87 réponses à ce sujet

[ArcadiaGrey]

My understanding (as far as Trespasser goes) is

 

Spoiler

the Chargers live, but Bull stays loyal to the Qun and ultimately betrays the Inquisitor

 

That's a neat outcome, might have to try that.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Yup.. if I bothered with it at all, I'd go with the Qunari. What would be the point of recruiting him otherwise? Recruiting him is already kind of being OK with the Qunari. Except I don't want a spy in the first place. That's crazy. At least for any Inquisitor I can come up with.

Or I could simply approach it as "content" and be more carefree. It's how I think they want me to experience a lot of things.. from this sort of passive, consumer approach. But that sucks.

I didn't even look at it as recruiting Iron Bull. I just wanted mercenaries to join my army.

[AlanC9]

Why not? The Inquisitor takes a flier on the idea of cooperating with the qunari so long as the costs of the alliance are negligible, and gets out as soon as the qunari come to collect. Seems like an exceedingly reasonable thing to do for an Inquisitor who doesn't trust them.

I wasn't clear. My point was that you trust the Iron Bull, who's got to still be loyal to the Qun at that point. DotQ is approval-gated, IIRC.

[Heimdall]

I roleplay it as a character who is suspicious of the Qun, but is willing to give them a chance because of the Iron Bull's cooperation.

But not only did the Qunari have bad intel, Gatt revealed they were far from onboard with Iron Bull's open cooperation and sharing of information.

The Chargers are an elite loyal unit, I wasn't going to sacrifice them for an alliance with a power that has repeatedly proven to be uninterested in cooperation.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

I roleplay it as a character who is suspicious of the Qun, but is willing to give them a chance because of the Iron Bull's cooperation.

But not only did the Qunari have bad intel, Gatt revealed they were far from onboard with Iron Bull's open cooperation and sharing of information.

The Chargers are an elite loyal unit, I wasn't going to sacrifice them for an alliance with a power that has repeatedly proven to be uninterested in cooperation.

 

Oh yeah, the "bad intel" argument. Almost forgot. The Qunari caught-on to SolASS's activities. The Inquisition OTOH was closer to him and did not have so much as a clue about it, never mind piecing the puzzle together. So the Qunari's "bad" intel is an upgrade over whatever the Inquisition has.

 

Also, the Chargers are not an "elite unit." The Inquisitor + companions is an elite unit; elite units do not lose to a handful of Venatori.

[Aimi]

I wasn't clear. My point was that you trust the Iron Bull, who's got to still be loyal to the Qun at that point. DotQ is approval-gated, IIRC.

Yeah, it's approval-gated, but indicating trust in either Bull or the qunari is completely unnecessary to get +35 approval, and the Inquisitor has at least two, and probably more, opportunities to indicate a lack of trust before the quest.

[Iakus]

Yeah, it's approval-gated, but indicating trust in either Bull or the qunari is completely unnecessary to get +35 approval, and the Inquisitor has at least two, and probably more, opportunities to indicate a lack of trust before the quest.

Heck you can indicate lack of trust even as you agree to bring him into the Inquisition.

[AlanC9]

Oh yeah, the "bad intel" argument. Almost forgot. The Qunari caught-on to SolASS's activities. The Inquisition OTOH was closer to him and did not have so much as a clue about it, never mind piecing the puzzle together. So the Qunari's "bad" intel is an upgrade over whatever the Inquisition has.

While true, this is all in the future. The Inquisitor can't know about this when making the decision.

[AlanC9]

Yeah, it's approval-gated, but indicating trust in either Bull or the qunari is completely unnecessary to get +35 approval, and the Inquisitor has at least two, and probably more, opportunities to indicate a lack of trust before the quest.

I'll take your word for it. Most of my Quizzys have gotten along well with IB.

[Aimi]

I'll take your word for it. Most of my Quizzys have gotten along well with IB.

Many of mine do, too.

[themikefest]

It depends on the playthrough and what I feel like doing. A couple of playthroughs I never did the quest. When I start another playthrough, not sure when that will be, I might choose to save the chargers

[AnimalBoy]

I guess i'm a rare breed around here. I care a lot about content and  make my choices in game based on what makes me happy as a fan. Nothing else.

[Bardox9]

The Qunari are not loyal to you nor the Inquisition itself. Like all things, the Inquisition is looked upon as a tool. One that is thrown away without hesitation. Doubly so if you play as a Tal Vashoth (a Qunari that has left the Qun) Inquisitor. You are seen as an abomination that deserves nothing but death. Any other race and you are Baas, a lower life form that they would sooner attack you as talk to you.

 

I cannot justify choosing the Dreadnought over the chargers. The Chargers are fighting with you while the Qunari sit on their ship letting you take all the risks. The Qunari as a race, I have nothing against, but in this particular scenario I am not sacrificing my men for them.

