87 réponses à ce sujet

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

The way that I heard it explained in-game, the qunari weren't actually offering me frontline soldiers. I RP my inquisitor's main priority to be the acquisition of as many infantry as possible for the inquisition, so the Chargers make more sense. It's also a major reason why the Grey Wardens stick around.

[dgcatanisiri]

Bull admits that an actual alliance is not typical of the Qunari. Especially considering that my preferred Inquisitors are Vashoth, having grown up with tales of the Qun, my Inquisitors are already skeptical of the alliance to begin with. When it comes down to the idea that they can sacrifice the Chargers, a solid mercenary company (it's always implied that there's more to the Chargers than just Krem and the gang from the drinks scene) to protect an alliance they can't trust, there's not really a choice - go with what's dependable and spare the Chargers.

 

The Qunari offer might sound nice, but it's not something my Inquisitors will take at face value, which leads to a refusal to sacrifice the Chargers, who they know they can trust, for the sake of it.

[Medhia_Nox]

The reality is... that anyone even moderately educated in Thedas would know that the Qunari have promised for decades that they ARE going to invade again. 

 

And... as an uneducated Inquisitor (I would say an Inquisitor who doesn't take all the Dialogue perks) - you have advisers who would tell you:  For decades the Qunari have promised to invade.  This alliance is one of convenience.

 

The Qunari are making an alliance because it will comfort the Inquisitor and the Inquisition and thereby allow them to be more pliable.  The Qun does not speak "alliance" - it isn't part of their reality.  However, manipulating the rest of Thedas is their modus operandi... and anyone who took the alliance were doing exactly as the "Qun Demands". 

[Aimi]

But if you don't trust qunari to honor their commitments, you shouldn't even be getting this quest in the first place.

 
Why not? The Inquisitor takes a flier on the idea of cooperating with the qunari so long as the costs of the alliance are negligible, and gets out as soon as the qunari come to collect. Seems like an exceedingly reasonable thing to do for an Inquisitor who doesn't trust them.

[GoldenGail3]

Save the Chargers. Qunari are scumabags that want to take over Thedas - don't trust them remotely.

[Melbella]

The fact that neither Bull nor Gatt could really offer anything that the Inquisition would gain from the alliance was one red flag. Another red flag was, "Where are all the mages?" during the first skirmish. No group of Venatori would be without several of them on a mission like this. In my first game, I didn't see even one (yes, I know one is there) so not seeing any was a huge clue that something was amiss.

 

So, faulty/incomplete (intentional or incompetent, both are bad) intel + no real incentive to ally with qunari = save Chargers.

 

The smuggler ship gets taken out either way.

[The Baconer]

I wonder if saving the Dreadnaught could offer an alternate world state variation with the Qun in DA4 since, via the epilogue description, they consider the alliance ongoing. You lose Bull and Chargers but you gain a world state variation only by making that decision.

 

I mean... it's downright offensive for them to come back around and act like everything is all chill, or to even ask the Divine for assistance against Tevinter. 

 

Though, it would be funny if this world state leads to an even more hostile reaction from southern Thedas than the non-allied ending. 

[ModernAcademic]

I hate sacrificing the Chargers, so it depends on what long term goal my Inquisitor has where relations with Tevinter and the Qunari are concerned.

 

By the end of Trespasser, it becomes quite clear the Qunari will invade Tevinter and also oppose Solas in his efforts to tear the Veil. So if my Inquisitor intends to redeem Solas, he/she can't let him think the Inquisition is allied with the Qunari. If, however, the intent is to stop Solas, then by all means sacrifice the Chagers and ensure an alliance.

 

Because I need to earn the trust of the Qunari so as to not make them see the Inquisition as a threat and postpone an inevitable conflict, here's what I usually do:

• I let the Chargers die, secure an alliance with the Qunari and keep Bull as a spy.
• Then I place Gaspard on the throne to strenghten the Empire's military might, since Orlais is the only nation keeping Tevinter from invading the South (Josephine's words). I don't spare Briala because she could decide to work for Solas in the future.
• I save the Templars and conscript them to the Inquisition and then help Cullen overcome his addiction. I also spare Calpernia's life, in the hopes she'll survive and return to Tevinter.

 

Those are the three measures I take when I play with that long term goal in mind. I personally prefer a truce in Orlais, to save the mages and the Chargers, so it all depends on what kind of Inquisitor I choose to play at the moment.

