25 replies to this topic

[Deadly dwarf]

I'm closing in on finishing my first run-through and was generally impressed with the story.  However, "Best Served Cold" leaves me both "cold" and confused.  My mage Hawke has tried to walk a moderate pro-mage road...helping the seemingly more innocuous apostates, fighting the more sadistic templars, but also going after the more hopeless blood mages.  I started Act 3 siding with Orsino over Meredith.  Orsino then calls Hawke in to investigate what some renegade mages are doing.  What you then find is an anti-Meredith conspiracy of mages and templars led by Thrask.  This seems to be the kind of group you should actually allign with.  However, the moment they see you, they attack and get slaughtered.  And for good measure, these idiots have kidnapped Carver!  What the hell?  And then to top it all off, Grace, the apostate my Hawke allowed to escape is the most militantly anti-Hawke, kills Thrask, and starts a final fight that gets most of the rest killed, with the survivors being led off to imprisonment under Meredith. 

 

None of this makes sense.  I would've imagined Thrask would've tried to recruit Hawke to be part of this conspiracy rather than kidnap Hawke's sibling and earning Hawke's enmity.  Perhaps all these conspirators had been sniffing too much lyrium.  Oh well...  No matter what, DA 2 seems to be geared toward making you choose between mages or Templars with no middle road allowed.

 

 

[Catilina]

This is the essence of all. There is not a good way, and it doesn't matter, what you choose.

[Deadly dwarf]

The problem for me is that Thrask's actions don't make sense if you have a pro-mage Hawke.  Kidnapping Carver only makes sense if Hawke is pro-Meredith.  In an RPG, you expect the PC to be faced with tough decisions.  You don't expect to be thrown into a story-line that doesn't make sense.  In my case, Hawke had dealt with Thrask in the past and Thrask knew Hawke was sympathetic to the cause of mages.  So why would his group try to provoke the Champion rather than recruit him/her?

[Catilina]

Its true.

There would be good enough if he would just ask me.

[vertigomez]

It's okay, everybody hates this quest.

[GoldenGail3]

It's okay, everybody hates this quest.

LOL, LOL, ROLF!

[BronzTrooper]

Nothing about Best Served Cold makes sense if you play a pro-mage Hawke, OP.  I just chalk it down to how EA had BW rush DA2 out the door, leaving a lot of plot holes and things that don't make sense.

 

I just headcanon that my pro-mage Hawkes slap Thrask upside the head for being a moron.

[vertigomez]

I guess you could just blame the fact that everybody's suspicious of everyone else. They probably think Hawke's a double agent or something.

[Deadly dwarf]

It's okay, everybody hates this quest.

ROFLMAO!  You know, I was thinking of giving this thread the exact same title but decided to avoid profanity even in shorthand form!  I'm glad to see I'm not alone in thinking this quest was screwed up.  I wonder Gaider and company ever addressed this in any of his posts.

 

I also agree with the ancient thread that Act 3 is the weakest part of the game overall, though the other quests in Act 3 aren't as nutty as "Best served cold..." 

[straykat]

I agree it makes more sense with Meredith. Fortunately, that's my preference (but I don't necessarily side with Meredith in the end). But I'm not gonna excuse it.

[springacres]

It's okay, everybody hates this quest.

This, so much.  It only makes sense if you're pro-Meredith, and I've never yet been able to manage a pro-Meredith playthrough.

[straykat]

This, so much.  It only makes sense if you're pro-Meredith, and I've never yet been able to manage a pro-Meredith playthrough.

 

I'm not totally pro-Meredith. It just sort of makes sense to me at that point. After Leandra, or maybe trying to be a Champion for everyone in Kirkwall, or just getting tired of Anders. lol

 

There's plenty in the rest of Act 3 to change your mind.

 

That said, I don't think people should be compelled to play one way.

