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[jpbreon]

I liked Corypheus right away in Legacy, both as a villain and as a way to reach back in time to answer significant lore points.

However, his overall plan in Inquisition was... strangely lacking.

 

1. Darkspawn

 

As a darkspawn himself, he had unbeknownst powers and abilities not seen anywhere else, even in his likely compatriot The Architect. Most significant is his apparently ability to dominate or otherwise enthrall those who carry the taint of the Blight, including Grey Wardens. Not even Archdemons could prevent Grey Wardens from striking. Furthermore, Corypheus even coerced otherwise indifferent Carta dwarves to consume darkspawn blood and seek out Hawke and his/her family.

In short, Corypheus' powers of persuasion and domination are far beyond even what a blood mage could fathom.

So why did Corypheus refuse to use the Darkspawn? Even the limited numbers of the post-Blight could sow plague, fear, and further chaos. Coupled with the corruption of the Grey Wardens in Orlais and the apparent disappearance of The Warden in Fereldan, in addition to the general weakness of Fereldan and the civil war in Orlais, the darkspawn would be nearly unopposed. At a minimum, they could serve as shock troops.

 

2. The Imperium

 

Throughout conversations with Dorian, two things become apparent; many magisters of the Imperium would have willingly gone in support of reviving the ancient Imperium and subjugating the south. Had Corypheus gone to Minrathous and demonstrated what he is and where he came from - the records obviously exist, as the Inquisition finds them - it would have been very likely that many, if not all, of the reigning mages would've supported him. Even if they feared him, it would have been better to be an ally than an enemy.

Instead, the Venatori. It makes sense to use a secretive cult in the beginning, when showing his true intentions would have likely united the nations of Thedas in opposition. After the Temple of Sacred Ashes, there was little point in subterfuge. While the Inquisition formed and tried to come to terms with the Breach, using the Venatori and the Lord Seeker to delay these efforts and deny these resources would have bought the time to bring in the Imperium's resources.

 

Again, Corypheus had great powers of persuasion. Even if the Magisterium was reluctant or unwilling, Corypheus could demonstrate how he was already rending the south and would be the key to ending the Qunari. His control of the darkspawn, his use of red lyrium, and his great command of magic and access to ancient artifacts and powers could be turned to the Qunari after the south falls. This threat is not conjecture; the Qunari took it so seriously as to help the Inquisition to a degree never done before.

3. Red Lyrium

Corpheus does use red lyrium, but not to the extent he could use it. Red Lyrium strongly resembles Tiberium of C & C. Why not weaponize it more than he did? Spreading or planting red lyrium in population centers would have had a disastrous effect on morale, cause mass panic, overwhelm governments and emergency response resources. Imagine red lyrium infecting Val Royeux's water supply and the ensuing panic. Arming and responding to an invasion from Tevinter or a darkspawn army would have been nigh impossible.

Some of this is due to game mechanics, of course. However, it seems odd that Coypheus doesn't use his extensive resources to their maximum, whereas the Inquisition uses every possible advantage available. 

[LostInReverie19]

It's always disappointed me how hard they hit Corypheus with the stupid stick when they made him the main villain of Inquisition. He's great in Legacy, but they made him into a moron in Inquisition. 

[Ghost Gal]

If they made him too intelligent or competent, the Inquisition could not have defeated him as easily as they did.

[jpbreon]

It's always disappointed me how hard they hit Corypheus with the stupid stick when they made him the main villain of Inquisition. He's great in Legacy, but they made him into a moron in Inquisition. 

 

Agreed. In Legacy, even as confused and disoriented as he was, he was formidable. Even his subconscious was powerful enough to draw darkspawn, enthrall magic resistant dwarves, and direct them to an ultimate goal. This is a being of immeasurable power.

Not to mention he was a mage and leader powerful enough to be in charge of the ritual in which they breach the Black City. We can safely infer he was a brilliant tactician and shrewd politician in that time, which suggests he would know how to move against rivals in multiple ways. The idea that he would overlook such resources seems far fetched.  