[Jason1990]

Iron bull fits my second playthrough.. so i will save the chargers.. i killed them on my first game. Yes, i was power hungry and wanted to have stronger troops instead of some self trained merca

[Cribbian]

Well, my mainquisitor listened to his conscience wich told him that saving the chargers was the right thing to do.

 

For some other of my playthroughs, I have an elf who won't sacrifice a fellow dalish. A human who is pro-qun who wants the alliance.

Spoiler

She will also be romancing Bull and don't want him to become Tal'vasoth and yes I know what will happen in trespasser.

 

My biggest problem is with my pro-chantry solve stuff with military strenght inquisitor. On one hand an alliance against the venatori seems like a good plan. On the other he considers the qunari to be filthy heretics. Not sure what I choose with him.

[ArcadiaGrey]

I hate sacrificing the Chargers, so it depends on what long term goal my Inquisitor has where relations with Tevinter and the Qunari are concerned.

 

By the end of Trespasser, it becomes quite clear the Qunari will invade Tevinter and also oppose Solas in his efforts to tear the Veil. So if my Inquisitor intends to redeem Solas, he/she can't let him think the Inquisition is allied with the Qunari. If, however, the intent is to stop Solas, then by all means sacrifice the Chagers and ensure an alliance.

 

Because I need to earn the trust of the Qunari so as to not make them see the Inquisition as a threat and postpone an inevitable conflict, here's what I usually do:

• I let the Chargers die, secure an alliance with the Qunari and keep Bull as a spy.
• Then I place Gaspard on the throne to strenghten the Empire's military might, since Orlais is the only nation keeping Tevinter from invading the South (Josephine's words). I don't spare Briala because she could decide to work for Solas in the future.
• I save the Templars and conscript them to the Inquisition and then help Cullen overcome his addiction. I also spare Calpernia's life, in the hopes she'll survive and return to Tevinter.

 

Those are the three measures I take when I play with that long term goal in mind. I personally prefer a truce in Orlais, to save the mages and the Chargers, so it all depends on what kind of Inquisitor I choose to play at the moment.

 

I love that reasoning, might steal it for myself.  

 

But I honestly haven't thought of the politics as a whole in that way before, that Briala could work for Solas and be his stooge in the Orlesian court hadn't occured to me.  Love the world you made there. (yup I'm definitely doing all those things)

[Obsidian Gryphon]

Without taking Trespasser into account and going by the information dropped by IB and Gatt -

Qunari have only one goal - indoctrination and make the world into what they think it must be. Their rule is - Follow. If you cannot follow, we'll try warping your mind. If we judge you're not even worth the attempt, into the ground you go.

 

Ally with that? Who's to say they wouldn't  resist to bite once Cory is gone when their agents filtered at will into Thedas, "allying" with the inquisition. No, the Chargers stay, the dreadnaught can go boom.

 

Post Trespasser. I don't doubt they will kill the inquisitor. The inquisitor is an abomination to them, anything to do with magic, they loathe. If they cannot control it themselves, they want it gone. Dead and gone. An alliance meant they can move their people into suitable positions.  Assassination can take place and it won't be anything like what happened with IB.

[Qun00]

My reasoning....

Kill the chargers - a noble who can see the bigger picture and is perhaps willing to take losses. Knows the power of the Qunari and what an asset they'd be. May think all mercs are scum and doesn't care to save them, is happy to use them as they're dispensible.

Save them - a mage who hates the Qunari for their attitudes to magic. Or a dwarf/elf who knows the value of good teammates who are regular fighting folk, and is loyal to them. A Cadash would respect mercs as was basically one themselves.

But the question remains. The one nobody here has answered.

Why would the Inquisitor bother going through with this if s/he doesn't like the Qunari?

[ArcadiaGrey]

But the question remains. The one nobody here has answered.

Why would the Inquisitor bother going through with this if s/he doesn't like the Qunari?

 

Welp, that's true.  But then you can say that about many quests or even recruiting companions.  There are some companions that I know my IQ won't like, but I recruit them anyway just so I can be mean to them and see what happens.  Better that than walk away and miss out on content.

Happens all the time in video games, you do something your pc wouldn't necessarily do, because content.

[TheKomandorShepard]

But the question remains. The one nobody here has answered.

Why would the Inquisitor bother going through with this if s/he doesn't like the Qunari?

To stop Venatorii operation? Pretty sure i already answered it.

[ArcadiaGrey]

...which begs the question, if you recruit Bull but refuse his mission, what would happen?

