430 réponses à ce sujet

[Battlebloodmage]

OK, sure, the guy with the power and intent to genocide the entire world is going to be a side note, and there there is something more important that the destruction of the entire world in the next game, and Bioware spent all that effort to build Solas up just to troll people. 

 

I also see the series as a world and not a single protagonist. In general, I hate returning protagonist's and am glad Bioware didn't do another series like ME with the same character all the time. But that doesn't mean you cut a story off at the half way point just because of some ancient "new protagonist every game" rule. You finish the story you started, you don't drop it at "I swear I'll do whatever it takes to kill you". If my Inquisitor doesn't get an ending to her story (and Bioware specifically went out of their way to open it in Trespasser, things were fine how they were in the main game), I have no reason to be interested in the story for the next protagonist - because maybe she won't get an ending either. 

Sure, anymore fanfic I should know about? i speak with an uncertainty because his role could be many things to assumed anything while you seem to speak as if you know what their plan is. Fill me in the rest of the plot for the next game, too. 

 

They could come back like Hawke so doesn't necessary mean you don't get your precious closure. 

[MiyuEmi]

If Solas ends up being the big bad, a lot of people would be very upset with that.  I personally don't see his character as an antagonist.  It would be a shame if Bioware decided to take an "easy" route again when deciding on a main antagonist.  I think some information about the game was too contrived in the way that it was tied up in the Trespasser DLC.  Just my opinion, but all this kind of 'forced' storytelling doesn't sit well with me.  I would prefer more emphasis on story in the next game and I would prefer to see the elvish and tevinter people be explored more rather than just deciding to make them the sources of all of thedas's problems.  Elves and Tevinter people are looked down upon by everyone in Thedas and it's just disappointing that Bioware has decided to confirm, in a way, rather than challenge the general beliefs on this.  As in the real world, there are numerous things that human beings were convinced were truths, to only have knowledge and experience prove otherwise.

 

I love the companions in DAI, but I think the story does really kind of leave a lot to be desired and I was/am admittedly very disappointed that they decided to take what I consider shortcuts in story telling rather than expanding on what could prove to be a very colourful and diverse world.

[Sah291]

OK, sure, the guy with the power and intent to genocide the entire world is going to be a side note, and there there is something more important that the destruction of the entire world in the next game, and Bioware spent all that effort to build Solas up just to troll people. 

 

 

It would kinda be like making Thor: Ragnarok... without Thor and Loki..  Just, no. 

 

The only way I see that happening, is if they just decide to change directions, or make DA4 a shorter side story like DA2 was originally planned to be, and push the main story arc out to DA5 or something.

[Smudjygirl]

OK, sure, the guy with the power and intent to genocide the entire world is going to be a side note, and there there is something more important that the destruction of the entire world in the next game, and Bioware spent all that effort to build Solas up just to troll people. 

 

I also see the series as a world and not a single protagonist. In general, I hate returning protagonist's and am glad Bioware didn't do another series like ME with the same character all the time. But that doesn't mean you cut a story off at the half way point just because of some ancient "new protagonist every game" rule. You finish the story you started, you don't drop it at "I swear I'll do whatever it takes to kill you". If my Inquisitor doesn't get an ending to her story (and Bioware specifically went out of their way to open it in Trespasser, things were fine how they were in the main game), I have no reason to be interested in the story for the next protagonist - because maybe she won't get an ending either. 

 

Obviously we know next to nothing about what is coming next, but the clue that Solas' story will continue/climax in the next game, we can only grasp at straws.

But common complaints were:

Recycled boss with obvious connection to previous hero

Anti-climax of stories set up previously (Cory, Mage/templar war, red lyrium)

Previous PC cameo did not meet with player expectations (Hawke)

 

and so on

 

Unless they can effectively make a new PC care about what Solas is doing in a similar way to the Inquisitor, they run the risk of turning Solas' story into yet another trite rags-to-riches-stop-mindless-big-bad, which i would hate to happen.

 

Pitfalls of Inquisitor returning are, of course:

Potential disadvantage for new players

Not getting to see Tevinter through the eyes of a magister/slave

Other stuff will have to go on with Solas' story to make it fit a game, which the Inquisitor will likely have no real connection to.

