161 réponses à ce sujet

[DragonRacer]

One does have to appreciate the irony. Personally I'm indifferent to multiplayer in and of itself and greatly prefer singleplayer, but nothing is quite so awkward or as golden as discussions on the biochemistry of quarian bodily fluids, and the wonders of the companion discussion boards. It was kind of sad what happened to the Jacobmancers though. To think that all 5 of them perished by being sucked into a singularity. 

 

It just grinds my gears that there's such an "us vs them" mentality on these boards regarding SP and MP.

 

For one, MP is not the alpha and omega of forum trolldom here, so anyone that points at our trolls as a reason for being anti-MP while ignoring the troll-shaped splinters in their own SP eyes ticks me off.

 

And creating a whole "us vs them" dynamic in the first place ticks me off, too. Because a lot - I mean, a LOT - of the people playing MP were, guess what? SP fans and/or still ARE SP fans. It's not like BioWare added an MP element and it was entirely filled by CoD players who had never even heard of Mass Effect or Dragon Age before. No, almost everybody playing MP was a SP fan who decided to check it out. But it's like that factor never enters the rabid SP-only posters' minds. If you played and liked MP at all, then you are a dirty, awful pro-MP player and a blight. I won't even get into the fact that the ME3MP forum was literally the only safe haven for anyone who actually liked ME3 in any capacity during the mass riots over the ME3 SP endings. I stopped looking at the story and character boards because you couldn't exist there with any semblance of peace. I spent a solid two years secluded in the ME3MP forum so we could talk about the parts of the game we actually liked before I started peeking my head back into the SP forums.

 

I hate it. I love BOTH SP and MP, but find myself constantly having to defend the MP community because some people are so tunnel-visioned in the forum viewpoint that it's, quite frankly, not entirely healthy. The "us vs them" mentality and the "if you're not with us, you're against us" way of thinking is one of the worst things about our actual, real life world and a lot of the problems in it stem from that very root concept.

[Ahglock]

Both.

As for the assets or negative impact debate. There is no way too really prove it one way or the other. If MP was never on the table would the SP game have a bigger budget, smaller, same? Whether it's a different bid or not is irrelevant as MP is always something to consider. So EA might always go into bid 1 thinking well they are also going to ask for another X for MP so at most this game gets X. But it could be a opposite mentality as they may see MP based micro transactions as there best option. So they might think we need to give them a big SP budget to draw people into the MP micro transaction market. And therefore get a bigger SP budget.

Does map design, class balance etc get effected. In some games sure. But did MP design negatively impact SP design in ME? We can't really say, they even kept certain changed seperate. Re-used mp map? Well maybe they never would have even added that side content without that cost savings. And besides the best maps were the MP ones. The SP only maps were awful.

While I can't prove it I think MP had a positive effect on ME3s SP game. And besides the MP was awesome. Far better than the SP game.

[Xerxes52]

Single player is why I play Bioware games, but I'd still enjoy a well made co-op MP mode like ME3MP (not DAMP though).

[Pee Jae]

I sit firmly in DragonRacer's camp (I'm the squirrel over by the bar with the piranha trying to fit two more thermal clips into it. Hi.) as one of the few, the proud, the somewhat jaded, who enjoys both SP and MP. I see no reason why we can't have both be very enjoyable components of the same game without poopooing one or the other simply because of bias. Becuae it's already been made clear that neither detracts from the other.

 

Yeah, yeah, one achievement and the high GAW ranking. You'll have to come at me with a better argument than those two small things.

[HSomCokeSniper]

No, no, clearly the ME3MP community is disgusting. You know, the way we attack each other for not liking a certain love interest and the way we waged an entire Internet battle because we didn't like the way MP ended or the way we like to bring politics and social justice into every discussion for the sake of watching the inevitable flame wars break out and we're just entirely awful, intolerant, disgusting people.

 

There was definitely nothing bad or off-putting anywhere on this forum until that damn MP element got added. It attracted all the worst kinds. There is no pot calling kettle black here whatsoever.

 

Oh no. It was much simpler than that. We got to attack each other over the use of Cerberus Harrier and Turian Ghost/Juggernaut/etc./etc., messing up the spawns, stealing kills (yes, I learned this is a thing in co-op mode), messing up combos, getting instagibbed by Banshee's, Claymore/Wraith...

 

Ahh, good times... 

[Fade9wayz]

Oh no. It was much simpler than that. We got to attack each other over the use of Cerberus Harrier and Turian Ghost/Juggernaut/etc./etc., messing up the spawns, stealing kills (yes, I learned this is a thing in co-op mode), messing up combos, getting instagibbed by Banshee's, Claymore/Wraith...

