There still were plenty of people that cancelled their subscriptions to HBO because of it and most of the talk I saw about it was negative, just like what happened with Mass Effect 3.
No "Space Magic"...?
Well, this series isn't for you then.
I think he rather meant no left-field shift in central conflict.
ME3 ending was quite intense and interesting! Bioware has always impressed me with their ability to ramp up drama and intensity like that, rarely does a trilogy sustain that energy throughout each iteration.. I was like whoa! ME3 in general was quite intense.
Sometimes, I think perhaps many people first encounter Bioware with DA/ME, consequently weren't used to that level of intensity (as opposed to just another random FPS) and were just quite shocked to experience something like that.
I mean I went back and checked back on the other games, and KOTOR is more intense, actually... and NWN is more intense and engaging than that, and Baldur's Gate more intense and engaging than that.
I think one day a lot of people will change their opinions on it, and possibly regret their actions / behavior.
And maybe they'll also try those other games to see that is just the tip of the iceberg...
Can we please just not. It's like listening to the world's most annoying broken record.
It's going to have a DAI or ME1 ending.
All this proves is that a lot of people have lousy taste.
You do realize that if I ever used this argument about Mass Effect 3, you'd tear me apart, right? 
You do realize that if I ever used this argument about Mass Effect 3, you'd tear me apart, right?
Yep. But the Sopranos is objectively good.
Never watched it so won't comment
I just want the option of a "Disney end" too.
We played 3 games, and for what?
Lot of work, we saved the world yes but not for us. I am maybe wrong but i just expected save the world and go back to home with Miranda.
I just want the option of a "Disney end" too.
We played 3 games, and for what?
Lot of work, we saved the world yes but not for us. I am maybe wrong but i just expected save the world and go back to home with Miranda.
If it doesn't make sense it doesn't make sense. Nobody is ruling anything out as nobody but Bioware even knows what Andromeda's story will be like, but even in a game that has choices there's linearity. Mass Effect 1 is linear enough that you can't suddenly turn and work with the Reapers and Saren for example, because thematically and in terms of focus of the plot it makes no sense to do so. If the climax of Andromeda has no room for a happy Disney ending, then there shouldn't be one even with choices.
That said, I do hope this game has a satisfying heroic ending, but I would take a substantial tragedy over a shallow hero's journey any day and I'm not pointing at anything specific when I say that. Most people loved the ending of The Last of Us because it was totally honest to what the story was. For the last time, ME3's ending's big problem is not that it's sad or that it doesn't rub you exactly in the way you like it in terms of where YOU wanted it to go, but because it's a totally dishonest conclusion from Bioware to their own story... just strictly from a literary perspective if you have to objectify it as being a bad ending.
That said, I wanted to get rid of the Reapers and go back home with Miranda too. I wanted that perfect happy ending as a player too, but I would respect Bioware for not letting me do so if the ending they made had been a good conclusion for their trilogy.
If it doesn't make sense it doesn't make sense. Nobody is ruling anything out as nobody but Bioware even knows what Andromeda's story will be like, but even in a game that has choices there's linearity. Mass Effect 1 is linear enough that you can't suddenly turn and work with the Reapers and Saren for example, because thematically and in terms of focus of the plot it makes no sense to do so. If the climax of Andromeda has no room for a happy Disney ending, then there shouldn't be one even with choices.
That said, I do hope this game has a satisfying heroic ending, but I would take a substantial tragedy over a shallow hero's journey any day and I'm not pointing at anything specific when I say that. Most people loved the ending of The Last of Us because it was totally honest to what the story was. For the last time, ME3's ending's big problem is not that it's sad or that it doesn't rub you exactly in the way you like it in terms of where YOU wanted it to go, but because it's a totally dishonest conclusion from Bioware to their own story... just strictly from a literary perspective if you have to objectify it as being a bad ending.
That said, I wanted to get rid of the Reapers and go back home with Miranda too. I wanted that perfect happy ending as a player too, but I would respect Bioware for not letting me do so if the ending they made had been a good conclusion for their trilogy.
I
For the last time, ME3's ending's big problem is not that it's sad or that it doesn't rub you exactly in the way you like it in terms of where YOU wanted it to go, but because it's a totally dishonest conclusion from Bioware to their own story... just strictly from a literary perspective if you have to objectify it as being a bad ending.
I don't see what you're getting at there about Bio being "dishonest."
