345 réponses à ce sujet

[Master Warder Z_]

So by "decisive" you mean something more like "embarrassing"? Yeah, it would have been embarrassing; probably derailed quite a few careers.

Midway's a silly analogy, since japanese losses there were a far larger proportion of their available carrier strength.

 

Recall this is pre Human admission to the Citadel, so that means the Farixen treaty didn't reflect human naval might yet.

 

Short of the Batarians or Volus, to my knowledge this relevant because Humanity is the only species to construct Dreadnoughts anyway that isn't on the council. So I suspect that this was a lot more crippling back then, given it didn't reflect the modern ME power structure. There were probably at least a dozen less Dreadnoughts in existence in the Turian armada at least.

 

So no, I mean decisive.

[katamuro]

Recall this is pre Human admission to the Citadel, so that means the Farixen treaty didn't reflect human naval might yet.

 

Short of the Batarians or Volus, to my knowledge this relevant because Humanity is the only species to construct Dreadnoughts anyway that isn't on the council. So I suspect that this was a lot more crippling back then, given it didn't reflect the modern ME power structure. There were probably at least a dozen less Dreadnoughts in existence in the Turian armada at least.

 

So no, I mean decisive.

 

Dreadnoughts are not the main fighting strength, they are more like strategic weapons in the ME universe. The only time when it matters how many of them you have is when you are fighting other Dreadnoughts. Even then the Alliance kinda circumvented it using carriers. For example the quarian fleet was considered the biggest in the galaxy but due to the fact that their ships were their homes their fighting strength was probably not as high as turian, asari or human. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Dreadnoughts are not the main fighting strength, they are more like strategic weapons in the ME universe. The only time when it matters how many of them you have is when you are fighting other Dreadnoughts. Even then the Alliance kinda circumvented it using carriers. For example the quarian fleet was considered the biggest in the galaxy but due to the fact that their ships were their homes their fighting strength was probably not as high as turian, asari or human. 

 

Their the battleships of their era, I grasped that the minute I read the codex on them. They are critical, to be protected unless if not in use, because there aren't very many of them. Just like battleships, and the Second Fleet I assume had Dreadnoughts, something that the Turian occupation force likely found out the hard way.

[Dean_the_Young]

Yup, I am no aviation expert but I suspect that the pilots of those craft, should they survive were never allowed in the cockpit of anything that cost vaguely that much again.

 

Or at least they should be, if not outright discharged.

 

Could you broadcast your ignorance any louder?

 

It might- just might- be worth it for you to actually look into the subject before you make such a judgement. Which you could have done by just bothering to google the subject. Just like could spare yourself the irony of not knowing of the five, heh, 'decisive' defeats in the last two decades. Or a comical definition of 'decisive' wholy unrelated to what the military would consider such.

 

 

Go ahead. Look them up. They're all open source. No expertise required past not being lazy.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The last game they released that was a commercial hit and didn't trigger significant criticism from fans was Mass Effect 2...

A game I hated so much I abandoned the franchise.

At least ME3 was marginally better.

[Master Warder Z_]

Could you broadcast your ignorance any louder?

 

.-.

 

You blaming pilots for making stupid mistakes that cost their government and thus their military millions and millions of dollars? I'd not cite that as ignorance. Now its different say when you aren't killed accidentally in a mock up dog fight or in actual combat, there fault can be blamed on other factors then-Pilot Error.

 

But no, you cost the Air Force upwards of thirty million dollars to repair that fancy little plane again and have it set on the shelf for another half decade during said repair, I'd see you ass discharged. Pilots are rare and expensive investments, but damn if people don't attach too much importance to that job.

[katamuro]

Could you broadcast your ignorance any louder?

 

It might- just might- be worth it for you to actually look into the subject before you make such a judgement. Which you could have done by just bothering to google the subject. Just like could spare yourself the irony of not knowing of the five, heh, 'decisive' defeats in the last two decades. Or a comical definition of 'decisive' wholy unrelated to what the military would consider such.

 

 

Go ahead. Look them up. They're all open source. No expertise required past not being lazy.

 

Yeah a couple of planes falling out of the sky is not really a defeat. And far from anything decisive. US air force has 1600 fighter planes, losing one is not that big of a deal. 

Also there is a reason turians are calling it Relay 314 incident. Because to them even with the loss of life and ships that happened it was just an incident. Nothing major.

[katamuro]

.-.

 

You blaming pilots for making stupid mistakes that cost their government and thus their military millions and millions of dollars? I'd not cite that as ignorance. Now its different say when you aren't killed accidentally in a mock up dog fight or in actual combat, there fault can be blamed on other factors then-Pilot Error.

