254 réponses à ce sujet

[Andromelek]

I still believe would have been better the concept of the veteran Warden, babysitting an ungrateful and treacherous man is not really my strength.

Although, I do admit Alistair does have his flaws, he's much better then let's say Morrigan... Who abandons you every single time even though you do the DA with her.

Huh? You mean DR, right? after the main campaign the only companions that remain with you are Dog and Oghren... so, not truth at all (WH is still part of DAO by the way), furthermore they are kind of opposites, Morrigan seems often mean and ruthless, yet she is willing to sacrifice herself for her son and is the only LI that has any idea of where the heck is the Warden, while Alistair seems as a charming person at first but he's actually a stupid version of Heisenberg.

[sniper_arrow]

I still believe would have been better the concept of the veteran Warden babysitting an ungrateful and treacherous man is not really my strength.


Huh? You mean DR, right? after the main campaign the only companions that remain with you are Dog and Oghren... so, not truth at all (WH is still part of DAO by the way), furthermore they are kind of opposites, Morrigan seems often mean and ruthless, yet she is willing to sacrifice herself for her son and is the only LI that has any idea of where the heck is the Warden, while Alistair seems as a charming person at first but he's actually a stupid version of Heisenberg.

 

Why would you compare Alistair to Heisenberg, of all people? Heisenberg, at least, was a very interesting character.

[Andromelek]

Why would you compare Alistair to Heisenberg, of all people? Heisenberg, at least, was a very interesting character.

That's why I said stupid version , Heisenberg was interesting due his wit (and a complex background), they look like nice dudes at first but both complain a lot and play to be the victims even when they're not, both are selfish, stubborn, blame others for what's wrong ,justify their crimes by making up lies, and turn against those who helped them with ease.... basically screwing anyone to be ever aligned with them.

[ModernAcademic]

So pretty much you avoided my question? I asked you if you wanted a Preston Gravey and you didn't respond; because you'd likely get a Preston Gravey out of Alistair if he led the group; I think it's a mercy that we didn't get a Preston Gravey out of Alistair, me thinks.  Although, I do admit Alistair does have his flaws, he's much better then let's say Morrigan... Who abandons you every single time even though you do the DA with her.

 

I don't even know what Preston Gravey is. Maybe you're right, I wouldn't know.

 

You said my opinion was nonsensical, so I adressed your comment. And in doing so, I answered more than your question. I showed you my whole line of thinking concerning Alistair, based on my conclusions after replaying Origins many times and what I would prefer his character did. Not leading the group, as you suggested. Something different. 

 

(In truth, there wasn't really any point answering if I preferred Alistair issued orders rather than the PC because the whole premise of playing an RPG is to be the leader and make the decisions. So it's pretty obvious people would complain if you were reduced to a mere companion.)

 

 

 

About Alistair:

 

Make no mistake, I think he's a delightful companion in terms of being friendly and accesible. But he's unreliable when things get dire. It's not entirely his fault. He's supposed to be young and immature, and his military background wasn't really incorporated into his personality - he's too casual and debonnaire for a "soldier". (Either way, such small incoherences are normal in any game and don't compromise the player's experience that much.) 

 

The very fact that Alistair goes through an important change of personality and must be hardened in order to survive the machinations of the nobles in the Landsmeet (should he become king) is already enough evidence that he lacks inner strength and the ability to make decisions by himself. So the game pretty much explicitly tells the player Alistair has a weak personality. And that it's up to the Warden to either help him become more self-assured or just let him keep avoiding big responsibilities. 

 

Coincidently, should you choose the second option, he gets his heart's wish and remains a Warden...and spends the rest of his life complaining about it.

 

[A]: What have you done lately for us, Alistair? New times, new problems.

 

[I]: How's it to be a Warden?

[A]: Oh, it's wonderful. You get fresh peaches delivered every morning, first choice of local village girls, and bunnies, too! 

 

The sarcasm in his lines is so poisonous you can feel the floor melting as it drips from his mouth.