[springacres]

I'm not totally pro-Meredith. It just sort of makes sense to me at that point. After Leandra, or maybe trying to be a Champion for everyone in Kirkwall, or just getting tired of Anders. lol

 

There's plenty in the rest of Act 3 to change your mind.

 

That said, I don't think people should be compelled to play one way.

It makes sense from a certain standpoint, true.  I guess I should clarify that I've only ever gotten that far with mage playthroughs, so it didn't make sense by that point for my Hawkes to support Meredith anyway.  But the finale of that quest is predicated on Hawke being pro-Meredith at that point.

Edited by springacres, 16 January 2016 - 07:32 AM.

[straykat]

Another thing you can do to aid roleplaying is be a jerk to Thrask and blackmail him in Act 1. lol

 

I noticed that's what DAKeep's default MAGE Hawke does.

 

So that could explain why a Pro Mage Hawke might've never been on good terms with Thrask.

[ArcadiaGrey]

Another thing you can do to aid roleplaying is be a jerk to Thrask and blackmail him in Act 1. lol

 

I noticed that's what DAKeep's default MAGE Hawke does.

 

So that could explain why a Pro Mage Hawke might've never been on good terms with Thrask.

 

So perhaps the quest makes more sense with an extreme Templar or Mage Hawke, but doesn't make sense if you're nice to Thrask and reasonable?

 

This isn't something I've experienced yet, my runs have been pro-Templar so far so Grace's animosity always makes sense.  Plus I've been under the impression that Grace was a runaway train Thrask couldn't control, and he was just desperately trying to stop her and not really happy to go along with the plan.  He got swept up in events and the mob mentality.  That's how I read it but as I said, pro-Templar so far.... after reading what you guys said I assume when I'm pro-Mage I'll start to see the problems. 

[straykat]

So perhaps the quest makes more sense with an extreme Templar or Mage Hawke, but doesn't make sense if you're nice to Thrask and reasonable?

 

This isn't something I've experienced yet, my runs have been pro-Templar so far so Grace's animosity always makes sense.  Plus I've been under the impression that Grace was a runaway train Thrask couldn't control, and he was just desperately trying to stop her and not really happy to go along with the plan.  He got swept up in events and the mob mentality.  That's how I read it but as I said, pro-Templar so far.... after reading what you guys said I assume when I'm pro-Mage I'll start to see the problems. 

 

Not extremely Templar sided. I think you can just voice some support for Meredith, and that would make you off limits to Thrask. Then all he's doing is trying to reason with you in Best Served Cold. He even points out that you once sided with mages and he doesn't understand why you're siding with her now.

[ArcadiaGrey]

Not extremely Templar sided. I think you can just voice some support for Meredith, and that would make you off limits to Thrask. Then all he's doing is trying to reason with you in Best Served Cold. He even points out that you once sided with mages and he doesn't understand why you're siding with her now.

 

Well that's good, at least your previous choices are recognised.

[Catilina]

Maybe this was not Trask decision presumably, rather Grace's personal revenge.

Summa summarum: everybody complete idiot, included Hawke, who believes that he may stop the madness.

[springacres]

Another thing you can do to aid roleplaying is be a jerk to Thrask and blackmail him in Act 1. lol

 

I noticed that's what DAKeep's default MAGE Hawke does.

 

So that could explain why a Pro Mage Hawke might've never been on good terms with Thrask.

I did this on my canon run, although it required some mental gymnastics to explain how and why my mage Hawke was blackmailing Thrask over his protection of his mage daughter.  I finally had to headcanon that she was doing it as much to give herself a way to punish him if someone ratted her out as an apostate.

[straykat]

I did this on my canon run, although it required some mental gymnastics to explain how and why my mage Hawke was blackmailing Thrask over his protection of his mage daughter.  I finally had to headcanon that she was doing it as much to give herself a way to punish him if someone ratted her out as an apostate.

 

I could do it because Act 1 can just be about making money. It's kind of petty, but that's what makes Act 1 fun.

