148 réponses à ce sujet

[akots1]

Perceptive promoted gladiators and other perceptive guys with tower shields are most painful opponents IMO. Non-perceptive guys can be taken out with MoD-HB as you wrote yourself. They usually never turn around to face two or three auto-attacks while HB animation plays and MoD detonation briefly stuns them. That opens them for other attacks (TF, FA, DB, throwing blades depending on how much stamina you can regenerate by auto attacks and whether there are other opponents that may target you).

Some enemies have large AoE attacks and essentially cannot be meleed. These include horrors while they charge their spikes, great bears, and occasional pride demons who use lightning whips frequently. No matter what you do, their AoE will hit. So, it might be a good idea to be very careful around these guys, watch for animations of their attacks, and get away as soon as they start.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "grounded" enemies. If it is ragdoll'ed/knocked down mooks after twin fangs or walking bomb explosion, the only ability that reliably hits them is death blow and you have to slightly move the camera to face down towards their targeting marker. If they are still alive after death blow, they usually get up and can be targeted by flank attack normally. Or, if there is not enough stamina, you can use evade in the case of melee opponents or just hop you way out of their swings.

That weird stealth can be broken by autoattacking thin air. Indeed, it is a graphical glitch. Enemies can target you just fine. It is somewhat similar to the Ring of Doubt glitch http://forum.bioware...n-is-invisible/

[akots1]

... I have not been able to kill a single arcane horror yet with this build. I tried a couple of times but their damage is so high that one hit is instant death.. ...

As the build levels up, it seems that arcane horrors are getting more manageable. Still, cannot combat them normally in the open areas at rifts even with maxed spirit resistance. At least I was able to kill all of them in Temple of Dirthamen and some Exalted Plains ramparts in the areas with plenty of cover where due to limited space, they cannot teleport/jump very far.

[Agi_]

Perceptive promoted gladiators and other perceptive guys with tower shields are most painful opponents IMO. Non-perceptive guys can be taken out with MoD-HB as you wrote yourself. They usually never turn around to face two or three auto-attacks while HB animation plays and MoD detonation briefly stuns them. That opens them for other attacks (TF, FA, DB, throwing blades depending on how much stamina you can regenerate by auto attacks and whether there are other opponents that may target you).

 

Some enemies have large AoE attacks and essentially cannot be meleed. These include horrors while they charge their spikes, great bears, and occasional pride demons who use lightning whips frequently. No matter what you do, their AoE will hit. So, it might be a good idea to be very careful around these guys, watch for animations of their attacks, and get away as soon as they start.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "grounded" enemies. If it is ragdoll'ed/knocked down mooks after twin fangs or walking bomb explosion, the only ability that reliably hits them is death blow and you have to slightly move the camera to face down towards their targeting marker. If they are still alive after death blow, they usually get up and can be targeted by flank attack normally. Or, if there is not enough stamina, you can use evade in the case of melee opponents or just hop you way out of their swings.

That weird stealth can be broken by autoattacking thin air. Indeed, it is a graphical glitch. Enemies can target you just fine. It is somewhat similar to the Ring of Doubt glitch http://forum.bioware...n-is-invisible/

 

I'm not sure but i dont think my gladiators are perceptive because i dont use Walk Softly, anyway also standard gladiators can stop your MoD and HB with the shield; once you manage to flank them you can autohit them safely it's rare they turn against you.

 

The problem with enemies grounded, by TF or by Cassandra Shield Bash or Charging Bull is not hitting them, it's backstabbing them for meaningful damage; i noticed a huge difference beetween a standard attack and one from the back, some five ten times more, and knocked down opponents seem to have no back while on the ground

 

With horrors what i found work best is having them frozen then no FA but turn to their back and TF detonating the frozen for a huge shatter damage bonus, too bad bears cannot be frozen and i noticed that if i manage to panic them i'm almost unable to catch them with a meaningful attack: FA hits the void most of times leaving me unstealthed with stealth in cooldown, TF is too slow to catch a fleeing opponent, only HB works but it doesnt detonate over the panic apart having a long cooldown; here is when i miss having a ranged rogue and switching weapons during combat is not allowed otherwise ii'd carry a bow and spend a point in long shot, just duchess Florianne of Wicked Eyes can do that

 

