191 réponses à ce sujet

[thats1evildude]

Except that is in what in the game. You can only use your own blood or that of an ally to fuel the magic.

Never, not once, have I seen a blood mage use the blood spilled from an enemy to fuel their magic.

[The Baconer]

Except that is in what in the game. You can only use your own blood or that of an ally to fuel the magic.

 

Never, not once, have I seen a blood mage use the blood spilled from an enemy to fuel their magic. 

 

Actually, there was a blood magic ability in Dragon Age 2 (Grave Robber) tooled for doing exactly that. The Baroness using The First to breach the Veil practically worked this way. In addition, this is the Reaver's bread-and-butter. 

 

Ironically, the ability to pillage the essence of the fallen, without blood magic, has been a staple throughout the entire series. 

[thats1evildude]

The Reaver is not really blood magic, and the First was an ally of the Baroness.

I'll concede that there was an ability in DA2 that let you restore HP, but you were still casting from your own HP.

[Illegitimus]

The Dark ritual is an advanced spell of blood magic, which use the taint and the blood of the fetus to force the archdemon soul to jump into it even at medium great distance from where the archdemon was killed.
Sorry to have disrupted your headcanon about it but that what the dark ritual is and i consider it to be dark and evil as most spell based on blood magic..
Two souls who share the same body is not "normal" to me.

 

Morrigan doesn't even know basic blood magic much less advanced blood magic.  Unless we're counting Healing as blood magic...and really why wouldn't we?  After all, it involves blood.  

[The Baconer]

The Reaver is not really blood magic, 

 

It is supernatural, and powered with the same properties (death, bloodshed, violence). It just lacks the versatility. 

 

 

and the First was an ally of the Baroness.

 

Only in the most general and nonspecific manner, so that one may liken it to a videogame mechanic. Even then, he wasn't really an "ally" in the moment the spell was cast. In fact, he could have been an enemy of the Baroness beforehand, as the Warden may choose to help her instead. Same result. 

 

 

I'll concede that there was an ability in DA2 that let you restore HP, but you were still casting from your own HP.

 

The PC has never cast blood magic by using anyone else's essence, even when that is a popular way to use blood magic. 

[nightscrawl]

^ Not true, unless you're not counting stealing an ally's health to regain your own health. I don't see why you wouldn't, though. If you are losing your own health from doing blood magic, and can't drink a potion or receive normal healing, and you then steal an ally's health in order to continue to do more blood magic, IMO it amounts to the same thing.

 

And then of course there is the Isolde ritual. True the PC doesn't do that themselves, Jowan does, but it happens under your watch, so to speak.

 

DAO had Blood Sacrifice.

 

The blood mage sucks the life-force from an ally, healing the caster but potentially killing the ally. This healing is not affected by the healing penalty of Blood Magic.

* Transfer up to -50 health of party member, into and up to +100 health to the caster.

* Range: 25m

* Conjuration time: 1s

 

Also in DA2: Sacrifice.

 

The blood mage sucks the life force from an ally to regain health.

* Companion loses 20% of health
* 100% health regeneration of companion's lost health to caster

 

And the upgrade, Grim Sacrifice, gives you a bonus if your ally falls.

 

The mage now gains more health than the party member loses. If the spell causes the ally to fall the blood mage gains even more health.

* Upgrades Sacrifice

* +50% health regeneration of companion health lost

* 200% if companion falls

[German Soldier]

Morrigan doesn't even know basic blood magic much less advanced blood magic.  Unless we're counting Healing as blood magic...and really why wouldn't we?  After all, it involves blood.  

It doesn't matter if she is not qualified to be considered a blood mage since she is mostly specialized in shapeshifting,that spell is to consider part of the blood magic school.

[nightscrawl]

What I find frustrating about the way blood magic has been portrayed in the games is that very little has been shown of the mind control aspects of it. We got to see a bit with Idunna in DA2, but I can't recall any other instances. I always found that it was heavily implied that Morrigan used blood magic to allow Alistair to enjoy himself if they do the DR, but it's not explicitly stated. Cullen rants about it at the end of the Circle tower mission in DAO, but that's all.

I'm not referring to the type of mind manipulation found in entropy spells, putting enemies to sleep, causing fear, and so on, but rather of the type that is suggested by the the war table operation The Serpent of Nevarra of that nation's king being influenced by a Venatori mage.

 

Morrigan doesn't even know basic blood magic much less advanced blood magic.  Unless we're counting Healing as blood magic...and really why wouldn't we?  After all, it involves blood.

 
Are you basing this simply on the fact that she doesn't know blood magic when you recruit her? So what? She can learn it later on if you spec her into it, and so can Wynne, for that matter. Just because something has certain gamey limitations doesn't mean that it is 100% bound to the story.

[Gervaise]

They implemented mind control in a limited way in DA2 by having Blood Slave, where you take over the mind of an enemy and get them to fight for you, after which they die.   Still they did tend to play down the really bad mind control effects in game, although we are told about them being used elsewhere.   After all that is what Dorian's father was planning on doing to him, control his mind through blood magic in a permanent way that Dorian says could potentially have rendered him a drooling vegetable, probably because his will would have resisted the effects until his mind was broken.     I wonder if we will see more of this sort of thing if we go to Tevinter, since blood magic is meant to be so rife there.  

