy that is more then a match for even Shepard's uber team of allies and is Tim's Ace in the hole. The Unstoppable Mailed Fist to TIM's Scheming Chessplayer.

 

A Proper Villian is a Legitimate THREAT to the hero... Bioware's problem is Legit threat usually means they are a few steps ahead of the hero... but whenever it comes down to throwdown. BW likes making it seem like the villain can never really be a true threat or equal to the hero -unless they are some  Nigh godlike force-

 

It always comes off if the villain stands and fights He'd lose regardless of where the story is.... so the Hero has to hunt him down to where he has nowhere left to run.

 

And maybe then Kai Leng could actually beat Thane in a fight rather than Thane jump on his sword like a moron.

[Jaquio]

My favorite kind of villain is the villain who I don't want to fight because I have no issue with them, but the circumstances have grown so dire that we're forced into a fight that neither wants, but neither can back down from.

 

In other words, the Arishok.

[Raizo]

You should.



I think it's important that if you have a humanoid threat then their motivations need to make sense. I was led to believe that everyone feels as if they are the star of their own personal story and deep down, no matter how horrific the crimes they commit are, they feel deep down that their actions are justified because it serves some greater good.

With threats like the Reapers, you don't need to explain everything about them ( a lot of people felt that they were over explained in ME3 ) but once again what they are doing and why they are doing it should make sense.

[MissMayhem96]

In the context of exploration of a foreign galaxy and setting up colonies (if the leak is true) with hostile resistance from the Khet and Revenant. It seems like we are the invaders this time.

[KaiserShep]

In the context of exploration of a foreign galaxy and setting up colonies (if the leak is true) with hostile resistance from the Khet and Revenant. It seems like we are the invaders this time.

 

I like the sound of this actually.

[Aren]

In the context of exploration of a foreign galaxy and setting up colonies (if the leak is true) with hostile resistance from the Khet and Revenant. It seems like we are the invaders this time.

There is no better villain than the protagonist.

[Shechinah]

So...

 

Yes, the spirit of it is what I'd like to see more of in future companions.     

[Shechinah]

There is no better villain than the protagonist.

 

Personally, I've always loved when conflict is born because people are people, neither good nor bad, and consequences is born as much of the good sides as of the bad sides.

 

I'm hoping Mass Effect: Andromeda will have some of this since I believe the story has the potential especially if the Ark needs to settle in the Andromeda for the people onboard to survive perhaps because the Ark becomes damaged.

 

The Ark and its settlers would still be invading to settle on claimed territory but the reason why they settle would be out of necessity. There could be different opinions on how to approach with some arguing or caution and others arguing power displays and being prepared to defend themselves with all means since it could mean the survival of their people. The aliens that reside in the Andromeda would likewise be of different opinions on how to approach the situation.

 

Bonus if the perspective of the Ark and its people changes depending how some events related to the plot is solved.   
 

[Natureguy85]

Personally, I've always loved when conflict is born because people are people, neither good nor bad, and consequences is born as much of the good sides as of the bad sides.

 

I'm hoping Mass Effect: Andromeda will have some of this since I believe the story has the potential especially if the Ark needs to settle in the Andromeda for the people onboard to survive perhaps because the Ark becomes damaged.

 

The Ark and its settlers would still be invading to settle on claimed territory but the reason why they settle would be out of necessity. There could be different opinions on how to approach with some arguing or caution and others arguing power displays and being prepared to defend themselves with all means since it could mean the survival of their people. The aliens that reside in the Andromeda would likewise be of different opinions on how to approach the situation.

 

Bonus if the perspective of the Ark and its people changes depending how some events related to the plot is solved.   
 

 

The setting will certainly be set up for some Fallout style choices like in New Vegas where you can choose between saving a family trapped in a vault or getting much needed water to farmers who are trying to feed the region. Or decide who gets the limited energy from a power plant (including putting it toward a super-weapon that you can get the controls for).

[Display Name Owner]

I feel like TIM had this to a certain degree, which is why looking back I get Bioware making him such a main thing. I mean, I still reckon he was grossly misused in ME3, but whatever.

 

So I guess my point is that TIM would have been a good villain if the Reapers weren't supposed to be there. I'm hoping for a more human level villain and not an ancient faceless evil. Or if it is an ancient evil, I don't want anything as grand as the Reapers were meant to be.

[Shechinah]

There was this thing I was hoping for when I heard about the protagonist gradually becoming a hero and that was how I thought it could be a neat idea if the protagonist started as the rookie member of an exploration team: over time, the protagonist would develop their relationship with the team and earn respect from their battle performance.

