146 replies to this topic

[akots1]

This build is sweet. I hadn't experimented a ton with clinging shadows, so I decided to give the skill a spin in my game. Unfortunately for me, it seems that Knife in the Shadows doesn't apply to the 3 second window during which Clinging Shadows keeps you in stealth. Is anyone else experiencing this? I can clearly see it working in the videos, so it's disappointing for me since the clinging shadows/knife in the shadows combination should be one of the most optimal combinations in the game.

Edit: I kept playing around with this and here is what is happening in my case: Mark of death seems to count as a ranged attack from stealth which cancels stealth bonuses for any following attacks made (even while in stealth). For pure melee attacks the knife in the shadows bonus still applies and I was able to do a bunch of stuff that seemed pretty unfair. So tldr; mark of death from stealth seems to remove stealth bonuses, melee attacks don't. Seem correct?

This is exactly what I am encountering. I'm trying to solo single player nightmare plus most of the trials (I still can use healing potions and focus is not reset after travel as these both are just silly for a solo) with this build and some battles are just very painful. Now, I'm stuck at the Crestwood rift down in the caves. Despite taking spirit resistance belt and potion, I'm being one shot by terrors immediately after launching mark of death. I'm only level 16 but so are the enemies in the rift. Targeting by enemies is extremely bugged with clinging shadows and I'm not sure it is worth the trouble. There is also a problem with IWNH as it just plain does not trigger normally as it should.

 

For example, I'm in stealth and there are 2 terrors, 2 wraiths, and a shadow at the rift center. I start with MoD and immediately get targeted by both terrors and wraiths with homing jumps/shots. I try to move around using TF, DB, and sometimes there is enough stamina to go for FA. It does not put me to stealth, and when I trigger MoD, something dies and I go to stealth but get hit either by homing wraith projectile or side of terror knock down/whaling or by rift spikes. That puts me out of stealth and immediately one of the terrors jump in and I'm dead. I did manage to get past this third wave once due to very lucky crit walking bomb trigger essentially one shotting everything but got killed on the 4th wave.

 

Graphics are also glitching very heavily as OP has described. The stealth icon is not showing at all or showing something irrelevant as it is linked only to the stealth skill itself and not to other skills that put you in stealth. To know whether you are actually in stealth, you have to count every time you use the ability. This means that you start stealthed and then blink in and out for the duration of clinging shadows. If during blinking you use, for example, FA, it does not put you to stealth but you are still blinking although you can be targeted. Then, killing some enemy and going to stealth due to removal of cool down (IWNH) puts you to stealth and the only things that hit you are projectiles launched by wraiths when you were out of stealth. However, if something dies due to WB explosion, you are put out of stealth (apparently some enemies can see that you did this) but the graphics still are stealthy and you can use FA that puts you in stealth again while graphics are normal, non-stealthy. So, yes, it is a glitchy mess, essentially impossible to play.

 

Keep in mind that this is with trials on and everything is immune to knock down and has insane armor. Also, there are some 100K hit point wraiths in that rift. Sometimes, there are two of these and they hit like a truck for half of my hit points even with all resistances.

 

So, IMO, I might need to respec to instant stealth instead of taking clinging shadows. It helps a little bit with a bonus (you can launch one ability) but basically makes survival impossible due to bugged targeting by the enemies.

 

I do realize that this is one of the toughest battles for that build and there is no cover or any other terrain to help there with homing projectiles. So, maybe I should just come back later after taking evade. But iirc, evade does not help against homing projectiles from wraiths and arcane horrors in the open.

 

I have not been able to kill a single arcane horror yet with this build. I tried a couple of times but their damage is so high that one hit is instant death.

 

I don't have Superior battlemage armor, just using some other cloth armor instead. My dexterity is around 90 as I took a lot of armor penetration bonuses.

[akots1]

... And no crutching, er, I mean pausing.

For me this is weird also but probably due to too much mutiplayer in the past. It is very hard not to pause once you get used to it and vice versa. A lot of attack and potions animations are shorter if you pause. Can drink a potion while some end of hidden blade animation is still playing out. Otherwise, have to wait for it to finish. Also, can use more abilities in the shorter time and have less chance to be targeted by enemies. Maybe, I should try that with my Crestwood rift problem.

