86 réponses à ce sujet

[Gervaise]

I'd just point out concerning prophesy, that Drakon also had a vision of the end of the world that starts with the sky splitting open, spilling waters from the Fade "opening an eye to look upon the Realm of Opposition in dire judgment."   In the vision of Andraste concerning the creation of the world, the Realm of Opposition is the material world of Thedas.     Suggest reading the entire exert from WoT2 because there are several references there that seem to fit either what has already occurred in the games or fits with the lore we now know.    Towards the end of the vision it seems to be suggested to Drakon that he must pass through fire to reach the eternal life.     When you consider that the promisors believed that the world was so broken the only solution was for its utter destruction in fire, so a new world could rise from the ashes, you do start to wonder where all these ideas originated.    Was Solas touching their minds in their dreams and they had a vision of what he intended when he awoke from sleep (in which case Solas is the Maker) or is some other being behind it all and even Solas' plans are not really his own.

[greenbrownblue]

I'd just point out concerning prophesy, that Drakon also had a vision of the end of the world that starts with the sky splitting open, spilling waters from the Fade "opening an eye to look upon the Realm of Opposition in dire judgment."   In the vision of Andraste concerning the creation of the world, the Realm of Opposition is the material world of Thedas.     Suggest reading the entire exert from WoT2 because there are several references there that seem to fit either what has already occurred in the games or fits with the lore we now know.    Towards the end of the vision it seems to be suggested to Drakon that he must pass through fire to reach the eternal life.     When you consider that the promisors believed that the world was so broken the only solution was for its utter destruction in fire, so a new world could rise from the ashes, you do start to wonder where all these ideas originated.    Was Solas touching their minds in their dreams and they had a vision of what he intended when he awoke from sleep (in which case Solas is the Maker) or is some other being behind it all and even Solas' plans are not really his own.

Hum, that's interesting. Do you have any useful links ?

 

Btw, just asking.... Did not you mean to write this post under the new topic about origins of humanity ? 

[greenbrownblue]

Hum, that's interesting. Do you have any useful links ?

 

Btw, just asking.... Did not you mean to write this post under the new topic about origins of humanity ? 

 

Asking because it is not really about Sera and Spirits, but kinda fits a conversation that I recently saw about humans.

[Xerrai]

Meh.

At most, i'm willing to beleive that she has supressed magical talent--but nothing mroe than that. No "oh a spirit is trapped inside of her" or "she is Andruil reborn/soul shard". If Sera has any peculiar magical talent at all, it is likely no more than that--a talent. Albeit one of the rarer forms of talent.

Talents can take on many forms; some can master 25 instruments, some can cook like a world class chef, yet the grand majority of people have no particular talent at all. Like some mages are especially good with fire spells, or if some of them are magical prodigies, the grand majority are just simple mages with no particular specialty at all.

 

If Sera is part of that 'talent' minority than good for her and all, but I see nothing particularly special about it. Seeing the future, feeling spirits and so on may be rare abilities but certainly not unheard of. It may even be a relic of her elvhen roots for all I know, but that can essentially be said for many elven mages (its just 'pronounced' with  her). It may make her unusual, it may make her a bit special in her own way--but not extraordinary in and of herself.

 

In the end she's just Sera. An immature, slightly frantic elf girl who abhors anything elfy and has a knack for shooting arrows.

[greenbrownblue]

Meh.

At most, i'm willing to beleive that she has supressed magical talent--but nothing mroe than that. No "oh a spirit is trapped inside of her" or "she is Andruil reborn/soul shard". If Sera has any peculiar magical talent at all, it is likely no more than that--a talent. Albeit one of the rarer forms of talent.

Talents can take on many forms; some can master 25 instruments, some can cook like a world class chef, yet the grand majority of people have no particular talent at all. Like some mages are especially good with fire spells, or if some of them are magical prodigies, the grand majority are just simple mages with no particular specialty at all.

 

If Sera is part of that 'talent' minority than good for her and all, but I see nothing particularly special about it. Seeing the future, feeling spirits and so on may be rare abilities but certainly not unheard of. It may even be a relic of her elvhen roots for all I know, but that can essentially be said for many elven mages (its just 'pronounced' with  her). It may make her unusual, it may make her a bit special in her own way--but not extraordinary in and of herself.

 

In the end she's just Sera. An immature, slightly frantic elf girl who abhors anything elfy and has a knack for shooting arrows.