[Ashagar]

1. is easily explained by the fact Corpheus wants to rule over in a orderly thadas empire who's people don't have to live in fear of war, where your origins won't ensure your potential is ignored just because you started out as a slave and that has a god that answers the prayers of the people. Darkspawn aren't exactly conductive to those goal given they poison animals, people and the very land they walk on and are highly destructive.

 

2. Its more likely him showing up and doing what you stated would have more likely only kicked off a Tevinter Civil War as while many Magisters might support him many likely would oppose him for a variety of reasons and the Archon and the Tevinter Chantry with its divine would most certainly oppose Corypheus if he openly showed himself out of either religious reasons, as a threat to their power or both. Also while Corypheus receives support from the magisters, the Inqusition also manages to draw  some support from Tevinter as well both at the top and among the magisters for various reasons in spite of being viewed with mistrust as a southern chantry organization.

[Iakus]

I liked Corypheus right away in Legacy, both as a villain and as a way to reach back in time to answer significant lore points.

However, his overall plan in Inquisition was... strangely lacking.

 

1. Darkspawn

 

As a darkspawn himself, he had unbeknownst powers and abilities not seen anywhere else, even in his likely compatriot The Architect. Most significant is his apparently ability to dominate or otherwise enthrall those who carry the taint of the Blight, including Grey Wardens. Not even Archdemons could prevent Grey Wardens from striking. Furthermore, Corypheus even coerced otherwise indifferent Carta dwarves to consume darkspawn blood and seek out Hawke and his/her family.

In short, Corypheus' powers of persuasion and domination are far beyond even what a blood mage could fathom.

So why did Corypheus refuse to use the Darkspawn? Even the limited numbers of the post-Blight could sow plague, fear, and further chaos. Coupled with the corruption of the Grey Wardens in Orlais and the apparent disappearance of The Warden in Fereldan, in addition to the general weakness of Fereldan and the civil war in Orlais, the darkspawn would be nearly unopposed. At a minimum, they could serve as shock troops.

 

There's a couple of thoughts on this.  The first is pride.  Corypheus didn't want to use darkspawn because that was too low-class for him.  He wanted human worshippers to do his bidding.

 

A second possibility is limits.  It's entirely possible that Corypheus' control over blighted beings  may be limited by range of number.  It may be he simply can't control a whole army of darkspawn at once.  Or perhaps he'd lose control if they went out more than a few miles away?  the only Grey Wardens we see enslaved to him are either in close proximity to him or bound to him via the blood magic ritual.  Even the carta dwarves in Legacy were fairly close to his prison.

 

 

 

2. The Imperium

Throughout conversations with Dorian, two things become apparent; many magisters of the Imperium would have willingly gone in support of reviving the ancient Imperium and subjugating the south. Had Corypheus gone to Minrathous and demonstrated what he is and where he came from - the records obviously exist, as the Inquisition finds them - it would have been very likely that many, if not all, of the reigning mages would've supported him. Even if they feared him, it would have been better to be an ally than an enemy.

Instead, the Venatori. It makes sense to use a secretive cult in the beginning, when showing his true intentions would have likely united the nations of Thedas in opposition. After the Temple of Sacred Ashes, there was little point in subterfuge. While the Inquisition formed and tried to come to terms with the Breach, using the Venatori and the Lord Seeker to delay these efforts and deny these resources would have bought the time to bring in the Imperium's resources.

Again, Corypheus had great powers of persuasion. Even if the Magisterium was reluctant or unwilling, Corypheus could demonstrate how he was already rending the south and would be the key to ending the Qunari. His control of the darkspawn, his use of red lyrium, and his great command of magic and access to ancient artifacts and powers could be turned to the Qunari after the south falls. This threat is not conjecture; the Qunari took it so seriously as to help the Inquisition to a degree never done before.

More likely the magisterium would soil their pants.  Tevinter has spent a millennium denying they had anything to do with the blackening of the Golden City, that they were not responsible for the Blights or the darkspawn.  If one of the original seven were to suddenly show up saying, "Yeah we totally did that blood magic ritual and created the darkspawn that periodically threatens the entire world.  But the Golden City was like that when we got there!  Honest!" It probably wouldn't be taken very well...