I have Dorian with the ring of doubt but havent tried yet strange things because he's so squishy that a bad glare from a distant demon is enough to knock him out; the ring would be nice if i could tell him to stop and do nothing but unless i'm controlling him even with AI turned off he will attack someone and break the stealth

[akots1]

I have no experience with full party as I've been soloing from the beginning all combat but for running/panicked opponents, pitch grenade works pretty well. It does not stun bears or gladiators but considerably slows down their movement as well as their attack animations so you have more time to hop out or use evade and regenerate stamina. The radius of the pitch is rather small though and it does not work well when they are close to the edge of the pitch. Also, you can carry 7 grenades with superior grenade belt although apparently only one can be active at a time. With all upgrades it lasts for a while and essentially doubles the damage and halves their damage. Combined with mighty offense potion, this really kicks ass and can wipe the whole rift wave of shadows or any group of clustered enemies in a single walking bomb explosion if timed right.

[akots1]

... The problem with enemies grounded, by TF or by Cassandra Shield Bash or Charging Bull is not hitting them, it's backstabbing them for meaningful damage; i noticed a huge difference beetween a standard attack and one from the back, some five ten times more, and knocked down opponents seem to have no back while on the ground ...

Yes, this might be the case with auto attacks. However, death blow does pretty good job and also should ideally be a critical hit as you are still in stealth due to clinging shadows after starting with twin fangs. With high enough dexterity (over 100) and some armor penetration (I have about 40% from gear plus abilities for overall maybe 70-80-90%), DB can hit pretty hard, something in the range of 3-6K on wounded enemies with around 30% health. It is an easy way of dispatching a crowd of regular mooks. If the enemy is dead after DB, you can just go back to stealth. If not, there should be enough stamina to use flank attack and go back to stealth for another backstab run.

[Agi_]

I have no experience with full party as I've been soloing from the beginning all combat but for running/panicked opponents, pitch grenade works pretty well. It does not stun bears or gladiators but considerably slows down their movement as well as their attack animations so you have more time to hop out or use evade and regenerate stamina. The radius of the pitch is rather small though and it does not work well when they are close to the edge of the pitch. Also, you can carry 7 grenades with superior grenade belt although apparently only one can be active at a time. With all upgrades it lasts for a while and essentially doubles the damage and halves their damage. Combined with mighty offense potion, this really kicks ass and can wipe the whole rift wave of shadows or any group of clustered enemies in a single walking bomb explosion if timed right.

 

Never used pitch grenades; my standard equipment for almost all chars is Healing and Regen potion plus one antivan fire and three I WIN NOW flasks of bees with a few of them you can kill a dragon and one is enough if not to kill to soften a lot pride demons and arcane horrors 

Now i carry with main char a damage tonic even if it's not yet fully upgraded, need an herb that i think grows only in Hissing Wastes or Emprise

 

Yes, this might be the case with auto attacks. However, death blow does pretty good job and also should ideally be a critical hit as you are still in stealth due to clinging shadows after starting with twin fangs. With high enough dexterity (over 100) and some armor penetration (I have about 40% from gear plus abilities for overall maybe 70-80-90%), DB can hit pretty hard, something in the range of 3-6K on wounded enemies with around 30% health. It is an easy way of dispatching a crowd of regular mooks. If the enemy is dead after DB, you can just go back to stealth. If not, there should be enough stamina to use flank attack and go back to stealth for another backstab run.

 

I'm atm still far from those dex and penetration values; against soft targets like mages and archers i hit for 4 5k dmg, a clean kill if detonating or if combined with TF but it goes down a lot if targets are armored; i'm just lvl 17 and i dont want to use the schematic of the deep roads dagger until i reach at least lvl 20 it looks too much a sort of cheating. Bosun works wonders when i'm flanking, crap if the target is facing me even if i'm invisible and i use the damage tonic only if i'm fighting a boss, yes i'm lazy an i dont want to go often to refill the 4 i have

[arkngt]

Now i carry with main char a damage tonic even if it's not yet fully upgraded, need an herb that i think grows only in Hissing Wastes or Emprise

 

Mighty Offense Tonic is amazing when fully upgraded - I'd say a must have for DW Rogues. Guess you mean either Arbor Blessing or Rashvine Nettle. You can find Arbor Blessing easy enough in Emprise as there are a bunch of them around the starting village. Rashvine Nettle is harder to find. I tend to head to Chateau d'Onterre in Emerald Graves as soon as I can, partly because I think it's a fun little quest, but also because you'll find Rashvine Nettle close to the entrance.