I am actually still considering if larger group could be connected to a spirit. As someone here already said , bows had remnants of spirits from the trees they were made of. Today I stumbled upon a codex entry about Falon'Din and his brother. In that story, Falon'Din freed an old animal's spirit from the weakened body. So, elven pantheon is related to spirits (like Elgar'nan - "Spirit of vengance"), trees are related to spirits and now also animals. Makes me wonder if perhaps I am getting closer to the answer why "this world has to die for the elves to return". 

[Xerrai]

I am actually still considering if larger group could be connected to a spirit. As someone here already said , bows had remnants of spirits from the trees they were made of. Today I stumbled upon a codex entry about Falon'Din and his brother. In that story, Falon'Din freed an old animal's spirit from the weakened body. So, elven pantheon is related to spirits (like Elgar'nan - "Spirit of vengance"), trees are related to spirits and now also animals. Makes me wonder if perhaps I am getting closer to the answer why "this world has to die for the elves to return". 

Well there's no doubt that ancient elves had a different relationship with magic and spirits as a general whole in comparison to modern day Thedas. Theories as to 'how' range from ancient elves being more in-tune with the Fade (which pairs nicely with the typical elfy "one with nature" trope if you include Solas' "like a state of nature" bit) to merely being stronger mages.

Other theories still even go so far as to claim that elves can actually be spirits that have taken on physical form. That's not to say that they cannot procreate like regular mortals, but some are coming to believe that some ancient elves were like Cole in that they took physical bodies and eventually 'transformed' into something that was not a spirit (which has interesting Chant of Light parallels. Like the "first children" and "second children" bits). Several things like the codex entry "the Deepest Fade" and the exile of the Forbidden Ones seem to imply to a degree.

 

But that's pretty much all speculation by this point. Honestly if they wanted, the creators could go any number of ways as to how they want to expand on the lore of the elves even if it wasn't what they originally planned.

[Dai Grepher]

Ooooh, I brought Sera too, but only Cassandra and Solas commented her :/

 

I had Cassandra, Sera, and Dorian. Also, I think the responses might be random. Like, either Cass or Sera will talk. If you don't get Sera's comment the first time, reload and try again. Or just take her with you and no other companions perhaps.
 

[myahele]

Her being a spirit/ have a spirit in her makes alot more sense than her being Andruil.

[greenbrownblue]

Her being a spirit/ have a spirit in her makes alot more sense than her being Andruil.

Oh yes yes, I agree. With new info from Solas it is almost 100% certain that Sera is not related to Andruil.

[greenbrownblue]

I had Cassandra, Sera, and Dorian. Also, I think the responses might be random. Like, either Cass or Sera will talk. If you don't get Sera's comment the first time, reload and try again. Or just take her with you and no other companions perhaps.
 

Did not have a particular save for meeting the Chantry woman again, but I saw a vid on YT. Sera's reaction is indeed funny (as always ^^) !

[greenbrownblue]

Well there's no doubt that ancient elves had a different relationship with magic and spirits as a general whole in comparison to modern day Thedas. Theories as to 'how' range from ancient elves being more in-tune with the Fade (which pairs nicely with the typical elfy "one with nature" trope if you include Solas' "like a state of nature" bit) to merely being stronger mages.

Other theories still even go so far as to claim that elves can actually be spirits that have taken on physical form. That's not to say that they cannot procreate like regular mortals, but some are coming to believe that some ancient elves were like Cole in that they took physical bodies and eventually 'transformed' into something that was not a spirit (which has interesting Chant of Light parallels. Like the "first children" and "second children" bits). Several things like the codex entry "the Deepest Fade" and the exile of the Forbidden Ones seem to imply to a degree.

 

But that's pretty much all speculation by this point. Honestly if they wanted, the creators could go any number of ways as to how they want to expand on the lore of the elves even if it wasn't what they originally planned.

Well, we can only speculate until the next DA :v ... Considering that ME is still not done, it will take time before some of the ppl from ME team move to DA project. So killing time with theories and piecing together facts is a good way to kill time.

 

Btw, I understood that David Gaider was going to move onto a new Bio project, but he recently tweeted he was unenlpoyed (( ... Weird...

[myahele]

Given what we know about Spirits turning into flesh (Cole, Leliana if she was killed in DAO) and those having spirit companionship/ merger (Anders, Wynne, Avvar mages)

 

Sera's past seem confusing, there's a gap between when she was a kid and to now. 

 

Or she could be the closest to an Elvhen that Solas cant tell: that she's more connected to the Fade than she knows. Why? could simply be genetic lottery. Avexis could communicate dragons; the only one thusfar.