 

This is why, as Dorian pointed out, only the Venatori, Tevinter extremists would be willing to follow Corypheus.  But much of the rest of the Imperium would not interfere, but quietly cheer if they succeeded, while "The Elder One" stays in the background.  

 

 

 

3. Red Lyrium
Corpheus does use red lyrium, but not to the extent he could use it. Red Lyrium strongly resembles Tiberium of C & C. Why not weaponize it more than he did? Spreading or planting red lyrium in population centers would have had a disastrous effect on morale, cause mass panic, overwhelm governments and emergency response resources. Imagine red lyrium infecting Val Royeux's water supply and the ensuing panic. Arming and responding to an invasion from Tevinter or a darkspawn army would have been nigh impossible.
Some of this is due to game mechanics, of course. However, it seems odd that Coypheus doesn't use his extensive resources to their maximum, whereas the Inquisition uses every possible advantage available.

Ultimately, Corypheus wants to rule the world.  Not destroy it.  And red lyrium is extremely destructive.  There's really no safe way to dispose of it, and it feeds on all organic life.

[jpbreon]

1. is easily explained by the fact Corpheus wants to rule over in a orderly thadas empire who's people don't have to live in fear of war, where your origins won't ensure your potential is ignored just because you started out as a slave and that has a god that answers the prayers of the people. Darkspawn aren't exactly conductive to those goal given they poison animals, people and the very land they walk on and are highly destructive.

 

2. Its more likely him showing up and doing what you stated would have more likely only kicked off a Tevinter Civil War as while many Magisters might support him many likely would oppose him for a variety of reasons and the Archon and the Tevinter Chantry with its divine would most certainly oppose Corypheus if he openly showed himself out of either religious reasons, as a threat to their power or both. Also while Corypheus receives support from the magisters, the Inqusition also manages to draw  some support from Tevinter as well both at the top and among the magisters for various reasons in spite of being viewed with mistrust as a southern chantry organization.

 

Makes little sense, though. This is a guy who is not opposed to using red lyrium to achieve his goals, despite its potential to alter nature, but the darkspawn taint is a step too far? Not to mention he is blighted himself, which means his mere presence would do the same as any other darkspawn. It would be like being okay with biological warfare, but not anthrax.

 

Possible, for your second point. Even if such a scenario occurs, though, I cannot imagine how such a conflict could be resolved against Corypheus. His display of power, along with his red lyrium dragon, would certainly cow any opponents into submission, or simply crush them. The result is the same, although it would buy the Inquisition and nations of Thedas time to organize.

[thats1evildude]

Keep in mind a few things:

 

1) Corypheus didn't deliberately control any darkspawn in Legacy; he only called out to them unconsciously. In fact, he seemed to exert more influence with the Wardens. Judging from the Architect, the seven corrupted magisters only have a limited amount of control over their brethren.

 

2)  Corypheus thinks like the Tevinter magister he was rather than the darkspawn he is. He denies that the Seven brought darkness to the world and wants to return Tevinter to its place as the supreme ruler of the world. Naturally, his preference is to rely on his countrymen.

 

3) The darkspawn are, at best, kind of a blunt object in terms of usefulness. Yes, there are lots of them, and yes, they are quite powerful. But they're bloodthirsty savages; they're good at slaughtering people and that's basically it. You can't send a darkspawn to infiltrate an Orlesian palace or to search elven ruins for ancient artifacts.

 

It's always disappointed me how hard they hit Corypheus with the stupid stick when they made him the main villain of Inquisition. He's great in Legacy, but they made him into a moron in Inquisition. 

 

How was he "great' in Legacy? He was obviously evil, but he was also confused from a thousand years' slumber. The boss fight was a lot harder, but that was due to pathing issues more than anything.

[Arvaarad]

Before the Black City, Corypheus was a priest. Not a strategist, not a general, just a priest.

Now, granted, ancient Tevinter priests were a lot more violent than the typical priest. But their violence was directed at elven slaves, targets that posed absolutely 0 threat to them. Perhaps they had political machinations to deal with, maybe they even duelled rivals one-on-one. But they never had to lead armies.

If I was hiring for World-Toppling General and the candidate's resume said "I once led a team of mad scientists and we did a cool ritual and stuff", that wouldn't be the kind of leadership experience I'm looking for.