I mean Dishonest for a lack of a better term, but I guess I can try to explain it:
Dishonest in the sense that the ending is pretentious AF. In all art (and objectively you can safely say that writing is such) authenticity is a big deal. As a musician who's spoken a lot to fellow musicians there's disagreements on whether or not you can be objective about authenticity, but regardless I think the ending is inauthentic aka dishonest. What I mean is the same thing I keep reiterating, and the TLoU team even touched on this in a video I saw: They originally had a happy ending for TLoU where Joel and Ellie just had an agreement and the game faded out but it "felt dishonest" and the reason it did that must've been because it would've been surgarcoating the narrative. Mass Effect 3 could've easily had an authentic happy ending though. It would've been a stretch, but there'd been enough victory and unity and forming alliances in the game that making a simple "defeat the reapers, hoorah!" ending would've felt like a logical conclusion, thematically even if logistically it seemed implausible.
Synthesis is an example of how the current endings are dishonest. They present something with very wrong implications as if it's desireable and perfect. That's dishonest, and that's why I say the endings are "dishonest". They conclude the plot by cheating or sugarcoating itself, in all 3 endings moreso with extended cut. On a superficial level it feels better but on reflection it's not. But Bioware is all about fantasies and wish-fulfilment and have been for quite some time, so dishonesty in writing is kind of in their DNA and there was plenty of it in DA:I as well.
Even KOTOR 1 has some pretty dishonest writing where they present the force as if it's something that controls your destiny and not as much about individual strength, and I think that was their own interpretation and not a canonized thing they just took from George Lucas. It was why Chris Avellone created KOTOR 2's plot out of hate for Star Wars and KOTOR 1 because he felt it was wrong... dishonest, if you will
How about no more ME3 type endings in anything BioWare ever creates again. It would be for the best.
Did you play DA:I? Could you feel how much their bowing down to the will of fans hurt that game? It was one big apology... with some gold nuggets, but vastly overshadowed by Bioware's fear of committing to their own wants or ideas. That game's ending was terrible but for the opposite reason. It was all about congratulating the player but it had no impact and it felt way too safe.
I mean Dishonest for a lack of a better term, but I guess I can try to explain it:
Dishonest in the sense that the ending is pretentious AF. In all art (and objectively you can safely say that writing is such) authenticity is a big deal. As a musician who's spoken a lot to fellow musicians there's disagreements on whether or not you can be objective about authenticity, but regardless I think the ending is inauthentic aka dishonest.
So, if I were a musician who listened to the same art as you, we agreed that it was bad. And then I came to you and said, "But this piece of music does have something else to it." You scoffed, and then I would be out of the club that could "objectively" listened to music simply because you got offended?
It's the same thing here. You don't like it because it offends your sensibilities. Your elitism is showing.
Never watched it so won't comment
I've never seen the show either.
Since ME3 had the pull this, jump into this and shoot this endings, why not have Andromeda have the push that, jump out of that and hit that endings? hahahaha.
I wouldn't be surprised if its just one ending like what DAI had.
*snip*
You do realize all this is simply your opinion. I played DAI and I enjoyed the ending (even more after Trespasser). I found the final battle a bit easy difficulty wise, but I was satisfied with it.
You complain about ME3's ending because there was no "Yay we bet the reapers, now let us ride off into the sunset" (which I think would have been the worst possible ending. I rarely choose destroy because dying at the end of ME3 fits my Shepards), but then criticize DAI because that was the ending it had (at least without trespasser). There are some people who like to criticize or "hate on" things just because it's trendy or edgy, and they look down on anyone who doesn't share their views/opinions. They think it makes them seem more artistic/worldly/special doesn't, it makes them seem obnoxious and small minded.
I'd go a somewhat diferent way with that. I think the issue is that Bio doesn't actually think they are in the wish-fulfillment business in the first place, even though that's how their choices typically operate. The only thing the DE plot and the final plot have in common is that they were both going to offer only choices with some bad consequences to the player. This makes sense if you think that the games were about making hard choices, but as we both know, the games are about avoiding making the hard choices -- unless you're into having a bad outcome this time through.Synthesis is an example of how the current endings are dishonest. They present something with very wrong implications as if it's desireable and perfect. That's dishonest, and that's why I say the endings are "dishonest". They conclude the plot by cheating or sugarcoating itself, in all 3 endings moreso with extended cut. On a superficial level it feels better but on reflection it's not. But Bioware is all about fantasies and wish-fulfilment and have been for quite some time, so dishonesty in writing is kind of in their DNA and there was plenty of it in DA:I as well.