 

Ahh, good times... 

Can't wait for the future MEAMP forum 

 

I'd like to avoid the whole riot about how going to Andromeda is lore-breaking or whatever, and just go kill things,  in both SP and MP, in a universe I deeply love despite the whole ME3 endings debacle.

[NKnight7]

Singleplayer definitely, I like the multiplayer but I play Bioware games for the singleplayer. 

[KaiserShep]

Oh no. It was much simpler than that. We got to attack each other over the use of Cerberus Harrier and Turian Ghost/Juggernaut/etc./etc., messing up the spawns, stealing kills (yes, I learned this is a thing in co-op mode), messing up combos, getting instagibbed by Banshee's, Claymore/Wraith...

 

Ahh, good times... 

 

I always thought it was funny how some people got aggravated over kill steals, especially since in the end, your character is getting the payday like everyone else. 

[JoltDealer]

Here is a meme to entertain you while you think about how you will answer my question.

Han Solo: Daft Punk, do you prefer singleplayer or multiplayer?

Daft Punk: ... Uh...

 

Multiplayer and Single Player don't work like that.  No offense to you, but I wish people would stop spewing this outdated notion.  They have separate budgets and the inclusion or exclusion of one has zero effect on the other.  The only time one affects the other, is when you have bullshit like Galactic Readiness.  

[Gatt9]

Multiplayer and Single Player don't work like that.  No offense to you, but I wish people would stop spewing this outdated notion.  They have separate budgets and the inclusion or exclusion of one has zero effect on the other.  The only time one affects the other, is when you have bullshit like Galactic Readiness.  

 

That's obviously false.

 

1.  You don't buy two games.  The budget is (Expected number of copies sold) * (Revenue per copy sold) with profit factored in.  That single value is then divided into what they think will bring the most revenue,  if multiplayer wasn't there then that whole value would be spent maximizing single player's revenue potential.

 

2.  Multiplayer isn't there because it generated massive revenue.  Multiplayer is there to keep your copy of a game out of the used games bin at Gamestop long enough for a bunch of other people to buy new copies.

 

3.  Multiplayer obviously affects single player,  aside from the shortened game,  pretty much all of the content has to be balanced around multiplayer.  If it isn't,  then the game ends up in the used bin earlier and they sell fewer new copes.

 

The "Outdated notion" is the one that claims that multiplayer has a separate budget and doesn't affect single player.  It's always been creative word smithing to avoid admitting that the reason for multiplayer being included has nothing to do with making a better game and everything to do with keeping copies out of the used games bins longer.  I'll guarantee you that if Gamestop and other used games sellers belly up tomorrow we'll see multiplayer disappear.

[JoltDealer]

That's obviously false.

 

It isn't though.  It's a fact that can be backed up by anyone with even basic knowledge of the game development.  Two budgets does not mean two games.  It means the SP Team has X amount of resources to use for single player and the MP team has Y amount of resources for multiplayer.  Two budgets, two development teams, but only one game is made.  The reason why the budgets are separate is because there are gamers who purchase SP games and those who prefer to buy MP games.  A solely single-player experience would only appeal to certain gamers, and its budget reflects that.  When the decision to add multiplayer to a game is made, another budget is added based on the predicted increase in sales that multiplayer gamers will bring.

 

Basically, let's say that there are 10,000 people expected to buy a SP game.  Sales are predicted to bring in $600,000, so the budget is made accordingly.  Now the math is a bit more complex than that, but I would like to keep things simple.  If multiplayer is added, then that adds the potential of an additional 5,000 people buying the game, which adds $300,000 to the predicted income.  A second budget is added for multiplayer content as they can now afford to spend more on the game.  However, no multiplayer, no $300,000, and no additional budget.

 

The two teams are mostly separate.  There are some interlopers, but one or two people don't make a huge difference.  One team works on single player and another team works on multiplayer.  They work according to different project deadlines, with the obvious exception of having the same release date.  They may share some things and overlap occasionally, but they do not interfere with one another.  The only time one affected another was when last gen games had to worry about disc space, but even then, most games just had a multiplayer disc.

 

Now you can scream that I'm wrong until you're red in the face or type until carpal tunnel develops, but you cannot change reality.  I'm not a game developer, but I am a freelancer with a degree in media production.  I've studied the production process of television, live television, movies, websites, radio, viral videos, and video games.  Even if that isn't enough for you, I've worked plenty of jobs and I have friends who went on to work in the games industry.  What you posted is simply untrue.