[PapaCharlie9]

Mighty Offense Tonic is amazing when fully upgraded - I'd say a must have for DW Rogues. Guess you mean either Arbor Blessing or Rashvine Nettle. You can find Arbor Blessing easy enough in Emprise as there are a bunch of them around the starting village. Rashvine Nettle is harder to find. I tend to head to Chateau d'Onterre in Emerald Graves as soon as I can, partly because I think it's a fun little quest, but also because you'll find Rashvine Nettle close to the entrance.

Rashvine Nettle is also in EdL, at least two right near the first camp, to the south, another one on the north edge of the central island of the frozen Elfsblood.

The Critical Damage bonus is indeed the most important upgrade for any rogue build. The Guard and Barrier upgrades don't hurt either. After all, the OP says:

- Mighty Offense Tonic is needed to push your damage to the next level. Upgrade this asap and carry a lot on you. It only costs 1 elfroot and 1 embrium to make and you can buy both

[arkngt]

Rashvine Nettle is also in EdL, at least two right near the first camp, to the south, another one on the north edge of the central island of the frozen Elfsblood.

 

Yes, you'll find one here and there in the game. The neat thing about the location in Emerald Graves is that you find enough of them in one place for all upgrades.

[Gya]

Rashvine Nettle is also in EdL, at least two right near the first camp, to the south, another one on the north edge of the central island of the frozen Elfsblood.

The Critical Damage bonus is indeed the most important upgrade for any rogue build. The Guard and Barrier upgrades don't hurt either. After all, the OP says:

- Mighty Offense Tonic is needed to push your damage to the next level. Upgrade this asap and carry a lot on you. It only costs 1 elfroot and 1 embrium to make and you can buy both

It's such a shame that mages can't use it, lyrium tonics can't really compare

[Agi_]

I was just short of Rashvine, problem solved, now finishing the Emerald Graves i have a lot of it the the potion fully upgraded.

 

I just had an interesting fight against the dragon in the graves. I was carrying along the Bull, that's by far IMHO the weakest of the warriors being just a lil bit more resilient than my rogue, to try trigger some fun dialogue with Dorian because i never happened to hear them, and after finishing the chateaux i saw the dragon and i decided to give a run to him.

Spent one third of the time rising the bull with my rogue, another third rising my rogue with the bull and the remaining part doing dps; a long fun fight indeed considering that both mages had electric staves and just Dorian had some fire spell What i found annoying, apart the IB painting all the screen red landing a single blow and falling unconscious, was that my rogue after MoD and HB, when was the time to do some damaging TB or DBlooked at a leg and decided it was not the right spot, then to the ribs, not good either, the tail, maybe thre is something better, exited stealth to be stomped by a back leg    Luckily i had some flasks of Molotoff cocktail and they did the job fine. Autotargeting in tactical againg large targets is often something i fail to understand 

 

The potions work great, the only problem is that i oftes thing: why use them on a dragon, better wait for something more challenging, after all i have just four with me and making them requires one of my precious elfroots 

[arkngt]

The potions work great, the only problem is that i oftes thing: why use them on a dragon, better wait for something more challenging, after all i have just four with me and making them requires one of my precious elfroots 

 

Yeah, but then you really don't need a perfect build and maxed out weapons/items in the game either considering that the game isn't that hard even on Nightmare with trials, so it is a bit of overkill.

 

My inkies are Elfroot junkies, so I tend to buy them in bulk at the Crossroads. Basically, I click until my index finger gets tired (why didn't Bioware let you choose amounts, as in The Descent?).

[Agi_]

Yeah, but then you really don't need a perfect build and maxed out weapons/items in the game either considering that the game isn't that hard even on Nightmare with trials, so it is a bit of overkill.

 

My inkies are Elfroot junkies, so I tend to buy them in bulk at the Crossroads. Basically, I click until my index finger gets tired (why didn't Bioware let you choose amounts, as in The Descent?).