[akots1]

So, after almost two hours of trying the battle with various tactics, I've beaten the cursed Crestwood rift without re-speccing. But it was somewhat on the cheesy side of things, shady area so to speak. Apparently, on wave 4 of this rift, meleeing terrors or within LoS of the terrors is suicidal as they have ridiculously buffed damage. So, I went to stealth behind some narrow column, peeked out and launched MoD followed by hidden blades, immediately detonated MoD and then started running in circle around the rift at some distance to wait for stealth cool down. If I stop even for a second, terrors were able to home in and kill me. But running around helped. Then, go back to stealth, rinse and repeat. it took about 5 or 6 circles to kill everything on wave 4. One or two criticals from walking bomb surely help to speed things up. However, this is not how it is supposed to be but it works. I'll take it over coming all the way back from the cave, going to Skyhold, re-speccing and coming back in.

 

IMO, whenever there are ranged (and teleporting) enemies who are doing substantial damage (including terrors), this build goes through a lot of pain and trouble to kill things. This is mostly due to bugged/glitching clinging shadows. Groups of only melee or some weaker ranged units like most of the archers are working as intended. You can just shrug their damage off. But once in a while I met some insane damage spikes from buffed enemies. They hit harder than the bosses, have way more hit points and use abilities without any cool down. I wish there is some recipe on how to handle these buffed arcane horrors and despair demons. It is not bad when there is any type of cover but some rifts are in a completely open space. Well, I guess, it is always possible to reverse to cheesy MoD+HB+running in circles tactics.

 

Now I have Malika's guard and can finally slot deepstalker's sigil in the armor. Things should be much easier, just need to tank face the ranged units and drink the resistance tonic. These are expected to reduce the damage to some reasonable numbers.

[PapaCharlie9]

and then started running in circle around the rift at some distance to wait for stealth cool down.

Don't you have Flank Attack/Skirmisher? Since it gives you a free move to stealth, that's effectively a stealth active on an 8 second cooldown, instead of 24. You can Flank Attack thin air to go into stealth.

You also ought to have some cooldown buffs/cancellation going on with the build, but maybe you are too low level? What was your XP level when you started the Crestwood rift?

[akots1]

Don't you have Flank Attack/Skirmisher? Since it gives you a free move to stealth, that's effectively a stealth active on an 8 second cooldown, instead of 24. You can Flank Attack thin air to go into stealth.

No, does not work for me with thin air. You have to actually hit something. Attacking thin air puts FA on cool down but this type of stealth that sometimes is triggered (sometimes it does not trigger at all) resets your cool down on normal stealth ability and gives very short stealth, maybe something like 5-8 seconds. You pop out of it before cool down on MoD and HB is finished and your regular stealth goes to its normal cool down. Also, this stealth is so short, it is not even enough to regenerate stamina and it breaks IWNH. And it does not have clinging shadows. As actionhero said, there is some buggy mess with this type of stealth. You do look transparent but in many cases enemies with homing abilities can target you just fine. Pure melee enemies are getting confused though and stop targeting you.

 

Not sure, maybe I'm missing some passive or gear that makes it happen but I followed the build more or less exactly. I'm level 17 now (taken everything up to cheap shot) and it might be possible to continue with this build to see if some passives on the way do make it work better.

 

Regular FA that hits something works just fine. In multiplayer, FA of thin area does not trigger its cool down and does not put you into stealth.

[arkngt]

Having tested both combinations, I have to say that I prefer 1 Superior Ring of Critical Damage + 1 Enhanced Deathblow Ring over 2 Superior Rings of Critical Damage. Combined with Thrill of Victory, I often can finish off a bunch of baddies one after another with no cooldowns whatsoever.

[akots1]

... You also ought to have some cooldown buffs/cancellation going on with the build, but maybe you are too low level? What was your XP level when you started the Crestwood rift?

I was thinking about it and it is possible that I have some glitch that may be related to 1% heal on hit master work in the armor that fools around with stealth similar like regeneration potion does to break the mechanism of clinging shadows. I need to finally get that superior battlemage armor crafted to check if this is true. I'm now level 20 and have the same problems with homing enemies. Still can take them out with hidden blades + MoD, just takes some time.

It also heavily depends on whether the game suddenly decides to throw some over-promoted enemies. These are just plain painful to deal with.

[PapaCharlie9]

It also heavily depends on whether the game suddenly decides to throw some over-promoted enemies. These are just plain painful to deal with.

Oh, yeah. Didn't realize you had Walk Softly enabled. Perceptive can be a common trait on promoted enemies.

[akots1]

Oh, yeah. Didn't realize you had Walk Softly enabled. Perceptive can be a common trait on promoted enemies.