[PresidentVorchaMasterBaits]

It just grinds my gears that there's such an "us vs them" mentality on these boards regarding SP and MP.

 

For one, MP is not the alpha and omega of forum trolldom here, so anyone that points at our trolls as a reason for being anti-MP while ignoring the troll-shaped splinters in their own SP eyes ticks me off.

 

And creating a whole "us vs them" dynamic in the first place ticks me off, too. Because a lot - I mean, a LOT - of the people playing MP were, guess what? SP fans and/or still ARE SP fans. It's not like BioWare added an MP element and it was entirely filled by CoD players who had never even heard of Mass Effect or Dragon Age before. No, almost everybody playing MP was a SP fan who decided to check it out. But it's like that factor never enters the rabid SP-only posters' minds. If you played and liked MP at all, then you are a dirty, awful pro-MP player and a blight. I won't even get into the fact that the ME3MP forum was literally the only safe haven for anyone who actually liked ME3 in any capacity during the mass riots over the ME3 SP endings. I stopped looking at the story and character boards because you couldn't exist there with any semblance of peace. I spent a solid two years secluded in the ME3MP forum so we could talk about the parts of the game we actually liked before I started peeking my head back into the SP forums.

 

I hate it. I love BOTH SP and MP, but find myself constantly having to defend the MP community because some people are so tunnel-visioned in the forum viewpoint that it's, quite frankly, not entirely healthy. The "us vs them" mentality and the "if you're not with us, you're against us" way of thinking is one of the worst things about our actual, real life world and a lot of the problems in it stem from that very root concept.

*removes vorcha mask*

 

This is the best post in this thread. This right here is exactly how I feel. I, like many others, played the SP games for many years before touching MP in ME3. In fact the ME3MP was the first online MP I've ever played. Have I ever played COD? No. Have I ever been interested in playing it? No. Why wasn't I interested in COD? Just didn't care and plus not a fan of PvP type of games. Most online games never appealed to me. Never cared for them and for the most part I still don't. When ME3 was coming out and announced a MP would be on it was I interested? You bet I was. Why is that? Because the idea of being able to play characters/races from the ME universe and using weopons, biotics, etc. was exciting to me. I remember how happy I was when I first unlocked the krogan soldier and being able to bash enemies off the map. It was glorious. Another thing about ME3MP was that it was co-op. That made a big difference right there so I wasn't as terrified of playing with strangers.

 

On the subject of the MP forums, it's one of the best forums I've ever been to. The past (almost 4 years now, yikes!) have been really fun and it's why I still hang around. I like the people I interact with and they have been some of the friendliest, funniest, and helpful people both in forums and in games. You know what place was really intimidating to me when I first joined these boards? The SP forums. I would lurk in those sections when the ME3 endings were such a big deal and I couldn't believe what I was reading. People were so upset that it seemed like their entire lives were ruined by it or that their faithful religious devotion to ME was suddenly betrayed. I mean, it's a frickin' video game. Damn. I didn't dare try to join in on conversations for the fact that people would most likely jump down my throat for speaking my mind or not agreeing with their thoughts, ideas, etc. Not everyone was like that obviously and the posters I do like I still take the time to read their posts in any and every section of these forums to this day     And now we have the MEA section. Really in my opinion it simply should not have been made yet. There wasn't enough to talk about. There was a teaser trailer and some pics of concept art. That's it. Immediately threads are being made about nothing. When you have a thread complaining about a Johnny Cash song in the trailer and someone saying how the game is going to be horrible because of it, you really need to stop and think "what the hell?" I also noticed a lot of these butthurt threads were being started and debated by people I've never seen before who I can only assume were diehard SP fans that were coming out of hiatus. I just didn't get it. However some of that stuff was ripe for trolling, especially by some of the MP members ( they really are pros at it ) I was going to stay out of all the bickering in this section but it was entertaining, enough so to bring back the whole vorcha roleplaying ( well, that and simple popular demand. GRRAAAAAGH!!!)

 

All in all I like both SP and MP and I'm excited for both.......especially MP 

 

Ugh, enough of that. Time to get back to work.

 

*puts on vorcha mask*

 

GRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGHH!!! WE KNOW YOUR TRICKS GAVORN! YOU TRY TO KEEP VORCHA OUT OF ANDOIPADOO???!! WE BURN YOU TILL DEAD!! LET THE BURNING BEGIN!!!

 

Spoiler

[JoltDealer]

*removes vorcha mask*

 

All in all I like both SP and MP and I'm excited for both.......especially MP 

 

Ugh, enough of that. Time to get back to work.