[Patchwork]

I have roleplay reasons for choosing the alliance like it's the better strategic move and playing a character who's trying to see the big picture but honestly I go for the alliance because I don't like how heavy handed BW are with the Chargers.

[ArcaneEsper]

During my first run, I didn't get the quest but my Iris Lavellan would have saved the Chargers.

My Hestia Adaar, is a Qun hating Tal Vashoth who lacked a knack for politics. So bye bye Qunari.

Athena Cadash on the other hand, was shrewd and put the Inquisition before anything else so bye bye Chargers.

At a personal level I wouldn't sacrifice the Chargers but I try to detach how I feel from the characters I create.

[nightscrawl]

But the question remains. The one nobody here has answered.

Why would the Inquisitor bother going through with this if s/he doesn't like the Qunari?

Are you referring to taking the quest at all? To my understanding, even if you express doubt and so forth, you cannot outright refuse the quest. I think Iron Bull says, "Let me know if you change your mind," (or something similar) and the quest remains in your log. This applies to his recruitment as well. If you don't want to bother with the recruitment quest and you just run by Krem in Haven, he will appear in Skyhold and clutter your map with an annoying ! until you take the quest.
 
 

...which begs the question, if you recruit Bull but refuse his mission, what would happen?

I know this was answered already, but I want to elaborate. The only way for Bull to become Tal-Vashoth is by doing this quest and saving the Chargers. All other scenarios -- non recruitment, not completing the quest -- have him stay loyal to the Qun. Of course, if you don't recruit him in the first place then he isn't around in Trespasser to betray you.

[SweetTeaholic]

Depends on the Inquisitor I'm playing, though most save the Chargers.

 

My canon Inquisitor is a Tal Vashoth Mage who hates the Qun with all her being even though she's willing to give the alliance a chance being the Inquisition could use all the help they can get but, in the end she chose the Chargers being she sees them just as her men as Bull does (Team Mom!) and she rather put her trust in a tiny merc gang that she knows will remain loyal suppose to a shaky alliance with a group she dislikes. 

 

My elf archer (which is part of my 2nd canon) saved Bull's men due to family is a huge deal to him growing up in a Dalish clan. He sees the Inquisition as his clan as well and no way is he going to let his clan members die. That and him and Bull are bros.

 

And the rest of them also do the same for other personal reasons that I won't get into here being I have no time to go into details.

 

I plan to make a Human warrior in the future that will sacrifice the Chargers being to her, an powerful alliance is more important than saving a merc gang that know the cost. 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend' as she sees it.

[Medhia_Nox]

Oh yeah, the "bad intel" argument. Almost forgot. The Qunari caught-on to SolASS's activities. The Inquisition OTOH was closer to him and did not have so much as a clue about it, never mind piecing the puzzle together. So the Qunari's "bad" intel is an upgrade over whatever the Inquisition has.

 

Also, the Chargers are not an "elite unit." The Inquisitor + companions is an elite unit; elite units do not lose to a handful of Venatori.

 

So what you're saying is that the intel wasn't bad... the Qunari knew full well there were a lot of Tevinter... deceived you, and made you fit the bill with your men likely so they can get Iron Bull back into subservience.

 

You want to serve the Qun, you go ahead. 

 

As for MY Inquisitor... I didn't trust him (Solas) from the first conversation in Haven - that the game forces my organization to be incompetent in rooting out his minions is not something I bother considering as it has nothing to do with my Inquisitor. 

 

And the Inquisitor and his companions aren't an elite team... they're a player power fantasy with plot armor. 

 

Anyone surprised at the Qunari "betrayal" just hasn't been paying any attention.

[Aimi]

As for MY Inquisitor... I didn't trust him (Solas) from the first conversation in Haven - that the game forces my organization to be incompetent in rooting out his minions is not something I bother considering as it has nothing to do with my Inquisitor. 
 
And the Inquisitor and his companions aren't an elite team... they're a player power fantasy with plot armor.

Uh, is the Inquisition a power fantasy or incompetent? You can't have it both ways.

[nightscrawl]

As for MY Inquisitor... I didn't trust him (Solas) from the first conversation in Haven...

I know this is about Demands of the Qun quest, but why do you distrust Solas immediately? He seems pretty decent to me o_O.

And no, I don't play an elf or romance him. I'm not that big a fan, but I just don't see where your reaction to him comes from in an RP sense.

[straykat]

I didn't even look at it as recruiting Iron Bull. I just wanted mercenaries to join my army.

 

That doesn't work for me either. The game pulls a whole army and crowd of worshippers out of it's ass within the first hour. And after that, he's just desperate enough to tell me he'll be my "bodyguard". Wtf. The only charming thing about him is he gives up the nonsense and says he's a spy. But that closes any chances of recruiting him for me too.