 

And it's what frustrates Cassandra too. She invented some elaborate rebel movement in her head, when in Varric's story, Hawke was just "making coin".

[Krypplingz]

Basically, the plot forces you to hunt mages for Meredith. Grace (who is feeling vengeful against Hawke) uses this to put her plan of killing Hawke in motion, aka luring Hawke to a secluded place with a bunch of riled up mooks by her side. Thrask is to useless to stop her. 

 

Longer version under spoiler.

Spoiler

At the start of Act 3 you are forced to do the quest "On the loose" for Meredith, which results in the death of at least two mages. There are templars who see you enter and leave her office and presumably overheard that you did indeed go mage hunting for her. Some might belong to the Renegades, so they report it to Thrask and co. Grace uses this to incite the group against you since she has had a vendetta for Hawke since Act 1 (she blames you for getting caught, even if you try to help her escape).
So at Grace urging, the group kidnaps your sibling/friend with the intent to force you to back off or side with the group. The plan is set in motion before you talk to Orisino/Meredith for the Best Served cold quest and completed while you murder the attendants of two of their secret meetings.

When you enter the Wounded Coast Thrask tries to talk you down/reaffirm that you are their ally. It also seems like he's been trying to call the plan off since he says he had hoped you wouldn't come, which probably means he wanted to let the hostage go.
No matter how you respond he tries to calm things down and make Grace release the hostage/let them go. But she's to far gone in her vengeance and activates bloody combat.

[straykat]

Basically, the plot forces you to hunt mages for Meredith. Grace (who is feeling vengeful against Hawke) uses this to put her plan of killing Hawke in motion, aka luring Hawke to a secluded place with a bunch of riled up mooks by her side. Thrask is to useless to stop her. 

 

Longer version under spoiler.

Spoiler

At the start of Act 3 you are forced to do the quest "On the loose" for Meredith, which results in the death of at least two mages. There are templars who see you enter and leave her office and presumably overheard that you did indeed go mage hunting for her. Some might belong to the Renegades, so they report it to Thrask and co. Grace uses this to incite the group against you since she has had a vendetta for Hawke since Act 1 (she blames you for getting caught, even if you try to help her escape).
So at Grace urging, the group kidnaps your sibling/friend with the intent to force you to back off or side with the group. The plan is set in motion before you talk to Orisino/Meredith for the Best Served cold quest and completed while you murder the attendants of two of their secret meetings.

When you enter the Wounded Coast Thrask tries to talk you down/reaffirm that you are their ally. It also seems like he's been trying to call the plan off since he says he had hoped you wouldn't come, which probably means he wanted to let the hostage go.
No matter how you respond he tries to calm things down and make Grace release the hostage/let them go. But she's to far gone in her vengeance and activates bloody combat.

 

On a sidenote, it's kind of funny how Hawke has few opportunities of being a killer of spouses. Wesley, Decimus, then possibly Anders if you romanced him yourself

[springacres]

I think Decimus was Grace's lover, not her husband (yet), but you make an interesting point about Hawke's opportunities to kill other people's significant others.

[Fylimar]

Krypplings explanation makes sense, still, I'm not that fond of the quest. Basically, it gets one of the few decent Kirkwall templars killed (sadly, Ser Thrask is not that bright, or he would have probably tried to find out, why Hawke was helping Meredith)

The one good thing is, that you get to flirt with Orsino a bit as a snarky Hawke - that was fun

[springacres]

Krypplings explanation makes sense, still, I'm not that fond of the quest. Basically, it gets one of the few decent Kirkwall templars killed (sadly, Ser Thrask is not that bright, or he would have probably tried to find out, why Hawke was helping Meredith)

The one good thing is, that you get to flirt with Orsino a bit as a snarky Hawke - that was fun

That, plus (for my Hawkes) it gives them a chance to reaffirm that family is still important to them.

 

I also like the option to flirt with Orsino, even though at the same time it feels sort of cruel given what Emile says about life in the Kirkwall Circle.