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[EBDerevko]

Hi! I just have some questions regarding DA:I's spirit in the Fade and Leliana.

 

This topic contains DA:I, Trespasser, and DA:O spoilers. Please, don't hesitate to let me know if all this has already been discussed here in the forums and I'm being inappropriate.

 

Who (or of what) was the spirit? How does it know Leliana? What is it sorry for? (I haven't read the any of the DA books yet, so it's possible I'm missing a lot.)

 

- The spirit under the appearance of Justinia doesn't identify as Justinia, but also provides no further precisions on its identity. Since spirits/demons usually represent emotions (wisdom/pride, etc,) what was that spirit supposed to be?

 

- How did it know Leliana? When it said "tell Leliana I'm sorry" in the end, considering it's not even Justinia herself, then who is it? And what is it sorry for?

Even if that had been Justinia, it wouldn't make sense for her to apologize for being used and killed as an unwilling "sacrifice".

 

- So if the spirit isn't Justinia, and if Justinia did nothing wrong, then what is that spirit sorry for? What did it do? What does Leliana know? Or what do we not know about Leliana?

 

- If Leliana was killed back in DA:O, and then isn't chosen as Divine in DA:I, the Trespasser epilogue shows her vanishing, as if she had been a spirit or an undead all along.

Curiously, if Leliana died in DA:O, it was in the exact same place in which the Fade broke loose at the beginning of DA:I.

 

Spoiler

 

 

Leliana continued to act as the Inquisition's spymaster in its final months as an independent organization. (Inquisition disbanded.)

 

During this time, she shared many of her responsibilities with her most trusted agents, including Charter, Rector, and Harding.

 

Many believed that Leliana feared what lay on the horizon and was grooming successors in anticipation of the challenges ahead. (We'll likely be hearing from the three aforementioned agents again.)

 

Eventually, Leliana became distant and contemplative, often secluding herself in the rookery with none but her ravens for company. (The rookery of Skyhold, which, by the ending of Trespasser, she already knows that belonged to Solas. Plus, she also has her room full with raven signs downstairs in the ancient library. What wasn't she telling?)

 

One morning, the residents of Skyhold awoke to a great beating of wings and a vast cloud of ravens blotting out the sky above the fortress. (Wait, I remember another character that usually turns into raven/s... also, why does Skyhold have any residents even if the Inquisition was disbanded and the owner represents a believable threat?)

 

Those who investigated found both the rookery and Leliana's chambers vacant, with only a single message left as explanation:

 

"The Lyrium sang thought into being. Now time is stale, and the melody is called elsewhere. Until I am needed, I am free." (Sounds a lot like Cole's ending, huh? Besides, "sang thought into being" would be nothing more than fully-conscious Lyrium, blood of Titans, personifying itself through Leliana's remains in the Temple from DA:O, which is a lot like what the unknown spirit did with Justinia's appearance in the Fade.)

 

So, even if Leliana hadn't died in DA:O... what is she? What is her connection to the Fade, the Temple, and that spirit we met? Why the fixation on ravens? Could ravens be spirits that watch for her and communicate with her?

 

If this was any other developing company, I'd blame that sequence of the epilogue on lazy writing, but I think we all know BioWare and its team of writers' work much better than to make such assumption.

 

- Leliana's spirit/demon parallel: As a divine, she can be either softened (purges the Chantry without bloodshed) or hardened (bloodshed, with the Chantry's purge as an excuse). Again, what is she?

 

 

Like I said, I haven't read the DA books yet, so I could be missing a lot.

 

What do you think???

 

[straykat]

You're assuming too much about the Justinia spirit. She could be Justinia or know her deeply enough to "be" her. In which case, she's apologizing to Leliana as Justinia. I would assume because she helped lead Leliana down a ruthless path.

 

We'll never get a clear answer on all of it though.

 

And if Leliana hadn't died, then it's just two women who were friends. No real mystery there.

[Tidus]

You're putting way to much into nothing.

 

Leliana doesn't die in DA:O unless the player choses to kill her for unknown reasons-I never found a reason to kill her in my 14 games. Of course all of my companions is maxed as friends and my male warden romances Leliana and after the victory hoopla at the castle he leaves with Leliana to travel and she is my female warden's BFF and they travel together. 

 

She is Sister Nightingale/Leliana in DA:2 and back to Leliana in DA:I. She is in the DA book "Asunder" as a bard for the chantry.

 

Justinia  help Leliana escape from prison in Leliana's story and after Leliana deals with a baddie she joins the Chantry and they become close friends. Do not be surprise Leliana is hard.. She is a highly trained bard and knows how to deal with problems and in that light I would never soften her. Recall she fought along side of the HOF to slay the AD or helps defend the gate area if that path is chosen for her.

 

Do recall the fade is where people go when they dream.

[EBDerevko]

OK, I apologize for opening this topic. I'm sorry.

[Tidus]

EB,No need for apologies.. You had questions and concerns and the best way to find answers is to ask questions.

[Reznore57]

Spirits can also be like ghosts in Thedas , they take the memories of the dead and they frolick around looking like them.