Yes, normal bosses including dragons are a piece of cake as their damage and abilities are scripted and apparently do not scale up due to trials. The troubles start when a wraith with 80K barrier spawns in a rift or you stumble upon a perceptive great bear with 150K hit points and 140 armor. In general, these guys one hit kill you regardless of potions or armor or anything. I bumped my spirit resistance to about maximum of 80% and still that cursed promoted wraith OHKed me meaning that the damage was close to 3000 per hit.

These enemies are trouble with any build or class, not only DW assassin rogue.

[Gya]

Yes, normal bosses including dragons are a piece of cake as their damage and abilities are scripted and apparently do not scale up due to trials. The troubles start when a wraith with 80K barrier spawns in a rift or you stumble upon a perceptive great bear with 150K hit points and 140 armor. In general, these guys one hit kill you regardless of potions or armor or anything. I bumped my spirit resistance to about maximum of 80% and still that cursed promoted wraith OHKed me meaning that the damage was close to 3000 per hit.

These enemies are trouble with any build or class, not only DW assassin rogue.

The promoted mages were ridiculous for my reaver solo. They spam mindblast, and it would OHKO me through full guard. If only the PC version of mindblast was that good....

I suspect that an archer assassin might be the best way to solo with trials.

[akots1]

Archer is certainly easier but lacks heavy punching abilities because of no Bosun blade. That thing essentially quadruples most of the damage. Also, it is somewhat tedious, certainly more tedious than DW assassin who just wrecks things especially in groups and with walking bomb. And homing projectiles are also a problem for the archer who uses leaping shot as alternative to stealth. But I might respec for a couple of levels just to see how it goes.

 

In later game, there are two annoyances. First, leveling is too fast despite experience being halved by one of the trials. That means that influence is way behind the experience and I lack a lot of useful inquisition perks like focus upgrades and damage resistance. Sometimes I even stealth through mobs to avoid getting too much experience. I think I'll hit level 27 without even starting any DLCs and might skip half of the regular content. Secondly, I still lack superior battlemage armor. I refuse to farm as it involves doing silly things like resetting system clock and visiting some places I don't want to visit. I'm not sure I understand the logic behind this Short List mechanic. Yes, I'll probably get it eventually, just have to visit the dog merchant every once in a while, so not sure what was the point.

 

I just gained whole level from 20 to 21 by finishing Here lies the Abyss. The most ridiculous thing was that Hawke (mage) was constantly killing me with her staff due to friendly fire. She did almost no damage to the enemies but her 8th critical barrage always hit me when I was doing the backstabbing thing around the enemies, no matter stealth or no stealth. So, Hawke got sacrificed to the Nightmare as the result.

[Gya]

Archer is certainly easier but lacks heavy punching abilities because of no Bosun blade. That thing essentially quadruples most of the damage. Also, it is somewhat tedious, certainly more tedious than DW assassin who just wrecks things especially in groups and with walking bomb. And homing projectiles are also a problem for the archer who uses leaping shot as alternative to stealth. But I might respec for a couple of levels just to see how it goes.

In later game, there are two annoyances. First, leveling is too fast despite experience being halved by one of the trials. That means that influence is way behind the experience and I lack a lot of useful inquisition perks like focus upgrades and damage resistance. Sometimes I even stealth through mobs to avoid getting too much experience. I think I'll hit level 27 without even starting any DLCs and might skip half of the regular content. Secondly, I still lack superior battlemage armor. I refuse to farm as it involves doing silly things like resetting system clock and visiting some places I don't want to visit. I'm not sure I understand the logic behind this Short List mechanic. Yes, I'll probably get it eventually, just have to visit the dog merchant every once in a while, so not sure what was the point.

I just gained whole level from 20 to 21 by finishing Here lies the Abyss. The most ridiculous thing was that Hawke (mage) was constantly killing me with her staff due to friendly fire. She did almost no damage to the enemies but her 8th critical barrage always hit me when I was doing the backstabbing thing around the enemies, no matter stealth or no stealth. So, Hawke got sacrificed to the Nightmare as the result.

Yeah, the damage drop might be a deal breaker.

Rogues are the only class I haven't tried soloing with so I can't speak from personal experience, but the vast majority of solo vids out there are archer assassins, it must have something going for it? Then again, most solo vids are with OP gear, mine included, so not exactly representative of low level play.

[PapaCharlie9]

That means that influence is way behind the experience and I lack a lot of useful inquisition perks like focus upgrades and damage resistance.