You sure that isn't a legitimate reading of the prequel trilogy? Turns out that "restoring balance to the Force" means that the Sith get a chance to run stuff for a while.Even KOTOR 1 has some pretty dishonest writing where they present the force as if it's something that controls your destiny and not as much about individual strength, and I think that was their own interpretation and not a canonized thing they just took from George Lucas.
Played it, have no idea what you're talking about. You're not going to go off about SJWs again, are you?Did you play DA:I? Could you feel how much their bowing down to the will of fans hurt that game? It was one big apology... with some gold nuggets, but vastly overshadowed by Bioware's fear of committing to their own wants or ideas. That game's ending was terrible but for the opposite reason. It was all about congratulating the player but it had no impact and it felt way too safe.
I think the DAI ending is mediocre but its mediocrity isn't to do with the fact it provides a heroic victory or any reaction to ME3's trainwreck. It's that the end encounter really pales in comparison with the attack on Haven. Last ditch attack on Skyhold would have been my preference.
What about a Sopranos style ending, just cut to black suddenly?
I wanted to know what happened to all my current and former squad mates after Shepard made his/her choice, Bioware didn't have to do a big fmv but I wanted a line of text for each squad mates explaining what happened after the Reaper War was over.
I would really like if MEA had ending slides like DAI did. Even if some of the outcomes are less than ideal.
I would really like if MEA had ending slides like DAI did. Even if some of the outcomes are less than ideal.
I never really understood how people couldn't get the Soprano's ending like that. It doesn't even require critical thinking. So either people are critically stupid beyond belief, or they just weren't paying attention to what was happening in that scene.The difference is that they were people who just didn't get the Sopranos ending and thought nothing happened, when
Spoiler
It's not really comparable to ME3's endings in that with ME3 what you saw was really and unfortunately what you got. It was also poorly written, a criticism that couldn't be accurately leveled against the Soprano's finale.
You complain about ME3's ending because there was no "Yay we bet the reapers, now let us ride off into the sunset" (which I think would have been the worst possible ending. I rarely choose destroy because dying at the end of ME3 fits my Shepards), but then criticize DAI because that was the ending it had (at least without trespasser). There are some people who like to criticize or "hate on" things just because it's trendy or edgy, and they look down on anyone who doesn't share their views/opinions. They think it makes them seem more artistic/worldly/special doesn't, it makes them seem obnoxious and small minded.
He's not complaining the DAI had a "Beat the bad guy, go home and party" ending. He's complaining that this is the only ending. Just as ME3 only has a bittersweet," The Shepard dies for our sins" ending. (Yes, yes, breath scene nonsense).
Having a real variety of endings would account for both. And given both games have a "power" system which measure's your organization's strengths, there's no real reason there shouldn't have been such a variety of endings.
I'd go a somewhat diferent way with that. I think the issue is that Bio doesn't actually think they are in the wish-fulfillment business in the first place, even though that's how their choices typically operate. The only thing the DE plot and the final plot have in common is that they were both going to offer only choices with some bad consequences to the player. This makes sense if you think that the games were about making hard choices, but as we both know, the games are about avoiding making the hard choices -- unless you're into having a bad outcome this time through.
It's not about wish fulfillment. It's about telling a coherent story. The story itself might be a wish-fulfillment one. But that is not necessarily the case. It's about having the freedom to tell a happy or tragic story depending on the choices you make. As it is, no matter how perfect a run Shepard has through the three games, he or she is going to hit a brick wall with the Catalyst. FailShep is the one the ending caters to. Not a successful one.
Similarly, no matter how well or poorly the Inquisition is built up, the Herald of Andraste is going to kick Corypheus's @$$ and go home. You can't even select Cole to go with you on the final run if you haven't done his personal quest (as he would still be vulnerable to being bound by Cory otherwise)
What are you actually saying should have been done with Synthesis? They should have somehow lampshaded the moral unacceptability of the choices? Or is that impossible, and they should have made the consequences worse so players wouldn't get the idea that they're doing the right thing?
Synthesis should never have existed as an option, let alone as the "ideal" one. Moral acceptability aside, it was never something the trilogy ever explored, save perhaps in Reaper reproduction.
Its funny how people want to criticize ME3's ending for "space magic" when ME2's intro has some serious space magic, yet the intro is praised.
I don't get it? What was space magicky about the Normandy getting blown out of the sky and then prosthetic advances being used to rebuild Shepard? How is that in the same ballpark as a weirdo electronic kid that commands giant sentient space vehicles that destroy civilizations unless someone grabs console and types kill -9?
I'm on Hydrocodone for post-op right now so if my reasoning is off...I'll feel the sting of failure during my re-read. Be kind, is all, lol
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