Questa discussione ha avuto 146 risposte

[Brother Juniper]

How? You can't go up from the bottom

In this instance the game allows going up from the bottom. I guess a bug, but a useful one.

[PapaCharlie9]

In this instance the game allows going up from the bottom. I guess a bug, but a useful one.

 

Nice glitch! I tried other trees that go down to a single ability, but no luck. It's only that Assassin tree, apparently.

[RiverHillBlue1]

In this instance the game allows going up from the bottom. I guess a bug, but a useful one.

Has it always been like that? I never noticed it on my Assassin play through and just lived with wasting a point on KB. Good to have moving forward.

[the_ned]

This build is sweet. I hadn't experimented a ton with clinging shadows, so I decided to give the skill a spin in my game. Unfortunately for me, it seems that Knife in the Shadows doesn't apply to the 3 second window during which Clinging Shadows keeps you in stealth. Is anyone else experiencing this? I can clearly see it working in the videos, so it's disappointing for me since the clinging shadows/knife in the shadows combination should be one of the most optimal combinations in the game.

Edit: I kept playing around with this and here is what is happening in my case: Mark of death seems to count as a ranged attack from stealth which cancels stealth bonuses for any following attacks made (even while in stealth). For pure melee attacks the knife in the shadows bonus still applies and I was able to do a bunch of stuff that seemed pretty unfair. So tldr; mark of death from stealth seems to remove stealth bonuses, melee attacks don't. Seem correct?

[myztikrice]

Me neither, it could just be that 3 seconds is shorter than you think, something like Twin Fangs takes like 2 seconds all things considered after the animation + knockdown before another skill can go off

[tcun44]

I just wanted to cast a vote for how disgustingly good and powerful this build is. The downside is it's ruined me on playing any other rogue character. I added Fade Touched Gurn Hide to my suit of armor (30% damage bonus is not hit for 5 seconds) and added Fade Touched Nevarrite (Explode on Kill) to my Stonestalker Blade for some AOE effect. Also- the toggle on Hidden Blades- Leave No Witnesses- actually gives the Assassin a fair amount of AOE ability. Love it. Nothing compares.

[arkngt]

 

Rings - Superior Critical Damage Ring x2

 

I thought items with the same effect don't stack, so isn't one of those rings useless in this case?

 

Also, are Stone Stalker Blades really worth it, considering that you can't have upgrades on them?

 

With Stone Stalker Blades, I get 174 Damage x 161% Critical Damage Bonus = 280

With Masterwork Dual Curved Blades plus Masterwork Ornate Dagger Grips, I get 137 Damage x 221% Critical Damage Bonus = 302

 

In both cases, I have Hidden Blades on the daggers rather than Masterwork, but I guess the relative end result would be appr. the same.

 

Also, while I'm at it, when it comes to dishing out damage, isn't the Fade-Touched Hardened Gurn Hide with +30% Damage bonus if not being hit for 5 seconds ideal for a DW Rogue?

[PapaCharlie9]

I thought items with the same effect don't stack, so isn't one of those rings useless in this case?

Yes and no. The rings that are pure ability/attribute buffs, like Critical Chance +2%, do stack. The rings with names that follow the pattern "Enhanced <Ability> Ring" do not stack. Or they don't work at all, single or double use, I don't remember which.
 

Also, are Stone Stalker Blades really worth it, considering that you can't have upgrades on them?
 
With Stone Stalker Blades, I get 174 Damage x 161% Critical Damage Bonus = 280
With Masterwork Dual Curved Blades plus Masterwork Ornate Dagger Grips, I get 137 Damage x 221% Critical Damage Bonus = 302

In this case 221% crit damage might be enough to compensate for the lower base damage. In general, you'd have to find a value for C (your crit chance) that makes this inequality true:

(137 * (1 + (C * 2.21))) > (174 * (1 + (C * 1.61)))

NOTE: I don't remember if the basic 40% crit damage bonus is added to the weapon bonus, or if the weapon bonus must exceed before it's added. If it's just added, increase 2.21 and 1.61 by .40.

I guess since this build is based on the assumption that all your damage will be critical hits (C = 1.0), you are right, your upgraded weapon with higher crit damage would be better.
 

Also, while I'm at it, when it comes to dishing out damage, isn't the Fade-Touched Hardened Gurn Hide with +30% Damage bonus if not being hit for 5 seconds ideal for a DW Rogue?

I admit, I'm confused by all the "for X seconds" effects. No clue really what they mean or do. So with that in mind ...

I guess it would depend on your attack routines vs. Stealth. If you space your attacks out by 5 seconds and stay in Stealth in between, and do your best not to take damage while out of Stealth, yeah, that probably works well with this build. If you tend to pile up all your damage into the first 1 or 2 seconds, then not so much. Assuming the buff is after the 5 second interval, not during.