 

But no, you cost the Air Force upwards of thirty million dollars to repair that fancy little plane again and have it set on the shelf for another half decade during said repair, I'd see you ass discharged. Pilots are rare and expensive investments, but damn if people don't attach too much importance to that job.

 

Not all incidents are pilot error. The reason why such importance is assigned to the job is because when **** hits the fan you are going to need every pilot. And real life is not like Independence Day, you can't just take any pilot and sit him or her down into a plane and let them fly combat missions after a brief tutorial. There is a reason why officers(and most pilots are) are given more leeway than simple soldiers.

Also lets not argue about this anymore. I don't want mods to come and shut down the thread. Lets go back to talking Mass Effect.

[Iakus]

Shadowrun is its own genre. Cyberpunk with magic. I've got ~50 SR novels here that predate urban fantasy stories like The Dresden Files.

Urban fantasy has gotten popular in the last decade or so.  But it's been around since the mid to late '80's

 

Shadowrun is definitely a unique spin on it though

[SnakeCode]

A game I hated so much I abandoned the franchise.

At least ME3 was marginally better.

 

If you played ME3 then you didn't abandon the franchise.

[Master Warder Z_]

Yeah a couple of planes falling out of the sky is not really a defeat. And far from anything decisive. US air force has 1600 fighter planes, losing one is not that big of a deal. 

Also there is a reason turians are calling it Relay 314 incident. Because to them even with the loss of life and ships that happened it was just an incident. Nothing major.

 

You average crew for a Cruiser in Mass Effect is three hundred if you go by the human standard, presumably this differs between species to a degree but I doubt that the Turians differ widely here then what their warships can run on. The only issue here is we have never been given a dedicated number for needed crew on a dreadnought, presumably though given its much wider profile it requires several times what a Cruiser does to operate.

 

So I doubt it would be a stretch to say the Turians lost a thousand plus in that short little exchange over Shanxi. Which is nothing compared to some of our own battles in history, but I'd never say its a 'minor' loss given that it was a entire task force lost. I wish the comics actually elaborated more on the orbital battle then they did here because a lot of the background is the naval battle over Shanxi but apart from a few panels you never see it, you see the Dreadnought sink and that's it.

 

But you know, that wasn't the purpose of Evolution.

[Dean_the_Young]

.-.

 

You blaming pilots for making stupid mistakes that cost their government and thus their military millions and millions of dollars? I'd not cite that as ignorance. Now its different say when you aren't killed accidentally in a mock up dog fight or in actual combat, there fault can be blamed on other factors then-Pilot Error.

 

The fact that you're ignorant of the causes of the crashes, on top of not even knowing there were crashes when you raised such as 'decisive', is your ignorance.

It's laughable to take your position seriously when you clearly don't know even know what you're talking about.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

I think a majority of old fans are still curious enough to try this..

 

OTOH, I remember the Transformers cartoon sucked after Optimus and co died...and they tried to replace him with "Hot Rod". Hot Rod sucked... and "Ryder" might be the same. They basically destroyed the whole Transformers universe and no one got over it. So it finally came back. And eventually came back bigger than ever too.

 

I'm going into ME:A like some Trekkers did with Star Trek: The Next Generation with cautious optimism. Can Ryder become the ME:A version of Captain Picard while Shepard will be the ME version of Captain Kirk, or like Commanders Sinclar, Sheridan, and Lochley on Babylon 5? That might be a better analogy since Mass Effect 1-3 are a lot closer to Babylon 5 than it is to any of the various versions of Star Trek.

 

As a lifelong die hard Transformers fan I think you're off here. While Optimus Prime's death did hurt the series, and Rodimus Prime was never quite as popular as Optimus Prime was or is (he does seem to have picked up a lot fans over the years though) the simple reason season 3 of the original series, which IMHO had some best scripts and stories of the original series, it was simply Hasbro was constantly making radical changes the franchise to keep it going with weird gimmicks like the Headmasters, Targetmasters, Powermasters, Micromasters, Actionmasters, The Pretenders, The City Bots, The Sixchangers, etc and the franchise at that time only had the cartoon show and one ongoing Marvel comic book to support the fiction and the cartoon show just really couldn't keep up, I mean the final 3 episodes had to introduce the first wave of Headmasters and Targetmasters which was something close to 40 new characters in 3 episodes while also trying to give the recently revived Optimus Prime a major part and a lot the better written episodes were made by an awful sloppy cheap animation studio also didn't help. While the comic bent over backwards trying to cram as many of the new characters and concepts that Hasbro threw at them has they could and it's nothing short of a miracle that any of the Marvel Transformers comics are readable today and that original cartoon show is even watchable. Also many of the first wave fans who were 6-9 it could in 1984 grew up and were becoming pre-teen and teenagers and finding new interests and hobbies and other new franchises like TMNT, Batman, and Power Rangers were coming in and getting the younger fans that they needed at the time.  