You need to get more agents from the Hinterlands. See link below for how to optimize a run through the Hinterlands for agents. Even without agents, use the Power for a Price mission on the War Table so you can buy Influence with gold after level 6. You have to have crap loads of gold by level 27.

EDIT: forgot to add the link ... http://forum.bioware...he-hinterlands/
 

Rogues are the only class I haven't tried soloing ...

What the? My mind is blown. Usually that's the first and often only class everyone else solos with. Used to be KE too, but not after it was nerfed. Kudos on doing Reaver before Assassin!

[akots1]

It is an option, I mean buying influence. I'm not that desperate though but maybe it comes to that. And all agents are in place. Anyhow, I'm way too far in the game to worry about these little things.

 

Reaver is, IMHO, very straightforward. There is little variety in gameplay as with all other warriors. Mages are rogues are more ... creative. Well, at least with regards of how to manage combat. Also, I've had too much reaver in multiplayer, enough for the time being.

[akots1]

Yesterday I finally got the armor and upgraded focus to level 2 with newly purchased influence. I tried it and went to rescue the avaar bear. This mission gave me  some trouble on the first try because the bear died too fast after I let her out of her cell. By the time I take off half of health bar of the main hakkonite 2H warrior, he and his archer minions are finished with the bear already. This time I went to stealth and used Mark of the Rift level 2 and pitch grenade. The bear got a bit hurt by grenade due to friendly fire but MotR did ridiculous damage basically killing all 6 hakkonites (lvl 22) within a few seconds and leaving the 7th miniboss at about 20% health for me to finish in a single death blow. I presume that total damage was around 35K or even more, not sure, for each one of the enemies in the MotR AOE for a total of whooping 250K total. Is this like it is supposed to work? It seems that all bonuses are applied (from stealth/critical, armor penetration, Bosun's blade backstabbing, etc). I tried to look for MotR spirit damage mechanics, could not find anything. If I add mighty offense tonic, it should essentially double the damage. Interestingly, there were no floating damage numbers and I had trouble moving myself when I was inside the AoE. This seems to be on the owerpowered side of things even for a DW rogue but maybe just a glitch that won't repeat itself.

[PapaCharlie9]

Based on the following video, the DoT on MotR vs. non-vulnerable/non-demon targets looks to be around 500% (173 spirit DoT vs. 33 direct damage from S&S). Give or take, since targets probably had armor. 500% may be the upper bound rather than the actual, if that is true.



Versus demons, it's probably double that, or in any case, a high enough bonus that anything but Pride Demons or promoted demons are instakilled.

[akots1]

Spirit damage should not be influenced by armor (? as any elemental magic damage barring few exceptions of blocking/glitching ?) but if it is weapon-based, it might be. I'll check out the numbers in tactician mode with and w/o stealth, Bosun's blade, and pitch grenade. It might be also that damage scales with difficulty. Anyhow, looks like it is an IWIN button although it should not be on higher difficulties. I don't recall it doing that much damage and it is mostly used to just keep the foes stationary for more backstabbing. Another possibility is that it does apply walking bomb. However, I thought that only one WB proc can be active at a time. If it is not and WB is glitching as intended and as actionhero noted, then this might be the case due to massive criticals. And each critical can hit for the whole damage making around 6K * 1.7 (my current crit bonus) = 10K on explosion. I have not seen any visual clue or spike in damage as it should be in the case of an explosion but it might still be there.

[PapaCharlie9]

Spirit damage should not be influenced by armor (? as any elemental magic damage barring few exceptions of blocking/glitching ?) but if it is weapon-based, it might be.

What I meant was that the 33 direct damage number, from an auto-attack with a 1H weapon, that I'm using as the divisor may be a lot lower than the actual base damage of the weapon, due to armor. If the actual base damage is higher, the bonus damage would be lower than 500%.

Put another way, based on that video, all I can really say is that the bonus damage is 500% or less. I can't tell you exactly what it is, but I'm confident it's not more than 500%.

[akots1]

I'm not sure about what is going on with MotR. It is certainly glitching similar to walking bomb explosions. Now, it does absolutely no damage to Imshael and his minions. None like no, nothing. Well, maybe he is supposed to be immune to MotR by design. And yes, regular damage works fine and they are all vulnerable to spirit. Anyhow, rift or no rift, I cannot survive longer that 3 seconds in that fight. There is too much homing projectiles by fearlings (25K hit points, each web hits for about 200) and two horrors (45K hit point plus barrier, physical immunity, etc, their spikes hit pretty hard as well). IMHO, it looks really bad, does not seem doable with instant knockdowns and inability to run away to recover. Any suggestions appreciated. I cannot even trigger hidden blades. I go to the other side of the area away from the enemies, pop MoD, and while HB animation plays, I get instantly downed.