There's a tension/synergy between the 3 seconds of Clinging Shadows and this 5 second interval. Tension if the buff is after, synergy if it is during. Clinging Shadows is an incentive to front-load your damage in each 5 second interval. If the buff comes after, it doesn't help.

[arkngt]

^ Thanks, PapaCharlie9, that was very helpful. The rings were easy enough to check and they do stack - I just had some notion that they didn't so I've avoided using two rings with the same effect.

 

True about attack routines vs. Stealth, but most fights takes a little while and as my DW Rogue seldom gets hit (mostly if messing up or if a flank attack glitches out, which happens a lot), I think I'll get the 30% bonus most of the time, after the first 5 seconds that is (if that's how it's counted).

[arkngt]

BTW, the Sigil of the Deepstalker doesn't seem to work - there's at least no difference at all to the Attack and Flanking Bonus Damage stats when having it attached or not.

[PapaCharlie9]

BTW, the Sigil of the Deepstalker doesn't seem to work - there's at least no difference at all to the Attack and Flanking Bonus Damage stats when having it attached or not.

Setting aside my opinion that the only Sigil worth keeping is Great Bear, some buffs are not listed in the player record unless you are in combat. So check one more time while in aggro/combat state. If it is still non-functional, add a comment to this thread:

http://forum.bioware...ses-for-sigils/

[arkngt]

Setting aside my opinion that the only Sigil worth keeping is Great Bear, some buffs are not listed in the player record unless you are in combat. So check one more time while in aggro/combat state.

 

You're right - that was it. +200 flanking damage is rather sweet, but not sure if it's worth the -50 attack.

 

EDIT: To answer myself, it definitely seems to be worth it for a DW Rogue. It happens that you're handicapped by the -50 attack, as with those Corpses that turn to face you all the time, but most of the time you're flanking enemies anyway, so 9 times out of 10 it's double damage. 

[DreamSever]

You're right - that was it. +200 flanking damage is rather sweet, but not sure if it's worth the -50 attack.

 

EDIT: To answer myself, it definitely seems to be worth it for a DW Rogue. It happens that you're handicapped by the -50 attack, as with those Corpses that turn to face you all the time, but most of the time you're flanking enemies anyway, so 9 times out of 10 it's double damage. 

It is if you get the 500%flanking damage dagger, 700% is worth it, especially for a dw assassin

[PapaCharlie9]

You can't just look at the flanking bonus, since the debuff applies to all attacks, not just flanking attacks. This includes abilities that don't benefit from flanking, like Artificer mines and spike traps, etc. You have to calculate your average damage both with and without the Sigil, for both flanking and non-flanking attacks, and compare.

It would be interesting to know what the inflection point is for a DW Rogue. How high does your additional flanking bonus have to be and/or the ratio of flanking to non-flanking, to compensate for the debuff? I proved to myself that the base 200% of the Sigil is not sufficient, assuming a roughly 50/50 split of flanking vs. non-flanking, but I didn't try other ratios or mitigations.

Assuming a base 100 damage attack and 0 Attack% without debuff ...

With the Sigil

Non-Flanking = 100 * (1 - .50) = 50
Flanking = 100 * (1 - .50) * (1 + 2.00) = 150

50/50 ratio = (.5 * 50) + (.5 * 150) = 25 + 75 = 100 average damage

Without the Sigil

Non-Flanking = 100 * (1 + 0) = 100
Flanking = 100 * (1 + 0) * (1 + 0.25) = 125

50/50 ratio = (.5 * 100) + (.5 * 125) = 50 + 62.5 = 112.5 average damage

So you see that under these assumptions, the Deepstalker Sigil is a net loss. But of course, your mileage may vary if you can buff Attack% or increase the ratio of flanking to non-flanking.




 

[arkngt]

^ Yes, but a DW Rogue focuses on flanking enemies even without the sigil bonus - and, of course, with the sigil it's rather stupid not to do so - so 50/50 seems theoretical. For me it's rather 90/10 I'd guess. But you're right - it's not "double damage", but rather x1,5 damage.

 

Hm, which dagger gives av 500% flanking bonus?

 

EDIT: Ah, it's the Bosun's Blade. I'm doing Trespasser for the first time right now actually.

[punkgamer01]

just so everyone know i do more by using the coiled strike dagger from crafting + bosun blade than using the dagger from what the op says...