[vbibbi]

I wonder if preorder numbers will be decreased. I'm sure that the game will sell well, but if fans are still salty from ME3, they might wait to buy until reviews come out, or at least try to send a message to Bioware by not giving them their unconditional support via preorder.

[Dean_the_Young]

Yeah a couple of planes falling out of the sky is not really a defeat. And far from anything decisive. US air force has 1600 fighter planes, losing one is not that big of a deal. 

Also there is a reason turians are calling it Relay 314 incident. Because to them even with the loss of life and ships that happened it was just an incident. Nothing major.

 

Camp Bastion had a far bigger impact than every incident with F-22's combined, 6% of the entire USMC air fleet, and it was compensated for in less than two days.

 

'More losses than a usual day' is not, and never has been, 'decisive.'

[vbibbi]

A game I hated so much I abandoned the franchise.

At least ME3 was marginally better.

 

If you played ME3 then you didn't abandon the franchise.

 

I was going to say...

[Master Warder Z_]

The fact that you're ignorant of the causes of the crashes

 

So If I actually did look into this, I wouldn't find one case of someone forgetting to lift flaps or to raise the landing gear once you reach the needed to speed to become airborne and then hydroplaning all over  the runway?

 

.-. I mean you are correct I haven't bothered to look into it, but that isn't to say I don't know about how dumb pilots can be. After all pilot error seems to be a pretty common thing in both civil and military sectors, I know several good friends who died in a helicopter crash from such a thing after all. You make one stupid mistake that ruins the aircraft and if you are really unlucky kills people other then yourself.

 

You being derisive doesn't really change much, you can hype up my 'lack' of knowledge but I bet if I did look into this, I'd find more then enough evidence to support my case. So yeah friend, you can stop beating a dead horse, I admit it, I haven't looked into F-22 crashes specifically, I know a few crashed, but that's about it. If you like I can point you towards a solid hundred F-15 crashes, dozens of which were pilot error related.

[PlatonicWaffles]

If they market it properly, I see absolutely no reason why it wouldn't be a hit. The trilogy sold well and this is as good an entry point as any as it's a clean slate.

 

Whether it'll be great is another question though.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Urban fantasy has gotten popular in the last decade or so.  But it's been around since the mid to late '80's

 

Shadowrun is definitely a unique spin on it though

 

Shadowrun emerged from Cyberpunk (William Gibson mostly), also in the late '80s. Not all the fantasy in it is urban btw.

[Iakus]

Shadowrun emerged from Cyberpunk (William Gibson mostly), also in the late '80s. Not all the fantasy in it is urban btw.

Yes I did say it had elements of both cyberpunk and urban fantasy.

[Master Warder Z_]

Yes I did say it had elements of both cyberpunk and urban fantasy.

 

I never did grasp the difference between urban fantasy and contemporary fantasy, both are usually set in the modern age and have spiritual and or magical presences felt. I see it as a needless classification, but that could be me.

[straykat]

Shadowrun is unique.. it has all the trappings of fantasy.. magic, elves, orcs, etc..

 

They just happen to like computers and prosthetics too.

[Iakus]

I never did grasp the difference between urban fantasy and contemporary fantasy, both are usually set in the modern age and have spiritual and or magical presences felt. I see it as a needless classification, but that could be me.

They are related, but urban fantasy is not limited to being set in the present day.  You can have urban fantasy in Victorian times, the future, or whenever.  Provided it's set in a city.

 

Hmm, I wonder if that makes the Thieves' World series urban fantasy?  That's set primarily in the city of Sanctuary.  And it's been around since the 1970s...

[Master Warder Z_]

They are related, as both but urban fantasy is not limited to being set in the present day. 

 

I suppose not, but then wouldn't it then fall into the realm or classical or historical fantasy?

 

.-. Like I said...it makes no sense to me, but probably its just me.

[AlanC9]

Recall this is pre Human admission to the Citadel, so that means the Farixen treaty didn't reflect human naval might yet.

Short of the Batarians or Volus, to my knowledge this relevant because Humanity is the only species to construct Dreadnoughts anyway that isn't on the council. So I suspect that this was a lot more crippling back then, given it didn't reflect the modern ME power structure. There were probably at least a dozen less Dreadnoughts in existence in the Turian armada at least.

So no, I mean decisive.

What's the actual evidence for this fantasy of human power pre-treaty? It's not supported by anything in the Codex, or anyplace else that I've seen.

I'm still not clear on what you mean by "decisive" there. Turian political will to fight doesn't seem to have been reduced. They didn't lose more than a fraction of their strength. What was decided?

Would you call the battle of Little Bighorn a "decisive" victory? Isandlwana?