 

I usually preorder the DA games, but i'm going to hold of deciding to buy DA4 if the Inquisitor is not PC (providing Solas is the main antagonist)

[Abyss108]

Sure, anymore fanfic I should know about? i speak with an uncertainty while you seem to speak as if you know what their plan is. Fill me in the rest of the plot for the next game, too.. 

 

They could come back like Hawke so doesn't necessary mean you don't get your precious closure. 

 

Right, because repeating what was said in the game, and directly by the developers themselves is fanfic. 

[Battlebloodmage]

It would kinda be like making Thor: Ragnarok... without Thor and Loki..  Just, no. 

 

The only way I see that happening, is if they just decide to change directions, or make DA4 a shorter side story like DA2 was originally planned to be, and push the main story arc out to DA5 or something.

Maybe if the series is called Dragon Age Inquisition, then you may have a point.

[Battlebloodmage]

Right, because repeating what was said in the game, and directly by the developers themselves is fanfic. 

I think you mean putting words in the writers' mouth since nothing being revealed about the plot itself. lol

[Sah291]

Maybe if the series is called Dragon Age Inquisition, then you may have a point.

 

No, but Weekes did compare the stinger at the end of DAI to that of a Marvel movie, so I tend to think it was intended as a teaser of what's to come for the next game, similarly. 

[Smudjygirl]

--

 

Solas is and always has been an antagonist. What makes him interesting is you got to know him as an ally with the Inquisitor, which no new PC will be able to do.

 

I may be missing your point, but Solas has always been against you, using you for his own ends

[Abyss108]

I think you mean putting words in the writers' mouth since nothing being revealed about the plot itself. lol

 

I haven't put any words in their mouth, I've pointed out the actual words they have said.

[Battlebloodmage]

No, but Weekes did compare the stinger at the end of DAI to that of a Marvel movie, so I tend to think it was intended as a teaser of what's to come for the next game, similarly. 

Which Marvel movie and in what context? Setting up a recurring antagonist or a continuous story? 

[Battlebloodmage]

I haven't put any words in their mouth, I've pointed out the actual words they have said.

You point out they said he would be an antagonist that can be filled in for many roles. That's it. 

[Abyss108]

 

Which Marvel movie and in what context? Setting up a recurring antagonist or a continuous story? 

 

Pretty much every Marvel movie has a stinger after the credits setting up the next movie. Exactly like Inquisition has the characters saying they are going to fight Solas. The devs said this is what they were going for, and it was supposed to hint about the next game. 

 

You point out they said he would be an antagonist that can be filled in for many roles. That's it. 

 

Yes, and you apparently think genocide of the world is going to be a side plot.

[Battlebloodmage]

 

 

 

Pretty much every Marvel movie has a stinger after the credits setting up the next movie. Exactly like Inquisition has the characters saying they are going to fight Solas. The devs said this is what they were going for, and it was supposed to hint about the next game. 

 

 

Yes, and you apparently think genocide of the world is going to be a side plot.

 

Yup, putting more words in my mouth like you always do. He may but he may also not. You see, the difference is you assume stuffs about everything and everyone while I keep a skeptical mind about what could be.  

 

Going to fight Solas like popping up alongside the new protagonist like Hawke?

[Abyss108]

Yup, putting more words in my mouth like you always do. He may but he may also not. You see, the difference is you assume stuffs about everything and everyone while I keep a skeptical mind about what could be. 

 

Going to fight Solas like popping up alongside the new protagonist like Hawke?

 

"He may but he may also not"? What are you talking about here? What Solas intends? Because he specifically said he was going to destroy the world and genocide everyone.

 

"Going to fight Solas like popping up alongside the new protagonist like Hawke?"? I assume you have gone back to talking about the Inquisitor here? I'm not sure why, since I've never disagreed that this could possibly happen. All I've said is that Solas is the villain.

 

You are not "keeping a skeptical mind" here, you are ignoring what the game and the devs tell you.

[Battlebloodmage]

"He may but he may also not"? What are you talking about here? What Solas intends? Because he specifically said he was going to destroy the world and genocide everyone.

 

"Going to fight Solas like popping up alongside the new protagonist like Hawke?"? I assume you have gone back to talking about the Inquisitor here? I'm not sure why, since I've never disagreed that this could possibly happen. All I've said is that Solas is the villain.

 

You are not "keeping a skeptical mind" here, you are ignoring what the game and the devs tell you.