Age doesn't automatically confer experience. As far as we know, when Cory wakes up he's still had not a shred of practice with waging war. It's practically a miracle of Dumat that he succeeded as long as he did.

[jpbreon]

Before the Black City, Corypheus was a priest. Not a strategist, not a general, just a priest.

Now, granted, ancient Tevinter priests were a lot more violent than the typical priest. But their violence was directed at elven slaves, targets that posed absolutely 0 threat to them. Perhaps they had political machinations to deal with, maybe they even duelled rivals one-on-one. But they never had to lead armies.

If I was hiring for World-Toppling General and the candidate's resume said "I once led a team of mad scientists and we did a cool ritual and stuff", that wouldn't be the kind of leadership experience I'm looking for.

Age doesn't automatically confer experience. As far as we know, when Cory wakes up he's still had not a shred of practice with waging war. It's practically a miracle of Dumat that he succeeded as long as he did.

 

True, he was a priest. But a priest in the ancient Tevinter Imperium, especially one of Dumat, was more akin to a Grand Enchanter/Magister or perhaps Archon. You did not rise to such heights without being a cutthroat. You had to dispose of rivals, subjugate rebellious elements, guard your own resources while simultaneously taking others. This is actually lore evidence for some of Corypheus' strategies.

Perhaps this is not the same as an general, leading an army. That is why Samson was so integral to Corypheus (though why Samson, or even Cullen, would be adept at fielding military units and using battlefield tactics with Templar training is left unexplained) and also to the Inquisitor.

I agree that Corypheus wouldn't be an ideal commander, but that is what lieutenants/advisors are useful for. It still leaves unexplained why Corypheus wouldn't merely take control of the Imperium and use its existing military structure to his own ends. I'm prepared to see revealed further reasons why taking Tevinter was either not possible nor beneficial enough to justify the costs of trying, but the game did not explain it. The closest you get in a war table operation involving Maevaris Tilani. It just seems as though the Inquisition, upon learning of what Corypheus is, would seek to deny that possibility as quickly as possible given the known proclivities of many Tevinter Magisters. Fenris explains in Kirkwall the first time you go to the Gallows, and Dorian has about as much inside knowledge of the motivations and aspirations of them as you can ask for.

After speaking with Dorian in Haven, I was left with the impression that a significant portion of the Magisterium was a nudge away from open support.

[LostInReverie19]

Keep in mind a few things:

 

1) Corypheus didn't deliberately control any darkspawn in Legacy; he only called out to them unconsciously. In fact, he seemed to exert more influence with the Wardens. Judging from the Architect, the seven corrupted magisters only have a limited amount of control over their brethren.

 

2)  Corypheus thinks like the Tevinter magister he was rather than the darkspawn he is. He denies that the Seven brought darkness to the world and wants to return Tevinter to its place as the supreme ruler of the world. Naturally, his preference is to rely on his countrymen.

 

3) The darkspawn are, at best, kind of a blunt object in terms of usefulness. Yes, there are lots of them, and yes, they are quite powerful. But they're bloodthirsty savages; they're good at slaughtering people and that's basically it. You can't send a darkspawn to infiltrate an Orlesian palace or to search elven ruins for ancient artifacts.

 

 

How was he "great' in Legacy? He was obviously evil, but he was also confused from a thousand years' slumber. The boss fight was a lot harder, but that was due to pathing issues more than anything.

 

I mean that he was a great villain/opponent in Legacy. In Inquisition, he is laughable. 

[TEWR]

 

 

 Furthermore, Corypheus even coerced otherwise indifferent Carta dwarves to consume darkspawn blood and seek out Hawke and his/her family.

 

For the record (I'm still reading the whole opening post but I wanted to address this) he did this mainly through Janeka. He had Janeka under his thumb and had her go to the Carta by planting in her head that they'd be the perfect meat-force to help get the blood of the Hawke. 

 

How Janeka managed to convince them I dunno.

 

But yes I am disappointed by how Corypheus was written, which is why I write fics from time to time which makes him a competent -- and credible -- threat to the Inquisition.