[arkngt]

That's odd. I'm pretty sure Imshael has been suspectible to MotR every time I've faced him, as it's typically an ability I always use against him. I can check it very soon again, as I'm on my way to face him in my current play through.

 

EDIT: Yes, it definitely works for me and always has (I'm pretty sure). Weird glitch.

[akots1]

Uh-oh, I had to deal with cursed demon without MotR. It does absolutely no damage neither to evil guy himself nor to his associates. Maybe, this is due to trials kicking in or them being too high level, not sure. However, even without MotR, it was not that hard. Spirit tonic and an old armor with spirit resistance helped to survive a few hits from the initial onslaught of the minions and once they were dead, Imshael on his own was easier than a promoted quillback. The whole fight took under 4 minutes. It was that long because I messed up and couple of flank attacks did not hit, so I had to retreat and wait for cool downs and for stamina to regenerate.

 

I've noticed that some things are completely resistant to MotR. For example, it does not seem to hurt wolves and does very little damage to hyenas and some promoted humanoids with guard. Other regular enemies (typically under 20K hit points and 40-60 armor) just die within a second or two, I cannot even catch the damage of the ticks. Probably, need to try it on a dragon to experiment. Unfortunately, the dragons should be perceptive at level 23+, so it is difficult to test the impact of stealth. Anyhow, the damage is ridiculous and it is certainly an IWIN button. With few rare exceptions.

[arkngt]

I'm using Walk Softly and and Even Ground, so that shouldn't be it as I don't think any other trial should affect it. Also, my team was on Lvl 13, so rather low leveled for that quest. Anyway, for me it has worked every single time I've faced him and it must be 7-8 times by now, so to me it seems like a weird glitch in your case. And it definitely works on dragons.

[akots1]

Well, level 16, I presume, and 23 is a big difference. It might cause some resistances to show up. Also, there is no normal way for solo to get to the Suledin keep at level 13 IMO unless going there right away from the start. IIRC, I only got to Skyhold at level 14. Just too much experience on the way.

[akots1]

I'm now struggling with Lucanus in Still Ruins in Western Approach. He spends about 5-6 seconds in the fade and 1-2 second in reality while being immune to MotR. He can be staggered with twin fangs but still goes to fade while lying on the ground. It is not that bad however, there is hope. In one try (out of five), I brought him down to about half hit points before he killed me. Which means he is beatable as he is not perceptive. But he does an awful lot of damage with the spells and has pretty decent barrier, something around 6-10K, no more than that. Essentially, he is a role model for heartbreaker mode for multiplayer with 50K hit points at level 24. Lots of jumping around, glyphs, energy barrage, well, all sorts of bs. Pretty entertaining, I'd say.

[Agi_]

I'm running my campaign using this build, with little differences because i reached Skyhold and specialization a couple levels later, and i'm enjoying it a lot. I play NM with Even Ground; i tried Walk Softly but i removed it after being attacked by a super templar of lvl 8 with 3 friends lvl 4 - 5 just after meeting Giselle in my first mission in Haven.

 

I'm lvl 16 now and i start landing four digit damage hits and i can almost always kill an elite opponent, like tmplar knights or the mini boss in veridium mines of Emerald graves with a combo of MoD + Hidden Blades + Flank Attack + Twin Fangs, without exiting stealth, even if sometimes i have really epic fails against shield bearers, i bounce back from the shield to be killed by his next hit, and big opponents with AoE like Bears that my assassin even if positioned exactly at their back way too often doesnt attack preferring to run around to the front and often being killed by the AoE Next lvl i'll get Evade and i hope to be able to use it to avoid this.

How do you engage them ?

How do you attack grounded opponents? i never seem to get the flank bonus

 

Another issue; sometimes the char remains in stealth after the combat, apparently forever; it would not be a problem if his companions did follow him but they dont and prefer to remain a lot back so before a fight i need to go tactical, tell them to move close and only after they are nearby engage. If i use another char to lead the group then it's my rogue to lag behind; i tried activating stealth but it changes nothing i become solid only if i fast travel, losing all the guard.

 

BTW the stealth is just a graphic glitch because i realized i'm NOT invisible, just transparent in the graphic; enemies see me well