 

i also wonder if going that + great bear sigil will do more dmg than using deepstalker, since you loose 50% of attack. like i already got 500% flanking from bosun, its not 200% that will kill ennemy in 1 hit, since i already kill them in 1 hit lol. also, you are not always in a flanking position as a rogue, i find myself using a lot flank attack just to reposition but when i do the ennemy turn around to face me, that and with party member around its kinda hard to actually flank anything with so much going on on screen =S

 

i'd says a 50/50 is quite correct on that matters, or else you'll just spam flank attack and MAYBE, maybe do 1 or 2 abilities, then flank attack again xD

[jhood_shsu]

just so everyone know i do more by using the coiled strike dagger from crafting + bosun blade than using the dagger from what the op says...

 

i also wonder if going that + great bear sigil will do more dmg than using deepstalker, since you loose 50% of attack. like i already got 500% flanking from bosun, its not 200% that will kill ennemy in 1 hit, since i already kill them in 1 hit lol. also, you are not always in a flanking position as a rogue, i find myself using a lot flank attack just to reposition but when i do the ennemy turn around to face me, that and with party member around its kinda hard to actually flank anything with so much going on on screen =S

 

i'd says a 50/50 is quite correct on that matters, or else you'll just spam flank attack and MAYBE, maybe do 1 or 2 abilities, then flank attack again xD

use an assassin build and hit knockout bomb and knockout gas to keep enemies stunned, then flank attack with skirmisher and twin fangs or death blow from behind.  700% bonus damage buffet.

[arkngt]

Meh, I managed to miss the Bosun blade this time around as well. Apparently, you got to send Josephine on that misson. Annoying, as I wanted to test it out, but on the other hand, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't use it as a standard dagger as it's more stylish to have two identically looking daggers IMO. In fact, as much as I appreciate tips and strategies to max out damage, it's ultimately not really needed as you can manage with less then optimal builds/equipment even on nightmare + trials w/o problems.

[Brother Juniper]

Yes, use Josephine for Scout Haven Ruins, which you get after talking to Krem at Skyhold. This opens Locate Heretic Sister, where it doesn't matter who you use to get Bosun's Blade.

[DreamSever]

Soloed northern hunter nightmare due to his electric attack, must say it felt glorious, used 2 potions, hidden blades ability is lethal paired with bosuns blade, nightmare is a joke with assasssin, mobs dont see me coming and when they do its too late, interesting to see how i handle deep roads and frostback basin

[PapaCharlie9]

Bumped for Habits.

[arkngt]

So I've finally managed to get Bosun's Blade and it's insane – my Lvl 8 char basically one hit killed an Arcane Horror. So it will be hard to not use it even if doesn't match the other dagger. Might craft a similar dagger just to get them matching.

[Agi_]

I cannot get the math of this single impressive 400k dmg in the video.

 

I'm just lvl 23 and the best dagger i found is 150 dmg; supposing there is something around able to do 200, and he's using two for a 400 twin fangs hit, to reach 400k you need a 1000* bonus multiplier, what do you combine together to get it?

 

Unless obviously i'm missing something in the base mechanics bonuses multiply; twin fangs is 2* becomes 4* if flanking ; supposing a huge 200% crit dmg bonus it's another 3* and we are at 12* a long way to go to reach the needed 1000 times

[PapaCharlie9]

I cannot get the math of this single impressive 400k dmg in the video.
 
I'm just lvl 23 and the best dagger i found is 150 dmg; supposing there is something around able to do 200, and he's using two for a 400 twin fangs hit, to reach 400k you need a 1000* bonus multiplier, what do you combine together to get it?
 
Unless obviously i'm missing something in the base mechanics bonuses multiply; twin fangs is 2* becomes 4* if flanking ; supposing a huge 200% crit dmg bonus it's another 3* and we are at 12* a long way to go to reach the needed 1000 times

The short answer is that Mark of Death/Mark of Doom is a damage accumulator. Once you activate it, any damage done to the target (including from other party members? not sure about that, but certainly from you the MoD caster) is "stored" and then applied again when you trigger MoD manually as a single hit. Mark of Doom then does 150% bonus on top of that total. so if your accumulated is 100k, final damage is 150k.

So if you add up all those 20k and 40k hits prior to activation and multiply by 1.5, you'll get that 400kish hit.

The 20k and 40k hits also have some stuff you missed: passives (more damage bonuses) and Mighty Offense Tonic, which when upgraded for Crit damage, gives a 100% bonus to critical hits. Since this build guarantees that every hit from Stealth is a critical hit, that's a big DPS boost.

Sick, ain't it?

[Agi_]

OK i never used an assassin melee rogue so i didnt consider Mark of Death; the only rogue i played was a tempest machinegun ranged with a good dps but no huge single hits.

 

Definitely i have to give a try to a melee rogue; should be a lot of fun.