[Bardox9]

I can't justify not saving the chargers. I know there are more lives lost for not siding with the Qun on this one, and Bull is turned into a traitor for it, but the Qunari don't really do anything for you or the Inquisition. The chargers are at least useful. I don't really feel bad about Iron Bull being labeled a traitor either. From what I see of the man, he hasn't been a follower of the Qun for a long time. He's certainly not the religious sort either. And then there is the so called alliance with the Qunari, which as we see in Trespasser, is not worth a damn IMO. They turn on you without hesitation.

 

I have no hate for the Qunari nor their Qun, but they are not loyal to you nor the Inquisition. The chargers are part of the Inquisition. If you leave them to die for people you never meet and never actually contribute anything, why should anyone risk their lives on your orders again if you are not going to be there for them when they need you? Even if you are a Qunari Inquisitor, your are officially a Tal Vasoth anyway. If it a life that works for you, it can work for the Iron Bull too.

 

Leave the Dreadnought to burn and save your true allies.

[KaiserShep]

The way I see it, the qunari have a particular interest in stopping any major Tevinter operations that could threaten their homeland, so it's not as if they'll just stop fighting them. As for the quest that determines whether or not this alliance even happens, I like to see it as an opportunity to get a bit closer to this faction to see what they're all about, without the intention of necessarily committing to anything beyond that. It's made pretty clear also that qunari don't negotiate, which is a pretty big red flag right there, especially when even their own agents in the field are iffy about the concept of joining forces.

[Iakus]

...which begs the question, if you recruit Bull but refuse his mission, what would happen?

My understanding (as far as Trespasser goes) is

 

Spoiler

the Chargers live, but Bull stays loyal to the Qun and ultimately betrays the Inquisitor

[vertigomez]

I play it as I see it.

Ain't nobody got time for the Qun.

[Ghost Gal]

I've found this one to be interesting. On the one hand, should you really be picking one group of soldiers to die just because you've met the other group? On the other hand, the group you've met is loyal to you in a way the other group is not. But if you don't trust qunari to honor their commitments, you shouldn't even be getting this quest in the first place.

 

It was important to Bull, so I was willing to give them a chance.

 

But when I had to choose between my people and theirs, guess who sunk? (It's not like the Qunari would have chosen to sacrifice their own people to save mine had the situation been reversed.)

[straykat]

I always recruit everyone. For as much as some games are i want every single piece of content i can get. They're video game characters so they could never annoy me or ****** me off. They're not real.

 

i understand that, from a game point of view. Not an RPG specifically though. Or a piece of literature. I have to have believable motives for my actions. Treating things as simply content is kind of a Theme Park approach. Which works.. I just don't like it.

 

Or maybe this is my acting history.. I dabbled in theater a bit. I was the same way there. Kind of how I view RPGs, if that makes sense.

[Jukaga]

Sacrificed the Chargers on one run, got a bunch of Ben Hassarath table missions that amounted to nothing and Bull trying to kill me in Trespasser. I usually save the Chargers, I'd try a Bull-less playthrough but FPJ just nailed this character and I'd miss him.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

I don't recruit Bull in the first place... never even played the quest. How do you even RP having him to begin with? That's my question.

 

 

OK, I did at first. But I was bummed, so I deleted that save.

 

I agree with this. I actually am less anti-Qunari than most folks here, but recruiting someone who tells you "I'm a spy for ___" (and especially those guys) is plain idiotic. I don't care if it loses a companion -- he's not even very good, at that, combat or character -- playing as a trusting fool is lame.

 

So, if you're going to recruit one of their spies, you might as well get their army on board as well. The Chargers may be a more loyal group, but the problem is... they suck. They were evenly-matched (1:1) against the Venatori they were sent to fight, and they wiped without killing a single one. That is pretty much the definition of "expendable."

[straykat]

I agree with this. I actually am less anti-Qunari than most folks here, but recruiting someone who tells you "I'm a spy for ___" (and especially those guys) is plain idiotic. I don't care if it loses a companion; he's not even very good, at that (combat or character).

 

So, if you're going to recruit one of their spies, you might as well get their army on board as well. The Chargers may be a more loyal group, but the problem is... they suck. They were evenly-matched (1:1) against the Venatori they were sent to fight, and they wiped without killing a single one. That is pretty much the definition of "expendable."

 

Yup.. if I bothered with it at all, I'd go with the Qunari. What would be the point of recruiting him otherwise? Recruiting him is already kind of being OK with the Qunari. Except I don't want a spy in the first place. That's crazy. At least for any Inquisitor I can come up with.

 

Or I could simply approach it as "content" and be more carefree. It's how I think they want me to experience a lot of things.. from this sort of passive, consumer approach. But that sucks.