 

*puts on vorcha mask*

 

GRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGHH!!! WE KNOW YOUR TRICKS GAVORN! YOU TRY TO KEEP VORCHA OUT OF ANDOIPADOO???!! WE BURN YOU TILL DEAD!! LET THE BURNING BEGIN!!!

 

Spoiler

 

I've been a somewhat active member of the BSN for almost a decade now.  I was maybe 13 or 14 when I first joined the community because I was so hyped for the original Mass Effect.  I checked the website everyday when I got home from school.  I had been chatting with fellow fans of the series for years.  When I heard multiplayer was coming to Mass Effect 3, I was excited to finally play alongside our online community.

 

By and large, Bioware fans are some of the most respectful and insightful gamers that I have ever had the pleasure of playing with.  It's like meeting with instant friends that you never knew you had.  And this extends to my experience on DAI Multiplayer.  I cannot think of a single, bad experience in Bioware multiplayer.

 

Still, it's disappointing to see people who are so vehemently against it.  Even without the "MP takes from SP" argument (which isn't true), people still hate it to near-ignorant extents.  You can enjoy SP and MP content.  Enjoying one or the other says nothing about you, your social skills, or intelligence, but people act as if it does.  What it often boils down to is, "I prefer playing by myself," and that's a perfectly valid reason to not want to play multiplayer -- no one is going to force you to play it.  It's too bad that so many still see it as "us vs. them" like the other guy mentioned.

[SlottsMachine]

Haha. Did Gatt just come out of hibernation for one of his patented MP drains SP posts? That takes me back.

[UniformGreyColor]

*removes vorcha mask*

 

This is the best post in this thread. This right here is exactly how I feel. I, like many others, played the SP games for many years before touching MP in ME3. In fact the ME3MP was the first online MP I've ever played. Have I ever played COD? No. Have I ever been interested in playing it? No. Why wasn't I interested in COD? Just didn't care and plus not a fan of PvP type of games. Most online games never appealed to me. Never cared for them and for the most part I still don't. When ME3 was coming out and announced a MP would be on it was I interested? You bet I was. Why is that? Because the idea of being able to play characters/races from the ME universe and using weopons, biotics, etc. was exciting to me. I remember how happy I was when I first unlocked the krogan soldier and being able to bash enemies off the map. It was glorious. Another thing about ME3MP was that it was co-op. That made a big difference right there so I wasn't as terrified of playing with strangers.

 

On the subject of the MP forums, it's one of the best forums I've ever been to. The past (almost 4 years now, yikes!) have been really fun and it's why I still hang around. I like the people I interact with and they have been some of the friendliest, funniest, and helpful people both in forums and in games. You know what place was really intimidating to me when I first joined these boards? The SP forums. I would lurk in those sections when the ME3 endings were such a big deal and I couldn't believe what I was reading. People were so upset that it seemed like their entire lives were ruined by it or that their faithful religious devotion to ME was suddenly betrayed. I mean, it's a frickin' video game. Damn. I didn't dare try to join in on conversations for the fact that people would most likely jump down my throat for speaking my mind or not agreeing with their thoughts, ideas, etc. Not everyone was like that obviously and the posters I do like I still take the time to read their posts in any and every section of these forums to this day     And now we have the MEA section. Really in my opinion it simply should not have been made yet. There wasn't enough to talk about. There was a teaser trailer and some pics of concept art. That's it. Immediately threads are being made about nothing. When you have a thread complaining about a Johnny Cash song in the trailer and someone saying how the game is going to be horrible because of it, you really need to stop and think "what the hell?" I also noticed a lot of these butthurt threads were being started and debated by people I've never seen before who I can only assume were diehard SP fans that were coming out of hiatus. I just didn't get it. However some of that stuff was ripe for trolling, especially by some of the MP members ( they really are pros at it ) I was going to stay out of all the bickering in this section but it was entertaining, enough so to bring back the whole vorcha roleplaying ( well, that and simple popular demand. GRRAAAAAGH!!!)

 

All in all I like both SP and MP and I'm excited for both.......especially MP 

 

Ugh, enough of that. Time to get back to work.

 

*puts on vorcha mask*

 

GRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGHH!!! WE KNOW YOUR TRICKS GAVORN! YOU TRY TO KEEP VORCHA OUT OF ANDOIPADOO???!! WE BURN YOU TILL DEAD!! LET THE BURNING BEGIN!!!

 

Spoiler

 

That was a beautiful post. I want you to know that this post, along with DragonRacer's has actually changed my stance on MP and I am actually willing to try it out now. 