[greenbrownblue]

Given what we know about Spirits turning into flesh (Cole, Leliana if she was killed in DAO) and those having spirit companionship/ merger (Anders, Wynne, Avvar mages)

 

Sera's past seem confusing, there's a gap between when she was a kid and to now. 

 

Or she could be the closest to an Elvhen that Solas cant tell: that she's more connected to the Fade than she knows. Why? could simply be genetic lottery. Avexis could communicate dragons; the only one thusfar.

Well.... Avexis' talents were a side effect of feeding her dragon blood, was not it?

 

Btw, about Leliana. Check Lady Insanity's theory about Leliana, Mythal and Sandal being "agents" of the titans. I absolutely hope that her theory is at least half right, because it is SOOOOOO well done! 

 

[myahele]

Ah right, but she was specifically kidnapped due to her natural ability to communicate with animals. 

[greenbrownblue]

Ah right, but she was specifically kidnapped due to her natural ability to communicate with animals. 

Yeah. I see your point tho.

 

Jesss, I do not know why, but I kinda hope that Solas succeeds  in tearing down the  Veil. If not the whole, then at least over some part of Thedas (if that's even possible).  As cool as DA is, Templar-Mage conflict is getting boring. I guess devs are fully aware of that since they will prolly move to Tevinter with the next game.

[kimgoold]

I agree Sera is special, how we don't know yet; But in the Emerald Graves in the D'onferrio ? Chateau if you take Sera, Solas and Cassandra there is a strange exchange with Solas and Sera when you find the Books on blocking magic. Solas says such things never end well and Sera retorts for you maybe. Does this mean she or Emmald used something to block Sera's magical ability? and heightened connection to the fade and spirits? . 

 

And I do like the theory that Sera is connected in some way to Andruil, her fear and paranoia about spirits and the fade just seem to correlate with the codex of Andruil and hunting in the fade, madness and her distrust of mages could be because of Mythal tricking Andruil, I'm stretching true but it would be really interesting for these two characters to meet! (Sera and Morrithal/Flemithal or whoever has Mythal now)

[greenbrownblue]

I agree Sera is special, how we don't know yet; But in the Emerald Graves in the D'onferrio ? Chateau if you take Sera, Solas and Cassandra there is a strange exchange with Solas and Sera when you find the Books on blocking magic. Solas says such things never end well and Sera retorts for you maybe. Does this mean she or Emmald used something to block Sera's magical ability? and heightened connection to the fade and spirits? . 

 

And I do like the theory that Sera is connected in some way to Andruil, her fear and paranoia about spirits and the fade just seem to correlate with the codex of Andruil and hunting in the fade, madness and her distrust of mages could be because of Mythal tricking Andruil, I'm stretching true but it would be really interesting for these two characters to meet! (Sera and Morrithal/Flemithal or whoever has Mythal now)

Thanks, I will definitely go check that place with Solas ans Sera.

 

Out of curiosity. I know that the Andruil theory was created before the release of Trespasser DLC, but what about now? We know that all Evanuris were banished. Of course except for Mythal, but Solas did not know she was still lingering. Anyway, how can Sera be tied to Andruil?

[kimgoold]

I honestly don't know exactly how she is connected to Andruil, but perhaps a fragment of Andruil connected to Sera's mind, especially if she is an untrained hedge mage as most seem to think. As this is how a fragment of Mythal possibly survived (Flemmeth was a hedge mage too) it doesn't beggar belief that Andruil and indeed others of the Evanuris may have done the same thru contacting susceptable minds in the fade when dreaming?. Its an interesting conundrum. I don't believe Sera IS Andruil but that she is being influenced or has a fragment of her, possession? I don't know for certain.

[stop_him]

No. Sera is just Sera. Making her connected to some old God is essentially pulling a Solas twice. 

[Xerrai]

I honestly don't know exactly how she is connected to Andruil, but perhaps a fragment of Andruil connected to Sera's mind, especially if she is an untrained hedge mage as most seem to think. As this is how a fragment of Mythal possibly survived (Flemmeth was a hedge mage too) it doesn't beggar belief that Andruil and indeed others of the Evanuris may have done the same thru contacting susceptable minds in the fade when dreaming?. Its an interesting conundrum. I don't believe Sera IS Andruil but that she is being influenced or has a fragment of her, possession? I don't know for certain.