 

In fact i'm playing a class i dont know how to play in NM with Even grounf, i'm having fun but i think i have been wiped away no more than three four times till now, mostly because i'm taken by the rogue fight and i forget to notice that my mages are under attack

I'm just trying to replicate what you see in the movie of the OP where he's almost still near the dragon landing deadly blows for huge damage in quick combinations; my rogue looks like a moron; keeps moving around with no reason to and when hitting i'm happy to see a four digit damage, i'm happy to see a 5k to be honest 

 

Yes, why u cannot type 50 when you buy something in bulk like in almost all games 

[akots1]

Targeting dragon parts indeed can be very frustrating even on tactical screen. It seems that Mark of the Rift greatly helps as it sort of fixes the dragon in place to prevent violent jumping around. I've killed three dragons so far and they all have similar problem with regard to targeting. I tried Highland Ravager without MotR, could not hit from the back reliably, and died 3 or 4 times trying. She herself does not hit very hard but jumps around a lot. Then at some point, dragonlings come and they actually do more damage or so it seems.

[akots1]

... I'm just trying to replicate what you see in the movie of the OP where he's almost still near the dragon landing deadly blows for huge damage in quick combinations...

 

Well, IMO, actionhero has uploaded just some perfect example. It might take a few, more like not so few, probably a dozen tries to get what he got.
 

[Agi_]

Why are there Explosive Shot and Pincushion?  

 

First Blood in his description doesnt tell of a bow so it should work also with daggers but ES and Pincushion say bow so ES is a necessary step but unless there is a glitch i should not get an increasing bonus hitting with daggers 

[PapaCharlie9]

Why are there Explosive Shot and Pincushion?  
 
First Blood in his description doesnt tell of a bow so it should work also with daggers but ES and Pincushion say bow so ES is a necessary step but unless there is a glitch i should not get an increasing bonus hitting with daggers

Explosive shot is a throwaway. The point is to get to Pincushion, which does appear to work for Throwing Blades. Not that Throwing Blades really needs the additional buff -- it's a monster by itself.

[Agi_]

OK Throwing Blades is considered a 'bow' attack being ranged; HB is ranged too but i dont think Pincushion applies there too because the animation shows a ghost of myself darting away and hitting

I imagine that the first dagger of TB is standard while 2nd 3rd and 4th gain 5 10 15% bonus thanks to pincushion

 

I agree that TB is a monster attack; less moster that HB that's the gem of the assassin tree, but more reliable than TB with his pathing problems

 

I'm not complaining too much because the build is fun and i'm having no problems running NM with Even Ground but i cannot even come close to the numebers i see in the OP movie not even getting close to them; i land 5 6k hits, i'm happy when i land a 5 digits one but thay are always in the low 10k think i never ever hit for 20k

 

Need to work some on improving equipment killing a few dragons.

[PapaCharlie9]

I'm not complaining too much because the build is fun and i'm having no problems running NM with Even Ground but i cannot even come close to the numebers i see in the OP movie not even getting close to them; i land 5 6k hits, i'm happy when i land a 5 digits one but thay are always in the low 10k think i never ever hit for 20k

Don't forget that the video uses Mighty Offense tonic, which with upgrades, doubles critical damage. So a 10k critical hit with MO would be a 20k hit.

Are you flanking? What is your flanking damage bonus? In the video, given the Sigil of Deepstalker, he's getting at least 200% flanking damage bonus. That's triple damage.

So a 3.5k critical hit from flanking with MO would be a 20k hit.

[Agi_]

Don't forget that the video uses Mighty Offense tonic, which with upgrades, doubles critical damage. So a 10k critical hit with MO would be a 20k hit.

Are you flanking? What is your flanking damage bonus? In the video, given the Sigil of Deepstalker, he's getting at least 200% flanking damage bonus. That's triple damage.

So a 3.5k critical hit from flanking with MO would be a 20k hit.

I have the fully upgraded tonic but, apart when i forget to use it, i use it only with elite/boss fights and those enemies have a 100+ armor against my 50ish AP

 

I tried using the Bosun and the Sigil but i noticed that way too many times:

 

The opponent i was attacking with FA turns toward me, even if he's not perceptive, and also that FA often fails to put me in stealth (even if that is another matter that would cause a way more deep revision of the build)

My rogue turns around the opponent to unflank him 

Every time i move around is one more chance to fall into the 'paralized until you exit tactical and jump bug' so i try to move the less i reasonably can; this bug hurts a rogue a lot more than it does to a ranged

 

What puzzles me more of the video is seeing him standing still and landing a deadly hit after the other, my rogue does a crazy dance around the drgon with a raw numer of attacks thats one third of the OP

 

Now i will give another try at Bosun and Deepstalker; once i land a 25 30k i will be happy

[PapaCharlie9]

What puzzles me more of the video is seeing him standing still and landing a deadly hit after the other, my rogue does a crazy dance around the drgon with a raw numer of attacks thats one third of the OP

He used Mark of the Rift first on the dragon. That slows time for the target. Plus, it started out sleeping. There's a good 3 to 5 seconds before a sleeping dragon wakes up enough to attack or move.