 

I think the best argument against its use was put in Last Flight.    Even if you are only using your own blood, or that of a willing victim, you really don't know the extent of how your magic is going to affect the world around you because blood magic works to different rules to regular magic that probably even the Tevinter Magisters don't fully understand.   At the end Calien, the mage who taught Isseya blood magic, has stopped using it himself for that very reason because he will "never strike a blind bargain again."  He won't use blood magic to try and put right what she did to the Griffons because it might make things worse in a new and unexpected way.    It is the unpredictability of blood magic that is the most potent argument against it.

[ShadowLordXII]

They implemented mind control in a limited way in DA2 by having Blood Slave, where you take over the mind of an enemy and get them to fight for you, after which they die.   Still they did tend to play down the really bad mind control effects in game, although we are told about them being used elsewhere.   After all that is what Dorian's father was planning on doing to him, control his mind through blood magic in a permanent way that Dorian says could potentially have rendered him a drooling vegetable, probably because his will would have resisted the effects until his mind was broken.     I wonder if we will see more of this sort of thing if we go to Tevinter, since blood magic is meant to be so rife there.  

 

I think the best argument against its use was put in Last Flight.    Even if you are only using your own blood, or that of a willing victim, you really don't know the extent of how your magic is going to affect the world around you because blood magic works to different rules to regular magic that probably even the Tevinter Magisters don't fully understand.   At the end Calien, the mage who taught Isseya blood magic, has stopped using it himself for that very reason because he will "never strike a blind bargain again."  He won't use blood magic to try and put right what she did to the Griffons because it might make things worse in a new and unexpected way.    It is the unpredictability of blood magic that is the most potent argument against it.

 

In addition, Origins did feature the spell Blood Control where you could take control of an enemy to fight for you if they had a weak will.

 

"The blood mage forcibly controls the target’s blood, making the target an ally of the caster unless it passes a mental resistance check. If the target resists, it still takes great damage from the manipulation of its blood. Creatures without blood are immune."

[The Baconer]

^ Not true, unless you're not counting stealing an ally's health to regain your own health. 

 

Yes, I am choosing not to count that. That is a system of transferring HP from a companion to the PC, so that the PC has more of their own health to cast blood magic spells. What I am talking about is casting a spell entirely from someone else's life force, which isn't the same as the existing process. 

 

Of course, it would be difficult to apply that as a game mechanic without using some kind of "charge" system. 

[nightscrawl]

They implemented mind control in a limited way in DA2 by having Blood Slave, where you take over the mind of an enemy and get them to fight for you, after which they die.

In addition, Origins did feature the spell Blood Control where you could take control of an enemy to fight for you if they had a weak will.

I didn't want to use the examples of the Blood Slave type of spells because I wasn't referring to combat. I'm talking about influencing the mind of a "king or a Grand Cleric" like Cullen raves about, and controlling things from behind the scenes. I'm talking about controlling someone's thoughts. To me, that is the real sinister part of blood magic.

[BansheeOwnage]

 

I didn't want to use the examples of the Blood Slave type of spells because I wasn't referring to combat. I'm talking about influencing the mind of a "king or a Grand Cleric" like Cullen raves about, and controlling things from behind the scenes. I'm talking about controlling someone's thoughts. To me, that is the real sinister part of blood magic.

 

I agree that it should be portrayed more, since it would actually make it seem scary/threatening, but wasn't there a part of DA2 where Hawke almost slits their own throat because of blood magic?

[KaiserShep]

I agree that it should be portrayed more, since it would actually make it seem scary/threatening, but wasn't there a part of DA2 where Hawke almost slits their own throat because of blood magic?

 

There was, only Hawke is always resistant enough to break free and kill Idunna. 

[BansheeOwnage]

There was, only Hawke is always resistant enough to break free and kill Idunna. 

Well, it certainly would have been interesting if you could get a game-over by choosing bad options in a scenario like this. Either way though, they should and could have more examples of actual blood magic mind control on NPCs to avoid the problem of always needing to win.

[nightscrawl]

I agree that it should be portrayed more, since it would actually make it seem scary/threatening, but wasn't there a part of DA2 where Hawke almost slits their own throat because of blood magic?

There was, only Hawke is always resistant enough to break free and kill Idunna.

 
Yeah, I mentioned Idunna in my previous post. But that can almost be related to combat in a way, since you're making someone do something that would harm themselves. Again, I'm talking about manipulating people into certain decisions, being a puppet master behind a king, and so on.

At any rate, I think this is the main failing of the portrayal of blood magic in the game.

[Bardox9]

The reason I first took Blood magic as a specialization in DA:O is  the same reason I continue to build my mage protagonists (with the exception of the Inquisitor of course as it is not even an option... grrrr) up as a blood mage. The reason being, where magic is concerned, what you don't know can kill you. Whether or not my character actually used blood magic was not the point. You have to know what it is that you face or you will be incapable of preparing yourself for such a confrontation.

 

A warrior or rouge can survive based solely on the master works of a good smith, but mages are only as good as what they know. If you remain intentionally ignorant of an entire school of magic, don't complain when you find yourself holding a blade at your own throat.