[DragonRacer]

That was a beautiful post. I want you to know that this post, along with DragonRacer's has actually changed my stance on MP and I am actually willing to try it out now. 

 

If you're on PS4, I would be happy and honored to play MEAMP with you, friend.

 

(And, heck, if you have ME3MP on PS3, PC, or XBox 360, I'd be happy to blow the dust off and play some matches with you. Just started shaking the rust off on my PS3 account because I missed it so much after a one-year break for DAI.)

[rossler]

Single-player.

[slimgrin]

Both.

As for the assets or negative impact debate. There is no way too really prove it one way or the other. If MP was never on the table would the SP game have a bigger budget, smaller, same? Whether it's a different bid or not is irrelevant as MP is always something to consider. So EA might always go into bid 1 thinking well they are also going to ask for another X for MP so at most this game gets X. But it could be a opposite mentality as they may see MP based micro transactions as there best option. So they might think we need to give them a big SP budget to draw people into the MP micro transaction market. And therefore get a bigger SP budget.

Does map design, class balance etc get effected. In some games sure. But did MP design negatively impact SP design in ME? We can't really say, they even kept certain changed seperate. Re-used mp map? Well maybe they never would have even added that side content without that cost savings. And besides the best maps were the MP ones. The SP only maps were awful.

While I can't prove it I think MP had a positive effect on ME3s SP game. And besides the MP was awesome. Far better than the SP game.

 

So far, they haven't excelled at both. Baby steps here. Let's focus on one thing and do it well. 

[UniformGreyColor]

If you're on PS4, I would be happy and honored to play MEAMP with you, friend.

 

(And, heck, if you have ME3MP on PS3, PC, or XBox 360, I'd be happy to blow the dust off and play some matches with you. Just started shaking the rust off on my PS3 account because I missed it so much after a one-year break for DAI.)

 

Oofta. I would love to take you up on your offer, but I am a PC player (and no, I don't have the PC master race fever).

 

[Edit] NVM, I see you included PC for ME3MP! I'd love to play with you!

[rossler]

3.  Multiplayer obviously affects single player,  aside from the shortened game,  pretty much all of the content has to be balanced around multiplayer.  If it isn't,  then the game ends up in the used bin earlier and they sell fewer new copes.

 

Nope. In the ME3 Coalesced file, there are two separate sections for multiplayer and single player (sfxgamecontent & sfxgamempcontent). Each one has their own separate enemy types and damage multipliers. Bioware isn't like Blizzard where they balance PVE around PVP. Where they have one thing for everything. It's completely separate with this game.

 

They also had two separate teams. The one in Montreal developed the multiplayer, while the one in Edmonton did all single player. The Montreal one did do some single player stuff, but not a whole lot.

 

The Andromeda team is a lot bigger though.

[ZipZap2000]

That was a beautiful post. I want you to know that this post, along with DragonRacer's has actually changed my stance on MP and I am actually willing to try it out now.

Die hard SP here saying you've been missing out. Its almost as much fun as the SP without the hang ups. I was nervous at first but other than the odd DB its a great environment.

[Jewellzify]

Both.

 Although the Main Story is usually single-player and will consume most time in the game for most, the multi-player should have the same amount of time and effort put into it as well. If both are an option within the game, then both deserve an equal amount of attention from the dev's. If it's going to be in the game, it should be done well no matter if it is single player or multi-player.

[DragonRacer]

Oofta. I would love to take you up on your offer, but I am a PC player (and no, I don't have the PC master race fever).

 

[Edit] NVM, I see you included PC for ME3MP! I'd love to play with you!

 

Nice. Been a while since I fired it up on PC, so I'm down for shaking the rust off. I do things the old-fashioned way, so my manifest is far from awesome, but I have my beloved Turian Sentinel, a Mattock, and a Crusader, so I can hold my own in Gold or below as needed.

 

Feel free to shoot me a FR on Origin: DragonRacer13. And let me know when you're usually gaming/timezone and I can probably catch you for some matches some weekend. I'm Eastern Time U.S.

[Draining Dragon]

I think Mass Effect is a single player franchise and as such Bioware should focus on the single player campaign. That said, it would be interesting to see what kind of MP Bioware can create when they really try. ME3MP is fun, even thought it feels a bit tacked-on.

By the way, hit me up on Origin if you're interested in playing ME3 MP on PC. My origin ID is drainingdragon.

[Really Sad Panther]

I want them to focus on making a great game, that is the sum of all of it's parts SP and MP.