[Madrict]

DAO = Zevran

DA2 = Anders (Fenris Second)

DAI = Dorian (Iron Bull Second)

[GoldenGail3]

I still believe would have been better the concept of the veteran Warden, babysitting an ungrateful and treacherous man is not really my strength.
Huh? You mean DR, right? after the main campaign the only companions that remain with you are Dog and Oghren... so, not truth at all (WH is still part of DAO by the way), furthermore they are kind of opposites, Morrigan seems often mean and ruthless, yet she is willing to sacrifice herself for her son and is the only LI that has any idea of where the heck is the Warden, while Alistair seems as a charming person at first but he's actually a stupid version of Heisenberg.

So pretyy much, your saying you betraying Alistair first off is treacherous?

[GoldenGail3]

I don't even know what Preston Gravey is. Maybe you're right, I wouldn't know.
 
You said my opinion was nonsensical, so I adressed your comment. And in doing so, I answered more than your question. I showed you my whole line of thinking concerning Alistair, based on my conclusions after replaying Origins many times and what I would prefer his character did. Not leading the group, as you suggested. Something different. 
 
(In truth, there wasn't really any point answering if I preferred Alistair issued orders rather than the PC because the whole premise of playing an RPG is to be the leader and make the decisions. So it's pretty obvious people would complain if you were reduced to a mere companion.)
 
 
 
About Alistair:
 
Make no mistake, I think he's a delightful companion in terms of being friendly and accesible. But he's unreliable when things get dire. It's not entirely his fault. He's supposed to be young and immature, and his military background wasn't really incorporated into his personality - he's too casual and debonnaire for a "soldier". (Either way, such small incoherences are normal in any game and don't compromise the player's experience that much.) 
 
The very fact that Alistair goes through an important change of personality and must be hardened in order to survive the machinations of the nobles in the Landsmeet (should he become king) is already enough evidence that he lacks inner strength and the ability to make decisions by himself. So the game pretty much explicitly tells the player Alistair has a weak personality. And that it's up to the Warden to either help him become more self-assured or just let him keep avoiding big responsibilities. 
 
Coincidently, should you choose the second option, he gets his heart's wish and remains a Warden...and spends the rest of his life complaining about it.
 
[A]: What have you done lately for us, Alistair? New times, new problems.
 
: How's it to be a Warden?
[i][A]: Oh, it's wonderful. You get fresh peaches delivered every morning, first choice of local village girls, and bunnies, too! 
 
The sarcasm in his lines is so poisonous you can feel the floor melting as it drips from his mouth.

Preston Garvey is a annoying character that gives you reptive and boring quests to save villages.

[sniper_arrow]

Coincidently, should you choose the second option, he gets his heart's wish and remains a Warden...and spends the rest of his life complaining about it.

 

[A]: What have you done lately for us, Alistair? New times, new problems.

 

[I]: How's it to be a Warden?

[A]: Oh, it's wonderful. You get fresh peaches delivered every morning, first choice of local village girls, and bunnies, too! 

 

The sarcasm in his lines is so poisonous you can feel the floor melting as it drips from his mouth.

 

Funny, when I heard those lines, I thought that Alistair finally found out about the Wardens without wearing his rose-tinted glasses back in DAO.

[Andromelek]

So pretyy much, your saying you betraying Alistair first off is treacherous?

What? There is no way to betray that moron, he's the one that betrays everyone that tended a hand to him.

[Andraste_Reborn]

What? There is no way to betray that moron, he's the one that betrays everyone that tended a hand to him.

 

I would argue that letting Anora remove your companions head probably counts as a betrayal. Alistair also feels betrayed if you let Loghain into the Wardens. (I mean, you can argue about whether he's right to feel that way or not, but regardless of what the PC thinks Alistair regards Loghain as responsible for the deaths of his mentor and comrades, not to mention his half-brother. Loghain also indisputably tried to have Arl Eamon, Alistair and the protagonist assassinated.)