As in his role in the game, he could be an antagonist or the big bad or another big bad may pop up and he may sacrifice himself, he may get his powers stolen, he may be defeated before he could do it halfway through. His intention has nothing to do with whether he could achieve it or not. No one argue he isn't a villain. I'm more skeptical about his role but you keep on writing that fanfic about knowing Solas will definitely be the final big bad villain since you know so much about the game. 

[MiyuEmi]

@Smudjygirl  Not in my opinion.  He set out to do something that had nothing to do with you and I don't see that he is in any way whatsoever working against you.  What he wants in the main campaign is to retrieve his orb.  In contrast, he actually HAS to work with you to even get to his orb.

 

I suppose what I'm saying is that choosing Solas to be an antagonist is an easy way out.  People in Thedas don't like Elves or Tevinters due to their prowess with magic.  It was almost like saying, well, that's just easier, rather than really delving into the story, the way a player would.  I want there to be more, I don't want an easy answer.  I want to know that what I paid €70 for (plus any DLC costs) had thought put into it and not just flashy graphics.  I might not be explaining myself well, but I don't like the idea of 'well, everyone knows they're bad' so just making them bad.

 

Fen'Harel is not a 'bad' god, and it disappoints that the easy route was taken to say well, let's make him bad.  I believe that Solas as a character is far more complex than that and making him an antagonist is an easy way out.  I don't consider him an antagonist and was very disappointed that the cheap route was taken to make him so.

[Sah291]

Which Marvel movie and in what context? Setting up a recurring antagonist or a continuous story? 

 

The context was about the Trespasser DLC not being supported on the older platforms, if I remember correctly. People on old platforms were upset about that because they felt their main game would be left unfinished without the DLC. They explained the main ending in DAI was meant to close out the story of Corypheus, and the after credits stinger at the end was meant to be a teaser like at the end of a Marvel movie. 

[Smudjygirl]

@Smudjygirl  Not in my opinion.  He set out to do something that had nothing to do with you and I don't see that he is in any way whatsoever working against you.  What he wants in the main campaign is to retrieve his orb.  In contrast, he actually HAS to work with you to even get to his orb.

 

I suppose what I'm saying is that choosing Solas to be an antagonist is an easy way out.  People in Thedas don't like Elves or Tevinters due to their prowess with magic.  It was almost like saying, well, that's just easier, rather than really delving into the story, the way a player would.  I want there to be more, I don't want an easy answer.  I want to know that what I paid €70 for (plus any DLC costs) had thought put into it and not just flashy graphics.  I might not be explaining myself well, but I don't like the idea of 'well, everyone knows they're bad' so just making them bad.

 

Fen'Harel is not a 'bad' god, and it disappoints that the easy route was taken to say well, let's make him bad.  I believe that Solas as a character is far more complex than that and making him an antagonist is an easy way out.  I don't consider him an antagonist and was very disappointed that the cheap route was taken to make him so.

 

Solas' goal is the restoration of the Elven people, and that has been it from the start. To do this he needs his orb, which he wanted to use Cory to unlock. Obviously his plan fails and he has to help you restore some semblance of order to do his plan.

 

He says he will restore the world of the elves "even if it means this world must die". He has always known that in order to fix his mistake he will have to kill potentially millions of people, and that you, who worked hard to save everyone, would not want to help or allow him to do this. His cause is now completely against everything the Inquisitor stands for, and the Inquisitor knows he used them to achieve this. Solas is not the stereotypical bad guys, but he is an antagonist.

 

From the start his plan was to bring down the veil, killing many people. The Inquisition was a bleep in his plan. Befriending or romancing him doesn't change his course, and making an enemy of him makes him believe in it more.

 

He has always been an antagonist, they're not changing him into one. He (indirectly) tells you about his orb and how he wants it back. The scene at the end tells us Flemeth know what he was up to. The hints of his hand in the events are in the vanilla game, he didn't switch to being "evil", it's just he can now pursue his goals freely.

 

But if you put in a new PC i bet that all of this depth of character will be lost and he will become the trite big bad you're worried about.

[Sah291]

But if you put in a new PC i bet that all of this depth of character will be lost and he will become the trite big bad you're worried about.

 

It would be, because with a new PC there would be no reason to bring up personal events that occurred in DAI. Just as there was no reason in DAI to bring up some of the personal stuff hinted at about Cory in Legacy, such as his connection with Hawke's father, or the consequences of which Warden Hawke sided with, and the choice to either free him and try to make him an ally, or to oppose him right from the start. Details like that.