What I sometimes wonder about is ...do souls turn into spirits?We don't know what happens to the souls , humans elves qunari go through the fade upon death and then poof!No one knows what happens.

 

The "tell Leliana I'm sorry" is Justinia being sorry because she used Leliana as an assassin for years .She's sorry for what she turned Leliana into : a ruthless murderer.

 

If Leliana didn't die in DAO , she's just Leliana , the strange thing about her is you find out she has some natural resistance to the Blight in In Hushed Whispers.

There's still the story of her vision from DAO , but dream or true vision?I'm not sure we'll ever find out.

 

If she dies , well I don't really know.

It's vague and a bit weird honestly , she got killed at the temple and some song brought her back to life.

Cole also says the "old song" pulls him so he doesn't need to sleep or eat , anyway I assume there's some old magic at work here and powerful enough to defy the current natural laws of the universe.

[Tidus]

Rez,I know very few kills Leliana at the temple but, that never makes sense and all it does is confuse people.

 

Judging by what I've read and watching several  let's play on you tube I would hazard a guess and say 99% of us doesn't kill her.

 

Why even mention a player's choice of killing Leliana like its a part of the normal game story?  After 14 games I still found no reason to kill her at the temple or anywhere else..

[Korva]

The "tell Leliana I'm sorry" is Justinia being sorry because she used Leliana as an assassin for years .She's sorry for what she turned Leliana into : a ruthless murderer.

 

Not only that, she pulled Leliana right back into the sort of life that she had once helped her escape/heal from. Also, she must have known how emotionally dependant Leliana was on her, how hard or even impossible it would have been to say no. Those are two very good reasons to feel guilty ... even moreso in a worldstate where Leliana was the lover of a Warden who sacrificed themselves, because that loss is bound to have made her latch on to Justinia all the harder.

 

The "Justinia" in the Fade was probably a powerful spirit -- of Faith? -- who, as spirits do, had become interested in and attached to the real Justinia, and wanted to do what it could to protect her legacy. I think it took her form because that would likely both be seen as comforting and require less explanation.

[duckley]

Great questions OP!

[nightscrawl]

Rez,I know very few kills Leliana at the temple but, that never makes sense and all it does is confuse people.

 

Judging by what I've read and watching several  let's play on you tube I would hazard a guess and say 99% of us doesn't kill her.

 

Why even mention a player's choice of killing Leliana like its a part of the normal game story?  After 14 games I still found no reason to kill her at the temple or anywhere else..

 

Because it's an option and Bioware accounted for it by writing specific context for it? Just because you feel that way doesn't mean that applies to everyone. I haven't killed her either, but to my knowledge that crisis point comes when you defile the sacred ashes during that quest. I think there might be a way to avoid combat, but so what if there is? Some players don't like having their PC's authority questioned by anyone and that is a good enough reason for them to kill Leliana, Wynne, or anyone else that gets in their way. Or maybe they just don't like her and relished the chance to kill her. Some other player's reason is not important. But Bioware did account for that fact in DAI and it IS a part of the "normal game story" for all those players that imported that choice.

[Tidus]

Nightscrawl,Maybe they enjoy killing everybody they can even though there's no reason too?

 

I still don't think that should be mention since it confuses other players especially the new ones.

 

I was mislead by reading Zevran will turn on you and because of that I killed him in my first two or three games before I learn the truth and that is if you give him a bar of gold, Antivan wine and Antivan leather boots he will become a very loyal friend and will stick with you until the end and there's a option where he will travel with you and Leliana after the victory hoopla at the castle..

[EBDerevko]

What I sometimes wonder about is ...do souls turn into spirits?We don't know what happens to the souls , humans elves qunari go through the fade upon death and then poof!No one knows what happens.

 

This is a great point, because souls and spirits/demons can be easily mistaken. An example of "raw" souls could be the ancient Elven guardians we cross paths with in Trespasser.

 

The souls may not necessarily go to the Fade upon physical death, and Dwarves don't dream... so what happens to them? Where do they go?

 

Leliana's resistance to the Blight is another strong point, which I'm sure will be further developed in the future.

 

 

 

Why even mention a player's choice of killing Leliana like its a part of the normal game story?  After 14 games I still found no reason to kill her at the temple or anywhere else..

 

I still don't think that should be mention since it confuses other players especially the new ones.

 

Because some things may or may not happen according to our choices. Example: Morrigan shows up in DA:I even if we stabbed her back in DA:O.

 

It's interesting to think about those things and those characters that will happen or show up no matter what. Why?

 

That's the point, they could have a much greater purpose ahead.

 

 

 

The "Justinia" in the Fade was probably a powerful spirit -- of Faith? 

 

Curiously, a spirit of Faith was the one that broke Cassandra out of her tranquility state.  I don't think it's random that we were given the choice to encourage Cassandra (or not) to "un-tranquil" the tranquils.

 

Not-so-random connection I see in the bigger picture: If Cassandra also has the Seekers rebuilt, besides the tranquils healed and awake, they could stand a strong opposition to The Order of the Fiery Promise (because that cult could definitely assist Solas in one way or another, since they share common goals).

 

 

 

Great questions OP!

 

Thank you! I know maybe we don't have any answers, but it's surely fun to theorize =D