[Andromelek]

I would argue that letting Anora remove your companions head probably counts as a betrayal. Alistair also feels betrayed if you let Loghain into the Wardens. (I mean, you can argue about whether he's right to feel that way or not, but regardless of what the PC thinks Alistair regards Loghain as responsible for the deaths of his mentor and comrades, not to mention his half-brother. Loghain also indisputably tried to have Arl Eamon, Alistair and the protagonist assassinated.)

Not at all, since the brat said the magic words "I'm leaving" prior to Anora suggesting his execution, at that very moment he is branded as a traitor to the order and Grey Wardens can kill him for it, we saw Duncan killing Ser Jory for trying to leave and Alistair was ok with that, pretty sure is the same concept.

As for the feelings of the brat, neither there I betrayed anything as I didn't give my word of killing Loghain, whatever happens on his twisted mind is pretty much his business.

[GoldenGail3]

1. Yes, he was stupid, for leaving willy nilly like that, but he did it purely out of emotion and he didn't want to see the man that killed his family still alive, so he left... like a idiotic little boy he was back then...

 

2. So you did betray him first and formost and yet you say he betrays you. That's total crap.  

[Shechinah]

 

1. Yes, he was stupid, for leaving willy nilly like that, but he did it purely out of emotion and he didn't want to see the man that killed his family still alive, so he left... like a idiotic little boy he was back then...

 

2. So you did betray him first and formost and yet you say he betrays you. That's total crap.  

 

 

It can be seen as a valid betrayal for both: Alistair feels betrayed by the Warden who makes the choice regardless of why the Warden made the choice while the Warden feels Alistair betrays the Grey Wardens including Duncan and the Warden themselves by leaving in the middle of a Blight. This can be especially as Alistair is discarding duty because of emotion and the Warden might be putting duty before their emotions while making the choice.

 

It should be noted that I do not think Alistair was informed by Duncan about how it is necessary for a Warden to be in proximity of the Archdemon for it to be defeated permanently. If he does know, however, it is foolish and even more irresponsible of him to leave as he decreases the odds of successfully stopping the Blight.  

[Andromelek]

1. Yes, he was stupid, for leaving willy nilly like that, but he did it purely out of emotion and he didn't want to see the man that killed his family still alive, so he left... like a idiotic little boy he was back then...

 
2. So you did betray him first and formost and yet you say he betrays you. That's total crap.

Again, the "I'm leaving" came first, so he betrayed the order and you can't betray someone that has betrayed you, hell, you even agreed with a post of TKS in which he was saying that leaving the Wardens was in fact a betrayal but all my other arguments weren't, so you are contradicting yourself right now.

[GoldenGail3]

I'm so done with this conversation, not as a coward, but as someone who is just weary as can be at defending Alistair constanstly from the same people. Sorry about this, but it's tiring and I'm at school. I'll never agree with Adromlek, nor he with me. I actually never condracted myself either; Alistair is an idiot by leaving the warden, but he was young and stupid and yeah, I did never type the words betrayal did I? I called him that simply because he becomes a wandering hobo that's drunk as can be. And that's idiotic to me...

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

This is not the "Hate on Alistair" thread, guys. Take it somewhere else, please.

[Dabrikishaw]

It was gonna happen eventually. Most of the favored love interests are controversial characters. 

[Andromelek]

This is not the "Hate on Alistair" thread, guys. Take it somewhere else, please.

Actually, the only hate threads I've seen so far are for Fiona and Solas

[Qun00]

I don't even know what Preston Gravey is. Maybe you're right, I wouldn't know.

You said my opinion was nonsensical, so I adressed your comment. And in doing so, I answered more than your question. I showed you my whole line of thinking concerning Alistair, based on my conclusions after replaying Origins many times and what I would prefer his character did. Not leading the group, as you suggested. Something different.

(In truth, there wasn't really any point answering if I preferred Alistair issued orders rather than the PC because the whole premise of playing an RPG is to be the leader and make the decisions. So it's pretty obvious people would complain if you were reduced to a mere companion.)