[MiyuEmi]

@Smudjygirl  I'm sorry I just don't see it that way.  With regard to his goal being 'the restoration of the elven people' that is not known to be his motivation unless you play the DLC.  His goal is to reclaim his orb in the main story quest line.  The way they developed his character through the DLC was disappointing to say the least.

 

The story within this games suffers when there was so much rich information from which they had to draw.  I think he needed Cory to power the orb because he was too weak upon waking.  He has a guilt trip the size of a dwarf planet and making him an antagonist, regardless of when this angle was decided upon, was an easy way out.  Again, my opinion.  I can understand your feelings however, I just think that choosing the 'easy' option with regard to story telling was very disappointing here considering that so many were still reeling from the DA:2 debacle.

 

I suppose this is at the core of why I don't want the Inquisitors story to continue on if a DA4 is created.  I felt this story was weak and I didn't really care much about it, but I do care about the companions, so deciding to make one of them, the Elf (who everyone hates), the main antagonist is easy or lazy decision making and I didn't like it.  I don't feel connected to this story or my main Inquisitor at all, despite numerous playthroughs, I can't find myself actually caring about them because the story is disconnected.

 

I like Solas' character and find it immensely disappointing that they would take that level of wisdom about a people we know little about and just make it the antagonist.  Like many others though, I understand why you accept this position, because it's written plain as day.  Just as it was obvious from the very beginning (to me) that Solas was not what he claimed to be and knew more than he claimed to know.  I think that good twists and antagonists were considered in the first one best.  Alistair is rightfully next in line for the throne, he wants nothing to do with it.  You can actually recruit the assassin hired to kill you, etc.  Unlike Arl Howe (who was just an a$%), Logain did what he did in a genuine attempt to help the people by freeing them from an immature King.  These complex characters led to a more complex story generally and I appreciated it.

 

I suppose that DAI was also suffering from a desire by fans to see particular things and Bioware delivered that.  Leliana, despite the possibility that she was left behind in DAO, her canon is that she survives and is around for DA:2.  Morrigan, who apparently decided to come out of hiding with her 'old god' son to work in an Imperial Court (that won't put him at any risk)?  I just think that things became sloppy after DAO with regard to storytelling.  Development time for DAO was 6 years.  DA2 was 1 year and DAI was I think 3 years, and it does show.

 

I'm glad you're happy with it, honestly, but I really disliked this direction and never considered Solas an antagonist, just an easy out.

[Drakoriz]

hey guys a quick question u recommend to restart the game to play trespasser or just play the DLC?

[Battlebloodmage]

hey guys a quick question u recommend to restart the game to play trespasser or just play the DLC?

Depending on your choices, certain decisions you make can kill a bunch of your companions in the DLC and even the advisors themselves. If you fail to do certain quests, some of your companions would die as well since the Trespass is supposed to be the last DLC to be played after completed the game. I don't know how much you know about the game, so I won't spoil it for you, but most of the decisions you consider "good" won't kill anyone. 

[Abyss108]

hey guys a quick question u recommend to restart the game to play trespasser or just play the DLC?

 

Well, if you restart the game, you will have to replay the entire thing again before you can play Trespasser. I guess it depends on whether you want/have time to play the entire game through again.

[Smudjygirl]

---

 

 

I sort of get what you mean, but that doesn't change the fact that Solas was made to be an antagonist.

 

And who hates him?  One aspect i enjoyed was just how different his attitude is depending on how much he likes the Inquisitor.  Ranges from bitter sorrow for what he is going to do to vehement hate.

 

But it wasn't a lazy decision by any means, because that is how they planned it from the start. I get that you don't like this angle, but he is no different now than he was at the start of the game. Wise and kind yet cold and calculating. It's character development and exactly why i care about this plot so much.

 

But i think this is different from Leliana and Morrigan. For one they had no idea Dragon age would have more than one game, so they had to correct many plot holes, which they don't have to do now because another game is almost guaranteed.

 

Again, i understand what you mean, but i think Solas' story is one of the strongest and most interesting since Origins. (Though origins wasn't the pinnacle of game perfection others hold it up to be)

 

(I keep misreading things because i don't have my glasses, so sorry if i say something completely unrelated to what you actually wrote)