[akots1]

I'm coming pretty close to the numbers in the video with careful positioning, something like 16-18K with mighty offense potion and 12-13K per hit without the potion. I don't have some bonuses because I did not farm imbued tusket hides and don't have ice dragon hide but I've put some armor penetration (around 40%), Together with Gaps in Armor passive from assassin tree (25%) and Ambush from Subterfuge tree at 50% penetration (works for around 6 seconds after first attack from stealth, and that probably does not include clinging shadows additional stealth time), this gives a total of close to 100% armor penetration for majority of the attacks. On average, IMO, it looks more like 80%, maybe 90%. This also needs 120+ dexterity and rift mark + pitch grenade are very helpful for targeting as dragons get way less jumpy for the first 10 seconds of combat.

[Agi_]

He used Mark of the Rift first on the dragon. That slows time for the target. Plus, it started out sleeping. There's a good 3 to 5 seconds before a sleeping dragon wakes up enough to attack or move.

 

Isnt the Highland Ravager the dragon in the hinterlands that starts bombin with fireballs as soon as you exit from the tunnel and keeps doing so until you reach his lair at the end of the valley? Doesnt seem very sleeping

 

I'm coming pretty close to the numbers in the video with careful positioning, something like 16-18K with mighty offense potion and 12-13K per hit without the potion. I don't have some bonuses because I did not farm imbued tusket hides and don't have ice dragon hide but I've put some armor penetration (around 40%), Together with Gaps in Armor passive from assassin tree (25%) and Ambush from Subterfuge tree at 50% penetration (works for around 6 seconds after first attack from stealth, and that probably does not include clinging shadows additional stealth time), this gives a total of close to 100% armor penetration for majority of the attacks. On average, IMO, it looks more like 80%, maybe 90%. This also needs 120+ dexterity and rift mark + pitch grenade are very helpful for targeting as dragons get way less jumpy for the first 10 seconds of combat.

 

Arent dragons immune to all physical effects? that include for sure stun, bashing to the ground and similar but should include also stick grenades and MotR

 

ATM i'm lvl 27 with:

 

120 dex, 34 cunning, 12 willpower that give me 13 attack, 44 AP 170 crit dam, 17 crit chance and 260 flank bonus

 

I use a crafted dagger with 421 dps 164 dam and 10% of walking bomb and the Bosun of the offhand even if i'm not sure it's better than another crafted and the Deepstalker sigil, another thing i'm not sure of lets say just testing it.

 

I'm running JoH where most opponent are very heavily armored with 100 120 armor and sometimes, nor very often indeed i can land one 11k paired with a 6k without using the potion because i always forget to in the rare events that the AI agrees that the hitting fat soft belly of a spider is better that running around to hit his head

 

Maybe somewhere in my armor or my dagger i have Tusked hides, they get angry when you attack the lizard that's eating them, but i havet found yet the ice dragon

[akots1]

Pitch grenade sort of works on dragons. It does slow down their attack and movement animations. I'm not sure about actual movement speed because they don't normally move, just jump around. It does not stun when it is thrown, so this part does not work. It also reduces their damage and increases my damage to them. It seems that pitch grenade has different mechanics from regular slow debuff applied through an ability or combo detonation.

 

Movement freeze from MotR mostly works but indeed, occasionally, it does not work and dragon can get through with a couple of moves but then goes back to immobile state. Looks like there is some D&D type saving throw for her to break away. I'd say, working as intended.

 

Highland ravager is sleeping in the last, most eastern theater in Emprise du Lion http://dragonage.wik...ighland_Ravager.

[akots1]

... I'm running JoH where most opponent are very heavily armored with 100 120 armor and sometimes, nor very often indeed i can land one 11k paired with a 6k without using the potion because i always forget to ...

It seems that your regular hit is 6K and you crit for 11K and with the potion, these 11K should be around 16-17-18K depending on presence of barrier/guard and on actual armor of the target. I have similar stats to yours and this is what I get.