About Alistair:

Make no mistake, I think he's a delightful companion in terms of being friendly and accesible. But he's unreliable when things get dire. It's not entirely his fault. He's supposed to be young and immature, and his military background wasn't really incorporated into his personality - he's too casual and debonnaire for a "soldier". (Either way, such small incoherences are normal in any game and don't compromise the player's experience that much.)

The very fact that Alistair goes through an important change of personality and must be hardened in order to survive the machinations of the nobles in the Landsmeet (should he become king) is already enough evidence that he lacks inner strength and the ability to make decisions by himself. So the game pretty much explicitly tells the player Alistair has a weak personality. And that it's up to the Warden to either help him become more self-assured or just let him keep avoiding big responsibilities.

Coincidently, should you choose the second option, he gets his heart's wish and remains a Warden...and spends the rest of his life complaining about it.

[A]: What have you done lately for us, Alistair? New times, new problems.

: How's it to be a Warden?
[i][A]: Oh, it's wonderful. You get fresh peaches delivered every morning, first choice of local village girls, and bunnies, too!

The sarcasm in his lines is so poisonous you can feel the floor melting as it drips from his mouth.

That has less to do with Alistair *personally* not liking it and more with what a Grey Warden's life is in a general sense.

As commited as they are to the cause, nobody in the Order would disagree with the meaning behind his sarcasm. It definitely is a burden, but it is the burden he wants.

[sniper_arrow]

Actually, the only hate threads I've seen so far are for Fiona and Solas

 

Don't forget Anders.

[Andromelek]

Don't forget Anders.

Is just me or people only makes hate threads for mages? There are regular people that can be as hateful as them or more.

[Shechinah]

Is just me or people only makes hate threads for mages? There are regular people that can be as hateful as them or more.

There's been threads for other characters as well and said characters are mentioned in threads often enough; Loghain and Liara especially.

The reason why the reoccuring ones tend to focus on Morrigan, Anders and Solas is because they are controversial companions because of the respective twists they bring. Morrigan less so, I think, because her game is old and her twist was less controversial. She tended, however, to advocate plenty of morally questionable and downright abhorrent acts but that was primarily in quests and so I think people tended to forget about them especially with time.

That they are all mages is why people sometimes jokingly advise people not to romance the mage and why I'm speculating that if Bioware do have a companion be responsible for a twist, it'll be a warrior or rogue companion.

[Qun00]

Is just me or people only makes hate threads for mages? There are regular people that can be as hateful as them or more.

And those regular people are criticised too. Should mages get a pass because they're oppressed?

[Andromelek]

And those regular people are criticised too. Should mages get a pass because they're oppressed?

No, I'm not saying that, I understand those mages are controversial, but I'm pointing out that characters like Branka, Howe, that Carta Dwarven from DA2, Lucius, Alistair, Sebastian, Sten, (If the problem with Morrigan were mean comments, Shale also dropped many of them), etc. do not have entire hate threads.

[Shechinah]

No, I'm not saying that, I understand those mages are controversial, but I'm pointing out that characters like Branka, Howe, that Carta Dwarven from DA2, Lucius, Alistair, Sebastian, Sten, (If the problem with Morrigan were mean comments, Shale also dropped many of them), etc. do not have entire hate threads.

 

Because most of them are hard to make an entire thread about; Rendon Howe and the Carta dwarves especially not as they are not meant to be liked and the latter are mooks. Plot-relevant mooks but mooks nonetheless. Lucius is mentioned time to time but he is a book character who is dead by the time of the Inquisition, I believe, and so he is less likely to have a thread devoted to him especially since he is a book character.  

 

Sebastian, Alistair and Sten have their fair share of people who dislike or downright hates them and they are frequently mentioned in threads where dislike of characters are discussed. They occasionally have their own thread.

 

In regards to Morrigan; I said acts, not words or comments. An example of such an act she advocates is how Morrigan encourages and approves of sacrificing the city elves captured by slavers for a blood ritual performed by the leader of said slavers. I believe she disapproves even if the Warden is a city elf.