 

It doesn't help that if I do recruit him, he just starts banging the Chantry sisters. The whole choice to have him around is just to be jokey and irreverent and show how much your character simply doesn't care about anything with the story premise. You're saying "I want to take a left here and go this completely opposite direction." No thanks.

[Xilizhra]

That doesn't work for me either. The game pulls a whole army and crowd of worshippers out of it's ass within the first hour. And after that, he's just desperate enough to tell me he'll be my "bodyguard". Wtf. The only charming thing about him is gives up the nonsense and says he's a spy. But that closes any chances of recruiting him for me too.

 

It doesn't help that if I do recruit him, he just starts banging the Chantry sisters. The whole choice to have him around is just to be jokey and irreverent and show how much your character simply doesn't care about anything with the story premise. You're saying "I want to take a left here and go this completely opposite direction." No thanks.

Forgive me, but how is his banging (lay) sisters somehow the Herald not caring about the premise, exactly?

[straykat]

Forgive me, but how is his banging (lay) sisters somehow the Herald not caring about the premise, exactly?

 

Turning the game from drama into a comedy. I'm supposed to care about thousands of Chantry people dying, the whole religion's loss and newfound hope in my character. I'd like to approach the story with just a little more seriousness. Just a little. I don't need to get kicked out of the mood. Not that quickly at least.

 

Hell, not even Isabela was this stupid. If anything, it was charming. And not just Patrick Weekes' attempt to get noticed and do things simply for shits and giggles.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

While true, this is all in the future. The Inquisitor can't know about this when making the decision.

 

The "bad intel" argument does not fly, regardless. Gatt explained at the very beginning why the Qunari did not request more people. It had nothing to do with their read on the Venatori. They did not want to tip off the Venatori and have them flee. It's sound reasoning: better to risk some soldiers here and hope for the best than risk civilian lives (more of them) hoping the Venatori don't do Venatori things.

 

Now, the conspiracy-theory exists that the Qunari knew full well that it was a suicide-run and that the whole thing was designed to test Bull's loyalty and/or rip away the influence of his non-Qunari friends. I actually think that is a very plausible theory. However, there is no evidence to prove that either way. So in my mind, I shelf that idea. If a later development supports or debunks that theory, great, but for now it is not reliable enough to act on.

 

Except there is one thing that debunks it: the following cutscene. The Chargers faced an enemy that did not outnumber them (it was 6 v. 6) and failed spectacularly. They literally did not kill a single one. If they had just done their job, we would not be here (so there's a way to RP the quest, OP: imagine that your Inquisitor thinks the Chargers are competent).

 

Which leads me to my next point: do you think Qunari soldiers would have done worse? I bet they would have at least killed more than 0 if they did not outright succeed. So, call me crazy, but when faced with which group of soldiers you need to save, I think you should opt for the group that is the strongest. Then again, the argument can be made that the Qunari will pack up and leave whereas the Chargers can serve longer, but having to step in and save the Chargers from a small enemy does not inspire much confidence in them serving you that long, either.

 

Lastly, let's grant the theory that the whole thing was a test of Bull's allegiance to the Qun, by the Qun. I think it's better for Bull if he leaves the Qun, certainly. However, I think matters of religion need to be decided by one's own self, not someone else. Otherwise, what good is the decision? Religion revolves around personal belief. It's kind of funny how SolASS rails on Bull for staying with the Qun, saying he's incapable of making decisions for himself, when leaving the Qun was not actually his decision, either. It goes to show how lame of a character Bull is.

 

But "bad intel" is just a convenient excuse by those who were (1) not paying attention, and (2) not inclined to make the alliance anyway.

 

 

So what you're saying is that the intel wasn't bad... the Qunari knew full well there were a lot of Tevinter... deceived you, and made you fit the bill with your men likely so they can get Iron Bull back into subservience.

 

You want to serve the Qun, you go ahead.

 

I'm not serving the Qun. I don't recruit Bull. I like to play things close to the chest, however minor Bull claims the details that he reports will be (not like spies have secret-codes or anything to slip out more information than outsiders can detect). The Qunari got nothing from me.

 

Sadly, Leliana and Cassandra dropped ball big-time on guarding our secrets. I'm sure Vivienne won't make the same mistakes, though. It's hers now!

[BSpud]

The whole choice to have him around is just to be jokey and irreverent and show how much your character simply doesn't care about anything with the story premise. You're saying "I want to take a left here and go this completely opposite direction." No thanks.

 

Lol, what?

 

 

The "bad intel" argument does not fly, regardless.

 

But "bad intel" is just a convenient excuse by those who were (1) not paying attention, and (2) not inclined to make the alliance anyway.

 

LOL. Okay, chief.