Perhaps the whole "Sera has bits of Andruil's spirit" has some weight to it, but it is important to remember that that theory has not been revised or revisited much ever since Trespasser came out. It's a bit dated, even though it is still technically possible.

But with Trespasser, two things are confirmed:

1) Mythal was murdered before the creation of the Veil.

2) The reason Solas created the Veil (while meant to punish them) was also created because they "do not die easily".

That last one is important because it reinforces the idea that Solas created the veil as a prison precisely because they can potentially pull off a 'rebirth' or 'possession' like we know Mythal can do. It is reasonable to assume, then, that their prison was specifically created to hinder or downright prohibit any 'rebirthing' or 'soul transferring' process that they could pull.

Assuming that the prison is working as intended (as suggest by their lack of a presence in the regular fade or the games in general) then unless Andruil put some contingency plan into action before her imprisonment, then it is very possible that Andruil truly is sealed completely. No spirit shards infesting a host anywhere.

 

I'm not saying its impossible, but these are important points to consider. Even if they are mage geniuses, the veil practically changes everything about how magic works (and that's even assuming their conscious--they could very easily be in a "dark and dreamless sleep").

[kimgoold]

Considering Solas created it? It has holes. The guy would drown drinking a glass of water.

[greenbrownblue]

I honestly don't know exactly how she is connected to Andruil, but perhaps a fragment of Andruil connected to Sera's mind, especially if she is an untrained hedge mage as most seem to think. As this is how a fragment of Mythal possibly survived (Flemmeth was a hedge mage too) it doesn't beggar belief that Andruil and indeed others of the Evanuris may have done the same thru contacting susceptable minds in the fade when dreaming?. Its an interesting conundrum. I don't believe Sera IS Andruil but that she is being influenced or has a fragment of her, possession? I don't know for certain.

Hum, considering how much Solas hated Andruil (his remarks in the Temple of Mythal and in the Trespasser DLC), I do not think he would treat Sera so kindly. I mean, she treats him like poop because of psychological abuse that she went thru (tho it could be Andruil's hate towards Solas), but Solas is actually very gentle, always trying to make the first step. says that Sera and him "are not so far apart". If Sera was possessed would not a Fade expert and a spirit tied being sense it?

[greenbrownblue]

No. Sera is just Sera. Making her connected to some old God is essentially pulling a Solas twice. 

I do not agree with the first part ("sera is sera"), but I also doubt there is a connection to Andruil (evanuris - not old god).

[greenbrownblue]

Perhaps the whole "Sera has bits of Andruil's spirit" has some weight to it, but it is important to remember that that theory has not been revised or revisited much ever since Trespasser came out. It's a bit dated, even though it is still technically possible.

But with Trespasser, two things are confirmed:

1) Mythal was murdered before the creation of the Veil.

2) The reason Solas created the Veil (while meant to punish them) was also created because they "do not die easily".

That last one is important because it reinforces the idea that Solas created the veil as a prison precisely because they can potentially pull off a 'rebirth' or 'possession' like we know Mythal can do. It is reasonable to assume, then, that their prison was specifically created to hinder or downright prohibit any 'rebirthing' or 'soul transferring' process that they could pull.

Assuming that the prison is working as intended (as suggest by their lack of a presence in the regular fade or the games in general) then unless Andruil put some contingency plan into action before her imprisonment, then it is very possible that Andruil truly is sealed completely. No spirit shards infesting a host anywhere.

 

I'm not saying its impossible, but these are important points to consider. Even if they are mage geniuses, the veil practically changes everything about how magic works (and that's even assuming their conscious--they could very easily be in a "dark and dreamless sleep").

 

Yup, I agree with you. What really completely does not make sense to me is Sera's lack of Vallaslin. As we know, evanuris were capable of controlling marked elves (mural in Trespasser DLC). If Sera was to be under Anruil's control, then at least she should be marked.

 

I dunno... There are many things that do not make sense. Like, why would she always try to kill the bullies - Andruil was a bully herself. Why she hates elven lore - Andruil is surely mad at Solas, but she does not have a reason to hate her Dalish subordinades and elven lore. If you do not discard elven gods afer "What Pride Had Wrought", she breaks up with you :/... And she is andrastian... 

 

The only link to Andruil is pretty much only the tarror card, which is not THAAAAT similar to Andruil's slave markings. The rest of the theory is based only on the tarrot card.

 

[greenbrownblue]

Considering Solas created it? It has holes. The guy would drown drinking a glass of water.

Hum, what are you referring to?