 

Originally, I had the thought that the team's leader disappeared or was believed to have been killed but now I'm thinking it could be interesting if the team leader either secretly manipulates the team to aid with something because the team leader believes their help serves something good or if the team leader defects to join a splinter group that believes it has the right of how they need to deal with the conflict in Andromeda. 

 

It could also be that the team leader feigned death to join the splinter group as a permanent operative on secret tasks. Depending on the relationship, the team leader took no pleasure in decieving the protagonist.

 

The splinter group are based on the belief that there are conflicts and people that need to be dealt with in a way that the Ark and the official groups cannot do because of the consequences it would have on how the much larger and stronger aliens factions sees them. The splinter group either is or pretends to be disavowed by the Ark or acts secretly and pretends to unrelated to the Ark.

 

I know the odds of it happening is small to non-existent but I thought it could be interesting to share the thought.

 

Said splinter group would not be Cerberus or related to them in any way.

[Mistic]

There was this thing I was hoping for when I heard about the protagonist gradually becoming a hero and that was how I thought it could be a neat idea if the protagonist started as the rookie member of an exploration team: over time, the protagonist would develop their relationship with the team and earn respect from their battle performance.

 

Originally, I had the thought that the team's leader disappeared or was believed to have been killed but now I'm thinking it could be interesting if the team leader either secretly manipulates the team to aid with something because the team leader believes their help serves something good or if the team leader defects to join a splinter group that believes it has the right of how they need to deal with the conflict in Andromeda.

 

I like the idea of the protagonist being a rookie, although someone with a bit of experience (maybe training to become N7? That would explain why they said that the protagonist has “something to do with N7” without saying it is indeed a N7 like Shepard). However, such a defection of a disloyal team member should happen at the beginning of the game. The situation has already been used by Bioware, by the way, in SWTOR:

Spoiler

in the Republic Trooper origin

 

But that talk of disappearances and some rumours have made me think of another possibility. Since the N7 operative shown in the trailer has been explicitely said not to be the protagonist, some have suggested that our mission may be to find him. What if he ends up being the villain of the game? Think of an Apocalypse Now-like scenario.

[Shechinah]

However, such a defection of a disloyal team member should happen at the beginning of the game. The situation has already been used by Bioware, by the way, in SWTOR:

 

Personally, I feel it would be better if the defection or disappearance does not happen in the beginning of the game as I feel later would provide the player a better chance to form an opinion and emotional connection, negative or positive, of the team member. You'd have experienced them on duty and on downtime with subtle hints appearing over a longer period.  
 

[rashie]

When the villain is being presented to the player as moustache twirling big bad who just wants the world to burn, you are not given much if any reason to. It takes some truly exceptional performance, directing, and writing to make such a villain come across as outright terrifying and menacing instead of a joke, despite lack of deeper characterization.

 

The villain should have some sort of personal connection to the player, as well as carrying a far more active role in the story rather than just being somewhere far away  until the game needs him as a story device. Bonus points for being ideologically driven rather than just binary morality. Obsidian is very good at making their narratives come across in this fashion, Bioware, not so much.

 

 

Is he a great villain yet?

Nope, still awful cause the problem with Kai Leng is a different one, its how the narrative have a disconnect between what the writers wanted and gameplay mechanics, coming across as jarring plot armour, shepard does things in cutscenes controlled by the game that'd never reasonably happen under the players control.

[goishen]

Kai Leng wasn't a villain, he was an obstacle.  Kai Leng had had his plans foiled (on the citadel), had been defeated and then needed help (on Thessia)...   So, in my mind, he was brought up properly.  He was facing off against the person who kept getting in the way. 

 

How you've managed to warp this conversation into Kai Leng as being this major bad ass character whom Shepard rivals off with and then it ends the game is somehow perplexing to me.  I mean, a similar conversation about ME2 would be, "Wasn't Warden Kuril such a badass?  I wish they had built him up more."

 

Wait...  What?

[Mistic]

Personally, I feel it would be better if the defection or disappearance does not happen in the beginning of the game as I feel later would provide the player a better chance to form an opinion and emotional connection, negative or positive, of the team member. You'd have experienced them on duty and on downtime with subtle hints appearing over a longer period. 

 

I understand. The problem is that, for gameplay reasons, in that case the traitor can't be the team leader. So far, Mass Effect (and most of Bioware's game, to be honest) have the PC as the team leader, free to decide the ship's course and the way they face the challenges.

 

Sure, Bioware is free to change that tried and tested model, but it would be a high risk gamble to get a narrative response for a character that may not play as intended. After all, a common criticism of ME3 and DA2 is the lack of agency some players feel. Bioware has written good villains without taking agency from the player; if they do it, there's a distinc possibility that the villain may become the Scrappy (as it happened in ME3).